View Poll Results: Who do you think should take the blame?

Voters
120. You may not vote on this poll
  • RIM.

    39 32.50%
  • Verizon.

    19 15.83%
  • Both.

    60 50.00%
  • RIM and I'm leaving them forever.

    2 1.67%
05-14-09 06:39 PM
98 ... 234
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  1. Oilersboy's Avatar
    Last post. But because it's you, I'll post again.

    Brian you're missing the point. Bottom line, the Storm shouldn't have been released. It should have shipped with something like .122 or higher. If this was the case, you guys would be a lot more tolerable with the software than what you are now having gone from .74 through .141. Understand what I'm saying. If it shipped with one of these builds, you guys would be more content than with it shipping with what it did. So all of what we're discussing should be irrelevant. But of course it's not, and I won't say why, again. But we all know.

    Has it taken a while to get to a good stable build? Yes. The device is very complicated. But you must remeber, .141 was built months ago. So you're saying all these months, but it's just taken a while to get to the public. There are stable 4.7 builds. And they were built over a month ago. Why Verizon does not have these builds is because of the way they choose to conduct testing. Again, that has nothing to do with RIM.
    Man if only you all knew what really goes on.
    verizon made a huge mistake by releasing storm too early on nov 2008 and should have waited till jan or feb of this year so that OS will probably will be more stable for public use
    05-13-09 09:32 AM
  2. Yesterdays Shoveler's Avatar
    @yesterdays shoveler: You dont believe the manfacturer has little or no say into when their product goes?? RIM is still angry at AT&T for REFUSING to sell the Bold when RIM thought it was ready to go. Instead holding the device back until THEY(the carrier) were ready to launch it.
    Obviously I don't know how this works and I'm not a programmer, I'm just gathering bits and pieces from what you and others have stated. In a situation like this, I do believe RIM should have been able to hold back the release of the Storm if they knew it would be at least five months before a build was ready. If RIM was contractually obligated to deliver the product by a certain date and the product they delivered was not ready for market by that date, then shame on RIM for not being able to gauge their development time lines appropriately and not suffering the consequences of not meeting a contract deadline. Instead, they honored a contract by dumping their crap on VZW and the end user. They dug their own grave if that's the scenario that played out. And of course, everyone knows that crap rolls down hill, so shame on VZW for letting it continue to roll to the end user.

    What I do know is that in my day to day job, knowing when a patch is coming out for other business and enterprise grade applications is very valuable and not that uncommon. It allows me to better plan how to get my end users around that issue before a patch is released. Had I known that would be still installing leaked builds half way into the factory warranty and replacing devices because the screen gets flogged with dust, I would have probably returned it, but that's not how it played out. Instead, we were told to just wait a little longer, it's going to get so much better and we will be really excited about the device.

    I know you're not in favor of this, but some deadlines that are announced to the end user would be great and would go a long way to easing some of tension. If RIM is confident they have a build ready, VZW needs to know which build that is. There's a lot of risk to doing that, both to RIM and VZW, but at least it would be a more open approach and we wouldn't have to lean on vague snippets from folks who are worried about their NDA.

    Your point about the Bold just makes it look like RIM has no problem dumping a product that's not ready on the carriers.
    05-13-09 10:09 AM
  3. patches152's Avatar
    The bottom line is it shouldn't have been released when it was. That would have forced the manufacturer to build a more stable code quickly. Again, with AT&T and the Bold being the prime example. But we can't really get into what-if's, because your carrier cared less about your satisfaction and more about making the Holiday money.
    if they're capable of writing the code, they're capable of writing the code. idk how the device being released or not changes that. maybe its my oh so feeble mind, but logic is beating upon the inside of my brow to disagree with this statement. can you clarify as to why one scenario would show the release of a stable OS faster than another?
    05-13-09 11:08 AM
  4. patches152's Avatar
    verizon made a huge mistake by releasing storm too early on nov 2008 and should have waited till jan or feb of this year so that OS will probably will be more stable for public use
    every single OS we've seen has had either

    1) serious flaws impacting the function of the device its self
    2) serious flaws impacting the use of paid services from the carrier

    ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THE SOFTWARE WOULD HAVE EVER GOTTEN APPROVED IF THEY WAITED! WE STILL WOUDLN'T HAVE THIS PHONE TO THIS DAY!
    05-13-09 11:12 AM
  5. patches152's Avatar
    Your point about the Bold just makes it look like RIM has no problem dumping a product that's not ready on the carriers.
    RIM has no idea what works for the carriers and what doesn't. thats why .113 and .122 had MMS issues...they don't test carrier services. they test their services and features/apps...that is why RIM can't be left alone to release software as a separate entity from the carrier. the service providers would get boned and stuff wouldn't work.
    05-13-09 11:14 AM
  6. cereal killer's Avatar
    *Nobodys figured out a "stable OS" will never be achieved with 4.7

    Pretty amazing.

