05-27-10 05:21 PM
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  1. Rooster99's Avatar
    Basically this arguement comes down to YOUR preference....YOUR use of the phone...YOUR needs....

    There are a ton of phones out there that can do what YOU want out of your phone.

    Sooooo.....What would be the gameplan for you????

    Simple...If your shoes have holes in them and your feet are getting wet....you buy new shoes!

    You should go shopping now.

    Stop moaning.
    Would you pi&& off???

    Everyone gets we could all buy any phone we want. So quit repeating yourself, ok? We've heard you.

    This is a discussion, a debate about the implications of certain suppositions. This is the method intelligent and reasonable people use to explore options and situations in theory, before committing to action. It's called sharing ideas. And please note the "s" on the end of "ideas" - that's plural. As in more than one.

    Your non-plural idea is simple, and we get it. Now quit taking space away from those with more nuanced arguments. I for one am very interested.

    - R.
    01-13-10 07:57 PM
  2. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Wow. Just goes to show how passionate we all are about our crackberry's.

    Here is a simple formula...

    Web/apps > I phone
    Messaging/enterprise support/security > blackberry
    Little bit of both > google

    There is something for everyone. Each platform does just about everything but the above speaks to what they excel at. Google seems to be in middle but more towards I phone then BB. Know yourself and choose wisely.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Actually, all things being equal, the iPhone is technically better for Business Enterprise (Exchange with ActiveSync) then the Android phones currently are. The iPhone supports a larger variaty of ActiveSync security policies that Android doesn't just yet.

    Not arguing, just wanted to point that out for info sake.
    01-13-10 08:37 PM
  3. dcsr23's Avatar
    JR, I'm not sure if you have insider knowledge as I'm still new to crackberry and BB phones in general, but from what you can see with the upcoming devices would it be somewhat safe to say that these new devices will have OS's built from the ground up, or are just gonna stop seeing development cease on handhelds that are considered too weak. I'm just afraid that with all the people complaining about the same old OS that we are going to just see newer hardware with the same buggy OS, meaning it was never fixed, and that there is no need to streamline and be efficient with code because of the so called 512mb of app space, (allowing more room for screw up).
    01-14-10 12:23 AM
  4. Techark's Avatar
    If you need a enterprise phone and want Android you might want to wait a few months for the N2, Google has already said the next one out of the box for them will be aimed squarely at RIM and the enterprise market.

    The big thing with RIM is the lack of usable mem on the phones.
    There really is no reason not to open it up to SD card storage forrunning of apps direct. That would open the device itself up to new 3rd party apps and give it a chance to catch up in apps. Developers do not want to spend half their time slimming down code to make it fit in as small of space as possible, they want to code get it good enough to work and move on to the next project so they can make more money.

    I personally am looking at the Nokia N900, it seems to have what I need in a phone, more of net device than a phone. Linux OS, full firefox type browser with flash, just about anything you can do on your laptop it can do only it also has a phone. All be it a slimmed down phone. For me I use my phone more for data and emails, I make every few phone calls.
    Unless the N2 pops and has everything I need then the N900 will be my next phone, no more BB's thank you.
    01-14-10 12:42 AM
  5. mudpud's Avatar
    Exactly why I am definitely going on to the Iphone 3Gs . My wife has one and she. Can go through

    6 pages no her browser before I can load the first. I honestly thought I would be happy with my new
    Storm. But watching her on that Iphone...... I feel embarrassed loading my weak browser.

    I keep hearing the major benefit of a BERRY is the instant email...... The Iphone 3Gs has at most a
    15min delay.... Wow do we really need that email this second?. And honestly at the sacrifice of
    everything else we should expect for our smartphone.

    Sorry RIM but the lack of development has cost you a one time loyal BB user.



    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I completely agree. I don't need INSTANT email either. Can't wait for iPhone in Verizon this Dunn

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-14-10 12:53 AM
  6. Mr.Monty's Avatar
    I'm surprised more Tour users haven't stumbled into this thread. Don't worry, my lips are sealed. :P
    It really sucks that after owning the phone for 5 months (bought 1 month after release) it is now considered obsolete. With the same model no less. (9650). I knew that it would inevitably become "out-dated" but I was not expecting that to be so soon.

    I really hope RIM releases some smartphones with more than 512MB on them. I understand that a gig is more than a phone may need now, but I hate seeing an out-dated product 6 months down the road.

    For the argument about getting a new phone: The Tour DOES work for me...now. But I need a phone that is researched and designed enough for 2 years use. RIM is running with a 6 month phone for a 2 year contract. It's like buying a 10 pack of hotdogs and 8 pack of buns.

