06-11-10 02:36 PM
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  1. i7guy's Avatar
    Nope. The first time I tried to get Verizon about 7 years ago they wanted $900 from me so I went with NTelos.2 years later I tried again with better credit. And yes, he says his credit is shot.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    And one wonders why AT&T gets dinged for their network?
    06-11-10 10:22 AM
  2. aboutDbuzz's Avatar
    But as an individual subscriber (and pro geek), I want the fastest and best tech, or at least comparable to the best. Knowing that RIM could implement that tech but doesn't is what's killing me.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I feel your pain brother. WOW, you did all that on your phone? Gotta love BB. Wonder if an iPhone user can type up such a long message from theirs. (OK, I am kidding.)
    06-11-10 10:30 AM
  3. Joel S.'s Avatar
    I'm with everyone who is saying that it's the hardware that severely needs to be updated. I love my 9550 and I've been with RIM and a RIM supporter for years, but when I look at other manufacturers releasing phones with hardware far superior to RIM, it makes me seriously tempted to switch to those other companies.

    The majority of the problems with the storm and other RIM devices are because of the archaic hardware under the hood.
    I agree with the jist of this. It is rather meh when you see a new BB show up that's identical spec wise to the previous model, with just a few minor hardware tweaks, like the trackpad, wifi, and more app memory. They need to differentiate between upgrades a bit more. The S1 to S2 was a pretty decent hardware upgrade, but that was mainly in the design and functionality of surepress (plus the "turning on" of OpenGL), but still, there hasn't been a significant performance jump since what? The og Bold came out?

    The S3 does need to have a jump in hardware over the S2.
    06-11-10 10:34 AM
  4. 1magine's Avatar
    I agree with the jist of this. It is rather meh when you see a new BB show up that's identical spec wise to the previous model, with just a few minor hardware tweaks, like the trackpad, wifi, and more app memory. They need to differentiate between upgrades a bit more. The S1 to S2 was a pretty decent hardware upgrade, but that was mainly in the design and functionality of surepress (plus the "turning on" of OpenGL), but still, there hasn't been a significant performance jump since what? The og Bold came out?

    The S3 does need to have a jump in hardware over the S2.
    I would narrow it further. The processors are not that far behind, though not opening up the Open GLES fully, (even on the S2 it is handicapped) is an issue. The BIG issue is memory amount and provisioning. Bottom line in 2010 for Smart Phones is 8 Gig application memory (Flash ROM) and 500 Meg RAM - minimum. Except for RIM. G-d even Samsung, Sony and a whole host of crudddy manufacturers would not try to pass of the 9700's hardware specs as their flagship smart phone.

    If you are over 35, or certainly over 40 - you remember that early pcs measured hard drive space in single megs. Let alone RAM which if your pc was lucky enough to have some seperate RAM (not system RAM) was measured in KB. I remember an article in a PC mag at the time that XP came out, ( which was not so long ago) saying what an absolute waste of space a 1Gig HD was, given how small a foot print XP had. And that NO ONE would ever come close to filling such a space! LMAO - but not then. Then I agreed with him. And partly this was true. No one was coding that large, because no one's PCs could handle it. As hardware capabilities doubled with each successive generation, we have learned to never question more space or more speed. But RIM is still stuck thinking pre-90's. Their belief that there is no need for more space, because most BB applications are small - reveals the absolute failure of circular logic. Yes, most Blackberry applications are under a Meg, ....BECAUUUUUSEEE......they have to be. Apple and android apps are not large, because they are poorly coded. They're large because they are fully realized pieces of software. If RIM's next generation of devices had 800mghz+ CPUS, video hardware acceleration (OpenGLES 2.0), 500 Megs RAM, and 8 gigs of Application memory - the application marketplace would explode with decent programs being ported over; and the 50-75% of current applications meant soley to solve shortcomings in the OS would give way to fully realized business productivity, social and media rich applications.
    Last edited by 1magine; 06-11-10 at 10:56 AM.
    06-11-10 10:53 AM
  5. Joel S.'s Avatar
    Apple and android apps are not large, because they are poorly coded. They're large because they are fully realized pieces of software.
    Also agree with the jist of your post, but this part isn't entirely true. Part of being a good programmer is optimization, using the fewest lines of code to do something as possible. When you have virtually limitless space, it's easy for programmers to be lazy and crank out app after app after app without optimizing the code. Why wouldn't they? It reduces development times and costs, but it's also horrible horrible programming practice (I get irritated when the programmers here copy the same 30 lines of code into multiple spots instead of creating a function).

