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This is the reason why i open this nonsense and idiotic post.Sorry!*smile*
http://forums.crackberry.com/attachm...-tombstone.jpg
lol...Thanks anyway Howarmat!No problem!
Last edited by tobleron; 01-12-10 at 06:42 PM.
01-12-10 06:15 PM - Nah JRS, the point I was trying to make regarding the (apparent) development of 512K+ devices is that - in spite of those devices being in development - I'd imagine RIM has prototypes with double that app memory on campus right now. Maybe I didn't communicate it artfully, but bottom line is that development is well ahead leaked specs, and a smart business IMO is looking a few chess moves down the board and isn't focused on the rook about to take their pawn.Yeah, I think you made a few "size" mistakes there jl.
Also, NOT all smartphone makers are following the same design principals of "just enough memory" to fit today's needs. Apple made the iPhone a couple of years ago with tons of app memory (not enough RAM, but TONS of app memory). They haven't changed that design principal since then and each year they just double it up for even more. This hasn't deterred people from buying the new models and it won't anytime soon, so the argument of "People won't buy the next phone if their current one is stacked" is just marketing bullisht and nothing more. Don't kid yourselves, the OP is not a scare tactic... RIM has released over 674 builds of OS5 for the Storm1/2... so far, all are flawed, and there's no end in sight for this. The problem is at the core... a core which RIM is working frantically to try and reengineer. The next 6-8 months will show you if they succeed or fail.
Pass me the low fat popcorn please...
p.s.
If all you got from the OP was just that "memory is an issue" you totally missed the point of it. The whole memory info was used to give you guys an idea of where things are going and why. Call it a "we shot ourselves in the foot" moment for RIM.
Since your OP was so comprehensive, and touched on a number of issues, I elected to focus on the "memory" aspects of it since, as you've acknowledged in the past, the BBOS is so poorly crafted the only way to resolve deep design flaws is to throw more memory at the problem and mask it. Or rewrite BBOS.
Anywho, we're on the same page. The more salient point I wanted to communicate, regarding the positives, is that this should slow the insane spewing of "new" devices running different OSs. It *should* stop the product line and OS fragmentation. Should...Last edited by jlsparks; 01-12-10 at 07:39 PM.
01-12-10 07:35 PM - ha! i knew it! i just didnt think it would be quite this soon though. i was kinda leaning towards them "maybe" rolling out an update in the distant future, but nothing monumental. so in just over a year, the S1 is, for all intents and purposes, dead. i've said it before.... "your S1 is pretty much as good as it's ever going to be". RIM or VZW may offer tech support or troubleshooting for your phone should you contact them, but as far as actual improvements it's over. it's being abandoned. and you people said i was crazy and they would continue to update this model. seriously, i used to love my storm, but over the course of the 7 or 8 months i had my S1, i found that the freezes and battery pulls (or QP) were getting to be ridiculous. c'mon.... you have to install an app to simulate a battery pull? why? for that matter, why the need for a daily battery pull in the first place? other mfgs don't have that problem. with my android, once a week i turn the phone off for about 3 seconds, then right back on again. this was just one of the quirks of the S1 that finally turned me off to RIM. that and all of the "advancements" that RIM started incorporating into 5.0 were already in use by htc and many other mfgs (flick scrolling, threaded sms, seamless transitions, and tabbed browsing just to name a few) for quite some time before RIM even started toying around with the ideas. i'm not a RIM basher or anything,and they have been innovative in some areas but they seriously need to consider redesigning their OS from the ground up instead of just heaping more crap on top of the same outdated and incapable one that they've been using for several years now. you've all heard it before and it's true (for the most part), "all RIM does is sell the same thing over and over in a newer and prettier (debatable) package". sure there are some differences between the models, but not enough to set one apart from all the others.
just something to consider.... "in a world that doesn't, droid does
just curious here.... anything new and exciting with the latset OS leaks? i kinda miss them.01-12-10 08:40 PM - J, I guess I should have been more obvious in what I meant.
You said 512K... "K"... while it is mathematically correct, it really should just read 512M "M" as in Megabyte.
