[The Gift]

yeah, "nice looking"...but it's on AT&T. do you want flash(not to be confused with Adobe's Flash), or do you want substance? perhaps you want those 18 million apps, 17 million of which are fart apps.

LOL oh man...

Hey, I'm from a graphic/artistic background...so I appreciate good design, therefore I like my gadgets to look nice as well as perform. The new iPhone does that for me.

You do have a point though, Flash is a worry for me, but I'm ready to overlook that as I am to give up using BBM.

..and for the record I am from the UK, AT&T services has nothing to do with me I will have a few options when it comes to iPhone ownership and which service provider/carrier to opt for.

[bb-bandit]

yeah, "nice looking"...but it's on AT&T. do you want flash(not to be confused with Adobe's Flash), or do you want substance? perhaps you want those 18 million apps, 17 million of which are fart apps.

I just want a modern day mobile browser. My browser is not very good on the Storm 2. I also like the quailty of the iphone...it's like a Breitling watch. AT&T is a turn-off as others have said and that will ultimately weigh in my decision. The email issue is becoming less of an issue and our company is now allowing iphones to be used as corporate devices. They're popping up everywhere now in our office. And I work for a very big company. RIM will still have a strong position in the smartphone market because they have the best keyboards, but in the touchscreen space RIM could lose ground. Especially with iphones becoming more acceptable in the corporate world.....

"British bank Standard Chartered is replacing the Blackberry, currently its standard corporate communications device, with the iPhone, a move that could eventually result in thousands of bankers switching to the Apple device for business communication on the go. "

Mentor Picks: iPhone Replaces Blackberry for some Bankers - India Chief Mentor - WSJ

[1812dave]

LOL oh man...

Hey, I'm from a graphic/artistic background...so I appreciate good design, therefore I like my gadgets to look nice as well as perform. The new iPhone does that for me.

You do have a point though, Flash is a worry for me, but I'm ready to overlook that as I am to give up using BBM.

..and for the record I am from the UK, AT&T services has nothing to do with me I will have a few options when it comes to iPhone ownership and which service provider/carrier to opt for.

and how about the goofball pop ups on the iphone? they interrupt your use of the phone--you have to dismiss the popups before you can get back to whatever app you are using.

[1812dave]

I just want a modern day mobile browser. My browser is not very good on the Storm 2. I also like the quailty of the iphone...it's like a Breitling watch. AT&T is a turn-off as others have said and that will ultimately weigh in my decision. The email issue is becoming less of an issue and our company is now allowing iphones to be used as corporate devices. They're popping up everywhere now in our office. And I work for a very big company. RIM will still have a strong position in the smartphone market because they have the best keyboards, but in the touchscreen space RIM could lose ground. Especially with iphones becoming more acceptable in the corporate world.....

"British bank Standard Chartered is replacing the Blackberry, currently its standard corporate communications device, with the iPhone, a move that could eventually result in thousands of bankers switching to the Apple device for business communication on the go. "

Mentor Picks: iPhone Replaces Blackberry for some Bankers - India Chief Mentor - WSJ

like I've stated before, I don't care what anyone else is using, so just because some british bank wants the Jesus phone, am I suppose to buy one too?? they may or may not turn out to be happy with their decision to switch. time will tell. but it still doesn't matter to me if they like the iphone.

[bb-bandit]

like I've stated before, I don't care what anyone else is using, so just because some british bank wants the Jesus phone, am I suppose to buy one too?? they may or may not turn out to be happy with their decision to switch. time will tell. but it still doesn't matter to me if they like the iphone.

Like I said more and more companies (not just the one I posted about with a bunch of farting bankers) are allowing iphone as the choice. Like they're doing at my company. Everyday I receive more and more emails from people I work with and in the footer of their message it says, "sent from my iphone". Too bad AT&T has an exclusive contract with Apple.

[1812dave]

Too bad AT&T has an exclusive contract with Apple.

agreed. I wouldn't get an iphone if it were FREE, while it's on AT&T.

[aboutDbuzz]

..and for the record I am from the UK, AT&T services has nothing to do with me I will have a few options when it comes to iPhone ownership and which service provider/carrier to opt for.

Are you from the same UK as these guys?

BBC - dot.Rory: iPhone 4? Let's have 3G first

[bacon612]

agreed. I wouldn't get an iphone if it were FREE, while it's on AT&T.