    Because of the ease of relative development on platforms like the iPhone and Android, you're going to get a lot of crappily coded software from newer programmers. That's not to say the software they crank out is crap, and it's not to say all programmers are like that, it's just more likely to be the case on a platform like the iPhone's or Android's. Proper code optimization is one of those skills that programmers typically don't master until they've been at it for a while. Kind of how beginner guitar players don't know when to stop playing.

    The absolute best example of this is when you look at the free app memory on Blackberries after updates. They have to be stingy with space, so every update, they trim the fat a bit more, and we end up with more free app memory.
    06-11-10 12:37 PM
  6. Zod1010's Avatar
    What made you not to be sure if BB are better for usability and desirability as a business anymore? Because of the hype and all the buzz around iPhone. Those who have tried using iPhone (myself included) will readily tell you that BB still beats iPhone.
    My point here was twofold.

    One, I'm not sure that BB still beats iPhone/Android, with respect to mail/calendar. And if it does, I'm not sure that the amount by which it beats them isn't negligible. The reality is, how many business users genuinely care if they get an e-mail in three second of seven? So even if there is a gap, that gap impacts very few users.

    I know a folks in my office (I work for a Fortune 100 Pharma) who have switched to both iPhone and Android phones, without any loss of functionality. In fact, they enjoy greater functionality in their devices, because they can actually follow links sent to them in business e-mails.

    Second, assuming that BB delivers better mail/calendar, how long will it be before iPhone and Android have eliminated that gap?

    Again, I have highlighted why it will take ages for ANYONE to peel off iPhone users. iTunes have its well crafted hands deep into their pockets and have them hostage. It is a HUGE advantage. It is not because iPhone is the best phone.
    Where are these hostages you're referring to? I've never heard anyone say they would leave their iPhone behind if they weren't completely dependent on iTunes. Second, you can synch iTunes with almost any device.
    06-11-10 12:42 PM
  7. Joel S.'s Avatar
    My point here was twofold.

    One, I'm not sure that BB still beats iPhone/Android, with respect to mail/calendar. And if it does, I'm not sure that the amount by which it beats them isn't negligible. The reality is, how many business users genuinely care if they get an e-mail in three second of seven? So even if there is a gap, that gap impacts very few users.
    It's not just about how fast they get the emails, it's about the security, reliability, and control admins are allowed on the BB platform. Not to mention the ease of use from the end user's perspective.
    06-11-10 12:45 PM
  8. 1magine's Avatar
    Well said Joel. And this is partly true. Two points yoy and RIM need to acknowledge is that the shortage of ap memory has not in any way cut down on the poorly coded, memory leaking cr*p applications available on BB. Any long time berry user will have more than their share of free and paid apps that did not last the week. And far more imprtant is point 2 - which is decent coding and fat trimming will not help a 200 meg application on Android, Win Mo, and I-phone port to a BB at under 2 megs. I don't want to overstate this, but RIM has tons of Legacy hardware out there, including models just a year or 2 old that have under 40 megs of application space. Installing a 20-30 meg application is out of the question! If the application is 200 megs on other platforms and you can even reduce it to 1/10th of its size. How many types of berries will it go on?
    06-11-10 12:47 PM
  9. 1magine's Avatar
    It's not just about how fast they get the emails, it's about the security, reliability, and control admins are allowed on the BB platform. Not to mention the ease of use from the end user's perspective.

    No offense Joel -but here you like so many others are leaving the reservation.

    Security - from what exactly? Having your e-mail and other correspondence electronically intercepted. This has never EVER happenned to a private citizen's handheld device. Not Palm, not Apple, not Android.

    Security from hacking a found devices hard drive? Even a Bb is only secure if full encryption is enabled. Many out there have not freely available software, that can hack a BB in safe mode, remove the BES policy and proceed to take virtually any data that does not have secondaryprotocals in place off the device. Not to mention the ready availability of RSA on all device platforms, which can be used to lock a device down. RSA has never been cracked. Never.