    Everybody is arguing in circles. Pointing fingers here there and everywhere. Plenty of blame to go around but the brunt of it lies with VZW.


    *before the fanboys get all up in arms this is not hate speech*

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-13-09 11:29 AM
  7. bmfan's Avatar
    i blame global warming...
    05-13-09 11:34 AM
  8. patches152's Avatar
    did i already blame the bush administration? i forget...
    05-13-09 11:38 AM
  9. Pholey22's Avatar
    You and others may say what you want. The bottom line is Verizon sholdn't have released it. If they would have put their bottom line before your satisfaction, we wouldn't be in this situation. Just look at AT&T. They said they didnt care if it took RIM a year to get the Bold right, they weren't releasing it until they felt it was alright to use on their network. They didn't put their bottom line first. They also sat through all of the complaints of millions of customers wondering(demanding) the device be released. yet they held of until the device was sufficiently ready for use on their Network. Verizion could have done the same.
    If this would have been the case, maybe RIM would have been forced to put more Dev hours and people in the mix to get out a stable OS so they could make some money. But no that didn't happen. Instead the carrier you all love and tout around as the best in the country, sold you a good device with shotty software. But no you and other don't blame them for that. It's all RIM fault. LOL. Get real. RIM didn't sell you the device.

    Also I find it absolutely hilarious that some of you people with ZERO experience programming or writing code simplify the process and act as if it's easy to build code for such a complex device. Too funny. I would suggest you all get together and write the code yourselves and send it to the RIM devs so they can implement it ASAP, since they have no clue and it's oh so easy.

    The bottom line is it shouldn't have been released when it was. That would have forced the manufacturer to build a more stable code quickly. Again, with AT&T and the Bold being the prime example. But we can't really get into what-if's, because your carrier cared less about your satisfaction and more about making the Holiday money.


    @yesterdays shoveler: You dont believe the manfacturer has little or no say into when their product goes?? RIM is still angry at AT&T for REFUSING to sell the Bold when RIM thought it was ready to go. Instead holding the device back until THEY(the carrier) were ready to launch it.
    Well, you are showing your lack of knowledge sir. The dealership for Ford is a separate entity. Dealerships are owned by private people selling a product (car) from a manufacturer (Ford). Same case here, VZW a separate company purchased a product (Storm) from a manufacturer (RIM). Sure, you can take the car to the dealership to have work done on it...if the car is still under warranty...FORD foots the bill and/or corrects any RECALLS. Consider this a Storm RECALL. To say this analogy is wrong shows you clearly don't understand the argument.

    As we have ALL said, we realize this device was pushed out too early, no one is denying this. But to keep using that as an excuse for a device that has been out since Nov is ridiculous. I seriously doubt RIM told VZW they still wouldn't have a suitable OS this many months later...I highly doubt it. It obvious you are an AT&T and RIM fanboy (your option). I too love RIM's products at least up till now.

    As far as writing programs, why are all the other manufacturers able to pump out stable products that work the way the should right out of the box. Apple, HTC, Nokia, Motorola, etc...seem to be able to write solid software. Also, if memory serves me correct, you said this would be the best RIM device yet...go back and look at your threads from the late summer.

    Anyway, I enjoy the debate but completely disagree with you that RIM is not to blame and hasn't dropped the ball on this one. AGAIN, sure VZW is to blame for pushing it out too early but it's RIM's job to better the device. If they are working diligently to do so, I just don't see it. I'm quite certain that if RIM said, "our OS is going to be half azz for another year" VZW would have backed off.

    CX, don't take it so personal...unless you are the one writing code. LOL
    05-13-09 11:39 AM
  10. Pholey22's Avatar
    you guys are way to sensitive !

    who cares who's fault it is, if it doesn't work take it back, sell it, smash it, give it to an ex girlfriend and move on !
    Give it to an ex GF, now thats an idea. LOL
    05-13-09 11:42 AM
  11. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    Well, you are showing your lack of knowledge sir. The dealership for Ford is a separate entity. Dealerships are owned by private people selling a product (car) from a manufacturer (Ford). Same case here, VZW a separate company purchased a product (Storm) from a manufacturer (RIM). Sure, you can take the car to the dealership to have work done on it...if the car is still under warranty...FORD foots the bill and/or corrects any RECALLS. Consider this a Storm RECALL. To say this analogy is wrong shows you clearly don't understand the argument.