So Dave, are you inferring that RIM doesn't have to change anything to stay competitive in the smart phone market?

[RVNut]

Blackberry needs OS6, a better Web kit, maybe flash and better user interface to keep their market share. Right now the fact that IPhone is only on AT&T is what is saving them. Don't ge the I4t me wrong I love my S2, but the I4 is interesting.

[1812dave]

So Dave, are you inferring that RIM doesn't have to change anything to stay competitive in the smart phone market?

I think you confused the word "infer" with "imply".

ALL mfgrs need to stay on their toes to be competitive.

[bacon612]

I think you confused the word "infer" with "imply".

ALL mfgrs need to stay on their toes to be competitive.

No, I didn't. I think you forgot to answer my question.

[1812dave]

No, I didn't. I think you forgot to answer my question.

please rephrase the question and I'll give it another shot.

[aboutDbuzz]

Of course, without a doubt the iPhone has done what no one in the industry has even come any close to achieving as far a device goes, viz-a-viz, a single device (one size fits all) that blows away its competition. Let's get it clear, no one in the industry can market a product as Apple does. Not even a close competition at all.

I have an iPhone in the family and any one who have used one will readily tell you that it just does not work when you want it to do the basic thing a phone does: Calls and messaging. It's unreliability has been shown not to be limited to AT&T see here and here. Yet, most users stick with the iPhone because it has been drilled into them by the gods of Apple marketing prowess that it is the best device you can get your hands on. An iPhone user requires iTunes which eventually gets the user to make investments they cannot easily turn away from. (As Mr. Jobs taunted during WWDC 2010, Apple has 150 million credit card accounts). That is Apple's greatest weapon (the mark of the beast if you will). No other device maker can lay such a claim or have a single point of access that every user must possess.

iPhone and Innovation
- iPhone is not the first device that combined multimedia and phone in a single package.
-iPhone is not the first device with touchscreen
-iPhone is not the first device with GPS, Wifi, Bluetooth, etc
-iPhone is not the first device with camera both (dual camera and flash)
-iPhone is not the first a slim form factor.

What will Apple want you to know? We are the innovators.
Folks have used SurePress and think it is not as good as iPhone's touch. That is what innovation is all about. RIM developed SurePress and it is superior to touch. I will not bore you with other innovations that RIM made with its OS that is just making it to iOS4 (e.g. unified Inbox, etc).

The bottomline for me is this, iPhone is a good device and nicely made but it is not what Apple markets it as: a wonder-kid. Anyone who cares about a device that actually works should think twice before getting an iPhone.

[trophynuts]

i am not sure why people insist that RIM must beat Apple and the I4. I think RIM has enough loyal customers that they really shouldn't have much to worry about. Not to mention the corporate connection they have with the world. Last time i checked you can't buy an Iphone WITHOUT a camera. You may not think that is a big issue. But i can tell you that means NO ONE in the Govt employment industry will be carrying one around. You know what they carry? BB's that are now produced without cameras...ie Tour and the new Bold. I really wish people would stop comparing RIM with the new Iphone so drastically. I mean yeah it has a few cool features i'll give Apple that but when it comes down to a no kidding stable means of "COMMUNICATION" then i think RIM wins hands down. We're talking about cellphones here, their MAIN function is to stay connected...not play the new version of Brick Breaker. If i want to play games i will buy a PSP or an Ipod Touch...wait i already have a touch never mind.

[bacon612]

please rephrase the question and I'll give it another shot.

I just re-read this thread to find 16 present Storm2 users that are ready to jump ship to a competitors device. (Apple, Android). More importantly,they are moving on for a reasonable cause and not because they hate RIM and not because they are Fanboys.

The title of this thread asks about the "Future" of storm devices with the iPhone 4 being announced. There is little positive argument in this entire thread about how RIM will continue their stronghold on the Smart phone market in the future.

Sadly, I still believe that the storm series is over especially after seeing this 9800 slider nonsense being called a "bold" and the clam shell device is unacceptable. Anyone else find these two phones hard to get excited about?

Believe me, I want nothing more than to keep my S2 with added (OS6) features like an acceptable web browser, better email (no more truncated BS, better more smooth html). Its just that the rate that things are going with RIMs competitors and what info we see about RIMs future devices, its becoming harder and harder to keep the faith.


