05-27-10 05:21 PM
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  1. Krypto's Avatar
    I should add, unfortunately for 8330 owners, I'd be surprised if we saw official upgrades to 5.0. And maybe that is one of the devices where development and testing ended (as Civic suggested in her first post). And I'd also expect that development for the Storm, Bold 9000, Tour 9630, and Curve 8900 is slowing and we're likely only going to see updates related to network changes or for security reasons (e.g. due to something like the browser vulnerability that was discussed before). Critical bugs will get fixed, but that'll be up to carriers to release them.

    The reason for so many problems with this upgrade process has to do with the carriers. Perhaps they should be dumping this back on RIM like they do for their other devices (e.g. HTC, Samsung, Motorola, etc.). At least like that, RIM would have better control over what gets released and what doesn't and would have to become more responsible for what does get released.
    Last edited by Krypto; 01-19-10 at 08:40 PM.
    01-19-10 08:30 PM
  2. The_Engine's Avatar
    Amen Krypto. Amen...
    01-19-10 08:32 PM
  3. gtstang462002's Avatar
    I should add, unfortunately for 8330 owners, I'd be surprised if we saw official upgrades to 5.0. And maybe that is one of the devices where development and testing ended (as Civic suggested in her first post). And I'd also expect that development for the Storm, Bold 9000, Tour 9630, and Curve 8900 is slowing and we're likely only going to see updates related to network changes or for security reasons (e.g. due to something like the browser vulnerability that was discussed before). Critical bugs will get fixed, but that'll be up to carriers to release them.

    The reason for so many problems with this upgrade process has to do with the carriers. Perhaps they should be dumping this back on RIM like they do for their other devices (e.g. HTC, Samsung, Motorola, etc.). At least like that, RIM would have better control over what gets released and what doesn't and would have to become more responsible for what does get released.
    I had 5.0 on an 8330. It ran pretty damn good at that and still had 20 some MB of memory free on boot.
    01-19-10 08:47 PM
  4. Krypto's Avatar
    I had 5.0 on an 8330. It ran pretty damn good at that and still had 20 some MB of memory free on boot.
    I don't doubt that. But if one device will be left behind, alas, I'm guessing it'll be the 8330. Which would be unfortunate if that does happen.
    01-19-10 08:51 PM
  5. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Civic - you always talk about active sync. Am I wrong or isn't that an additional software package that his company has to buy and support? As I understand it, and I may well be wrong, EAS costs about as much as BES and is only worth it if you are on exchange 07.

    My point is that he should confirm what his corporate exchange has/supports as far as mobile connectivity. Without EAS the I Phone will as useless as his storm as far as exchange is concerned.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    No, it's not extra. If they have Windows Server 2003 or higher with Exchange 2003 or higher, ActiveSync capabilities work out of the box and are already part of ActiveDirectory/Exchange install. All you have to add is the Administrative portal for ActiveSync, but that's free as well.

    This is why I like it better. You don't have to pay extra for licensing or the software at all. If you have an ActiveSync capable phone, it's wireless sync for EVERYTHING in the user's mailbox and navigation on the handsets is easier then BES attached BBs are. Of course all of this is my opinion, but others agree as well.
    01-19-10 09:55 PM
  6. Rider-on-the-storm's Avatar
    So when will we see android on a BB?












    :-0
    01-20-10 07:54 AM
  7. The_Engine's Avatar
    No, it's not extra. If they have Windows Server 2003 or higher with Exchange 2003 or higher, ActiveSync capabilities work out of the box and are already part of ActiveDirectory/Exchange install. All you have to add is the Administrative portal for ActiveSync, but that's free as well.

    This is why I like it better. You don't have to pay extra for licensing or the software at all. If you have an ActiveSync capable phone, it's wireless sync for EVERYTHING in the user's mailbox and navigation on the handsets is easier then BES attached BBs are. Of course all of this is my opinion, but others agree as well.
    Thanks Civic. Seems I was miss informed or mis understood. I'll have to talk to my admins as that would open up possibilities of VZW I Phone or Nexus one, or other device in the fall.
    01-20-10 08:15 AM
  8. br0nx finest's Avatar
    512MB models? You mean there's going to be a Bold3, Tour3, Storm3 coming out by the end of this year? It's to be expected eventually, but this is insane.

