08-06-09 06:56 PM
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  1. polskasila's Avatar
    While I agree it's good for customers to be aware of companies policies which may be in their benefit and they might not otherwise ever know about, I think it's getting way out of hand and abused.

    Just browse the storm and tour sections and you'll find countless people "omg i want the tour it looks awesome! How can i get it without paying?" "what are the right words to use to scare them into giving you the tour for free?" etc.

    It's clear the majority of the people are just using it to get the latest and greatest and not have to pay anything, the majority of the people really aren't having over-welming problems with their current phone (mostly the storm). But are using the information to abuse the policy and get what they want. If you're legitimately having serious issues where you've exchanged countless phones and meet the base standards for multifru, fine. It's your privilege that was put into place to keep you happy and make things right. But when you just want to keep up with the newest trendy phones and you bs the companies into thinking you're having all sorts of problems, or threaten them to terminate your contract early if you don't get what you want (especially when you have no interest in actually doing so) it's ridiculous.

    The amount of money that it's costing VZW, and RIM i'm sure is incredible. The shipping of returning your phone and finding a replacement (atleast 3 times each), the cost of having an employee overview each phone sent back and the cost of getting it back on the market. The cost of giving away new phones which they overwise could make upwards of a couple hundred dollars on etc.

    I'm just getting tired of people looking for an easy way out, and tired of people giving them **** poor suggestions.
    07-19-09 04:38 PM
  2. Dr.Sadistic's Avatar
    I completely agree 100%. Its so sad to watch people lie and cheat their way into their phones. Imagine a world where VZW stopped caring if your phone didn't work... Cause that's what's coming if you don't knock it off. And keep in mind, this is a public forum... How many of those VZW employees your ripping off are members of this forum...
    07-19-09 04:45 PM
  3. polskasila's Avatar
    IMO something should be implemented here, wether it's a deletion of the threads/posts or a timed ban if it's pretty clear that the person is abusing it. If mods will lock a second thread about BBM5 then they should be watching this as well. Maybe even just make a post in the FAQ or something and then just remove all threads/posts about it. If you're having that many problems more than likely you will be made aware of the service by VZW. How many people in the past BEFORE the tour came out cried about wanting to exchange the phone? None, they all sucked it up and kept exchanging it or dealt with the speed etc. Very few complained about wanting to downgrade to a curve or something. So it's pretty obvious what the hype is about. And it's wrong.
    07-19-09 04:50 PM
  4. psyonixdj's Avatar
    In all reality, the multiexchange program isn't one that's in place to get you a new and different phone, it's in place to get you a brand new (not refurbished) model of the same phone. It's rare that VZW will replace a unit with a different one. The guidelines spell out that it should be replaced with the SAME model, not a different one. People have this misconception that manufacturer defects with refurbs entitle them to different devices, when in only the rarest circumstances should that even be considered. People who call in expecting THAT to be the resolution are going to find a difficult time achieving it.
    07-19-09 05:34 PM
  5. summerfish's Avatar
    In all reality, the multiexchange program isn't one that's in place to get you a new and different phone, it's in place to get you a brand new (not refurbished) model of the same phone. It's rare that VZW will replace a unit with a different one. The guidelines spell out that it should be replaced with the SAME model, not a different one. People have this misconception that manufacturer defects with refurbs entitle them to different devices, when in only the rarest circumstances should that even be considered. People who call in expecting THAT to be the resolution are going to find a difficult time achieving it.
    I used to work for Verizon as a customer service rep/technician/inventory handler, in-store. If you have had 2 replacements and going on #3 within a 90 day period, they will replace with a "Like" phone. PER CORPORATE POLICIES. They try not to put you back into the same phone because apparently you are having trouble with it (90% of the time User Error), so they put you into a different phone purposely. Which in this case, now the Tour is the like phone to the Storm. Exact features, except not touch screen. It's like how the Voyager was for a long time. There was nothing else that similar to it, so unfortunately, they would give you the same phone, but brand new.