I would like to see this thread continue with talks of the future rather than a discussion about whether people like their androids, iphones and their fart apps.

[JerseyDubbin]

I think rim and apple are looking for two different markets. RIM has and will always be business first. I love my S2, the customizability and many other things that comes with it (a fully functioning data network is a plus). The iPhone is great for users who want something new/hot with thousands and useless apps to sift through while not having the complete functionality necessary for work (they are improving on this front).

As already stated, apple has been playing catch up with many phones for years with cameras, microphones, MMS messaging, and multi-tasking. Yes they have a great browser, cool. So I wait another 15-20 seconds for mine to load, doesn't kill me. They take HD video now...if I want extremely high quality video I am going to be a separate device to take the video as I will with a camera (looking at Nikons as i type this).

The blackberry form factor appeals to me much more and is much more functional for my uses. I can have all my messages in one place if I want or separate them to different inboxes (great for work and other emails etc).

The only thing I want RIM to work on is the hardware (faster processors and more memory) and maybe a better media interface for playing music. They come with 16gig SD cards, mine as well use it. Everything else within the phone functions fine for my use, plus we don't have thousands of useless apps to go through.

[bacon612]

i am not sure why people insist that RIM must beat Apple and the I4. I think RIM has enough loyal customers that they really shouldn't have much to worry about. Not to mention the corporate connection they have with the world. Last time i checked you can't buy an Iphone WITHOUT a camera. You may not think that is a big issue. But i can tell you that means NO ONE in the Govt employment industry will be carrying one around. You know what they carry? BB's that are now produced without cameras...ie Tour and the new Bold. I really wish people would stop comparing RIM with the new Iphone so drastically. I mean yeah it has a few cool features i'll give Apple that but when it comes down to a no kidding stable means of "COMMUNICATION" then i think RIM wins hands down. We're talking about cellphones here, their MAIN function is to stay connected...not play the new version of Brick Breaker. If i want to play games i will buy a PSP or an Ipod Touch...wait i already have a touch never mind.

This thread is not about camera-less RIM devices. Its about the media oriented STORM series and how it will evolvein a market with competitors, like the iphone.

[1812dave]

I just re-read this thread to find 16 present Storm2 users that are ready to jump ship to a competitors device. (Apple, Android). More importantly,they are moving on for a reasonable cause and not because they hate RIM and not because they are Fanboys.

The title of this thread asks about the "Future" of storm devices with the iPhone 4 being announced. There is little positive argument in this entire thread about how RIM will continue their stronghold on the Smart phone market in the future.

Sadly, I still believe that the storm series is over especially after seeing this 9800 slider nonsense being called a "bold" and the clam shell device is unacceptable. Anyone else find these two phones hard to get excited about?

Believe me, I want nothing more than to keep my S2 with added (OS6) features like an acceptable web browser, better email (no more truncated BS, better more smooth html). Its just that the rate that things are going with RIMs competitors and what info we see about RIMs future devices, its becoming harder and harder to keep the faith.


I would like to see this thread continue with talks of the future rather than a discussion about whether people like their androids, iphones and their fart apps.

Since I don't have a crystal ball, I see no point in discussing the future of RIM's devices. I don't work for them. I just happened to have purchased one of their products. MUST be devote our energies to making useless prognostications?? To what end?

I'm more concerned with the here and now, and right NOW, Dragon for Email is messed up on my phone. If you have an answer for that, I'd appreciate the heck out of it!

[Zod1010]

BB made a lot of hey in the smart phone market while there was little competition. They continued to make hey as VZW had no other substantial smart phone choices. Android alone will take their pound of flesh from RIM when it comes time for current BB owners to upgrade. If iPhone does ever come to VZW (which it will eventually), they too will take their pound of flesh. The reality is, marketshare doesn't last forever. You either build a better mousetrap or go home. We've seen it with Palm. While I'm satisfied with my BB (for now), I have very little confidence in RIM's ability to keep up. They are quickly becoming your grandfather's smart phone.

[i7guy]

I just re-read this thread to find 16 present Storm2 users that are ready to jump ship to a competitors device. (Apple, Android). More importantly,they are moving on for a reasonable cause and not because they hate RIM and not because they are Fanboys.

