[JRSCCivic98]

I have some bad news for anyone hoping to see a lot more development for OS5.0 for the Storm or any other device with 128MB of Flash or less. Development for OS5.0 for 9630 and below models (128MB or less memory) has pretty much come to a crawl. There are several issues that remain on these OS versions and RIM has decided to move onto the next OS versions which are to support 256MB and higher memory devices. Their new OS development is concentrating on 512MB device models still due to be released in the near future and devices with less then this about will be treated much like current 64MB models have been when it came to OS4.5 or higher support. 128MB memory models will not run the new OS being designed for the newer 512MB hardware, only 256MB and OpenGL models will support it, but at some performance loss compared to the newer models still due to hit market.

The carriers have also pretty much come to a standstill on certifying any new 5.0 OS versions for some of their existing models. Their hopes are to move onto newer devices. Verizon wants to certify OS5.x for the current Tour 9630, but is having second thoughts because the 9650 is almost here with improved hardware/memory. Most likely, they'll leave the 9630 in the dust or release just one 5.0 build (higher then 5.0.0.40x) right before the 9650 hits market. After that, no other current handset will see anything major in terms of OS improvements or releases until the new OS versions surface with the introduction of 512MB memory models and with the introduction of the new browser/widget capabilities.

Sorry, but that's the way it's going to be... I hate it too.

[hootyhoo]

Always a beacon of sunshine CIVIC.
Fortunately, I never sit on the edge of hope when it comes to major upgrades from RIM.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[valorian]

This really does not supprise me. This really is the way of life for comsumer electronics. The old are phased out so the R&D teams can spend more effort on the latest and greatest. We see this all the time in the computer world.

[howarmat]

that is a pretty big disappointment. I was hoping to see atleast 1 more OS 5 release for the S1 before it gets the cold shoulder treatment. and the news about the tour is rather interesting to hear since its a very new device still and many people jumped ship for that device from the storm when it came out. Hopefully it gets atleast 1 OS 5 official from VZW soon

[mpneill]

Though I dislike the thought of having to buy a new phone, I can understand the need for more memory and better, faster hardware to progress the 5.0 operating system. Its not like we can upgrade the components in our phones. I guess I see this as a good thing that RIM is poised on advancing to keep up with the competition. Now if they would solve the software/bugs in their operating system.

[JasonM.]

Yeah that's not too surprising. 2 years is a long time for mobile device hardware... It's hard to believe but the S1 was being developed at least 2 and probably closer to 3 years ago. With 20-30MB of memory available to apps after boot, it seems a waste to try to make the device do any more. They're wise to focus their efforts on next gen devices because the S1/2 hardware will never really be a mind blowing device no matter how much OS development they throw at it. Windows 7 on a 386 would fare as well as OS 5.2 or 6.X on a S1/2.

[zinadork]

That sounds about right. OS 5.0 did not really add a lot of functionality to the Storm. They should at least upgrade the browser on all 4.6+ devices. If they don't it will cost them in the long run when users abandon the platform entirely.

[JRSCCivic98]

Yeah that's not too surprising. 2 years is a long time for mobile device hardware... It's hard to believe but the S1 was being developed at least 2 and probably closer to 3 years ago. With 20-30MB of memory available to apps after boot, it seems a waste to try to make the device do any more. They're wise to focus their efforts on next gen devices because the S1/2 hardware will never really be a mind blowing device no matter how much OS development they throw at it. Windows 7 on a 386 would fare as well as OS 5.2 or 6.X on a S1/2.

I think that's beyond an over exaggeration. A 386 is more then 15 years in the past and nowhere near the same exponential timeline as the S1/S2 hardware is.


Anyway, I think the biger picture here is that RIM's thinking that 512MB memory models of the near future will sustain them much better then the current models have. I am betting that it won't. They are shooting themselves in the foot by trying to follow suit of some other smartphone makers and think 512MB is enough to do the job. It won't be and they are also not planning on implementing SD card memory expansion into the OS anytime soon. They played with the idea of internal media memory expansion for app use, but that failed as well. Right now and in the near OS version futures, no memory expansion will be made available. What you have out of the box in terms of flash memory for OS/Apps is what you'll be stuck with. Expect RIM's R&D to flatten out over the next 6 months or so... they will try their best to bring something new and refreshing with the newest OS they are currently working on, but it will ultimately fail in the eyes of true enthusiasts. Sucks to be RIM...

[Ayrow]

I know I'll get flamed for saying this, but it is just another thing that will help people decide to go to the Android OS.

