[keaton]

unless I'm gravely mistaken, it's nearly impossible to truly brick a blackberry through an OS upgrade, correct? I mean. I had a few crazy situations myself in the past, but nothing JL commander didn't help me fix.

[howarmat]

Well, I for one dont expect a 'perfect os'..
As I do write software myself (not for phones, but for specialized system, mostly running Linux), I understand that the 'perfect software' isnt out there, there will always be something to fix/improve in a system this complicated...

HOWEVER, what Verizon DOES upset me about, and IS 100% Verizon's fault, is their lack of updates...
Other companies with the Storm (almost all of them now I think) have released updates.. Only Verizon is sitting on a very buggy version and not offiacially doing anything to help their customers...

If I didnt have access the the unofficial releases, and was stuck on 75, I'd have dumped the storm, and verizon, a long time ago...

there is more to it though that you have to understand. What patches is saying is that even though there are improvements, there also is something that is wrong in them the is affecting a VZW pay service. Other companies might not have the same services, therefore a bug for VZW is not a bug for say Vodafone. Same with Bell & telus. Like stated, look into civics sticky and you can see some problems that exist.

They are not going to throw an update out there that affects something people pay for. How would you like it if you are paying $10 a month for MMS/SMS plan and the MMS doesnt work?

VZW will release another update when they see fit. In the mean time, load a leak or hybrid. I am very sorry to those on BES or who only have a mac, they have to hang in there and hope RIM delivers an OS that VZW stamps their approval on.

[patches152]

unless I'm gravely mistaken, it's nearly impossible to truly brick a blackberry through an OS upgrade, correct? I mean. I had a few crazy situations myself in the past, but nothing JL commander didn't help me fix.

i've tried to brick blackberries in every manner you could think of...closest i got to doing so was just a plain ol' nuke (causing the OS to not function, so the phone would power on but had no code to tell it what to do)...which was fun!

[RBernier]

there is more to it though that you have to understand. What patches is saying is that even though there are improvements, there also is something that is wrong in them the is affecting a VZW pay service. Other companies might not have the same services, therefore a bug for VZW is not a bug for say Vodafone. Same with Bell & telus. Like stated, look into civics sticky and you can see some problems that exist.

They are not going to throw an update out there that affects something people pay for. How would you like it if you are paying $10 a month for MMS/SMS plan and the MMS doesnt work?

VZW will release another update when they see fit. In the mean time, load a leak or hybrid. I am very sorry to those on BES or who only have a mac, they have to hang in there and hope RIM delivers an OS that VZW stamps their approval on.

I'm on a BES (private, not corporate) and I have been happily running every leak and most of the hybrids that have been released.

[patches152]

I'm on a BES (private, not corporate) and I have been happily running every leak and most of the hybrids that have been released.

then you have a badass BES admin where you work. most admins won't run unsupported softwares, but then again i've met a few admins who were just figure heads, click the box to turn stuff on and off, etc. many of those kind of admins aren't even capable of supporting "official" software themselves. if your browser slowed down or something, they'd say "dial *228"....lmfao! they're just a middle man between you and the carrier's tech support team.

[chocalickbrown]

If Verizon were to tell me that it is OK to upgrade to "another carriers official OS" (Not Likely) and that they will support issues with my phone (again...not likely) I would be happy to upgrade my phone.

But the reply I got from the Verizon service REP when I asked the question "Can I install software released by RIM for the Storm on my phone, and keep my warranty"
VZW REP Reply: Verizon has no obligation support any device that is NOT running a Verizon Officially released version"

This will keep me from upgrading my phone, simply because I NEED my Blackberry, and cant afford to have an unsupported "BRICK" if a catastrophic failure occurs while using software. (That and I refuse to go back to using my old LG Chocolate if such an event occurs)

Hey, I definitely feel you about this portion of your post.

I am still running .75 trying to be a "good verizon bb user" because I don't want to forfeit my warranty. It is very frustrating to wait and wait.

[patches152]

just to clarify AGAIN......


Voiding warrantee and "not supported software" are two separate things...

if there was no way to go back to .75, then maybe you'd have an argument. but you can upgrade, downgrade, left grade, right grade, grade grade, triple grade....any kind of grade...as long as you're able to go back to .75 there is no issue...

the rep who told you that it would forfeit the warrantee is an outright liar. he doesn�t know his job description.

