[Five]

Where do we suspect these "leaked" betas are coming from? I have to wonder how much of this is controlled chaos.

[howardb]

I'd bet from Verizon employees. Make that former Verizon employees if they get caught. But to them I say thankyou.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[rab05]

They could be from Verizon, but I doubt it. I'm sure there's companies that RIM does business with that they allow to access beta/unreleased OS builds.

Eh, they could even come from RIM themselves... What better way to get 1000's of free beta testers than "leak" an OS and watch what happens?

[httrdd]

I hear that they come from Verizon and the person leaking them gets a certain percentage from the forums to promote more interest!

[Sith_Apprentice]

They come from BlackBerry Universe/Partner Zone. Those RIM has special agreements with to beta test their products. These people leak to some, who leak to others, who put it up on torrents and rapidshare, then they post threads like "who has it"

[TheMisses]

That's the case. I'd bet my life on it.

[Sith_Apprentice]

Unfortunately its dead on, and those doing the leaking are risking their careers and of course their company's relationship with RIM in general.

[bbstormz]

Don't ask... Just be greatful that we are able to test out these leaks

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[HarlyFan]

Don't ask... Just be greatful that we are able to test out these leaks

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

It would be much better if they actualy monitor these sites to hear and see the problems,so they can react quicker to the bugs with better fixes!

[moe-blackberry]

I hear that they come from Verizon and the person leaking them gets a certain percentage from the forums to promote more interest!

I don't know but it sure generates interest and gets lots of people talking.

Go Steelers!!

[drumzalicious]

wouldnt it make sense for rim to somehow put a tag within each leak that they send out so they at least know what company its from? i mean witih that they could at least narrow i down to who is leaking their stuff if they really dont want it leaked that bad

[Danger_Mouse]

wouldnt it make sense for rim to somehow put a tag within each leak that they send out so they at least know what company its from? i mean witih that they could at least narrow i down to who is leaking their stuff if they really dont want it leaked that bad

RIM are probably happy to have their OS's leaked since you officially act as beta testers.

Then all they have to do is scan the forums for unfortunate souls who have installed it in the vain hope that their woes are resolved.

When these people complain about the problem RIM can then see if they can replicate the issue and resolve it for the official release.

I suspect it is RIM releasing (read leaking) the code, after all I can't see how it causes them any negative effects.

[vtbert3]

wouldnt it make sense for rim to somehow put a tag within each leak that they send out so they at least know what company its from? i mean witih that they could at least narrow i down to who is leaking their stuff if they really dont want it leaked that bad

Exactly... I think RIM doesn't really mind the leaks, because if they did then they could put a stop to it by tagging the software. I think it's so funny how the people that are the "official beta testers" on here think they are gods and tell us it takes years of experiance and a CS degree to be a tester. It's also funny how they make comments to hint that they are already testing the next version as soon as the current version drops, but that they can't talk about etc because of NDAs... It's just a power trip to them to withhold the betas as long as possible over our heads and watch us beg and drool. If it were a true NDA situation and they were really as loyal to their NDAs as they say, they wouldn't blab about unreleased version at all, but they do, go figure.

[whtciv2k]

Aliens.

[Mattym2121]

I sometimes wonder if RIM or Verizon does it on purpose to get beta testers to find any/all bugs

[Sith_Apprentice]

It is very amusing to watch people in these conversations that have ZERO idea what goes on behind closed doors at RIM. The code is NOT leaked by RIM, it is given to certain individuals who then leak it and break their NDA agreements. I have suggested to several people in the past methods of avoiding this once and for all, but it would cause too many customers to leave for other phones. Keep in mind if these beta's do corrupt your phone or "brick" it, the carriers have zero responsibility to replace your device. Unfortunately most of them will, because they are too lazy to check what happened. Hopefully all of this will be resolved when OTA loading from the carrier comes into play, and you have no option to install from other sources.

[BrianW2007]

Man you people are just plain ignorant. To those who said "Don't worry about who leaks them, just be grateful they did" You my friend are spot on.