I played with a Nexus One and it is a superb device in every way.
Blackberry is being left in the dust, trying to keep up.

Moving on.

[JasonM.]

Anyway, I think the biger picture here is that RIM's thinking that 512MB memory models of the near future will sustain them much better then the current models have. I am betting that it won't. They are shooting themselves in the foot by trying to follow suit of some other smartphone makers and think 512MB is enough to do the job.

512MB is plenty if you don't have to load the whole app into memory. Like you said, their failures at utilizing local or SD memory as app memory is ultimately going to be the nail in the coffin. There is no reason that 256 or even 128MB of RAM is insufficient for a mobile platform except that loading all modules into RAM is horribly inefficient. Much like their utilization of APN, their utilization of memory resources sucks balls.

[jetman1287]

512MB models? You mean there's going to be a Bold3, Tour3, Storm3 coming out by the end of this year? It's to be expected eventually, but this is insane.

Can it, RIM. Build a phone that works and get your software in shape. This is embarrassing and I wonder how many RETAINED customers you will have...many move to the BB and become addicted...then they see there are silly limitations -

A 2MB app is huge. Battery pulls and memory loss. ****tiest browser on smartphones today. And YET -

they keep pumping out hardware upgrades. Don't you think the consumer users are more likely to move to Android or a possible Verizon iPhone when they realize how unreliable BB's have become?

I thought upgrading everyone to trackpads, WiFi, increased memory and 5.0 would be enough for a little while. Look like they want to keep confusing everyone with 9730s, 9750s, 9800s, and so on. And they don't LISTEN because things are going so well with new converts to smartphones who don't get it..

[dcsr23]

Wow, I just picked up a storm 2 to upgrade to and it's already being considered last years model. My storm 1 was definitely a hit of crack, and after playing with droids and iphones I've really liked my BB for what it was. Guess I need to start looking into the next iphone on VZW or Android device.

[littlegreenmen]

Attachment 51389 We all knew it was coming. lol

[dylanmail]

I'm sure this is the usual product development cycle strategy: get consumers to buy your product, have them invest time and money on accessories and apps, sprinkle in some updates to the product (e.g., OS updates), and cripple the product in some way that will force most adopters to upgrade to a new device before the current one's natural life is over. I doubt there was any technological barrier to incorporating the Storm2's higher memory capacity into the Storm1. Nor do I think RIM simply didn't forsee the need for such an increase in memory. I mean, come on. So, at the end of the day, this is nothing out of the norm. It sucks, but we are partly to blame, too, for always seeking the next best thing and more, more, more. I guess we have to expect that the life cycles of smartphones will continue to get shorter and shorter until a manufacturer has the guts to build a device that may be overkill now (1GB of RAM? 8GBs?) but will be just enough 2 years later.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[littlegreenmen]

I'm sure this is the usual product development cycle strategy: get consumers to buy your product, have them invest time and money on accessories and apps, sprinkle in some updates to the product (e.g., OS updates), and cripple the product in some way that will force most adopters to upgrade to a new device before the current one's natural life is over. I doubt there was any technological barrier to incorporating the Storm2's higher memory capacity into the Storm1. Nor do I think RIM simply didn't forsee the need for such an increase in memory. I mean, come on. So, at the end of the day, this is nothing out of the norm. It sucks, but we are partly to blame, too, for always seeking the next best thing and more, more, more. I guess we have to expect that the life cycles of smartphones will continue to get shorter and shorter until a manufacturer has the guts to build a device that may be overkill now (1GB of RAM? 8GBs?) but will be just enough 2 years later.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I agree. Overkill is needed but wont happen due to a standstill that would follow. Last thing phone makers want is people not buying phones. If people are satisfied they dont buy so theres a catch 22 i guess. lol

[jetman1287]

But most people buy a new phone every two years. So you'd want to update the round of phones yearly...really build up to the release. Instead we have Storm2 (9 months) and Tour2 (6 months). That's way too short considering the number of people who buy these phones and expect 2 years out of them. The Curve had a more understandable shelf life.

Development for Storm1 should stop in late 2010, Tour1 in 2011, but it already looks like the Tour is done. Unbelievable!

[dylanmail]

I agree. Overkill is needed but wont happen due to a standstill that would follow. Last thing phone makers want is people not buying phones. If people are satisfied they dont buy so theres a catch 22 i guess. lol

Maybe manufacturers should charge for major OS updates like PC manufacturers do? I'm sure they can think of other ways to tap us for more money that wouldn't be as much as buying a new phone every year. There's no shortage of money-making ideas out there.