    And since the phone/car comparison is so popular: It's like buying a 2010 Corvette, then 5 months later having Chevy release a more efficient Corvette2 with the exact same specs + 5mpg. It's not a big upgrade, but would have been better if it was just released once, as the 2010 Corvette.
    01-14-10 01:40 AM
  7. dchawk81's Avatar
    I only need one OS 5.0 at this point:

    One that gives me my frickin' streaming video back!

    Aside from that, I really only went with BB for the push email. Let's face it, pretty much every other leading smart phone available today wipes the floor with the BlackBerry in most other aspects.

    For me, push email is top importance. Everything else (yeah, even that streaming video) is bonus. I could, in hindsight, deal with a polling system for email too. However, when I was using LogicMail on my old Pearl, that polling chewed through batteries like mad. I was changing 'em out 2-3 and sometimes 4 times a day.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-14-10 02:26 AM
  8. littlegreenmen's Avatar
    Honestly if VZW gets the Nexus and happens to get a jesus phone 4G its going to be interesting. They will have a droid, the N1, Storm 2 and maybe Storm 3 by years end actually and then the iphone. I wont say they will put ATT out of business because we know that wont happen but VZW will take a part of their business for sure. The industry could see some interesting things happen.
    If all that plays out you can kiss the S3 goodbye. Barring a OS miracle, S3 and S2 will dissapear. No way the storm series can take on the Iphone and nexus on verizon. BB itself will be fine with all their other models and yes AT&T will take a huge hit.
    01-14-10 03:37 AM
  9. The_Engine's Avatar
    If all that plays out you can kiss the S3 goodbye. Barring a OS miracle, S3 and S2 will dissapear. No way the storm series can take on the Iphone and nexus on verizon. BB itself will be fine with all their other models and yes AT&T will take a huge hit.
    So far the S3 has one thing the others don't. 4G. Of course we have no idea what apple will do when AT&T contract ends, but an LTE I Phone would be portable across most carriers by 2011/2012.

    Of course that is IF AT&T figures out that they need to upgrade asap. We know VZW will be in 30-40 markets across the nation by end of 2010, so the other American carriers need to get rolling or even the IPhone won't save them.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-14-10 06:46 AM
  10. Leafan's Avatar
    Just for the record.... I Am a contractor and 99% of my business comes from. Posting
    Adds And replying to emails in a timely fashion . If I miss an email I stand to lOse $20000
    Or. More. ...... Now with that said I still think I could wait 15min for an email.

    I should also point out that my berry is not A flashlight nor have I installed the entire "app world
    ". But in this day and age of sociAl media... I must be in tune with it. I have to have Facebook and Twitter
    Available ..... I do not have any games on my berry.


    It also must be noted again that when I am standing with a client who is requesting some information
    That I have in a memo on my berry and the damn thing freezes... And I have to say sorry but you
    Are going to have to wait I need to pull my battery..... It embarrassing .

    When it comes to loyalty .... You are preaching to the choir .... I am a Canadian and love that
    RIM is a Canadian company. But I recently had a problem with my phone and RIM did nothing
    To help. If it wasn't for all the good people here on crackberry I would not even be using my Storm

    Don't get me wrong .... I am not running out and buying a new phone today.... And I am
    Holding out hope that when I am ready RIM will have gotten their act together..... Cause I am a BB guy at heart

    Sorry bud....I breed Pitbulls. back when i first started out I didnt have a Blackberry. there were numerous times I would arrive home after work, check my email, and find emails from people looking to buy requesting pictures or info or whatsoever. I call them back and "oh its ok I found another breeder and im already going with them.

    So YES I absolutely MUST be able to recieve my emails on the go. And instantly. In 15 minutes I personally can do a Google search and find a million and one OTHER breeders.

    I personally loose 3500-5000 each time I lose a sale. Now think about corporate and make those figures in the millions.

    Business.....or Personal.... Dont buy a phone directed towards business use if you plan on using it for more than that. Would you go out and buy big winter boots to go to the beach. Everything has its purpose and use. Stop following trends and figure out what works best for YOU. Its your money...spend it wisely. Be a smart consumer.

    How can you blame RIM for making a phone with low App memory? Is it RIM's fault that you bought it and decided to try and load the whole app world onto it? lol I mean seriously. The specs are on the friggin box!!!