    As we have ALL said, we realize this device was pushed out too early, no one is denying this. But to keep using that as an excuse for a device that has been out since Nov is ridiculous. I seriously doubt RIM told VZW they still wouldn't have a suitable OS this many months later...I highly doubt it. It obvious you are an AT&T and RIM fanboy (your option). I too love RIM's products at least up till now.

    As far as writing programs, why are all the other manufacturers able to pump out stable products that work the way the should right out of the box. Apple, HTC, Nokia, Motorola, etc...seem to be able to write solid software. Also, if memory serves me correct, you said this would be the best RIM device yet...go back and look at your threads from the late summer.

    Anyway, I enjoy the debate but completely disagree with you that RIM is not to blame and hasn't dropped the ball on this one. AGAIN, sure VZW is to blame for pushing it out too early but it's RIM's job to better the device. If they are working diligently to do so, I just don't see it. I'm quite certain that if RIM said, "our OS is going to be half azz for another year" VZW would have backed off.

    CX, don't take it so personal...unless you are the one writing code. LOL

    I wasn't going to post in here again, but that last comment made lol. It's cool bro, I totally understand where you're coming from. And while I would love to go into further detail about specifics, I can't. It would raise some flags.. I agree, there is blame to go around on both sides. Just gets me peeved when it turns into all RIM bashing, is all. Nothing taken personal... I'm not writing it...
    05-13-09 11:45 AM
  12. Pholey22's Avatar
    you forgot one thing Verizon signed contract with RIM and RIM suppiled hardware to them but RIM does not make verizon software at all. verizon is just trying to make compatabile with storm by getting the right OS version to run smoothly. it is same with microsoft and they do not make hardware but just software and signed contract with most hardware pc companies to install microsoft windows.
    Nope, you are wrong...RIM writes the OS for the Storm. You are referring to dumb phones.
    05-13-09 11:46 AM
  13. Pholey22's Avatar
    I wasn't going to post in here again, but that last comment made lol. It's cool bro, I totally understand where you're coming from. And while I would love to go into further detail about specifics, I can't. It would raise some flags.. I agree, there is blame to go around on both sides. Just gets me peeved when it turns into all RIM bashing, is all. Nothing taken personal... I'm not writing it...
    Like I said, great debate and you have had several valid points. AND I AM VERY GLAD YOU ARE NOT WRITING THE SOFTWARE OR WE WOULD ALL STONE YOU MOD OR NOT!!! LOL

    The purpose of this thread/poll was to get feedback on what others felt. For many threads I saw VZW getting hammered and not one mention of RIM's role in all of this. To be honest, both sides need to figure a way to nail down the OS so we don't have to have these debates (though it was kinda fun, and I feel much better getting it off my chest).

    You're still the man CX and your opinions and knowledge are always welcome!

    BTW, the poll is showing just that...BOTH are to blame.
    05-13-09 11:56 AM
  14. patches152's Avatar
    I wasn't going to post in here again, but that last comment made lol. It's cool bro, I totally understand where you're coming from. And while I would love to go into further detail about specifics, I can't. It would raise some flags.. I agree, there is blame to go around on both sides. Just gets me peeved when it turns into all RIM bashing, is all. Nothing taken personal... I'm not writing it...
    now that you're a liar care to comment on what the difference between release and no release code dev is?
    05-13-09 12:03 PM
  15. Pholey22's Avatar
    Anymore votes??
    05-14-09 01:41 PM
  16. patches152's Avatar
    Ck Got Banned!!!!
    05-14-09 02:11 PM
  17. papped's Avatar
    Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme
    You and others may say what you want. The bottom line is Verizon sholdn't have released it. If they would have put their bottom line before your satisfaction, we wouldn't be in this situation. Just look at AT&T. They said they didnt care if it took RIM a year to get the Bold right, they weren't releasing it until they felt it was alright to use on their network.
    True enough. Where's the option to blame the customers too? How many people bitched and moaned about the Bold being delayed over and over again?

    Customers love to complain that something isn't just "released", then cry when it's released too early...
    05-14-09 02:14 PM
  18. Pholey22's Avatar
    Ck Got Banned!!!!
    Who?? And why??
    05-14-09 02:17 PM
  19. patches152's Avatar
    we're not allowed to talk about it....