"Unsupported software"

lets take a look at these two words:

Dictionary.com says,


"Unsupported
Adjective
1. not sustained or maintained by nonmaterial aid; "unsupported accusations" [ant: supported]
2. not held up or borne; "removal of the central post left the roof unsupported" [ant: supported]"


"software
�noun

1. Computers. the programs used to direct the operation of a computer, as well as documentation giving instructions on how to use them. Compare hardware (def. 5).
2. anything that is not hardware but is used with hardware, esp. audiovisual materials, as film, tapes, records, etc.: a studio fully equipped but lacking software."


So �unsupported software� just means if you have any issues, and the tech support people find out you�re not on the �supported software� they �can�t support you��doesn�t mean your phone is banished to a life of purgatory without tech support. Just gotta revert to the �supported� version and all is well.

[kinggeoff]

unless I'm gravely mistaken, it's nearly impossible to truly brick a blackberry through an OS upgrade, correct? I mean. I had a few crazy situations myself in the past, but nothing JL commander didn't help me fix.

this has been my experience too

i was upping to a hybrid before and tripped over the usb cable mid install.. sent the storm flying across the freakin room.

Wiped, reloaded, no worries. These things are hard to kill software wise

[jwacton]

I would like to formally register another compliant regarding the Blackberry Storm. My compliant is your company has nelegeled to inform myself and any verizon customer with a storm about when an operating system update will come.

When I bought the storm, the operating system did not perform as advertised, and even with the 1st MR1, still fails to meet the minimum standard for all components/services to work properly or even as advertised.

Verizon is the last company to provide an upgrade since 4.7.0.75, and I blame it because you and RIM failure to communicate about the testing results effectively. When a build on a fix is reported, it shouldn't ever fail again. I don't care if you have to spend Millions of dollars to put out a MR2, MR3, MR4...., because if Verizon doesn't get it out soon. My money will never go to verizon again regardless of what your company will offer. This is the worst customer service a company can provide, failure to meet the advertise performance of the product.

[patches152]

I would like to formally register another compliant regarding the Blackberry Storm. My compliant is your company has nelegeled to inform myself and any verizon customer with a storm about when an operating system update will come.

When I bought the storm, the operating system did not perform as advertised, and even with the 1st MR1, still fails to meet the minimum standard for all components/services to work properly or even as advertised.

Verizon is the last company to provide an upgrade since 4.7.0.75, and I blame it because you and RIM failure to communicate about the testing results effectively. When a build on a fix is reported, it shouldn't ever fail again. I don't care if you have to spend Millions of dollars to put out a MR2, MR3, MR4...., because if Verizon doesn't get it out soon. My money will never go to verizon again regardless of what your company will offer. This is the worst customer service a company can provide, failure to meet the advertise performance of the product.

"dear customer...
we are writing you to let you know about our current status in testing blackberry software for the storm in response to known issues.

the current status is: we don't know, because nothing has passed our testing.

once something has passed our critera, you will be notified within 48 hours to a week later.

thank you for your continuing patience, we know this can be frustrating

and thank you for being the best part of verizon wireless!"

there you go!

love,
patches
kthxbai...

[patches152]

On a serious note, I would like to hear your elaboration on the points I�ve quoted. Care to indulge us?

1) My compliant is your company has neglected to inform myself and any Verizon customer with a storm about when an operating system update will come.

what info are you expecting? what software versions they have, and how bad they all failed? no news means there is no news to report, generally speaking.

2) When I bought the storm, the operating system did not perform as advertised, and even with the 1st MR1,

.65 sucked, I agree. but what are your complaints with .75?

3) still fails to meet the minimum standard for all components/services to work properly or even as advertised.

care to elaborate as to what "minimum standard for all components/services" means? have you created a new script for testing the device yourself? I�d love to see it.