    Do your research people before you make purchases. Its not hard to find out if something isnt for you BEFORE you waste money on it....just do your research first
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-14-10 07:19 AM
  11. jlsparks's Avatar
    If all that plays out you can kiss the S3 goodbye. Barring a OS miracle, S3 and S2 will dissapear. No way the storm series can take on the Iphone and nexus on verizon. BB itself will be fine with all their other models and yes AT&T will take a huge hit.
    RIM has a profitable existing TS market with the Storm, and look to gain on that momentum. I don't see any possibility whatsoever that they would just fold their TS line. When have they shied from competition in the past? There were already three iterations of the iPhone when the S1 was released, so it seems pretty clear to me that they are going to proceed with their device lineup the way they deem appropriate. No more TS from RIM? Highly, highly doubtful IMO.

    Don't forget: the US isn't RIM's only market; they sell devices on practically every major carrier in practically every country. If they take a couple percentage point hit in US TS share (which is a pretty big assumption), they can easily make that us in global sales, and then some.
    01-14-10 07:22 AM
  12. jlsparks's Avatar
    Not really EOL, think of it more like "meh, you got a good enough OS, deal with it and if you don't like it get something else.." type deal.

    Also, those speaking of the S1 having issues and thinking the S2 is safe from this are not correct. The S2 software has the same app bugs that the S1 software has. Just wanted to point that out... Really, even the 9630 had software issues on release OS and then some. Ever since Jim came out and said "It's ok to release subpar phone software, it's to be expected in today's world" it's been nothing short of crap out of RIM. Really, it was happening before that (you could see it in OS4.5 for the 8xxx device line), but the isht really hit an all time low when the 9xxx lines hit production. lol
    Not disagreeing that .428 doesn't have bugs. But. Most of them fly so far below the radar they fit into the categories of negligible or, even, nitpicking. Maybe I'm just accustomed to these "bugs", but even as a very heavy user I can honestly say that I don't have any problems with my S2 that impede my device's ability to send/receive mail, place/receive calls, text, BBM, check current news, get the weather, use social networking apps (SS and FB), etc. Does it take 3-5 seconds from call disconnect to return to the home screen? Yes. Do I give a ****? No. Does it run garbage collection flawlessly? No. Do I give a ****? No. Why? Because with every app and theme I need/want loaded up, I still hold at over 125MB free app memory.

    Anyway, bugs yes. Make a difference to me? No. That's all.
    01-14-10 07:33 AM
  13. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Not disagreeing that .428 doesn't have bugs. But. Most of them fly so far below the radar they fit into the categories of negligible or, even, nitpicking. Maybe I'm just accustomed to these "bugs", but even as a very heavy user I can honestly say that I don't have any problems with my S2 that impede my device's ability to send/receive mail, place/receive calls, text, BBM, check current news, get the weather, use social networking apps (SS and FB), etc. Does it take 3-5 seconds from call disconnect to return to the home screen? Yes. Do I give a ****? No. Does it run garbage collection flawlessly? No. Do I give a ****? No. Why? Because with every app and theme I need/want loaded up, I still hold at over 125MB free app memory.

    Anyway, bugs yes. Make a difference to me? No. That's all.
    I think you nailed it with this post. The key difference with other smartphones is that they don't have these kinds of issues with their OSs. Sure, they aren't perfect either, but when you push out and certify an OS that has a messed up primary icon (which BTW, you couldn't have fracking missed if you tested the OS with default settings as it's the first icon in the default 2 row home screen orientation), that says something about your company and your incompetence. You can argue all you want that it doesn't cause any functionality issues (and it mostly doesn't unless you call unable to read the icon caption a functionality issue - which I do depending on what icon is there), but it just looks NASTY! I don't see an iPhone, Pre, NexusOne having any of these kinds of issues. Bugs with other phones are more "functionality" bugs. Bugs in other phones are what I consider "more traditional" type of bugs and issues. RIM's bugs/issues are a bit on the "I can't exactly comprehend why they'd have this problem so deep in the game"... must be a Canadian thing.


    Bottom line... these are noob mistakes. I can see where you're going to fumble the ball if you're working your *** off compiling 5 or more builds a day and not really testing everything completely, but second level testing should dial back that overhead and NOT post anything up for the carriers to use unless it's damn near perfected. You can't just slap together some bullisht build and push it out a couple of days before the S2 releases because you want to secure that no one with an S1 will demand an S2 because of lack of OS support and other issues.
    Last edited by JRSCCivic98; 01-14-10 at 08:45 AM.
    01-14-10 08:42 AM
  14. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    Oh man, I don't know where to even start..... First let me say that I will agree some things need to be changed. I will also say some things work very well and other mobile platforms try their arse off to imitate and still can't get it. I think people need to sit back and decide what it is they need their mobile device to do for them, and choose accordingly.
    Let me next say that there are bugs in all software. Please don't sit here and tell me the Droid and Nexus One don't have software issues. I will show many from both. I'm not excusing bug within BlackBerry software, but I'll be damned if RIM is the only one. And with the two models mentioned it is the manufacturer not the carrier like with BlackBerry software, that releases firmware for these devices.

