[Sith_Apprentice]

Honestly I think if people are knowledgeable and willing to run the new OSes and test things for RIM then let them. Either let them leak or allow more people to register as OS beta testers.

OR... let RIM conduct their business however they want, seems to be working pretty well dont you think? Beta testing is very limited for business reasons, and i dont see it changing any time soon. If anything, because of these leaks, it will become MORE restricted.

[howardb]

OR... let RIM conduct their business however they want, seems to be working pretty well dont you think? Beta testing is very limited for business reasons, and i dont see it changing any time soon. If anything, because of these leaks, it will become MORE restricted.

Or RIM could have stuck to their guns and not pushed it out as early as they did. RIM has always had a reputation of very stable OSes but with this device things came out at a very beta stage. This played out and showed in the initial reviews of the device.

If you're going to make it more restrictive you need to do it up front where it really matters. Had that been done there would be a lot less people clamoring for these updates.

Don't get me wrong. I own stock in RIM personally but an open door policy on getting people to assist with OSes isn't a bad thing. It works quite well with Linux. Now if RIM would only provide changelogs! Heck even if they were only for official releases!

[markdental]

It was explained previously that it was not RIM that decided to release the storm early. It was Verizon that at the last minute downgraded the OS and still decided to release the storm. It ends up looking bad on RIM.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[SidIrish]

Actually, what I'd like to see in this whole process is a read only thread where those that have access to the builds can keep an open discussion between each other and let us all watch what is going on with the process. If something is interesting enough to warrant, then we onlookers can start up a thread about said topic.

This would help soothe our curiosities and let you guys have a more coherent and ongoing conversation without you having to repeat every 8th post that this release is not official and not available to you.

SidIrish

[howardb]

Verizon told RIM they wanted it released but its RIM's product to release and ultimately their decision. You may make a customer a bit unhappy but some diplomatic talking on both ends can help to allow both companies a bit of reputation.

[markdental]

That actually sounds great.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[BecerraC]

Ok question..... Sith stated that the camera is a bit temperamental in .9 and I am a big fan of the camera so should I stay with .86 or would you recommend the update?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Or RIM could have stuck to their guns and not pushed it out as early as they did. RIM has always had a reputation of very stable OSes but with this device things came out at a very beta stage. This played out and showed in the initial reviews of the device.

If you're going to make it more restrictive you need to do it up front where it really matters. Had that been done there would be a lot less people clamoring for these updates.

Don't get me wrong. I own stock in RIM personally but an open door policy on getting people to assist with OSes isn't a bad thing. It works quite well with Linux. Now if RIM would only provide changelogs! Heck even if they were only for official releases!

First off, RIM didn't release the device, Verizon did. The only reason it released so early is that Verizon wanted to make the holiday shopping season money, and could care less about their customers.

An open door policy for betas? What do you know about beta testing? Do you think you just install the OS, and go on about your regular business? And what ever bugs happen to show up, you just say hey here it is? Not even close. There is so much more to testing than you think. And to be quite honest it's disrespectful to those who do this for a living, that forum goers think, they can do something ppl have worked at for years and went to school for years to do, at the drop of a hat. 95% of the information provided by members about these betas is totally useless. There is a reason there are professional beta testers. Theres a reason you have to have experience, and a computer science degree. Along with a ton of other experience. I surely wouldn't go up to SWAT team member and tell him I could do his job because I like to shoot guns. A dose of reality is needed here.

[REC7IFY]

First off, RIM didn't release the device, Verizon did. The only reason it released so early is that Verizon wanted to make the holiday shopping season money, and could care less about their customers.

An open door policy for betas? What do you know about beta testing? Do you think you just install the OS, and go on about your regular business? And what ever bugs happen to show up, you just say hey here it is? Not even close. There is so much more to testing than you think. And to be quite honest it's disrespectful to those who do this for a living, that forum goers think, they can do something ppl have worked at for years and went to school for years to do, at the drop of a hat. 95% of the information provided by members about these betas is totally useless. There is a reason there are professional beta testers. Theres a reason you have to have experience, and a computer science degree. Along with a ton of other experience. I surely wouldn't go up to SWAT team member and tell him I could do his job because I like to shoot guns. A dose of reality is needed here.

