[extremeconcepts]

C'mon, can you guys really sit here and bash such a high-end technological company for making statements about buggy software and having problems. It's a way of dumbing down the reality that we live in. Unfortunately with people doing so many DIFFERENT things to their phone in such short periods of time, you can only go so far without running into problems. It's just like viruses for computers, sometimes they just happen, even without a disgruntled employee behind it writing the code. Every day we complain about a problem here or a problem there. When is it that people finally stop complaining and find a way to fix it? Ask someone that's not complaining about their install what they did differently. Take it upon yourself to fix it instead of blaming everyone else(Which I can assume to be thousands of workers at RIM that spent millions of hours trying to make this a reality for us) We sit here so disgusted with a comment such as the one from their CEO but in reality, look at the lifestyles we move towards every day of our lives.... lazier, simpler, more technologically advanced, annoyed at every imperfection. Why can't we take things for what they're worth any more and say, "what a great product!?" And if you don't feel that way, don't write in this forum, don't respond to this post, and move on about your day. I truly am thankful for technological advances. Now, needless to say, if they're so many bugs that it can't run right... Then by all means, return it, let the 9500 forums close down and just admit defeat.

[jh4for5]

Interesting. Remember there are two sides to every story. Before you start making generalized statements, take a look at where you are. Not everyone is doing that. Some people have real issues and need help or are limited by things that their device/carrier/phone just won't do. The Storm was released as the iPhone killer and I honestly beleive it IS better then the iPhone but people are allowed to be upset at the limitations of things like wifi or flash video that other, inferior devices can do.

[Stang68]

This should be moved to the rant forum.

[bigtimelew]

i'm not even a complainer, but when i pay 500 dollars for a phone and it has problems you want me to fix them ??

[extremeconcepts]

I appreciate your input. I'm not so much speaking to the people with problems that want to fix them... But those that go about doing so by being upset and pissed off at RIM for example are who I'm aimed towards. I see the forums as a place to share and talk about things, not to be pissed off. IMO that would be like me going to a Mercedes Benz forum and telling them how much I hate their cars. Admittedly so, their are a lot of people especially this morning talking about the BS comments that the CEO of RIM made. Take it for face value folks, they're not going to stop trying to fix the bugs... it just takes time.

[extremeconcepts]

i'm not even a complainer, but when i pay 500 dollars for a phone and it has problems you want me to fix them ??

I paid $55,000 for a car that has issues here and there. Does that mean that they shouldn't exist purely based on the monetary value of a product?

[kirrill]

You must not work for a corporation where u are forced to follow artificial deadlines set forth by the promise of a product's
Release rather than its development cycle. Its not that people aren't allowed to make mistakes that most here gripe about � its that so many can be avoided with proper testing and QA. Not to mention realistic deadlines.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[jh4for5]

I think people are pretty frustrated b/c, like lew said, they paid a lot of money for their phones. We all have to admit that RIM and Verizon pushed this release to get it out before the holidays and things were overlooked. People are more upset b/c they are used to a certain kind of quality from RIM b/c most models of BB have always been prefect when they hit the shelves. If Mercedes was coming out w/ a new car that had never been seen before (say a flying car) and it was going to be sold at a premium price - I would expect it to fly when I bought it. Of course I would be upset w/ Mercedes - anyone would. This is human nature. Jim Balsillie's comments were however - pretty on target. High expectations (like that quality that RIM is known for) make for harsh customer reviews when a product hits the market and isn't ready. Personally - I think RIM should've held on to the Storm until May or June to get everything worked out but really - I'm happy w/ my device nonetheless.

[mdude85]

Take it upon yourself to fix it instead of blaming everyone else(Which I can assume to be thousands of workers at RIM that spent millions of hours trying to make this a reality for us)

Oh! That makes perfect sense! I pay $200 for a phone that doesn't work properly and your response is that I should just fix it myself. How about RIM pays me the big $$$ instead of me paying them? I don't really see that happening, do you???

