[jdoc77]

I think given the other article where the 4 top execs at RIM have just been hit nearly a tenth of a BILLION dollars for lying about stock options you have to take EVERYTHING RIM says with a grain of salt.

If you will lie about things that the SEC will fine you for... you will handily lie about every other aspect of your business.

Now THAT'S logical.

oops.. did I forgot to say, "Flame On"

[BzB]

Don't want to get too off topic, but I would think the Storm would be easier for new BB users to pick up as opposed to the other way around. There are no preconceptions about how things are "supposed" to work. They can be taught much easier than someone who's been using BBs for years and has all these habits that need to be unlearned when something like the Storm radically changes them.

that's another pov and you might have a point. traditional bb users have a certain expectation based on their past usage. besides the touchscreen, the transition might be easier for them because the os is virtually the same as other bbs. the reasons i think new users might have a more difficult learning curve is because they have to learn the bb os in addition to some of the quirks/issues of the os and touchscreen. plus they're more likely to compare it to other touchscreen phones which are designed for a different crowd. horses for courses i guess

[BzB]

I concur Busy Bee. Hey look at that we agree on something. Whadda ya know : )

Can we hug now?

hey, at the end of the day we're still crack addicts. there's bound to be things we agree on...besides whether the storm is an 3p1c phail...

[kuroshio]

Guessing about the amount of returns to RIM would be just that: Guesses

We'll ignore VZ's statement that the Storm has the lowest return rate of any of their smartphones. Ignore it to keep the peace (as it's semi-off topic and people will flame the statement saying VZ is lieing). But there is something we all do know for a fact: VZ does not return every handset returned to them back to the manufacturer.

People have gotten Storms still attached to other people's #s and email boxes. Have gotten Storms pre-dusted. I know for a fact one of the LG Dare's I returned, the rep instore simply went to the back and grabbed a return to give me (he couldn't produce any boxes for an alledgedly brand new phone)

[jdoc77]

We can ignore EVERYTHING RIM says, period. They got caught with their hands in the cookie jar to the tune of almost a tenth of a billion dollars.

They have and are by default as likely to lie about every last aspect of their business operation, including and perhaps especially the Storm.

I still love the products, but I'm sorry, this bugs the shiit out of me. Lies for the public (profit) good always open the gate that leads to the cliff...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[periwinklemoon]

Guessing about the amount of returns to RIM would be just that: Guesses ...We'll ignore VZ's statement that the Storm has the lowest return rate of any of their smartphones.

I was told something that would hint otherwise about the return rate.
(So to those with flame throwers locked and loaded, bear in mind I'm only relaying what was said to me.)

The second VZW tech rep I talked to about ongoing Storm problems was a very nice guy and pretty chatty. During the course of our conversation, he said of the customers he handled personally, of the early release Storm purchases, he saw 95% of those returned.

A little back story: He mentioned he only had a couple weeks left at that job. So that might have been a factor in him being more open with what he said to me. He didn't offer details about his job situation, I didn't ask. He exhibited no hint whatsoever of animosity toward VZW, so it didn't appear that his statements stemmed from resentment or being a disgruntled about-to-be-former-employee, etc. In fact he was a really cheerful, upbeat person. His comment was not presented as some ominous pronouncement, it was more of a casual mention in passing.

Now personally I think that figure he mentioned was exaggerated as an illustration, but for all intents and purposes he made his point.

[bigman2]

I think given the other article where the 4 top execs at RIM have just been hit nearly a tenth of a BILLION dollars for lying about stock options you have to take EVERYTHING RIM says with a grain of salt.

If you will lie about things that the SEC will fine you for... you will handily lie about every other aspect of your business.

Now THAT'S logical.

oops.. did I forgot to say, "Flame On"

The top execs in a lot of companies, in case you haven't noticed, don't really DO anything. They basically get paid a lot of money to be the public figure for the company, give speeches at trade shows, and fall on their sword if necessary. They typically don't have a lot to do with the day to day operations of the company. The smaller the company the less this holds true, but do you really think one person could keep on top of everything IBM does worldwide?

If they lied about stock options, it was out of personal greed, not because they're compulsive liars.

Oh, but wait, this was supposed to be a flame... Hmmmm... Hold on a sec... Okay, here we go: You stupid ignorant inbred backwater redneck hick! WTF is wrong with you?? Don't you know that RIM is the greatest company on Earth, and that we should bow down and worship the ground it's top executives work on? I don't know how you and your sister/cousin/aunt/wife do things back in whatever backwater place that would make starving Ethiopians feel sorry for you, but here in the REAL WORLD, we treat our corporate executives like GODS... Unless they work for Microsoft, then they're even lower than you, and pond scum is way above you on the list.

There... Sorry about the confusion at the outset, forgot it was supposed to be a flame.

[bigman2]

Now personally I think that figure he mentioned was exaggerated as an illustration, but for all intents and purposes he made his point.

I also tend to think that one sales rep in one store doesn't really make for a good representative sample of worldwide Storm users. Even if we just limit it to Verizon sales in the US, or further to your State, county, or even city... Still doesn't really work, unless you live in some tiny little town where everyone knows everyone else.

[periwinklemoon]

Just to clarify, he was not a sales rep and not in a store.
He was a CS Tech rep, reached via phone.
Agree that still is not a good representative sampling, but
if what he said true (and I have no reason not to believe him
based on tone and content), it could be viewed as an indicator
of what's transpiring on a broader scale.
Or not.
Just tossing it in.

[jdoc77]

Lol. Np on not flaming. No biggie Big guy.

My point was just the juxtaposition in how Balille's word was taken as gospel on the "1,000,000" storms sold and some questioned his veracity and it turns out he's a liar and as defacto spokesman for RIM, he is likely lying about return rates etc, etc.

Its all good.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[jdoc77]

Lol. Np on not flaming. No biggie Big guy.

My point was just the juxtaposition in how Balille's word was taken as gospel on the "1,000,000" storms sold and some questioned his veracity and it turns out he's a liar and as defacto spokesman for RIM, he is likely lying about return rates etc, etc.

Its all good.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com