QFT! Massive Truth.

[Valace2]

Hey CX quick question. I have been installing the leaks from my laptop that runs XP, I have a desktop also that runs Vista. I have uninstalled all the previous OS's for the Storm off of it and restarted. Each time I go to install the new leak it only shows .65 and .75. I don't get it. Is it Vista? I am really confused. Not that it matters really, just gotta load up the laptop. Was just wondering if you might know why. Thanks

[BecerraC]

Haha true cruc. I completely agree. I wouldn't even know where to begin to write one line of code. I'm sure I would bring everyone device to a screeching halt. I respect all of you and know my place. I will keep testing and reporting what I find. I am happy and content with that. Keep up the good work cruc, sith and all you others.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[reddragon7660]

CX I noticed you said you installed .9x again on the first page so i Beg the question is the release your testing an improvement or just minor changes in code?

[anon(3850)]

Just wondering would it be a good idea to use CrackUtil to wipe the whole device before a 4.7.0.90 isntall or does it matter or can it hurt the device?

[anon(3850)]

anyone know?

[vtbert3]

First off, RIM didn't release the device, Verizon did. The only reason it released so early is that Verizon wanted to make the holiday shopping season money, and could care less about their customers.

An open door policy for betas? What do you know about beta testing? Do you think you just install the OS, and go on about your regular business? And what ever bugs happen to show up, you just say hey here it is? Not even close. There is so much more to testing than you think. And to be quite honest it's disrespectful to those who do this for a living, that forum goers think, they can do something ppl have worked at for years and went to school for years to do, at the drop of a hat. 95% of the information provided by members about these betas is totally useless. There is a reason there are professional beta testers. Theres a reason you have to have experience, and a computer science degree. Along with a ton of other experience. I surely wouldn't go up to SWAT team member and tell him I could do his job because I like to shoot guns. A dose of reality is needed here.

You need a CS degree to be a beta tester? You just have to be able to follow the company/programmers process/system for testing and reporting bugs. It's not like you are writing the code yourself for RIM. Some 10 year old kid can go download Windows 7 right now and be a beta tester for MS.

[patches152]

i wish there was a way to block or ignore posts within a thread from people who have no productive things to say. this thread is supposed to be about a leak soon, isn't it? why arent the moderators deleting conversations and posts that are off topic like the other threads?

[howardb]

First off, RIM didn't release the device, Verizon did. The only reason it released so early is that Verizon wanted to make the holiday shopping season money, and could care less about their customers.

An open door policy for betas? What do you know about beta testing? Do you think you just install the OS, and go on about your regular business? And what ever bugs happen to show up, you just say hey here it is? Not even close. There is so much more to testing than you think. And to be quite honest it's disrespectful to those who do this for a living, that forum goers think, they can do something ppl have worked at for years and went to school for years to do, at the drop of a hat. 95% of the information provided by members about these betas is totally useless. There is a reason there are professional beta testers. Theres a reason you have to have experience, and a computer science degree. Along with a ton of other experience. I surely wouldn't go up to SWAT team member and tell him I could do his job because I like to shoot guns. A dose of reality is needed here.

I have two computer engineering degrees. Computer software and computer hardware. I also have an MBA with technology management option. In order for the phone to be released it would take agreement from both Verizon and RIM. Verizon didn't design it so it would be hard for them to do it without acceptance from RIM. Granted there was a lot of money at stake for RIM so they were probably inclined to listen but they did have the option of saying no.

I will totally agree with you that 90% of what is said here about bugs is useless but I'll also state that there is no level of testing that you can do at RIM that will 100% cover the usage cases that you can get by letting more people beta test things as well.

Honestly I think that automated regression testing would be something that would be even more beneficial. It would catch things like not being able to reboot reliably, and not being able to save a picture, and not being able to do BT audio while watching a video. Then also as bugs are found by humans automated regression tests can be augmented to ensure that things that have been found in the past remain intact.