And to the jerks comment about being a beta tester, referring to CX; You my friend seem the one to have a ego trip. CX asked, because he knows how to shoot a gun, do you expect him to get a job at the CIA? (In some context of that matter) People don't blow up your job, even though many off the street could probably do it. RIM doesn't leak these, it comes from somebody in Verizon more than likely testing it. and again, you're right when you say these people could loose their jobs. RIM/Verizon don't use us for beta testing, thats ridiculous. Do you know how much money that could cost them? If they KNOWINGLY used us for testers, and how many newbies on this would brick their phones, causing returns, INS claims etc. Guys, who cares how and when they're leaked. Be happy they did, shut your mouths! End of story

[vtbert3]

Man you people are just plain ignorant. To those who said "Don't worry about who leaks them, just be grateful they did" You my friend are spot on.

And to the jerks comment about being a beta tester, referring to CX; You my friend seem the one to have a ego trip. CX asked, because he knows how to shoot a gun, do you expect him to get a job at the CIA? (In some context of that matter) People don't blow up your job, even though many off the street could probably do it. RIM doesn't leak these, it comes from somebody in Verizon more than likely testing it. and again, you're right when you say these people could loose their jobs. RIM/Verizon don't use us for beta testing, thats ridiculous. Do you know how much money that could cost them? If they KNOWINGLY used us for testers, and how many newbies on this would brick their phones, causing returns, INS claims etc. Guys, who cares how and when they're leaked. Be happy they did, shut your mouths! End of story

Well my comment is accurate. If the beta testers were so loyal to their NDAs, why do they comment on here about unreleased versions??? If RIM or Verizon wanted to stop the leaks they could, but they don't care enough to do it. If RIM wanted to stop beta testers from talking about unreleased versions on boards (if it were a violation of an NDA) they could do that too by simply filing a john doe lawsuit and subpoenaing CrackBerry and other boards for the IP addresses of the claimed beta testers on here and find their ISP (or proxy IP and add another subpoena if a US proxy to get the IP) and then subpoena the ISP (if US) and find the identity of the tester and cut them off and sue for damages for breach of NDA, but they don't.

And just to add, I don't have anything against CX personally at all, just the apparent hypocrisy about adhering to NDAs that the beta testers have in general. I am sure CX dedicates a lot of time to beta testing software, as professional beta testers do. Obviously he provides a lot of great information to the public. However, I just don't think a beta tester for unreleased BB OSs needs a CS degree to do it, just a lot of time and an ability to follow directions for recording errors/anomalies.

[thebigpants27]

Well my comment is accurate. If the beta testers were so loyal to their NDAs, why do they comment on here about unreleased versions??? If RIM or Verizon wanted to stop the leaks they could, but they don't care enough to do it. If RIM wanted to stop beta testers from talking about unreleased versions on boards they could do that too by simply filing a john doe lawsuit and subpoenaing CrackBerry and other boards for the IP addresses of the claimed beta testers on here and find their ISP (or proxy IP and add another subpoena if a US proxy to get the IP) and then subpoena the ISP (if US) and find the identity of the tester and cut them off and sue for damages for breach of NDA, but they don't.

You sir, are very right. The truth is that companies like Apple, RIM, and Verizon are corporate powerhouses with agressive legal departments. We all know how quickly apple can shut down iClone operations, well, do you honestly think RIM and/or Verizon has a crippled legal counsel? They don't, and I assure you... RIM corporate/Verizon have had board meeting in regards to our so-called free beta testing and basically, the 1,000 -5,000 people that may try a beta are in such a minority that it has no real impact on Verizon or RIM, especially considering not all the people on here are Americans and theses "free beta testers" are spread out through various carriers, Bell, Rogers, Verizon, etc. The truth is, it's more beneficial for them to simply take measures internally and observe user feedback then it is to file lawsuits based on NDA breaches.

[podawk]

You sir, are very right. The truth is that companies like Apple, RIM, and Verizon are corporate powerhouses with agressive legal departments. We all know how quickly apple can shut down iClone operations, well, do you honestly think RIM and/or Verizon has a crippled legal counsel? They don't, and I assure you... RIM corporate/Verizon have had board meeting in regards to our so-called free beta testing and basically, the 1,000 -5,000 people that may try a beta are in such a minority that it has no real impact on Verizon or RIM, especially considering not all the people on here are Americans and theses "free beta testers" are spread out through various carriers, Bell, Rogers, Verizon, etc. The truth is, it's more beneficial for them to simply take measures internally and observe user feedback then it is to file lawsuits based on NDA breaches.