4) Verizon is the last company to provide an upgrade since 4.7.0.75, and I blame it because you and RIM failure to communicate about the testing results effectively. When a build on a fix is reported, it shouldn't ever fail again.

what does being last have to do with anything?

and do you know how far ahead RIM is with developing new software? by the time the feedback gets back from ANY carrier they're light years past that point. they don't go back and fix old builds, they implement the fixes into whatever build they're working on at that time. so when say .113 failed, the feedback went into maybe .132 (for the sake of the example). so if anything you're complaining that RIM is developing internally faster than the carriers can test? or that RIM should make one build, send it to carriers, and sit around waiting for feedback?

I�m kind of partial to how they're doing it now. just keep plugging along. fix what you find, if a carrier reports something new, implement that in the next build...aka PROGRESS!!!!

don't take any of this personally, because nothing is directed at you, just meant to be critical to your thought process and to figure out why you're coming to the conclusions you've drawn out in your post...so that we may further ourselves as a community of users, and possibly provide worthwhile feedback to RIM to improve the device we all own.

[kinggeoff]

hahahah this is getting hillarious

i cant believe some people live in such an entitlement rich fantasy world

"WHAT DO YOU MEAN VERIZON CANT TELL ME THE FUTURE>!>!! IM OBVIOUSLY PAYING FOR THE FUTURE!@!!"

[sjsharks]

Unite? Are we supposed to gather outside of Verizon's HQ with torches and pitchforks or something?






if so, sign me up. I've never been to a pitchfork rally before....should I bring snacks?

[patches152]

Unite? Are we supposed to gather outside of Verizon's HQ with torches and pitchforks or something?






if so, sign me up. I've never been to a pitchfork rally before....should I bring snacks?

the technical term is "a mob"...and we'll be passing around a sign up sheet for snacks, drinks, and paper or plastic cups/plates/napkins (sorry, they only come in paper these days) /plastic forks and knives, etc...

[Morf32]

the technical term is "a mob"...and we'll be passing around a sign up sheet for snacks, drinks, and paper or plastic cups/plates/napkins (sorry, they only come in paper these days) /plastic forks and knives, etc...

This actually made me laugh out loud. Ha ha ha ha ha!

[sjsharks]

I wonder if the CEO of verizon looks like Frankenstein...

[rmt5034]

haha i hope something like this really goes down

[jwacton]

what info are you expecting? what software versions they have, and how bad they all failed? no news means there is no news to report, generally speaking.

Any communication. It is basic customer service 101. I've seen corporations publically admit to their customers that a problem exist, and they are aware of it and working at it. What Verizon is doing is responding to complaints as they come in, rather than being proactive and customer service focused.



.65 sucked, I agree. but what are your complaints with .75?

.75-Camera button didn't click consistently, MMS problems (which I don't use that often) but I should if I have the software to do it. Browser-Not as advertised. Patchy radio reception. While they worked, they each didn't work consistently. There is a difference between improving software through OS upgrades and OS upgrades that fix bugs. the .113 bug list was a clear example of all the problems that .75 had.


care to elaborate as to what "minimum standard for all components/services" means? have you created a new script for testing the device yourself? I�d love to see it.

What I referred to above that a radio and browser that didn't work consistently and as it was advertised on TV, that is the stand they have to produce and while .75 worked, it didn't meet in my opinion what they were advertising.



what does being last have to do with anything?
If Verizon is claimly they are waiting to do the right thing for the customers, and if Verizon prides itself on great customer service, it was just to point out in my opinion how they can't wait and not communicate, and if they do wait until an OS is meeting a high standard, then act as they should, and communicate with their customers.

and do you know how far ahead RIM is with developing new software? by the time the feedback gets back from ANY carrier they're light years past that point. they don't go back and fix old builds, they implement the fixes into whatever build they're working on at that time. so when say .113 failed, the feedback went into maybe .132 (for the sake of the example). so if anything you're complaining that RIM is developing internally faster than the carriers can test? or that RIM should make one build, send it to carriers, and sit around waiting for feedback?

Not what I was trying to state. What I can't understand is how a build fix in say .113, get fixed, and the next build, stay fixed, but later build, the bug comes back. Granted sometimes, it's a new bug they couldn't anticipate. It just my observation due to all the hybrids created that it feels like a 2 steps forward, 1 step back.