The title of this thread asks about the "Future" of storm devices with the iPhone 4 being announced. There is little positive argument in this entire thread about how RIM will continue their stronghold on the Smart phone market in the future.

Sadly, I still believe that the storm series is over especially after seeing this 9800 slider nonsense being called a "bold" and the clam shell device is unacceptable. Anyone else find these two phones hard to get excited about?

Believe me, I want nothing more than to keep my S2 with added (OS6) features like an acceptable web browser, better email (no more truncated BS, better more smooth html). Its just that the rate that things are going with RIMs competitors and what info we see about RIMs future devices, its becoming harder and harder to keep the faith.


I would like to see this thread continue with talks of the future rather than a discussion about whether people like their androids, iphones and their fart apps.

fyi, I'm not jumping ship, so count me out. Apple is very good at marketing, and at producing devices with form over function, while at the same time leading you to believe they invented it first.

This is not "iphone 4 is here, all other manufacturers just pack up and go home."

So I see the Storm series continuing and getting better in what it does vs what iphone does.

[1812dave]

fyi, I'm not jumping ship, so count me out. Apple is very good at marketing, and at producing devices with form over function, while at the same time leading you to believe they invented it first.

This is not "iphone 4 is here, all other manufacturers just pack up and go home."

So I see the Storm series continuing and getting better in what it does vs what iphone does.

I couldn't have expressed it better. you are so right that Apple prefers form over function!

[aboutDbuzz]

fyi, I'm not jumping ship, so count me out. Apple is very good (excellent) at marketing, and at producing devices with form over function, while at the same time leading you to believe they invented it first.

This is not "iphone 4 is here, all other manufacturers just pack up and go home."

So I see the Storm series continuing and getting better in what it does vs what iphone does.

You said in fewer words than me. I will make that 'good' excellent!

[aboutDbuzz]

Sadly, I still believe that the storm series is over especially after seeing this 9800 slider nonsense being called a "bold" and the clam shell device is unacceptable. Anyone else find these two phones hard to get excited about?

Believe me, I want nothing more than to keep my S2 with added (OS6) features like an acceptable web browser, better email (no more truncated BS, better more smooth html). Its just that the rate that things are going with RIMs competitors and what info we see about RIMs future devices, its becoming harder and harder to keep the faith.


I would like to see this thread continue with talks of the future rather than a discussion about whether people like their androids, iphones and their fart apps.

Trust me, every device manufacture has been awaken and they are catching up to Apple's gimmick. I will expect the next Storm (oh yes, there will be Storm 3) to be better in both form factor and usability than what will currently have in Storm 2. And if you are reading this, RIM engineers, please keep the SurePress or provide it as an option for those of us that prefer an innovation.

[trophynuts]

This thread is not about camera-less RIM devices. Its about the media oriented STORM series and how it will evolvein a market with competitors, like the iphone.

thank you master of the obvious....

my post was in relation to the title which reads "Future of Storm devices with Iphone 4 being announced"

yet i did not speak of the "future storm device" because no one has any info what so ever on such device. I was referring to the comparison that is being put between BB and Iphone4 devices.

Thank you for wasting our time with your 68th post.

[Zod1010]

Ultimately, this thread comes down to two crucial points:

1. Can RIM keep up with Apple?
2. Does RIM need to keep up with Apple?

I don't think anyone is going to confuse the success Apple has had in recent years, releasing one wildly successful piece of hardware after another, with what RIM has done, typically going in the opposite direction (Storm 1, Tour, etc.). So I think the answer to that first question is a resounding "no".

As for the second question, I think it depends on two factors. First, does the business world see Android and iPhone solutions as a viable option. I would think more and more, that answer will become a yes. Second, how much of a push does Apple and Android make for the corporate market? Will they release a BES like product? Do they need to? This answer calls for greater speculation than the earlier questions, but I would think so.

As a side note, anyone who thinks pressing a button to get a piece of hardware to respond (e.g. SurePress) is revolutionary, is smoking something quite illegal. We've had to physically press buttons for years, in order to get things to respond... that's not new. That's actually as old as it gets. Just because it hadn't been done in a phone before, doesn't make it new. We've never had a smart phone send smoke signals before, but it wouldn't be a technical advancement if we did. Tapping on glass, absent a mechanical movement, is the more recent technical advancement (regardless of whether Apple invented it or not). And it's exactly why no one is mimicking RIM's design.