You can get mad at me all you want and say I have no clue all you want but I do have the qualifications to speak on the topic and have seen case studies and worked with companies who have done very well with this.

[howardb]

You need a CS degree to be a beta tester? You just have to be able to follow the company/programmers process/system for testing and reporting bugs. It's not like you are writing the code yourself for RIM. Some 10 year old kid can go download Windows 7 right now and be a beta tester for MS.

I will state in CX's defense that the job of beta testing does require being able to intelligently communicate the issues back to developers. This task (as well as properly identifying what is causing some of the more esoteric bugs) is much easier to do if you have an underlying understanding of the architecture of the OS. An understanding of these types of things is often greatly augmented by the training required to get a CS or computer software engineering degree.

[madphone]

Getting back on topic;

when are we going to see the next OS already??











Fact is I am joking, but out there someone is seriously wondering that same thing.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Getting back on topic;

when are we going to see the next OS already??











Fact is I am joking, but out there someone is seriously wondering that same thing.

I mean, just think about it. If you all, who aren't "supposed" to have .90 have it. Imagine what those who "are" supposed to have things got. But as to when it will leak, if it even does, who knows.

[Valace2]

I mean, just think about it. If you all, who aren't "supposed" to have .90 have it. Imagine what those who "are" supposed to have things got. But as to when it will leak, if it even does, who knows.

Thats not that hard to grasp, early on in the thread you mention Re-installing .90. So its anybodies guess as to what the newest OS out there is.

[BlackStorm72]

This is just my own thought of mind, I make it up and see if it will work.

Just my idea, it appears maybe they will do all these betas up to 4.7.1 and take bits and pieces of the best codes from the OS leaks + current officals and use them to create 4.7.1.

Sounds too simple or just too cheesy probably but it feels that every OS has a new issue but a new strength. For example (My phone, not sure about everyone elses) in .86, the Camera was swift and saves easy. In .75 i could see Voice Notes (now in .90 i can too again..), in .90 its fast speed with the Portrait Keyboard.

I don't know really in general what they really do with OS betas as I am not so "experienced" in most of this. I just use the phone and grab leaks here and there. Perhaps what i said could be true? I don't know.

But it seems to me, just in my views that every single OS has a different strength and a new weakness, maybe they will bring the strong codes together from all the leaked codes and make a 4.7.1.

Just my thought.

[losvaldez]

This thread brought new hope with the Vets posting again. .90 is a big step forward and thanks to the vets for posting again. I know reading some of these posts asking the same question is annoying but we're all here for the same reason. I'm content with each leak that comes out wether good or bad. Problems=progress.

[JRSCCivic98]

This is just my own thought of mind, I make it up and see if it will work.

Just my idea, it appears maybe they will do all these betas up to 4.7.1 and take bits and pieces of the best codes from the OS leaks + current officals and use them to create 4.7.1.

Sounds too simple or just too cheesy probably but it feels that every OS has a new issue but a new strength. For example (My phone, not sure about everyone elses) in .86, the Camera was swift and saves easy. In .75 i could see Voice Notes (now in .90 i can too again..), in .90 its fast speed with the Portrait Keyboard.

I don't know really in general what they really do with OS betas as I am not so "experienced" in most of this. I just use the phone and grab leaks here and there. Perhaps what i said could be true? I don't know.

But it seems to me, just in my views that every single OS has a different strength and a new weakness, maybe they will bring the strong codes together from all the leaked codes and make a 4.7.1.

Just my thought.

I have a feeling that 4.7.1.x won't be out until probably the next Blackberry model to come out. I would say, expect 4.7.0.2xx incarnations of the current OS revisions. Take a look at the Bold's current OS version... already in the 200 something numbers.

[BlackStorm72]

I have a feeling that 4.7.1.x won't be out until probably the next Blackberry model to come out. I would say, expect 4.7.0.2xx incarnations of the current OS revisions. Take a look at the Bold's current OS version... already in the 200 something numbers.

You have a point.
Well if it doesn't really occur say it will be 4.7.0.2xx and they combine these together then with what I said in my post earlier. Seem like something?