Anyway, it would be foolish to think that they aren't playing with devices that have more memory and I'm by no means saying that they should throw more memory at a device to overcome the shortcomings of the OS.
What I am saying is that they should give us hardware that's worth a damn and will support future OSs from this day forward within reason. What RIM is currently doing IS NOT WITHIN REASON!
Let me give you a good example of this... iPhone (the original built one of 3 years ago) can run the latest iPhone OS on it. Sure, it lacks a couple of the new 3GS capabilities written within the new OS, but the newest OS RUNS ON THE IPHONE MADE 3 FREAKING YEARS AGO! Show me a Blackberry made 3 years ago that can run OS5. Heck, show me one made 2 years ago that can do it.
Come on, let's get real... 3 years ago, BB devices had 64MB flash memory mainly. The 8830 cannot run anything beyond OS4.5 and even that taps it at about 10MB free with only a couple of apps loaded. The 8330 is in the same boat and it had 96MB of flash memory. You see what I'm getting at here? Apple (short of their limited carrier penetration in the US) is having absolutely no issue selling the iPhone 3GS, and most of the people who bought it were iPhone or iPhone 3G users. So, the whole "they won't buy our new devices if we give them a good handset" is bullisht and everyone knows it.
The Pre had 8GB on release day... 8GB!!!! With the soon intro of the Pre Plus, it goes up to 16GB. WTF is so hard about doing the same thing on RIM's end? I'll tell ya... it's the way the OS architecture works. Fix that and you fix your hardware issues. The next thing after that will be the NOC infrastructure... or do the best thing out there, fix them both at the same time, but that'll be really hard. I suggest you fix the handset side of things first and phase out the old NOC topology with the old BB handsets. If you time it just right, you can solve all your issues within the next few years, but it's not going to be easy by any means.
I have to hand it to RIM. They have problems on both ends of the stick, whereas other smartphone makers only have to deal with the handsets, RIM also has to deal with the network that support their handsets... and you know what they say... "Two wrongs don't make a right."01-12-10 09:41 PM - You're right, I typoed. And yes iphone v1 can run the current iPhone OS 3.whatever.they're.up.to.now. You overlook a couple of fairly basic core functions iPhone v1 & (to an extent) v2 lacked and still lack, OS upgrade or no:J, I guess I should have been more obvious in what I meant.
You said 512K... "K"... while it is mathematically correct, it really should just read 512M "M" as in Megabyte.
Anyway, it would be foolish to think that they aren't playing with devices that have more memory and I'm by no means saying that they should throw more memory at a device to overcome the shortcomings of the OS.
What I am saying is that they should give us hardware that's worth a damn and will support future OSs from this day forward within reason. What RIM is currently doing IS NOT WITHIN REASON!
Let me give you a good example of this... iPhone (the original built one of 3 years ago) can run the latest iPhone OS on it. Sure, it lacks a couple of the new 3GS capabilities written within the new OS, but the newest OS RUNS ON THE IPHONE MADE 3 FREAKING YEARS AGO! Show me a Blackberry made 3 years ago that can run OS5. Heck, show me one made 2 years ago that can do it.
Come on, let's get real... 3 years ago, BB devices had 64MB flash memory mainly. The 8830 cannot run anything beyond OS4.5 and even that taps it at about 10MB free with only a couple of apps loaded. The 8330 is in the same boat and it had 96MB of flash memory. You see what I'm getting at here? Apple (short of their limited carrier penetration in the US) is having absolutely no issue selling the iPhone 3GS, and most of the people who bought it were iPhone or iPhone 3G users. So, the whole "they won't buy our new devices if we give them a good handset" is bullisht and everyone knows it.
The Pre had 8GB on release day... 8GB!!!! With the soon intro of the Pre Plus, it goes up to 16GB. WTF is so hard about doing the same thing on RIM's end? I'll tell ya... it's the way the OS architecture works. Fix that and you fix your hardware issues. The next thing after that will be the NOC infrastructure... or do the best thing out there, fix them both at the same time, but that'll be really hard. I suggest you fix the handset side of things first and phase out the old NOC topology with the old BB handsets. If you time it just right, you can solve all your issues within the next few years, but it's not going to be easy by any means.