I�m kind of partial to how they're doing it now. just keep plugging along. fix what you find, if a carrier reports something new, implement that in the next build...aka PROGRESS!!!!

don't take any of this personally, because nothing is directed at you, just meant to be critical to your thought process and to figure out why you're coming to the conclusions you've drawn out in your post...so that we may further ourselves as a community of users, and possibly provide worthwhile feedback to RIM to improve the device we all own.
[/QUOTE]

It's all good. Also, have to remember that the letter was to show emotion that I'm just wanting communication and their best effort to produce a product they advertised.

[patches152]

honestly if you wrote the letter the way you responded to my questions, without emotion or bias, it would have gone/will go farther...just my experience from working for VZW...

[jwacton]

How would you right the letter? From your response, this seems to indicate you agree some manner or way, but would just do it differently.

Also, Verizon has always been a corporation for when I used my approach, they have agreed to compensate me in an appropriate customer service manner.

Last, and on a totally different point, this thread was intended to have others that agree with the viewpoint for uniting and communicating as a community. What I don't appreciate (this isn't you patches because your debating on my points), but my letter was to show the support of the originators thread topic.

What I don't appreciate is others that choose to post with such replies as.
pics
Get a life, it won't ever happen
Flame on!

Anything that is aimed to disagree with the thread. Fine with non agreement, but people in the forums become afraid to post because someone can't put out a call for support, and more of the time they get slammed.

[patches152]

roger...flame productively, copy that

[cbuck]

You're right, another troll has come out to play. As bigman says, Grow Up people. Inciting hatred and mailbombing VZW will do nothing for any real or imagined problems.

+1, agreed. No matter how much we decide to b**ch, it is not going to expedite a solution. VZW is aware of the issue, one of my best friends works at the largest corporate store in Syracuse, and he gets communications all the time from his big wigs on the issues at hand. They are sympathetic, but VZW really has their hands tied trying to find their own gold code out of the selection of OSs RIM has provided for the current Storm customers. They know we are picky with our devices because we are all uber nerds (myself included). From my understanding, VZW is really making their best efforts to make an upgrade available that will COMPLETELY fix the issues with the Storm. I also at one time was a salesman for VZW. With the phones that have a VZW OS (dumbphones) it�s easy for them to get a patch. It�s like trying to tell Hewlett Packard to make Windows Vista better. It just isn�t the source of the problem.

[Morf32]

+1, agreed. No matter how much we decide to b**ch, it is not going to expedite a solution. VZW is aware of the issue, one of my best friends works at the largest corporate store in Syracuse, and he gets communications all the time from his big wigs on the issues at hand. They are sympathetic, but VZW really has their hands tied trying to find their own gold code out of the selection of OSs RIM has provided for the current Storm customers. They know we are picky with our devices because we are all uber nerds (myself included). From my understanding, VZW is really making their best efforts to make an upgrade available that will COMPLETELY fix the issues with the Storm. I also at one time was a salesman for VZW. With the phones that have a VZW OS (dumbphones) it�s easy for them to get a patch. It�s like trying to tell Hewlett Packard to make Windows Vista better. It just isn�t the source of the problem.

Extremely off-topic, but it's great to see a Syracuse, New Yorker here!

[BigBCP97]

I have had the same storm since the day they came out... Upgraded OS from .65 to .75 all the way up to .132...

Never replaced, never had problems with the screen... The OS is not perfect, but it is not bad... It works. The web works, E-mail is fast, the programs a smartphone needs and uses work FINE...

I am amazed how many people complain... Customers, and people here..

But I will tell you this, in the hands of someone who knows how to USE the phone, not just fill it with meaningless Apps, it is a brilliant device...

[JMHernandez]

I have had the same storm since the day they came out... Upgraded OS from .65 to .75 all the way up to .132...

Never replaced, never had problems with the screen... The OS is not perfect, but it is not bad... It works. The web works, E-mail is fast, the programs a smartphone needs and uses work FINE...

I am amazed how many people complain... Customers, and people here..

But I will tell you this, in the hands of someone who knows how to USE the phone, not just fill it with meaningless Apps, it is a brilliant device...

High 5 BigBCP! This phone is not PERFECT. And with it being first gen, it should have never been expected to be.
It is an overall great device, that will undoutibly get better in time. Like Big said ; FOR THOSE WHO KNOW HOW TO USE THE PHONE.