[S3th13]

I know this has been discussed, but I haven't seen anyone asking why they think the decision was made to include only 192Mb of RAM on the phone. What do you all think the reason was?

I mean RAM is so ungodly cheap these days... it doesn't make any sense. I understand its normal Blackberry operation to be checking application memory, deleting unused apps/themes/etc, making the phone run as smooth as possible, but I don't understand why they would continue going that route? Did RIM think it was fun dealing with our phone as if it was Windows Vista?

I can go out and buy a 16GB Micro SD card for $30, but RIM can't include any more than 192Mb for us? Especially when the OS uses more than 2/3 of that memory. I know the problem is memory allocation, but then that would limit the internal memory on the phone(the "hard drive" space), so what could have been their possible reasoning in making this decision? Cutting costs? I can't imagine the RAM they use on these devices is barely anything to begin with.

[Taskbar]

I can go out and buy a 16GB Micro SD card for $30, but RIM can't include any more than 192Mb for us?

Not trying to thread hijack, but where can u buy 16gb micro sd for $30$$

[Mr Bigs]

I know this has been discussed, but I haven't seen anyone asking why they think the decision was made to include only 192Mb of RAM on the phone. What do you all think the reason was?

I mean RAM is so ungodly cheap these days... it doesn't make any sense. I understand its normal Blackberry operation to be checking application memory, deleting unused apps/themes/etc, making the phone run as smooth as possible, but I don't understand why they would continue going that route? Did RIM think it was fun dealing with our phone as if it was Windows Vista?

I can go out and buy a 16GB Micro SD card for $30, but RIM can't include any more than 192Mb for us? Especially when the OS uses more than 2/3 of that memory. I know the problem is memory allocation, but then that would limit the internal memory on the phone(the "hard drive" space), so what could have been their possible reasoning in making this decision? Cutting costs? I can't imagine the RAM they use on these devices is barely anything to begin with.

So you will buy the next model. RIM really needs to allow SD cards to hold apps and this would be a dead issue.

[Clover86]

I'm going to correct you the storm does not have 192mb of ram. It has 128

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[neolantis]

So you will buy the next model.

somebody else brought up the same thing...it sucks but lets hope they can address it in an update

[gtstang462002]

I think that they should add a slot so that we can expand our system memory aside from the media memory.

[Branta]

So you will buy the next model. RIM really needs to allow SD cards to hold apps and this would be a dead issue.

External media cards are several orders of magnitude slower than internal memory. Think of the comparison (on a PC) between RAM speed and hard disk or USB flash drives.

Now remember how difficult it gets if you install apps to a removable USB drive. Windows gets quite upset about it if the drive is removed...

[bigman2]

One of the biggest reasons would probably be that all that RAM requires power from the battery to keep it active. Then there's cost as well. Even if it only saves RIM a couple of pennies on each device, if you're going to be making millions of devices between the US and Europe, those few pennies per phone will add up very quickly.

Third, RIM was designing this phone probably as far back as 2 years ago, and at some point they have to finalize a design so they can start manufacturing it, developers have a stable target to write code for, etc. Back when RIM was designing the Storm and finalizing the design specs, the RAM manufacturing companies (of which there are only 3-4) were price fixing. They just recently pleaded guilty to that, just like the 3-4 companies that make all the display components for HDTV sets. RAM prices were quite a bit more expensive back when RIM was finalizing the Storm spec.

Fourth, flash based storage devices are NOT the same thing as RAM. For starters, flash cells will wear out with use. After some finite number of writes, a cell will simply wear out.

Five, most of the performance issues are just poorly optimized OS code. If you had ever done any software development, you might know that a common practice is to start by making code that works. After you have something that works, you can focus on making it pretty by streamlining the code. Most carriers want a prime rib sort of OS for a phone, but only want to pay for a McDonalds Happy Meal. The phone makers often do the best they can with what they have, but rarely is it enough.

Finally, 192MB of RAM is actually quite a bit for an embedded platform like a cell phone.