    Can it, RIM. Build a phone that works and get your software in shape. This is embarrassing and I wonder how many RETAINED customers you will have...many move to the BB and become addicted...then they see there are silly limitations -

    A 2MB app is huge. Battery pulls and memory loss. ****tiest browser on smartphones today. And YET -

    they keep pumping out hardware upgrades. Don't you think the consumer users are more likely to move to Android or a possible Verizon iPhone when they realize how unreliable BB's have become?

    I thought upgrading everyone to trackpads, WiFi, increased memory and 5.0 would be enough for a little while. Look like they want to keep confusing everyone with 9730s, 9750s, 9800s, and so on. And they don't LISTEN because things are going so well with new converts to smartphones who don't get it..
    I don't know if anyone replied to you, but yearly RIM does come out with new phones (so does any other Phone manufacturer that would like to stay relevant, and out of the extinction watch) so if they release both a Bold3, Tour3, Storm3 it wouldn't be unlike themselves.

    The longest phones I've seen around were the original Curve (8300/10/20/30), and the original Bold (9000) but the Storms came out yearly, and it looks like the Tour will too.

    I don't find it to be a problem, because they are constantly improving, and making each device a bit more capable. None of my BlackBerries have ever been "unreliable" as you say, the Storms (I've had a couple) have been glitchy but they've pretty much always worked (with the exception of 1) and I've had 9 BlackBerries over the past 5 years.

    I do like Android, and the Nexus One, but until it comes out for VZW, I'll like it but never switch. And even then, it's questionable, as my Storm1 does all I need, and I'm sure later this year the Storm3 will be top!
    01-20-10 08:26 AM
  9. mudpud's Avatar
    Good luck browsing the web with Storm 3. By then plus a couple of OS updates later RIM's pathetic Java based interface will look like a museum sample compared to iPhone 4G.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-20-10 10:38 AM
  10. mudpud's Avatar
    No, it's not extra. If they have Windows Server 2003 or higher with Exchange 2003 or higher, ActiveSync capabilities work out of the box and are already part of ActiveDirectory/Exchange install. All you have to add is the Administrative portal for ActiveSync, but that's free as well.

    This is why I like it better. You don't have to pay extra for licensing or the software at all. If you have an ActiveSync capable phone, it's wireless sync for EVERYTHING in the user's mailbox and navigation on the handsets is easier then BES attached BBs are. Of course all of this is my opinion, but others agree as well.
    I had no idea. I'm really looking forward to Q3 2010 and my spanking new iPhone 4G that DOES email better than any BIS BlackBerry.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-20-10 10:41 AM
  11. Drdoom23's Avatar
    Damn apple fan boys,anyways we all knew this was coming at least I did I own a bold and the storm I expect nothing less from RIM they are slackin and I hope the fix it with the suposed new devices maybe that magnum will finally show its face

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-20-10 12:52 PM
  12. greasyginzo's Avatar
    that sucks...
    01-20-10 12:55 PM
  13. madisonjar's Avatar
    I have some bad news for anyone hoping to see a lot more development for OS5.0 for the Storm or any other device with 128MB of Flash or less. Development for OS5.0 for 9630 and below models (128MB or less memory) has pretty much come to a crawl. There are several issues that remain on these OS versions and RIM has decided to move onto the next OS versions which are to support 256MB and higher memory devices. Their new OS development is concentrating on 512MB device models still due to be released in the near future and devices with less then this about will be treated much like current 64MB models have been when it came to OS4.5 or higher support. 128MB memory models will not run the new OS being designed for the newer 512MB hardware, only 256MB and OpenGL models will support it, but at some performance loss compared to the newer models still due to hit market.

    The carriers have also pretty much come to a standstill on certifying any new 5.0 OS versions for some of their existing models. Their hopes are to move onto newer devices. Verizon wants to certify OS5.x for the current Tour 9630, but is having second thoughts because the 9650 is almost here with improved hardware/memory. Most likely, they'll leave the 9630 in the dust or release just one 5.0 build (higher then 5.0.0.40x) right before the 9650 hits market. After that, no other current handset will see anything major in terms of OS improvements or releases until the new OS versions surface with the introduction of 512MB memory models and with the introduction of the new browser/widget capabilities.