The truth is, yes, adopting a new technology always yields prolems. THAT is what the CEO should have said. Instead he basically said, "In this age we live in, there are going to be a lot of bugs whenever we release software." Um, no, that doesn't have to be the case. One or two bugs is fine. Nobody is perfect and no amount of lab testing can replicate a wide release. The problems people are experiencing with the Storm far eclipse one or two bugs.

The most frustrating issue here is that RIM and Verizon pushed this phone out permaturely for the sole purpose of earning a quick buck. They didn't push the phone because there was an overwhelming demand for it. They didn't push the phone because there was a gaping hole in their product line and they would have gone under without filling it. They pushed it prematurely out of selfishness and that's not fair to the consumer at all.

[SJSnelling]

It is a tough topic...we have three Storms and, for the most part, are quite pleased with them. Yes, we wish they didn't have bugs and yes, we hope for what we paid they'll continue to serve our needs for as long as competing units.

As to quality control at the time of release, I work part-time for a company that builds custom IG units. When a new type of spacer was introduced to the market there were many early failures. A major difference between some custom IG unit manufacturers and the one I work for is the owner of our company would not make/sell any units until she had them tested at the labs. She lost sales volume while doing so yet she also did not participate in introducing a new concept that quickly gained a bad reputation. Ultimately, the spacer manufacturer got their s**t together and addressed the problems. Our company then joined in producing and selling units which were going to meet the market's expectations.

Now plug Verizon in as our company. They had a chance to wait until more bugs were worked out or hit the market and withstand the possible onslaught. Did they win or lose?

[hanano17]

Interesting. Remember there are two sides to every story. Before you start making generalized statements, take a look at where you are. Not everyone is doing that. Some people have real issues and need help or are limited by things that their device/carrier/phone just won't do. The Storm was released as the iPhone killer and I honestly beleive it IS better then the iPhone but people are allowed to be upset at the limitations of things like wifi or flash video that other, inferior devices can do.

The Storm was not released as an Iphone killer, it was labeled that by the media because it is a touchscreen smart phone. But I agree the Storm is a better than the Iphone, or rather it will be in due time. There are also limitations on the Iphone as well, no removable battery, no removable memory, no video recording, no mms, etc. Each have their own faults.

Whatever that CEO says, he isn't the person making the phone, he's just a face that is trying to make excuses. Don't hold him as a full represenation of RIM or VZW. The problem, imo, comes down to time. They didn't want to waste anymore time in releasing it when they should have. Whatever the case though, I enjoy my Storm and I look forward to it getting better.

BTW, can someone delete or combind those threads aboubt the WSJ article about the CEO, theres one in every forum...kind of annoying to see the same two guys trying to push the article on people so we can hate RIM and the Storm. Kind of sad.

[zazzified]

I think you need to consider where you are. I might search here for fixes to problems here and there and comment in the posts but if some random person on the street asked what I think about my phone, I'd tell them I love it. Because I do. I just don't spend my time professing my love for it here.

[jh4for5]

LOL - they probably have iphones.

[hanano17]

I think you need to consider where you are. I might search here for fixes to problems here and there and comment in the posts but if some random person on the street asked what I think about my phone, I'd tell them I love it. Because I do. I just don't spend my time professing my love for it here.

I agree. A guy in my class asked how I liked the Storm. He didn't like his GF's iphone(nor did she, she returned it for a bold) and he wants to stay with VZW. I gave my honest subjective opinion, and said I loved it. I did tell him it has a few issues, but they would probably be worked out. He didn't seem disappointed when he played with my Storm.

[mdude85]

They didn't want to waste anymore time in releasing it when they should have.

Time spent perfecting normal operation of the device is by no means time wasted. There were a few techies anticipating Storm with bated breath, but by and large, the general consumer would have been perfectly happy waiting a few months for a working device right off the bat.