    I can't say what I want/need to say in this thread for a variety of reasons. And again I'm not saying everything is great with BlackBerry, but let's not act like it's all roses on the other side when it's definitely not. Good discussion though.
    01-14-10 09:19 AM
  15. littlegreenmen's Avatar
    Oh man, I don't know where to even start..... First let me say that I will agree some things need to be changed. I will also say some things work very well and other mobile platforms try their arse off to imitate and still can't get it. I think people need to sit back and decide what it is they need their mobile device to do for them, and choose accordingly.
    Let me next say that there are bugs in all software. Please don't sit here and tell me the Droid and Nexus One don't have software issues. I will show many from both. I'm not excusing bug within BlackBerry software, but I'll be damned if RIM is the only one. And with the two models mentioned it is the manufacturer not the carrier like with BlackBerry software, that releases firmware for these devices.

    I can't say what I want/need to say in this thread for a variety of reasons. And again I'm not saying everything is great with BlackBerry, but let's not act like it's all roses on the other side when it's definitely not. Good discussion though.
    I agree that nothing is perfect. My biggest gripe with the storm now is that after a year of it being out the only real improvement ive seen to the device is that now the OS is usable. Has 5.0 made a difference for the storm? Yes of course it has but it still doesnt hide how bad the OS still is, thats still very apparent. Would be nice to see what you have to write on the matter but i understand about your hands being tied, thats cool.
    01-14-10 10:47 AM
  16. f-castrillo's Avatar
    RIM definitely needs to work on making their platform/UI more accessible to average Joe and 3rd party app developers. I know their excel among enterprise customers, but now that they've got the regular consumers hooked, they need ensure their devices will satisfy them too.

    I wonder if RIM is developing a "from-the-ground-up" touchscreen OS separate from the trackpad OSes. If they aren't, maybe they should. In the past, taking a trackpad OS and tacking on touchscreen functionality fared horribly - it's taken this long for RIM to get a trackpad OS to run properly on their touchscreen device. I think future Storm iterations (or other touchscreen devices) would benefit from having their own standalone OS development.

    Of course, that idea might not fly with hybrid builders.
    01-14-10 11:36 AM
  17. karlac's Avatar
    My S1 has done everything I need to communicate effectively in _my_ business environment ... if if didn't, it wouldn't have lasted 24 hours.

    I highly recommend a like approach ...
    01-14-10 01:38 PM
  18. Rooster99's Avatar
    This is a touch off topic as it's not a prognostication on RIM's strategies and their effectiveness. It does touch on it though, as it's a question about Berry memory issues. I've placed it here as Berry memory is affecting me greatly, and the people on this topic are the most knowledgeable I've come across.

    My situation is that my S1 is deleting "old" Calendar entries and now "old" email addresses. I've been told, even by RIM support, that this is being caused by the Low Memory Manager. However, it's acknowledged there's a defect in my case because it's happening at 12-15MB free frequently, and once at 29MB free. From a business perspective I'm royally pi&&ed as I've set the device to keep data "Forever", and in any case, any device that is designed to delete my data without asking is just ... beyond.

    Anyway, my question is what is different about the Storm 2 that people seem to be able to have 100+MB free space? And at what point will my data be deleted from my S2 if I did upgrade? From the discussion I've read here it seems there is a 100MB limit to apps memory on Berries and from what I can tell that's a hardware, not OS, limitation. As background, I'm running a 9530 with .122 as the latest official Telus release.

    I am replacing my current Storm under warranty this weekend as RIM support now wants me to wipe the device and reinstall the OS, yet even they say that may not fix the issue. I will be praying my issue disappears with the new Storm, but have the feeling that even if it does, it won't be for long. Yet I'm reluctant to pay to upgrade to an S2 if that's not a long term fix.

    Any clarification will be appreciated. And thanks for a very illuminating thread!

    - R.
    01-15-10 03:40 PM
  19. The_Engine's Avatar
    Rooster - the S2 has more physical memory with 256 mb vs 128 mb on the S1. That is the main reason S2 owners have more. Not sure that would solve your issue since you had available memory.