You really do need to learn a bit more about the whole development lifecycle of something like a cell phone. It starts off with probably a few months of people just spitballing ideas about what they want in the phone. Then they might spend a month or so whittling that list down to a few dozen ideas which will be what actually goes into the phone at launch. They then hand this list of features to the developers, who might have 6-12 months lead time to develop the firmware for the device. Once they have something workable, they will manufacture a few prototype devices which will probably take at least a couple of weeks. The developers will load the beta version of the software onto the test units, and start with the bug bombing which could be anywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months. Once the management signs off on a particular build of the software for the phone, they will start going into mass production. It could take over a month before they fine tune the assembly process and get it going smoothly. Then they can only produce as many units as they have parts to build them, so any delay in the shipment of the parts can cause huge delays in the production process. Especially if using a just-in-time inventory strategy to try and keep costs down.

From start to finish, most cell phones probably take 2-3 years to get from concept stage to for sale in your local store. And once you finalize the hardware specification, you absolutely DO NOT CHANGE IT without a VERY good reason. That reason had better be on the order of the company you contracted with for that part is out of business, or is unable to fulfill the terms of the contract in some way, and you need to source a new part. It is simply far too costly to go changing the hardware around willy-nilly. Every time you change even the smallest of parts, you have to reprogram at least one of the robots on the assembly line and then do a number of test runs to make sure everything is proceeding smoothly. And all the time the assembly line is down is time you're NOT producing new units for sale. Then there's the bulk rate deals you work out with part manufacturers, and if you're only buying small quantities, it's more expensive. And if developers never know whether a Storm will have 192MB of RAM or 512MB, they either have to assume all Storm's will have only 192MB of RAM, or write an app that will only work on 512MB models, thereby segmenting the app market.

There are very good practical reasons for why RIM did what they did with the Storm. Building a cell phone for mass production isn't like building a computer for yourself.

[Branta]

I mean RAM is so ungodly cheap these days... it doesn't make any sense. I understand its normal Blackberry operation to be checking application memory, deleting unused apps/themes/etc, making the phone run as smooth as possible, but I don't understand why they would continue going that route? Did RIM think it was fun dealing with our phone as if it was Windows Vista?

Every operating system in the world has this kind of constraint, it is a simple fact of life until the underlying technology advances by several generations.

First consideration - it is good programming practice to separate 'user space' and 'system space' so one can't nuke the other. That's the reason you have 1G total memory, with 128M partitioned for the OS and operation.

I don't know the exact reasons why 128MBytes was selected for the OS share of the RAM. However the consideration probably revolves around memory management, and the number of bytes required to address any specific memory location. Think telephone numbers, if you have a 3 digit number you have a maximum of 1000 unique variations. As you add more digits you increase the number of possible subscribers (addresses) but you need more space in the switch room to accommodate the links. The same applies within a computer program, and if the OS uses n-byte memory addresses there is a practical limit to the space which can be handled. To go bigger requires a complete rework of the OS, maybe a different processor and chipset, and a lot of additional testing before it can be released to service.

Would you have been prepared to wait, maybe as long as 18 months or 2 years for the new phone with OS supporting larger memory space? Whatever was allocated, would it be enough?

Just out of interest, which available applications would you want to install to soak up all the current free memory? The majority of users who demand more memory actually have plenty of free memory in routine use and have never provided a useful answer that question Most seem to think it would let them run buggy apps with memory leaks - but of course this is not true, because a leak is a leak and it will eventually crash the phone.

[JRSCCivic98]

Everyone concerned about this should email RIM at [email protected] complaining about the lack of app memory on the Storm. They need to know that it's far too less for a platform such as this.

[S3th13]

Thanks for the response everyone. I learn something new every day.

And in response to bigman, I don't really know much about any type of software development cycles because I am only in my 2nd year towards finishing my BS in Computer Science.

I wasn't specifically stating I had a problem with the amount of free memory on my Storm. Its usually between 35-50. Unfortunately, I can't pin point why the OS seems slow. When I first installed .76, it ran great for 2 days. Then I got my first random reboot and its been laggy every since.

[Accidental Post]

Not trying to thread hijack, but where can u buy 16gb micro sd for $30$$

You could have a terabyte and has no impact on internal memory...BB's do not operte like that applications run on internal memory only....

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Bigman2, I want to thank you for the post. If I wasn't on WAP, I would've quoted it. Very very good explanation as to why things are what they are and why they happen. Most people here have no clue as to what happens behind the scenes, and they believe it to be quite easy to build a super device. Anyways, thanks again.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[MPSmith1]

Very interesting post Bigman2. Thanks!

[serenityseeker]

Wow.
Awsome posts and great info..thanx.

[mr_matt]

yes i am so annoyed that i cant fit more applications and i only have a few i already deleted all the un-needed ones