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[chuckh0308]

Unfortunately for RIM, I'm not one of these consumers who will buy the next model because the one I have doesn't work right. If RIM wanted to keep me as a customer they would have had the 9530 working as advertised at LEAST by March of last year and they would continue to develop for it to make it better. The fact that it's been over a year and it still doesn't work right (not to mention that the S2 has many of the same problems still!), AND they want to stop supporting the device tells me that they really don't want my business again. I plan to shop elsewhere and my Storm will likely be gone this Spring...

[pokerpro]

I'll be very surprised if they don't release a 5.0 OS for the tour 9630 because there is not even a tentative release date for the ESSEX Tour2 or is there? And doesnt the tour1 have 256mb and would be able to support a new OS. I can understand the storm1 not getting a update anymore but the tour should have at least 2 more OS updates

[littlegreenmen]

To me the reality of it is that phone makers and OS designers and such are still in the infancy of the touchscreen boom. I mean its been like what 3-4 yrs now that things have gone fullscale to where it is now. We still got a long ways to go and im sure every phone maker will come around if they want to stay competitive. Everyone is going to screw things up first till they get a hang of it , just takes time and willingness to adapt to new ideas and such.

[haris163]

Unfortunately for RIM, I'm not one of these consumers who will buy the next model because the one I have doesn't work right. If RIM wanted to keep me as a customer they would have had the 9530 working as advertised at LEAST by March of last year and they would continue to develop for it to make it better. The fact that it's been over a year and it still doesn't work right (not to mention that the S2 has many of the same problems still!), AND they want to stop supporting the device tells me that they really don't want my business again. I plan to shop elsewhere and my Storm will likely be gone this Spring...

Ditto

-more chars-

[Krypto]

I wonder where this info is coming from. JRSCCivic, care to enlighten us? In the meantime, I'm going to cough this up to you having fun screwing with everyone.

Of course RIM is now focusing on upcoming models, but I seriously doubt we're seeing the end of OS 5.0 development for the current devices. I don't expect to see any new features enabled, however there will continue to be maintenance updates. And carriers haven't wrapped up testing. This should be evidenced by the release of .419 by MTS. OS 5.0 is still planned for release by Telus Mobility and Bell Mobility, however, as per usual, they tend to proceed through testing rather slowly (how else do you explain Telus still being on .122).

Sure, new feature development in OS 5.0 is likely done and its now time to move on to developing the new OSes with the new feature sets, but I don't think we're at the end of OS 5.0 yet.

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[c4v3man]

Well RIM offered a pretty decent value to me with the storm when it originally released, however they never addressed all the bugs, and the OS is still not as fluid as it should be. I know when my NE2 is up this year I'm probably moving to an android device unless WM7 is out by then. I think overall I was actually happier with my windows mobile experience than I have been with doing bat-pulls with blackberries. I don't even load a bunch of useless crap on my phone...

Oh well... the phone IS more usable now than it was at release, and is actually functional. I guess that's all we can expect from RIM? It works?

[S3QU3NC3]

I'm sure this is the usual product development cycle strategy: get consumers to buy your product, have them invest time and money on accessories and apps, sprinkle in some updates to the product (e.g., OS updates), and cripple the product in some way that will force most adopters to upgrade to a new device before the current one's natural life is over. I doubt there was any technological barrier to incorporating the Storm2's higher memory capacity into the Storm1. Nor do I think RIM simply didn't forsee the need for such an increase in memory. I mean, come on. So, at the end of the day, this is nothing out of the norm. It sucks, but we are partly to blame, too, for always seeking the next best thing and more, more, more. I guess we have to expect that the life cycles of smartphones will continue to get shorter and shorter until a manufacturer has the guts to build a device that may be overkill now (1GB of RAM? 8GBs?) but will be just enough 2 years later.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Agree. This isn't something that kinda just springs up (business eye). In the business world you like to think ahead and get the most out of the years to come. And now that the business world is changing due to the fact that the consumers wants are changing (and fast) making things more available, ect., you can expect a large business such as RIM would take these types of actions. I mean what are most people gonna do about (if they even see it)? Drop from the company to go to another that will proly be soon to do it next?

Things like this are going to happen, and i think in a slightly more faster pace just as our needs and wants grow so much quicker. UNTIL that one company out there decided to put out a product that stands above the rest but also ready to take the risk and heat that comes along. You see this in every industry.


but...... this does suck.

[Davec1234]

RIM is going to be playing catch up for a couple years, if not longer.
I have had a BB since June and I'm dumping it after March 1st.
RIM seems very shortsighted and just flat out arrogant.
Whatever.

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