    Also I would recommend upgrading the OS. .122 maybe the official but I am sure some of the other OS's out there, while not official on telus, will make a big difference for you.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-15-10 03:46 PM
  20. Rooster99's Avatar
    Engine, thanks for the fast response!

    I understand the S2 has more memory than the S1, but my reading here implied there was a 100MB app memory restriction that was hardware based. If that's the case, installing more RAM wouldn't increase the amount of free app memory. If perhaps the restriction was more of a partitioning issue based on % of total memory, or "anything left over from X is set to app memory" then what you describe would make sense. I think I've missed something somewhere but I'm not sure what.

    And I agree with you that upgrading to another OS version would be a Good Thing (note the caps!). But then I'd lose Telus' support, and they're the ones who have to authorize my warranty swap. Sigh - come on Telus, get with the program ...

    - R.
    01-15-10 06:08 PM
  21. The_Engine's Avatar
    Get the swap then update the OS. You can always wipe and go back to .122.

    I don't think there is any sort of limit on app memory except for the hardware limits and what is left after the OS is installed. I know folks who have S2's and have 120+ in app memory.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-15-10 07:30 PM
  22. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Hi, is this plane going to Beirut... has Rooster99 tired to light his/her underware on fire yet? Will the in-flight movie be Delta Force? lol
    01-15-10 10:06 PM
  23. pm1066's Avatar
    Exactly what sort of news flash is this thread? S1 was thrown a parting OS bone on the launch of S2. S1 died the day S2 came out, don't kid yourselves otherwise. RIM and carriers are focused on new contracts and new sales. And S2 doesn't look long for this earth either. Knock me over with a feather the day S3 drops and S2 users start realizing they are on the outside.
    01-16-10 05:02 AM
  24. decolur455's Avatar
    The way I personally see it, the main focus of RIM is for their corporate users as this has and will probably continue to be their bread and butter. I just don't think that they are too worried about the non-corporate users. Don't think that they lack the ability to put out a [email protected] device if they wanted to. It's not much of a concern with them and that's probably because their corp. business it still has them king of the hill. If they started to lose that side of their business, believe me that's when we'll start to see some devices from them that has what we are looking for be it iPhone like, Android like, Nokia like and whatever else. Just don't hold your breath because I don't think we'll ever see that from RIM because we would have already started to see from them. Right now, I don't think they even care about that consumer side and they know that most of us instead of jumping ship will keep buying from them waiting for the miracle that will never happen. Maybe they'll start to recognize us if the consumer side stops buying their products for a while and then we'll see if our numbers are important to them by their response.
    I love my Berry and for what I use my berry for I don't need all the stuff of an iPhone or Android phone but I'm not stupid either; if I ever decide I want all of that, I know that I'm just going to have to jump ship.
    01-16-10 05:45 AM
  25. Qazme's Avatar
    Well thanks for the information Civic. You have confirmed what I have been thinking would happen since they announced the whole Opengl/Flash coming to BB issue. I knew as soon as they announced it, knowing what I know about Adobe and RIM that it would not run on the S1/S2. But it's one of those things.

    From what I've seen and most people fail to remember, when you buy a piece of technology, the day you buy it is the best it will logically be sans small updates to software.

    RIM's core audience is the business sector here, which is why BIS is their main target of competence. Anyone who works in the IT world like I do should know, unless they are lucky, that the powers in control prefer proven technology that doesn't require a mass budget investment. They just want things that work. Hence in the IT world why a lot of businesses are still running XP even with W7 hitting the market.(That's my pet project putting together a W7 mitigation.)

    So in the end, with that in mind, RIM makes a product that IT staff is familiar with even with limitations and flaws. Because that's what most shops know. The push email was the selling point along with the added security of their O/S's. In the end RIM does know and does realize that competition in the consumer market will drive innovation and they are aware to a certain extent that to keep up they have to make innovation in their products.

    The end game will be if they decide to quit playing it safe and push their programmers to make a more consumer ready product while keeping their business core. And they will do it. No product is perfect for everyone, no O/S is right for everyone. The end game is people need to understand that companies like RIM can't support old technology forever, and in the smart phone market, especially competing with Apples yearly hardware upgrades and apparently HTC's too now, they have to pick a matter of importance. Right now the matter of importance is taking in customer consideration and competitive options and making a product that fits their corporate philosophy.

    On a side note, I wasn't an Android fan until I bought my wife an HTC Eris, and unless RIM puts together a really nice phone out of the S3 I will be moving over to the latest and greatest of HTC's phones later this year. (Still love my S1 flaws and all)
    01-16-10 08:27 AM
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