    And to answer the OP, yes, it costs Verizon over $125 per phone to refurbish it, and to give someone a new phone, it really does costs the retail value of the phone. Just because Verizon sells the phones for $200, that doesn't mean they get it cheap. They do pay full retail price $500+
    Last edited by summerfish; 07-19-09 at 05:49 PM.
    07-19-09 05:46 PM
  6. psyonixdj's Avatar
    I used to work for Verizon as a customer service rep/technician/inventory handler, in-store. If you have had 2 replacements and going on #3 within a 90 day period, they will replace with a "Like" phone. PER CORPORATE POLICIES. They try not to put you back into the same phone because apparently you are having trouble with it (90% of the time User Error), so they put you into a different phone purposely. Which in this case, now the Tour is the like phone to the Storm. Exact features, except not touch screen. It's like how the Voyager was for a long time. There was nothing else that similar to it, so unfortunately, they would give you the same phone, but brand new.

    And to answer the OP, yes, it costs Verizon over $125 per phone to refurbish it, and to give someone a new phone, it really does costs the retail value of the phone. Just because Verizon sells the phones for $200, that doesn't mean they get it cheap. They do pay full retail price $500+
    I'm a coordinator for Tech Support Level 1 (read: DSC) in the West Area, and I specialize in PDAs/Advanced Devices, and given that most issues with those devices have to go through us for any sort of advanced support, coupled with the fact that I have 3 and a half years worth of tenure here, 2 and a half being IN the DSC/TSS, and also the fact that I'm quoting the guidlines directly from my resources we use when addressing multi-exchanges, I think I have a pretty good grasp of what our "CORPORATE POLICIES" are.
    The process in the store may have been different, but that's part of where the misconception is rooted in. I PROMISE, if you call us w/ the third request within 3 months, we aren't looking to get you a different phone, we will accomidate you with a BRAND NEW ONE (over the Certified Like New Replacement). Anything beyond that is an exception- a rare one at that.
    07-19-09 06:00 PM
  7. suby723's Avatar
    I used to work for Verizon as a customer service rep/technician/inventory handler, in-store. If you have had 2 replacements and going on #3 within a 90 day period, they will replace with a "Like" phone. PER CORPORATE POLICIES. They try not to put you back into the same phone because apparently you are having trouble with it (90% of the time User Error), so they put you into a different phone purposely. Which in this case, now the Tour is the like phone to the Storm. Exact features, except not touch screen. It's like how the Voyager was for a long time. There was nothing else that similar to it, so unfortunately, they would give you the same phone, but brand new.

    And to answer the OP, yes, it costs Verizon over $125 per phone to refurbish it, and to give someone a new phone, it really does costs the retail value of the phone. Just because Verizon sells the phones for $200, that doesn't mean they get it cheap. They do pay full retail price $500+
    Its not 2 replacements its 3 and you would have to go through those 3 replacements within 90 days.
    07-19-09 06:08 PM
  8. suby723's Avatar
    I'm a coordinator for Tech Support Level 1 (read: DSC) in the West Area, and I specialize in PDAs/Advanced Devices, and given that most issues with those devices have to go through us for any sort of advanced support, coupled with the fact that I have 3 and a half years worth of tenure here, 2 and a half being IN the DSC/TSS, and also the fact that I'm quoting the guidlines directly from my resources we use when addressing multi-exchanges, I think I have a pretty good grasp of what our "CORPORATE POLICIES" are.
    The process in the store may have been different, but that's part of where the misconception is rooted in. I PROMISE, if you call us w/ the third request within 3 months, we aren't looking to get you a different phone, we will accomidate you with a BRAND NEW ONE (over the Certified Like New Replacement). Anything beyond that is an exception- a rare one at that.