    Sorry, but that's the way it's going to be... I hate it too.
    doesnt the tour have 256 MB of ram? I didnt read through this whole thread, but I am confused as I keep reading that it does have 256 of ram, just not the opengl support (which I think the curve 2 has correct?) thanks.
    01-20-10 01:02 PM
  14. BlackCRX's Avatar
    I had no idea. I'm really looking forward to Q3 2010 and my spanking new iPhone 4G that DOES email better than any BIS BlackBerry.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Actually I believe the 4G Iphone is due for release in Q2 from what I have read. But I did not read anything regarding the BIS email being better than BB. Do you have a link or something for me to read?
    Last edited by BlackCRX; 01-20-10 at 01:38 PM.
    01-20-10 01:32 PM
  15. mudpud's Avatar
    Actually I believe the 4G Iphone is due for release in Q2 from what I have read. But I did not read anything regarding the BIS email being better than BB. Do you have a link or something for me to read?
    What I was trying to say is that my BIS service with VZ, and anyone else's is total crap. The fact that RIM prides itself in being the best messaging/calendar integration platform makes their Blackberry Internet Service (BIS) even more ridiculous. Until I got the Storm, I had messages routed to different folders on my Microsoft Exchange account with my school. Since I've gotten the Storm, the IT folks told me that there is no way that I can read those messages in my Storm Inbox - the only way to do this would be with the severely crippling Blackberry Enterprise Server (BES) service, not to mention paying the extra $15 per month. So I had change ALL my rules to not just move the message but COPY and MOVE. Do you know how many extra emails I forget to erase because of this bull****? And then there are those emails who I mistakenly erase because I thought that they were on a rule but they really weren't.

    Point 2: Calendar syncing. Wireless calendar syncing over BIS = NONEXISTENT. RIM's suggestion: hook up my phone to my computer frequently. Are they kidding????? Or get BES. Yeah right. My solution? Google Sync. But what do I need Google's calendar for this simple solution?



    Can't wait for that iPhone.
    01-20-10 02:14 PM
  16. sivan's Avatar
    What I was trying to say is that my BIS service with VZ, and anyone else's is total crap. The fact that RIM prides itself in being the best messaging/calendar integration platform makes their Blackberry Internet Service (BIS) even more ridiculous. Until I got the Storm, I had messages routed to different folders on my Microsoft Exchange account with my school. Since I've gotten the Storm, the IT folks told me that there is no way that I can read those messages in my Storm Inbox - the only way to do this would be with the severely crippling Blackberry Enterprise Server (BES) service, not to mention paying the extra $15 per month. So I had change ALL my rules to not just move the message but COPY and MOVE. Do you know how many extra emails I forget to erase because of this bull****? And then there are those emails who I mistakenly erase because I thought that they were on a rule but they really weren't.

    Point 2: Calendar syncing. Wireless calendar syncing over BIS = NONEXISTENT. RIM's suggestion: hook up my phone to my computer frequently. Are they kidding????? Or get BES. Yeah right. My solution? Google Sync. But what do I need Google's calendar for this simple solution?



    Can't wait for that iPhone.
    There's a reason why this is routed through BIS and not ActiveSync on the device. It saves battery power with BIS doing the polling instead of the device.

    RIM announced Gmail calendar sync will be added to BIS in the first half of 2010.