    Security on a BB is a fully armed tank. It works great. But most don't fully utilize it, and even fewer really need it.
    06-11-10 12:53 PM
  10. hydroz_23's Avatar
    The most for a deposit is $400 per line and the least is $150. It has always been that amount. I just called and chatted to make sure because i was curious.

    06-11-10 01:37 PM
  11. 1812dave's Avatar
    The most for a deposit is $400 per line and the least is $150. It has always been that amount. I just called and chatted to make sure because i was curious.
    [/IMG]
    bringing in that evidence makes me wonder if you are a lawyer or just worried someone won't believe you if you just mention the chat with Verizon.
    06-11-10 01:41 PM
  12. hydroz_23's Avatar
    bringing in that evidence makes me wonder if you are a lawyer or just worried someone won't believe you if you just mention the chat with Verizon.
    Trust me tool, that is the last of my worries. I just wanted to give you something else to complain about in your pathetic day. You can thank me later
    06-11-10 01:45 PM
  13. 1812dave's Avatar
    Trust me tool, that is the last of my worries. I just wanted to give you something else to complain about in your pathetic day. You can thank me later
    pot

    kettle

    (you know the rest)
    06-11-10 01:52 PM
  14. Joel S.'s Avatar
    Well said Joel. And this is partly true. Two points yoy and RIM need to acknowledge is that the shortage of ap memory has not in any way cut down on the poorly coded, memory leaking cr*p applications available on BB. Any long time berry user will have more than their share of free and paid apps that did not last the week. And far more imprtant is point 2 - which is decent coding and fat trimming will not help a 200 meg application on Android, Win Mo, and I-phone port to a BB at under 2 megs. I don't want to overstate this, but RIM has tons of Legacy hardware out there, including models just a year or 2 old that have under 40 megs of application space. Installing a 20-30 meg application is out of the question! If the application is 200 megs on other platforms and you can even reduce it to 1/10th of its size. How many types of berries will it go on?
    Agree 100%. I understand why they went the way they did, but it's time to address it properly, not just slap on band-aids. The best comparison to be made is between the few cross-platform games. The BB versions noticeably lack features, sounds and textures.

    No offense Joel -but here you like so many others are leaving the reservation.

    Security - from what exactly? Having your e-mail and other correspondence electronically intercepted. This has never EVER happenned to a private citizen's handheld device. Not Palm, not Apple, not Android.

    Security from hacking a found devices hard drive? Even a Bb is only secure if full encryption is enabled. Many out there have not freely available software, that can hack a BB in safe mode, remove the BES policy and proceed to take virtually any data that does not have secondaryprotocals in place off the device. Not to mention the ready availability of RSA on all device platforms, which can be used to lock a device down. RSA has never been cracked. Never.

    Security on a BB is a fully armed tank. It works great. But most don't fully utilize it, and even fewer really need it.
    Email is not a secure method of information transfer, period. I work with a number of companies with very strict security protocols. Some are audited annually by their clients, and if they fail these security audits, all accounts are pulled. It's not about it having never HAPPENED (and honestly, I doubt it's never happened, just probably never on a scale where it raised an eyebrow), its about it never HAPPENING.

    When it comes to an office like the above ones I mentioned, the BB's security blows the iPhone and Android devices out of the water. Be it if some peon loses their device, or if someone is actively trying to hack into the company's email network.

    And no offence, but understating the importance of security amongst some of these large companies, and understating the importance of that market to RIM's success could also be construed as you guys "losing the reservation."

    Now, for you and I, I agree, it's not as important. I don't have a collection of tinfoil hats, and I really don't care if someone hacks my email and tries to read it. They'll just see a bunch of random exchanges between myself and my bands, and the occasional newsletter... gripping stuff. Still, the fact that I don't have to worry about my email being intercepted while it's going through RIM's servers is nice. The ease of setup, reliability of service, and simplicity of use are what keep me a faithful BB user. I'm not blindly faithful, if something better comes along for my purposes, I might switch, but I'm perfectly happy right now.

    Oh yea, I'm sure you heard about all those iPad emails that were ripped off. THAT is more of a concern to me than someone reading my emails. I have a special level of hatred for spam and spammers.
    06-11-10 02:36 PM
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