    CK = cereal killer...

    i think CX=CK anyway... so maybe "they" worked out their mental issues and one killed the other? left brain/right brain stuff, ya know?
    05-14-09 02:18 PM
  20. Pholey22's Avatar
    we're not allowed to talk about it....

    CK = cereal killer...

    i think CX=CK anyway... so maybe "they" worked out their mental issues and one killed the other? left brain/right brain stuff, ya know?

    My bad just figured that out..CK. LOL Pour one for my homey!
    Last edited by Pholey22; 05-14-09 at 02:21 PM.
    05-14-09 02:19 PM
  21. BzB's Avatar
    As we have ALL said, we realize this device was pushed out too early, no one is denying this. But to keep using that as an excuse for a device that has been out since Nov is ridiculous. I seriously doubt RIM told VZW they still wouldn't have a suitable OS this many months later...I highly doubt it.
    Anyway, I enjoy the debate but completely disagree with you that RIM is not to blame and hasn't dropped the ball on this one. AGAIN, sure VZW is to blame for pushing it out too early but it's RIM's job to better the device.
    you're on fire with those two statements. same things i've been thinking/saying.

    i'd take it a bit further though. no disrespect to people like crucial xtreme and radio guinea , but i think it's bs for people who work at or with rim to say it's vzw's fault the storm has been underachieving and buggy and we haven't received a good official os yet.

    even though the leaks we see and the os versions vzw is testing might be months old, the fact still remains that those builds have glaring, and in some cases, very serious problems that made it out the door from rim. it's not vzw or the user's fault rim's os builds have problems. we just find the problems and experience the issues that were released for testing.

    i have experience in application development, coding, programming, user acceptance testing, etc. i don't work for rim and i'm not affiliated with them, but i have to say there must be issues with project and resource allocation/management at rim just based on what we've seen from .65 to .141. for a company their size with the resources they have we simply shouldn't be seeing some of these issues. i'm not saying they should drop everything and focus on the storm, but i am saying that it's likely they're trying to do a lot of things and as result have not put the amount of effort into the storm that they probably should.

    and another thing (since i'm on a roll ) and i'm speaking solely for myself on this one, but i don't really feel like we get much in terms of juicy concrete info from the rim insiders and people 'in the know' who post here. no disrespect to them and the likes, cause a lot of people hang on their every word and take what they say as gospel, but a lot of the good questions they can't answer anyway. we end up guessing or gleaning a lot of what we get from other sources. it seems like the most benefit we get from the insiders is when they debunk rumors. i know nda's are at play, as well as people's jobs, but it's laughable to me how people salivate over the crumbs we get tossed here and there. it's almost like a tease game. if they can't tell us the nitty gritty then why even bother. yeah, so that's it and i said it. sht list me or whatever.
    05-14-09 03:58 PM
  22. patches152's Avatar
    and another thing (since i'm on a roll ) and i'm speaking solely for myself on this one, but i don't really feel like we get much in terms of juicy concrete info from the rim insiders and people 'in the know' who post here. no disrespect to them and the likes, cause a lot of people hang on their every word and take what they say as gospel, but a lot of the good questions they can't answer anyway. we end up guessing or gleaning a lot of what we get from other sources. it seems like the most benefit we get from the insiders is when they debunk rumors. i know nda's are at play, as well as people's jobs, but it's laughable to me how people salivate over the crumbs we get tossed here and there. it's almost like a tease game. if they can't tell us the nitty gritty then why even bother. yeah, so that's it and i said it. sht list me or whatever.
    i made this point earlier in the "what do leaks cost" thread.
    05-14-09 04:13 PM
  23. Pholey22's Avatar
    i have experience in application development, coding, programming, user acceptance testing, etc. i don't work for rim and i'm not affiliated with them, but i have to say there must be issues with project and resource allocation/management at rim just based on what we've seen from .65 to .141. for a company their size with the resources they have we simply shouldn't be seeing some of these issues. i'm not saying they should drop everything and focus on the storm, but i am saying that it's likely they're trying to do a lot of things and as result have not put the amount of effort into the storm that they probably should.
    Point you made is exactly what I don't get!! It's not like we are putting a crew on the moon for the first time. There are TONS of programmers out there who I bet could get this thing rolling sweet! I don't think RIM is giving ITS ALL on the Storm. Perhaps its the price point on the device that it isn't getting the attention it needs or maybe RIM is too busy sponsoring every major sporting event known to man. Quit sponsoring and get to programming some good stuff already!!
    05-14-09 06:39 PM
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