    I was offered the Tour but declined and was sent a 5th storm. haha Its ok I think/hope this one is a winner.
    07-19-09 06:10 PM
  9. txaggie84's Avatar
    These companies, VZW, RIM, APPLE, etc, have reserves set aside just for this. Surley they have overstated them, and if not shame on them. Its called business....
    07-19-09 06:31 PM
  10. polskasila's Avatar
    I'm a coordinator for Tech Support Level 1 (read: DSC) in the West Area, and I specialize in PDAs/Advanced Devices, and given that most issues with those devices have to go through us for any sort of advanced support, coupled with the fact that I have 3 and a half years worth of tenure here, 2 and a half being IN the DSC/TSS, and also the fact that I'm quoting the guidlines directly from my resources we use when addressing multi-exchanges, I think I have a pretty good grasp of what our "CORPORATE POLICIES" are.
    The process in the store may have been different, but that's part of where the misconception is rooted in. I PROMISE, if you call us w/ the third request within 3 months, we aren't looking to get you a different phone, we will accomidate you with a BRAND NEW ONE (over the Certified Like New Replacement). Anything beyond that is an exception- a rare one at that.
    If you speak with Blackberry Support under the vzw customer service the guidlines you presented are not the ones they are taught to follow. They read it out to me in very good detail how you have the opportunity to get a completely different phone of comparable retail value. They didn't even suggest I get a brand new storm, they went over the different phones I could switch to. Perhaps things have changed and you weren't updated? I never deal with the store themselves unless I need a tech to look at the phone. All my dealings have been with vzw customer care/blackberry support and three different reps have offered me to switch to a different phone after calling them about fixing my storm. They all read off the same description for this multifru thing. It's not an exception, its policy at this point.
    07-20-09 12:44 AM
  11. polskasila's Avatar
    These companies, VZW, RIM, APPLE, etc, have reserves set aside just for this. Surley they have overstated them, and if not shame on them. Its called business....
    shame on them for understating how many people will scam them? yeap, shame on them! It's business! It's their job to expect to pay for people to scam them and it's their problem! I don't care if they had 4 million "reserves set aside for this." Did jesus christ himself magically create them? Did Obama donate money out of his new stimulus package so that RIM could create them? Wether or not they're "reserves" (whatever you mean by that), the company still had to manufacture them. The direct costs, the indirect costs, and the overhead for each and every phone manufactured is still the same. The money had to come from some where, they weren't made for free out of scrap parts.
    07-20-09 12:48 AM
  12. rican408's Avatar
    so what about in my case? ive never had 3 replacements in 90 days... but i have had 10 replacements since december.... mostly due to hardware failures/issues.... i can deal with and "fix" most of the software issues. but once again i have an issue with hardware.... the click not working as good as before, end button is hard to press... ive had new replacements and refurbs... the only reason i dont call and ask for a tour RIGHT NOW is because i wonder if i would like it less.....

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-20-09 01:04 AM
  13. oakindustries's Avatar
    Don't hate the players, hate the game lol. I'm grateful that I was able to swap my Storm for the Tour and I have no regrets. They should have worked harder to make the Storm work as advertised. Releasing a sub par phone and hyping the cr@p out of it is bad business. At least VZW has a procedure in place that allows people with legitimate claims to have their phones replaced. Thank you VZW :-)

    Besides, the cell phone industry has been fleecing the customers anyway for years. The customer gets subsidized phone pricing by signing a 2yr contract. When that contract is up does your price plan drop in price because the phone is no longer subsidized? It sure doesn't.
    07-20-09 01:12 AM
  14. Damn_Smooth's Avatar
    While I agree it's good for customers to be aware of companies policies which may be in their benefit and they might not otherwise ever know about, I think it's getting way out of hand and abused.

    Just browse the storm and tour sections and you'll find countless people "omg i want the tour it looks awesome! How can i get it without paying?" "what are the right words to use to scare them into giving you the tour for free?" etc.