[zazzified]

I agree. A guy in my class asked how I liked the Storm. He didn't like his GF's iphone(nor did she, she returned it for a bold) and he wants to stay with VZW. I gave my honest subjective opinion, and said I loved it. I did tell him it has a few issues, but they would probably be worked out. He didn't seem disappointed when he played with my Storm.

Yep, I had a waiter ask me about it and said I really liked it. Just because I don't preface "how do I..." with "I love the Storm" doesn't mean I think that the flaws make it a bad piece of technology. I know some people have had major problems and feel that way but I really don't think that's the case for the majority of users here.

[HD123]

i see some people comparing phones to pc's, or even cars. I also have a $100,000 car, that is known for having its fair share of problems..... HOWEVER i still believe that if I pay $1100 for a phone, it should ''work''.. and I shouldn't be checking crackberry.com every hour to see if a new OS is out. Maybe I feel this way because when I spend even less with other phone manufacturers, the devices just ''work''.

It just looks like RIM cant deliver it all.

First the older devices, especially the curve had extremely low build quality, but they atleast worked. Now with the Bold and Storm, the build quality is much better and the phones actually look like how much you pay for them, however 101 people are having 101 different problems with them.

And in terms of high speed data, I dont even see a point in having/ paying so much to have a 3G BB anyways since due to the lousy browser and more importantly the fact that all data has to go through rims servers makes it impossible to have data as fast as on a NOKIA or HTC etc. On top of it BB's dont support video calling and live streaming TV, both standard options available since the beginning when 3G came out, 4 years ago.

[hanano17]

Yep, I had a waiter ask me about it and said I really liked it. Just because I don't preface "how do I..." with "I love the Storm" doesn't mean I think that the flaws make it a bad piece of technology. I know some people have had major problems and feel that way but I really don't think that's the case for the majority of users here.

Agreed. I'm sorry for those who have Storm's with real issues, but everytime some of them posts about it, they blow it up and make it seem like the end of the world and makes even more people jump up and be like, "oh, this product isn't perfect or up to my standards either!" The truth is as you say, most of us do not have serious complaints and love our Storms, but you can't tell most of the time because we don't feel the need to share or post about it every day.

When I said time played a factor, I didn't mean from a consumer stand point. I meant from a producer stand point. I'm sure RIM/VZW wanted it out ASAP in time for a holiday, and I'd also bet the present economy weighed in. I'd want my product out in time for a holiday for people to spend on before they blow the money they don't have this year on the holidays, instead of waiting for the new year and them to realize they have even less money now because of the economy.

[zazzified]

Re: dependency... all other features aside, I am very dependent on my cell phone because I have no land line. A lot of people are that way now and that number is only going to grow. You should see me when I need to call VZW from a different line. Hahaha.

[jh4for5]

You should see me when I need to call VZW from a different line. Hahaha.

LOL - me too. I'm screwed!

[cmgeek]

I only complain when someone else has done it better, therefore it's proven that it can be done. If someone has a great idea, no matter how great the technology behind it is, it has to work. When it doesn't work and it's not being fixed quickly, I think we have the right to complain.

[TheMisses]

C'mon, can you guys really sit here and bash such a high-end technological company for making statements about buggy software and having problems. It's a way of dumbing down the reality that we live in. Unfortunately with people doing so many DIFFERENT things to their phone in such short periods of time, you can only go so far without running into problems. It's just like viruses for computers, sometimes they just happen, even without a disgruntled employee behind it writing the code. Every day we complain about a problem here or a problem there. When is it that people finally stop complaining and find a way to fix it? Ask someone that's not complaining about their install what they did differently. Take it upon yourself to fix it instead of blaming everyone else(Which I can assume to be thousands of workers at RIM that spent millions of hours trying to make this a reality for us) We sit here so disgusted with a comment such as the one from their CEO but in reality, look at the lifestyles we move towards every day of our lives.... lazier, simpler, more technologically advanced, annoyed at every imperfection. Why can't we take things for what they're worth any more and say, "what a great product!?" And if you don't feel that way, don't write in this forum, don't respond to this post, and move on about your day. I truly am thankful for technological advances. Now, needless to say, if they're so many bugs that it can't run right... Then by all means, return it, let the 9500 forums close down and just admit defeat.

