[periwinklemoon]

Not bashing, not snarky. Just genuinely curious.

Saw comment below posted in the .85 leaked OS thread:
"I think it is official that Crackberry forum users are RIM's beta testers."
RIM and carriers surely read posts at this site.
What do you think?

[Sith_Apprentice]

RIM does read this and the other forums. I think they did come to the realization that unless they stop putting out to the partners, they won't ever stop the leaks. The response they get is valuable, they just aren't geared to hear it from 200,000+ people

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Ndahlseid]

According to Crucial this is totally false. RIM spends a lot of time and money testing things themselves and then moving on to the next build.

[kigs]

if they spend "so much time testing", didnt they notice the incredible amount of lag in .65 (and lower)?

Seems apparent even if you use the phone for 2 seconds....and its one month now...there are bugs in it still after .85 that are very obvious.

I understand that these are bugs and every phone has bugs but some of these things are so obvious even an untrained eye can see...

[leo1055]

Of course they are!!

[kazn3r]

i mean I still have bugs in .85. i don't think the flipping from portrait to landscape is any better than .83 and the SureType is still messed up...

I wouldn't rule out using us as beta testers. they'd have to be stupid not to. they could release a leak, check the forums for 2 days, write down what problems we say, go fix them, and THEN go to their own beta testers and say "here we think we fixed this problem, have we?"

I wouldn't disagree if they used information i posted up here to help better OUR phones...

[meth68]

I would believe so and I would also say its extremely wise of them to do so. There is a large group of BB users on here everything from first timers to professionals. I mean look at the feedback after about 10minutes after a leak is posted. Bugs are found before some are even done downloading the update. RIM has their name on the line, they don't want their most hyped phone (storm) getting horrible reviews/customer feedback only because Verizon is slow as **** and could care less about its customer base.

[rvgraham]

Not bashing, not snarky. Just genuinely curious.

Saw comment below posted in the .85 leaked OS thread:
"I think it is official that Crackberry forum users are RIM's beta testers."
RIM and carriers surely read posts at this site.
What do you think?

Well they'd be pretty stupid not to but then again large corporations aren't usually known for being flexible in their thinking.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Crucial_Xtreme]

No, RIM has it's own testers. Plus, RIM has no control over the leaks as they happen when released to Partners. Yes, they do read the forums, as I've said, there are some people who read these forums as part of their job description, but they in no way use CB as beta testers.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Grafx]

You people saying "obviously bugs arent fixed" are so incredibly naive.


Do you honestly think every build has every fix completely? Developers have priority lists for issues/bug fixes/optimizations/new features.

They add them in priority, just because a new build is compiled, does not mean they are "ignoring" an issue or "dont see it". It simply is not on there "to do" list as of immediately

[DonNguyen]

You people saying "obviously bugs arent fixed" are so incredibly naive.


Do you honestly think every build has every fix completely? Developers have priority lists for issues/bug fixes/optimizations/new features.

They add them in priority, just because a new build is compiled, does not mean they are "ignoring" an issue or "dont see it". It simply is not on there "to do" list as of immediately

exactly...thank you for posting this

[inspector_yoo]

Even if RIM isn't using Crackberry.com as beta testers, they SHOULD! Who better to use as a beta test sample then the biggest forum dedicated to blackberries with near immediate, direct feedback to mass, diverse, consumers (as we can see, many people like me are not technology junkies) for free.

I too think RIM should focus on perfecting their current OS by removing most of the bugs first before moving on to enhancements. However, it would be impossible to remove everything. There is no chance of ever reaching a perfect OS because as humans we will always want more.

Imagine if the current OS was running at 100% efficiency with no bugs, lags, or malfunctions. We would be as happy as the fat kid that got the last piece of pumpkin pie till we bump into someone with an iphone or Nokia that might do 1 or 2 things better or differently and then we will want RIM to do the same thing.

I strongly applaud RIM with their consistent, and helpful updates even I think the Storm should have came stock with at least version .75 even if it meant delays but I'm no C.E.O. or nothing. Can't wait till the freaking official application center launches...lol

[Cacique500]

I think it would be a good move on their part to use us. I don't know how many testers they have, but I bet we've got a lot more here, and running a vastly different set of apps on each device.

It's a great way to uncover things quickly - then they can prioritize what needs to get fixed for each new build. If it results in better builds faster (which it's doing) I'm all for it and don't mind being "used"

[Pete6]

I certainly think that RIM read these and other forums. Do they take our comments back to their development department.? Probably along the lines of "Yeah, the CrackBerry mob, thought that too.". At which point the developers go "Uh-huh, next."

RIM not only have their own testers but the also know very well what they put out there. They know the likely bugs in each OS release BEFORE they even go out the door.