    It's clear the majority of the people are just using it to get the latest and greatest and not have to pay anything, the majority of the people really aren't having over-welming problems with their current phone (mostly the storm). But are using the information to abuse the policy and get what they want. If you're legitimately having serious issues where you've exchanged countless phones and meet the base standards for multifru, fine. It's your privilege that was put into place to keep you happy and make things right. But when you just want to keep up with the newest trendy phones and you bs the companies into thinking you're having all sorts of problems, or threaten them to terminate your contract early if you don't get what you want (especially when you have no interest in actually doing so) it's ridiculous.

    The amount of money that it's costing VZW, and RIM i'm sure is incredible. The shipping of returning your phone and finding a replacement (atleast 3 times each), the cost of having an employee overview each phone sent back and the cost of getting it back on the market. The cost of giving away new phones which they overwise could make upwards of a couple hundred dollars on etc.

    I'm just getting tired of people looking for an easy way out, and tired of people giving them **** poor suggestions.
    I'm sorry, I disagree. I want these whiners to get a different phone so I (we) only have to deal with the half that come back as trolls. Pointing out the fact that it was user error and the fact that the phone they switched to has plenty of issues of its own is way better to deal with than 20 of the same questions on the same page. Just my opinion.
    07-20-09 01:17 AM
  15. dparks69's Avatar
    Yeah cause trying to get something from a company that charges different prices for text plans when it costs them the same wether you send 1 or a million messages isn't ripping the customer off either. Especially when messages are piggybacking on the voice signal that you are already paying to use anyway. People may not be in the right by trying to get new phones for free but cell providers aren't the most honest either ya know. I personally wouldn't do this but I'm not gonna get bent out of shape if somebody wants to try and maybe even succeed at it. And I won't even go into my accounts with customer service lol. Just my 2 cents. Rant on.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-20-09 01:19 AM
  16. Polychrome's Avatar
    It depends on your supervisor, the customer, and the circumstances. Beyond the simple requirements, both the rep and their supervisor have to believe the Multifru is warranted.

    I've honestly heard it used both ways, whether the rep and sup think the customer is not...um...talented enough to use the phone, or whether they believe a new device is warranted because the customer has been through a great deal and spends a lot of money. There are other things the reps and sups keep in mind though. You're not going to get a multi-fru if you're a new customer with a single line on a 450 minute plan who's only been around 3 months total and is asking for credits left and right. And if you do manage to weasel a large favor like that out of a rep in such a situation, be warned that they will be heavily remarking your account, usually about your temperament. Other reps will close up faster than you can say "data plan".

    On the other hand, depending on the situation, there may be a case in which the requirements for multi-fru are thrown completely out the window, but the examples are very few and far between, far moreso than a multi-fru. For example, I had a couple of customers who were sold Blackberry storms, neither of which were getting data. They were told by some silly rep to keep them beyond the WFG, not realizing that the customers were in an extended service area, roaming on a carrier that doesn't have data service. They would literally have to drive for hours just to get an e-mail. The customer asked to downgrade to a non-data device. In this case, the exchange for a different device is more than warranted. It wouldn't make sense from a business perspective to keep them on data plans for 2 years if they can't use it, and this was partially our mistake in the first place.
    07-20-09 01:58 AM
  17. Archangel00195's Avatar
    Don't hate the players, hate the game lol. I'm grateful that I was able to swap my Storm for the Tour and I have no regrets. They should have worked harder to make the Storm work as advertised. Releasing a sub par phone and hyping the cr@p out of it is bad business. At least VZW has a procedure in place that allows people with legitimate claims to have their phones replaced. Thank you VZW :-)
    This is the one thing I hate that people post. Allow me to help you out


    (do you want the nice fly out 3d stuff?)





    Please tell me what was advertised that the phone doesn't do?