Oi!! What's this? Hahaha
Look... its buggy alright. Its not a shamefull thing at all. But marketingwise and saleswise it IS a shamefull thing that this device came into the hands of consumers, buggy as the OS is. Lets forget about the HW issues that have and still are, bugging tens of thousands people around the world. ON TOP of that come the buggy software issues. And that is pretty awfull for the company. So what do you do in that situation when you are in their shoes? You can't say: well, there are some issues and we were wrong releasing the product so early on to the masses..... Because if you do, the snakes out there are going to bite you like crazy and THEN strangle you, eat you up and shi*t you out!!
And you cannot say that the product is a huuuuuge succes, cause then you'll be laughed out of the company by your own workers and partners.
So, you say something that is something in the middle and has been approved by a team of top noch lawyers. That way you still look like a dumb *** to everyone in the world BUT you get to keep your job for now and do not expand the damage further.

Which is good of course. But what would be even better is to learn from this mistake. But no... they won't. They got away with it right? So... whaha!! We're gonna do it again in the near future!! Yessss!!

[mullrat]

It was a pure business decision. You weigh cost/profit, risk reward. This is business and in business you have to not only deal with numbers but also in this case the state of the consumer. They weren't ready to release the device before the holidays but released it anyway. They will have to live with that decision and move forward. That is what the CEO was saying. THey met expectations, they realize the risk of releasing a product that was not totally finished, and they'll take the consequences that come with that decision. To a big business you are not a person, but a point in a demographic of people. They released the Storm based on the realization that a small percentage of people would be totally dissatisfied and return the thing, and a big majority would keep it either totally satisfied or unsatisfied but knowing that it is a software issue would wait until it is fixed. They looked at the numbers and made the call. Pros are they released the product on time and probably saved 20-30% of sales of the device. The cons are that it is considered by experts and lay people as an unreliable device. That poor reputaiton could bite them later.

It's the free market.

[no.name]

I�m working for vodafone since a couple of years. I can tell you, no phone is perfect. But without complaints and forums like this, how should RIM, Nokia, S-E and so on fix the bugs? Sometimes, the wide range of experienced user reports bugs much more efficiened than a paid QM.

It�s not wrong to complaine, the way to do it is important. In Germany we have a flying word for it: Konstruktive Kritik. It means smthg like, improve by critic.

I will post my bugs on and on and on. Only to try to make things better.

[HD123]

It was a pure business decision. You weigh cost/profit, risk reward. This is business and in business you have to not only deal with numbers but also in this case the state of the consumer.

Not a very good business decision. They also made the same mistake with the Bold.

If they continue like this, How long can they honestly think they can grow with just the BB ''Hype'', especially considering how high the prices of their handsets are compared to other manufacturers with high end devices.

I have bought atleast 15 Nokias ranging from $200 - $1000, atleast another 10 from other manufacturers, and can honestly say I have never had a single issue that I can think of with my devices. Never even ended up with a faulty one that I had to return, or send in for repair.

However, with the Bb's, its a whole other ballgame, for myself and anyone who I know that owns one.

Myself and everyone I know that owns a BB in the rest of the world, except for my friends and family in Canada and the states now have a second phone. First we were not willing to give up our phones for 8800's or curves due to the lack of their features and now, headaches with the Bold and Storm.

its gonna come back and bite them if they dont smarten up. North America will still belong to Rim because of the lack of spending and severe lack of devices in the mobile market. However they will severely suffer in their planned growth in the rest of the world.