    I have to say though that I don't want to use Gmail and would prefer some low cost BIS/BES solution that does work with hosted Exchange. There should be a middle ground solution for an individual that doesn't need enterprise features and can connect to hosted Exchange for about $5. Right now it's usually $10 for BES and another $5 for a mailbox with most providers, while iPhone, Android or Palm devices can connect directly to Exchange for $3-5.
    01-20-10 02:44 PM
  17. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    doesnt the tour have 256 MB of ram? I didnt read through this whole thread, but I am confused as I keep reading that it does have 256 of ram, just not the opengl support (which I think the curve 2 has correct?) thanks.
    Yes, you are correct... the issue is the OpenGL problem. Perhaps I should have worded that better. The principal here is that the Tour2 (wifi and touchpad one) will do OpenGL like the S2 does, so those models will become the ones supported within the lower memory range of the upcoming OS versions that will require a bit more crack to run.
    01-20-10 04:32 PM
  18. Smoke N Crack's Avatar
    i thought i had seen on BGR or Engadget that the prototype IPHONE for verizon will have a much smaller screen than the current version? anyone else read that or see it anywhere??
    01-20-10 04:44 PM
  19. sivan's Avatar
    Who give a isht what Google calendar will do for the BB platform? I don't, and neither do users that use Exchange at work but don't want to or don't have the use of BES within that same organization due to added costs that IT/Management doesn't want to deal with. For those people, ANY phone that does ActiveSync will work better then a BB on BIS (OWA conduits) to get their email. For THOSE people, ActiveSync (at no additional cost of licensing or installing software) will get them full mailbox wireless sync, whereas BIS can't do it to save its life. Not only that, but they'll also receive ALL of their email in ENTIRETY, as apposed to the truncated and poorly HTML rendered email that ANY (BES OR BIS) Blackberry email solution brings to the BB platform.

    Either way you look at it, RIM's behind on email support. Yes, I said it... they are behind.

    They're behind on quicker pushes for BIS users.
    They are behind in HTML rendering.
    They are behind on mailbox navigation within the BB UI on ALL units.

    They need to stop tooting their horn and start fixing these issues if they want to continue to sell koolaid with no ice.
    Well, I agree that having direct access to Exchange is important.

    But we need to agree on what this means.

    Technically, ActiveSync means the device does all the polling and it might poll more than one Exchange server. Letting the device do this work will impact battery life.

    We are going to see more and more of these issues as users expect their device to work with real time services. RIM is right to have BIS handle the polling of all services and push to the device. But it's hard to justify the costs for consumer-type or casual users that don't need the elaborate enterprise features of BES.
    01-20-10 05:57 PM
  20. The_Engine's Avatar
    Who give a isht what Google calendar will do for the BB platform? I don't, and neither do users that use Exchange at work but don't want to or don't have the use of BES within that same organization due to added costs that IT/Management doesn't want to deal with. For those people, ANY phone that does ActiveSync will work better then a BB on BIS (OWA conduits) to get their email. For THOSE people, ActiveSync (at no additional cost of licensing or installing software) will get them full mailbox wireless sync, whereas BIS can't do it to save its life. Not only that, but they'll also receive ALL of their email in ENTIRETY, as apposed to the truncated and poorly HTML rendered email that ANY (BES OR BIS) Blackberry email solution brings to the BB platform.

    Either way you look at it, RIM's behind on email support. Yes, I said it... they are behind.

    They're behind on quicker pushes for BIS users.
    They are behind in HTML rendering.
    They are behind on mailbox navigation within the BB UI on ALL units.

    They need to stop tooting their horn and start fixing these issues if they want to continue to sell koolaid with no ice.
    I have to say that running on BES I have full access to all levels of exchange, including task integration, and folder access. We didn't set it up but I know I could also have access to my fileshares as well.

    On that front I don't see another solution that offers the same. Also I think the key for BES is centralized admin of the device itself. Active sync will get your email, contacts etc, but it won't protect the corporate infrastructure from someone hacking into the mobile device and then bridging across to the exchange server. Not to mention viruses and whatever is possible. Via BES a security conscious admin can lock down their fleet of bb's to ensure proper security.

    Of course those features are a plus for some, but I think this discussion is more about smaller organisations or individuals who use exchange. Which brings us back to researching your devices and platforms and making the right decision for you.

    Civic - why do you have a BB? Sounds like your work doesn't use BES but has exchange. Why not a WinMo device or now android? Or is that where you are going now that VZW will be packing I Phones, palms, droids and berry's within a few months?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-20-10 05:59 PM
  21. madisonjar's Avatar
    Yes, you are correct... the issue is the OpenGL problem. Perhaps I should have worded that better. The principal here is that the Tour2 (wifi and touchpad one) will do OpenGL like the S2 does, so those models will become the ones supported within the lower memory range of the upcoming OS versions that will require a bit more crack to run.
    nope your good, thought I was going crazy.
    01-20-10 06:53 PM
  22. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Well, I agree that having direct access to Exchange is important.