I think some of you are missing the point. To be a beta tester of ANY value you need to provide accurate and controlled feed back. How many people on this forum do you see doing that? The only ones I see are ones doing the beta testing. Second, Its not acurate to call these leaks Beta's. To use the term beta implies that the version is not complete. It is. .90 is done. end of story. It is not made offical by the carriers yet, but to RIM it is done. Third even if people on the forum are reporting valid problems how many have been fixed by RIM in a newer release? Do you really think RIM is just now working on .91? Your theory only holds water if RIM is still working on a build close to the one leaked. They maybe working on .100 and fixing problem in .95 that we have not seen.

I think we need to get over ourselves. we are not all special enough to be a RIM beta tester. I'm just glad we get the leaks from time to time.

P.S. This was not directed only at "thebigpants27" thats just the only quote I hade time to grab and place in my post.

[DonNguyen]

this has been covered so many times

http://forums.crackberry.com/f132/ho...s-leak-129305/

[Five]

this has been covered so many times

http://forums.crackberry.com/f132/ho...s-leak-129305/

Saw that. Moved on. This thread is not about that. It's about real experiences and the ever changing dynamic of the BB culture with regard to leaked software.

Please do not try to stifle the conversation in this thread with your static views.

[Danger_Mouse]

Man you people are just plain ignorant. To those who said "Don't worry about who leaks them, just be grateful they did" You my friend are spot on.

And to the jerks comment about being a beta tester, referring to CX; You my friend seem the one to have a ego trip. CX asked, because he knows how to shoot a gun, do you expect him to get a job at the CIA? (In some context of that matter) People don't blow up your job, even though many off the street could probably do it. RIM doesn't leak these, it comes from somebody in Verizon more than likely testing it. and again, you're right when you say these people could loose their jobs. RIM/Verizon don't use us for beta testing, thats ridiculous. Do you know how much money that could cost them? If they KNOWINGLY used us for testers, and how many newbies on this would brick their phones, causing returns, INS claims etc. Guys, who cares how and when they're leaked. Be happy they did, shut your mouths! End of story

What's with the name calling? Why not act like a adult and debate?

RIM would be no different the MS/Apple in leaked products. Do you think that nobody in RIM has never leaked a OS?

This isn't ignorance but just being realistic. The second part of this is, how can be sure who leaked the OS when you don't know where it came from? It's quite clear these questions cannot be answered thus making that a moot point.

Why would using people who seek out these beta's and test them and report on them a forum be ridiculous? You will be telling me next that RIM have no idea of this forum and what happens on here with the people running leaked beta's! Vtbert has the right idea, RIM would have this place shut down quicker than you can blink if there were indeed concerned about the leaked beta's.

Also the next point you make about insurance claims is rather silly. The people who go to the lengths of finding the leaked beta's and installing them are normally capable enough to also downgrade the OS on their phone. It's not like these beta versions are installed by people with no idea and even if the phone is bricked do you think RIM will really care about a odd phone being returned, it's not like they will have thousands of returns is it?

[revslg]

I don't think that it really matters who leaks the OS. I am just thankful that they do.
And if some here on the forums have access to higher OS's great. Though they cannot tell us about them now, I have seen that when the leaks come out they are ready to help us with the problems that they saw when they tested it.
I think that RIM and VZ care about the leaks, but they also realize that these leaks keep us interested in our devices so they let it go. It really isn't hurting them anyway.
To believe that they are using us a testers is ludicrous. As has been said before, the info posted on here is too general to be much help. It may point to an area that needs to be addressed, but the information many times is way to vague to do much more than that. Besides, we know they have testers right. Do you really think that these testers are so inept as to miss the problems that we experience?
Anyhow, if you have leaked an OS... THANKS!

[Danger_Mouse]

Maybe it is ludicrous but it has been done many times. Windows 7 anyone? Is that too ludicrous? MS used to allow the leaked beta's but has taken it one step further and allowed people to download the beta because doing it that way has allowed them a great deal of control in the testing process. If they hadn't of released it, they knew it would end up in the wild anyway.

You misunderstand testing if you think that they can test in the same way as the public having the OS on their phones, the testers are not inept but it's simply not possible to test everything. There are so many combinations possible with the software on the OS, it only makes sense to allow the OS to get out and then see if there is a pattern to known problems with willing testers.