    Besides, the cell phone industry has been fleecing the customers anyway for years. The customer gets subsidized phone pricing by signing a 2yr contract. When that contract is up does your price plan drop in price because the phone is no longer subsidized? It sure doesn't.
    Really? You're going to use "they wronged me so I'll wrong them?". *sighs* Normally I'd be right there with you. In this case you're saying the phone does work as advertised. You just got jealous of the new phone.
    07-20-09 02:24 AM
  18. Archangel00195's Avatar
    Yeah cause trying to get something from a company that charges different prices for text plans when it costs them the same wether you send 1 or a million messages isn't ripping the customer off either. Especially when messages are piggybacking on the voice signal that you are already paying to use anyway. People may not be in the right by trying to get new phones for free but cell providers aren't the most honest either ya know. I personally wouldn't do this but I'm not gonna get bent out of shape if somebody wants to try and maybe even succeed at it. And I won't even go into my accounts with customer service lol. Just my 2 cents. Rant on.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    You have reason to your logic...so I'll just say this is America and texting is a service. America+service=money from your pocket.
    07-20-09 02:26 AM
  19. debsbb's Avatar
    While I agree it's good for customers to be aware of companies policies which may be in their benefit and they might not otherwise ever know about, I think it's getting way out of hand and abused.
    I couldn't agree more. Before I saw this thread I read a post from someone who was just about to play this dirty game and I finally had enough and told him so. I don't normally "blast" someone on a forum board, but it was this post that finally broke the camel's back. People that play by the rules literally wind up paying for those that don't which irritates the heck out of me.

    If you made a wrong choice as we all do at times, either be a man (woman) and accept you made a mistake and then either go buy a new one legitimately or suck up until your contract is up and get a new one then. Don't expect the world to pay for your mistake.
    07-20-09 03:08 AM
  20. debsbb's Avatar
    These companies, VZW, RIM, APPLE, etc, have reserves set aside just for this. Surley they have overstated them, and if not shame on them. Its called business....
    Are you saying because they have these reserves it's ok for people to lie and cheat to get what they want? I'm sorry I can NOT agree with one bit. Calling it "it's business" is a p----poor attitude to have. Nobody should have to pay for another person's mistake and with an attitude like this we ALL pay for those who are not adult enough to admit a mistake and move on in a legal and/or moral way to correct it.
    07-20-09 03:15 AM
  21. dfairlite's Avatar
    I couldn't agree more. Before I saw this thread I read a post from someone who was just about to play this dirty game and I finally had enough and told him so. I don't normally "blast" someone on a forum board, but it was this post that finally broke the camel's back. People that play by the rules literally wind up paying for those that don't which irritates the heck out of me.

    If you made a wrong choice as we all do at times, either be a man (woman) and accept you made a mistake and then either go buy a new one legitimately or suck up until your contract is up and get a new one then. Don't expect the world to pay for your mistake.
    I completely agree, why you would go through this headache over about a month in the first place to get a new LOCKED phone from them is beyond me, i would just sell the storm on ebay and pay the 100 dollar difference to buy a new tour.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-20-09 04:42 AM
  22. polskasila's Avatar
    Don't have the player hate the game? ...

    Good to see we have some honest mature people here. The begining of this thread started to make me nervous with all these narrow minded thieves. Yes thieves, they're stealing from the companies and it's fraud. But hey lets all band together and teach them how to get away with it! Don't worry the mods won't care, as long as all BBM5 threads across the board are merged into one.
    07-20-09 10:11 AM
  23. mdude85's Avatar
    I guess I agree, but the phone manufacturers and the carriers are still making a lot of profit on the phones, even if they are paying money to service and return thousands of models.
    07-20-09 10:24 AM
  24. howarmat's Avatar
    I guess I agree, but the phone manufacturers and the carriers are still making a lot of profit on the phones, even if they are paying money to service and return thousands of models.
    they make little to no money on the phones, its the monthly services where they make the profit
    07-20-09 10:30 AM
  25. mdude85's Avatar
    they make little to no money on the phones, its the monthly services where they make the profit
    I said the phone manufacturers AND the carriers. The phone manufacturers make money on the phones, the carriers make money on the subscriptions. Since the subscriptions are tied to the sale of the phones, they are one and the same.
    07-20-09 10:32 AM
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