    But we need to agree on what this means.

    Technically, ActiveSync means the device does all the polling and it might poll more than one Exchange server. Letting the device do this work will impact battery life.

    We are going to see more and more of these issues as users expect their device to work with real time services. RIM is right to have BIS handle the polling of all services and push to the device. But it's hard to justify the costs for consumer-type or casual users that don't need the elaborate enterprise features of BES.
    ActiveSync doesn't poll the Exchange server. The system is a complete Push system, but the device does issue a small keepalive heartbeat to the server sometimes. In the end, it's not that big of a deal in modern devices. Even old Palm Treos didn't have a lot of battery killing happening when activated with ActiveSync.

    I have to say that running on BES I have full access to all levels of exchange, including task integration, and folder access. We didn't set it up but I know I could also have access to my fileshares as well.

    On that front I don't see another solution that offers the same. Also I think the key for BES is centralized admin of the device itself. Active sync will get your email, contacts etc, but it won't protect the corporate infrastructure from someone hacking into the mobile device and then bridging across to the exchange server. Not to mention viruses and whatever is possible. Via BES a security conscious admin can lock down their fleet of bb's to ensure proper security.

    Of course those features are a plus for some, but I think this discussion is more about smaller organisations or individuals who use exchange. Which brings us back to researching your devices and platforms and making the right decision for you.

    Civic - why do you have a BB? Sounds like your work doesn't use BES but has exchange. Why not a WinMo device or now android? Or is that where you are going now that VZW will be packing I Phones, palms, droids and berry's within a few months?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Actually, my own personal work company does house a BES server.

    The "security" aspect of the BB is a valid one, but saying that any device with ActiveSync connected to an Exchange server is an open door to viruses or hacks is wrong. Also, while a BB on BES has access to the mailbox filing contents, navigation is a pain in the azz.

    Overall, there are positives and negatives on the tech side of both technologies, but where ActiveSync wins hands down is "price vs performance". But hey, you don't have to agree with me.




    Oh and one last thing... no matter what device I end up moving to when the time comes for me, I'll still be just as passionate about writing about that platform and continue to be part of the BB community and writing about BBs too. If I end up with an Android device, I won't be leaving CB just because of that, actually, chances are good the Android section will probably go up in posts. Bottom line is, I don't write on this forum because I hate the BB platform or because I just so happen to use a BB, I write on it because there's a lot of people on here I like to talk to and out of all the BB communities, CB was one that became my home, while others just seemed... "too high and mighty"... well, look where they are now.

    Anyway, there is room for improvement and the community is here to help give RIM consumer level feedback in hopes of improving things. Sure, I'll get passionate about things sometimes, but damn... how many 2nd chances can you give a company until they can get something right... I think 600+ chances (i.e. 5.0 OS builds) is more then enough. Know what I mean?...
    01-20-10 10:14 PM
  23. EnergyPlus's Avatar
    ::: whew ::: Fascinating, Civic! This thread went over my head a couple of days ago, but thus far in the past year, it is the only thread that has kept me returning several times a day, every day, I've learned something (or at least, have an awareness of it now) and enjoyed the good exchanges. Thanks, everyone.
    01-20-10 11:50 PM
  24. madisonjar's Avatar
    Yes, you are correct... the issue is the OpenGL problem. Perhaps I should have worded that better. The principal here is that the Tour2 (wifi and touchpad one) will do OpenGL like the S2 does, so those models will become the ones supported within the lower memory range of the upcoming OS versions that will require a bit more crack to run.
    whats weird is the tour should support opengl as it has the same chipset as thecurve 2 which is a nice phone, but lets be honest its entry level. I am hoping it does as I dont have the money right now for a storm 2..
    01-21-10 11:46 AM
  25. Krypto's Avatar
    Hmm, interesting update on a previous comment I made... while there is no info if current carriers will update the 8330 to OS 5.0, looks like Boost Mobile is shipping the 8330 with OS version 5.0.0.438.

    Boost Mobile Shipping BlackBerry Curve 8330 With OS 5.0.0.438 | BerryReview.com
    01-21-10 03:06 PM
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