[periwinklemoon]

No, RIM has it's own testers. Plus, RIM has no control over the leaks as they happen when released to Partners. Yes, they do read the forums, as I've said, there are some people who read these forums as part of their job description, but they in no way use CB as beta testers.

Had no idea people got paid to read forums. (As an avid reader, how does one get on that payroll? )

My own humble .02, tend to agree with exactly what Pete6 said. That they do know about bugs before they ever go out the door. And by virtue of consumer participation at boards, are finding more (but that's where the variables comes into play; individual users, any 3rd party apps installed that still have kinks for Storm, hardware issue on a specific phone but not appearing in the majority, etc.) Built my PC, and learned along that journey it's a constant evolution. "Perfection", like nirvana, is elusive. There will probably always be tweaks, but stable is the goal, and stable is achievable.

Oh, on a side note, am becoming astonished at the number of battery pulls becoming almost reflex, resets, OS wipes (formats) on a product that's only been on the market a little over a month. Were it a PC, it would rapidly become one goobered up machine by virtue of those repetitive acts alone.

(Still no snarky tone here, genuinely curious ) What is up with all these 'unofficial' releases? Or 'official leaks'. I'm new to BB, is this common with their software? Leaks surely must be coming from a source with access to RIM development. Is there some rogue employee(s) leaking genuine "possibles" that are meant to be kept shelved till polished and buffed? Or is there some underground script kiddie latching onto a not-quite-finished product and doing some tweaking himself and then letting it loose in the wild? Or is this perhaps done with RIM's knowledge and a glance in the other direction when it occurs? (Because one would think if RIM didn't want them out there, and concluding their work is copyrighted, they would pull them immediately upon discovery).

Just trying to figure it all out...

[Devlyn16]

Realisticly You can't use Forum readers / posters as Beta testers.

There needs to be back and forth dialogue and an extablished reporting procedure for beta tests.


90% of forum posts (complaints) don't conatin 1/10th the information a RIM would need to determine the cause of a problem.

[podawk]

I don’t think RIM intentionally uses people outside a select few as beta testers. With that said RIM, or any company, would be foolish not to look at any community that provides input on there products. But just having our input doesn’t mean that our comments will translate into future developments. Those decisions need to be made from a business / developers stand point.

[emuneee]

I used to be a verification engineer for a handset manufacturer, the one equally owned by a Japanese consumer electronics company and a Swedish telecommunications company.

You better believe that most bugs are observed, documented, and some even have solutions. However in an environment with engineers and management, somethings are overlooked for the sake of getting the product out into the retail channel.

I'm sure RIM watches these forums informally. I know I used to roam all the forums for issues experienced by end users. It improves the quality of the product. They probably aren't using the forum for serious beta testing, but probably are observing the behavior of phones in the hands of end users.

[loudsystem]

As a beta tester for a few VERY large home electronics companies i can say Rim can NOT get any valuable information from 99.99% of the posts and complaints on here. They require logs and files to see what exactly is happening on YOUR hand set and to the OS Code. They require step by step instructions on how to recreate the error. Everyone has different 3rd party apps which can be effecting stuff. Without knowing the specifics for each phone and each problem everything people post is useless to them.

Devlyn 16 above said it right.

so i am one of the people who voted for doubtful.. Although a few rim employees may read these forums they arent getting much from it but a bunch of complaining.

Personally if i could look back i would of returned my storm and went back to sprint and kept my curve. I HATE this phone. But i was too hopeful on an OS update to make it right and now its too late. Thats my own fault so im not going to complain about it.

Hopefully rim gets their act together and works on getting this phone STABLE before they add any other features.

[onstageone]

Aside from direct advice I take everything posted here with a grain of salt...as I am sure (or hope) anyone with any legitimate power @ RIM reading anything posted here would.

[808bb]

as long as the updates keep coming in...that's a good thing.

[bkr6891]

I agree -- doubtful.

[revslg]

I think they watch the forums to see what we are talking about and fussing with and that is about the end of it.

[ace242]

I wouldn't mind to be a beta tester

[racermech#CB]

No, RIM has it's own testers. Plus, RIM has no control over the leaks as they happen when released to Partners. Yes, they do read the forums, as I've said, there are some people who read these forums as part of their job description, but they in no way use CB as beta testers.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Offical or not it makes perfect sense. I am sure there are RIM employees on this site, if nothing else for there own personal use. Either way I am sure people at RIM lurk on these forums, they see the issues that a normal user is having in the "real" world.

I use to be involved in RC cars for a while, and one company had there own forum, for there cars and other brands. This gave them direct contact with there customers, they could see issues that normal people where having, and see what normal people where saying about other brands. I know for a fact they would review the boards because no matter how much inhouse testing they did, not all the problems would be worked out.