I have to hand it to RIM. They have problems on both ends of the stick, whereas other smartphone makers only have to deal with the handsets, RIM also has to deal with the network that support their handsets... and you know what they say... "Two wrongs don't make a right."
1. No GPS. None.
2. No 3G compatibility. None.
3. No cut/paste. None.
To Apple's credit of course, they addressed these issues with 3G and GS; however, the product @ launch and 1 year after launch was deficient in ways similar to, for example, S1/S2. I know this because I owned a v1 and v2 iPhone.
As far as RIMs NOC infrastructure I don't see that changing. Major BES implementors, including the government, expect email to transit securely from mail server, through RIM's NOC, to the device and back. I don't see how they'd tolerate exposing that data to the broader interwebs, absent some other, equally secure, transit mode. Of course for BIS consumers this is far less an issue. But going back to the issue of RIM having too much handset diversity globally, let me bring that around very briefly to the NOC. I suppose that BES traffic could continue to transit through the NOC, while BIS traffic could be either: a) tagged as with a lower QoS, since directing it through the existing NOC topology but deprioritized as compared to BES traffic; or b) not handled through proxies. The corollary here is that creating a BIS/BES dichotomy would send RIM down the same road their device release "strategy" has taken them.
Putting on my Jim Basille hat I'd 1st slash and burn my way through the current device line. Bought a Tour 2 years ago? I'll give you a free Tour2 and EOL your Tour. Don't want the upgrade? I'll give you a 6 month headstart and on 8/1/10 EOL the Tour. Ditto S1. Ditto 8530. Ditto Pearl. You can keep your phone, but you won't receive support or maintenance updates. 2nd, with a stable, manageable number of devices to support, I'd task my engineers with developing 2 operating systems: 1 touch, 1 non-touch. Tweaked modestly to meet carrier-specific needs, but the entire core would be the same.
So much work to be done. The pisser is it *can* be done though, and I'm hoping it will.
Hrm, so much for "briefly"..
01-12-10 10:09 PM - Very well put. I posted about the iPhone comparison the LAST time someone started this mindless debate. I'm glad to see there is someone else who sees another well thought out viewpoint and not just the marching orders of the cult of JRSCCivicYou're right, I typoed. And yes iphone v1 can run the current iPhone OS 3.whatever.they're.up.to.now. You overlook a couple of fairly basic core functions iPhone v1 & (to an extent) v2 lacked and still lack, OS upgrade or no:
1. No GPS. None.
2. No 3G compatibility. None.
3. No cut/paste. None.
To Apple's credit of course, they addressed these issues with 3G and GS; however, the product @ launch and 1 year after launch was deficient in ways similar to, for example, S1/S2. I know this because I owned a v1 and v2 iPhone.
As far as RIMs NOC infrastructure I don't see that changing. Major BES implementors, including the government, expect email to transit securely from mail server, through RIM's NOC, to the device and back. I don't see how they'd tolerate exposing that data to the broader interwebs, absent some other, equally secure, transit mode. Of course for BIS consumers this is far less an issue. But going back to the issue of RIM having too much handset diversity globally, let me bring that around very briefly to the NOC. I suppose that BES traffic could continue to transit through the NOC, while BIS traffic could be either: a) tagged as with a lower QoS, since directing it through the existing NOC topology but deprioritized as compared to BES traffic; or b) not handled through proxies. The corollary here is that creating a BIS/BES dichotomy would send RIM down the same road their device release "strategy" has taken them.
Putting on my Jim Basille hat I'd 1st slash and burn my way through the current device line. Bought a Tour 2 years ago? I'll give you a free Tour2 and EOL your Tour. Don't want the upgrade? I'll give you a 6 month headstart and on 8/1/10 EOL the Tour. Ditto S1. Ditto 8530. Ditto Pearl. You can keep your phone, but you won't receive support or maintenance updates. 2nd, with a stable, manageable number of devices to support, I'd task my engineers with developing 2 operating systems: 1 touch, 1 non-touch. Tweaked modestly to meet carrier-specific needs, but the entire core would be the same.
So much work to be done. The pisser is it *can* be done though, and I'm hoping it will.
Hrm, so much for "briefly"..01-12-10 10:50 PM
