[forest gospel]

According to BGR

"It�s RIM�s fault because regardless of any specific AT&T issues, the OS as a whole is a piece of ****. This isn�t what we�re used to as a �RIM� release. The code is still buggy, there are random restarts, there are java errors, the browser has major problems, the device still overheats sometimes, etc and etc. Just look at any forum or talk to a power user who has one on any carrier. I second Stop-N-Go� honestly maybe 5% difference between .125 and .158 (latest I�m on). It�s crap, and RIM knows it crap, but they�re too busy with Storm. Hate to break it to y�all but Storm has major code issues as well."

He posted this as a response in the Bold AT&T Training article
BlackBerry Bold training on AT&T cancelled due to launch delays : Boy Genius Report

Crucial or Kevin...Im calling upon your response.

[Rjsumthin]

I would assume if Boy Genius with his bold quote had a storm to actually post about, then we would know alot more than we do now. He talks like he knows the device because he has it.

My take

AT&T for once is going to potentially be behind Verizon on a phone release, and BGR appears to have an extreme bias favoring AT&T, so making all the stabs he can to save face for that company.

[ShortSxit]

The other posters on that blog say that they are having no issues with their Bold on other networks, so it must be an AT&T issue. Boy Genius responds with "It's RIM's fault because it sucks."

[CrackBerry Kevin]

Yeah... there's some truth for sure in what Stop-N-Go said and BG said, at least as far as the Bold goes. I can't comment on the Storm - so whether there's major bugs there or not I'm not sure. Though if you look at where the Bold is at, you can basically surmise that there must be some run over of the issues onto the Storm. If they were all magically fixed for the Storm, they should have trickled back to the Bold by now.

I'm on .162 for the Bold now. A LOT better than version .125 that shipped with Rogers in terms of solving what were some pretty major/annoying glitches. I'm not sure how you'd quantify how much better - 5%? 10%? All I know is it definitely improved stability, added to battery life, fixed up the major glitches in my browser (but I'm sure there's still more room for performance gains here), etc. Though as I mentioned in the blogs - it's still not the same device (with .150) when running on AT&T. Blame the device or the network? Well.. seems to be the network that makes it difficult to get the device just right.

As for reasoning... here's the best take I can give ya. It's a bit of history, but I think it's what we're seeing now in these delays. BlackBerry started as a two-way pager. So at the core of the BlackBerry Operating System is basically a two-way pager that has evolved and evolved and been added onto over the years to become the current BBOS we all know and (for the most part) love. But as RIM tries to push the envelope, every single step in the process seems to be accompanied with growing pains. Every bit of improvement is done with some challenges. Think about it - if it was *that* easy to improve on they would have already done it! RIM's hardware engineering is pretty awesome. If they have a weak side that needs to be addressed, I think it's fair to say it's on the OS side.

Hate to bring comparisons into it, but then look at a brand new smartphone to hit the market like the iPhone. At its core is Mac OSX... a computer. So whereas RIM has to "build up" on everything that they're doing, Apple simply has to "life the curtains" on what's already there.

Different approaches, and RIM's organic growth approach has obviously turned out stellar devices over the years, but I think now what we're seeing a bit of is difficulty as they begin to push the envelope.

Re: the Storm. All I really know is that when it hits the market, the web browser had better be rocking. So many people pitted the Bold vs. iPhone 3G in the media... and well, as RIM always said, that wasn't the case (Bold was in development for 3 years). And comparing the two is a little like apples and oranges because of the form factor. But for the Storm... with a big display and touchscreen, it's going to get compared. There's going to be some differences that come down to preference, but when it comes to the web browser the comparisons will be cut and dry, and the Storm's will have to work. My Bold' Browsers are Buggered rant wasn't that long ago... so I'm just hoping RIM's browser team has grown in size and they're going full bore on getting things done right.

So yeah.. I'm not a techy... but the above would be my take on it. I have a lot of faith in RIM and RIM's people. Smart engineers and they turn out good devices. Only issue right now is time. Verizon is pushing the Storm hard, and I'm guessing they're going to put it to market on time whether the code is polished or not. Let's hope it's silky smooth.

[apolicerecruit]

Kevin, you have to agree that BGR is almost always negative toward big red and BlackBerry. He's an ATT/Apple guy. I know the bold has had a ton of bugs, but even if it didn't he'd still bash it and the storm. He has had some good advice and insight in the past but now seems to be in apple's back pocket.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Strom Reviews]

I'm sure there will be bugs - the iphone had a whole ton of them when that was launched, and then more bugs when 2.0 was launched. Seems to be the way most companies are happy to operate - get the product to market & let the early adopters test it & report any bugs. Microsoft have been doing this for years!

[BigVDawgy]

Keep in mind the 9530 is running CDMA EVDO which has been on BB's for years, the Bold was the first to introduce the GSM 3G. I would think that related to the radios, the Storm is not going to see the same level of issues as the Bold (at least on CDMA and non-3G GSM).

[Stang68]

Also, check out who runs ads on Boy Geniuses website.....AT&T?! **GASP** What a surprise!

[Pholey22]

I think BigV is right. CDMA 3G is nothing new. To me it sounds like its an AT&T thing. Kevin, remember blog about NYC? As far as browser goes I think we are safe on the Storm. They used the same webkit as the iPhone. Did they use the same for the Bold? Lastly, I've read many comments from our friends in Europe and they don't seem to be having these issues. All I can say is AT&T and their infant 3G network.

Besides don't you think K Byrne or CX would have shed a little light on this issue if in fact it was an issue??

So, I'm not buying into this whole "its RIMs fault". BGR is without a doubt bias as we are at Crackberry. The only difference we know where stand and he hides behind "BGR"...why don't they change his site to "iPhonePhanBoy.com (IPB)? Oh wait, he can't sell any apps, themes, or the like! I quit visiting his site long ago. There is more speculation in his blogs then there are in these forums and we all know how that can get.

Man I hope VZW gets the Storm out before AT&Ts crippled 3G network Bold!!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[markcb]

Kevin, you have to agree that BGR is almost always negative toward big red and BlackBerry. He's an ATT/Apple guy. I know the bold has had a ton of bugs, but even if it didn't he'd still bash it and the storm. He has had some good advice and insight in the past but now seems to be in apple's back pocket.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I don't get where people get this whole "BG is against blackberry and VZ"

[Pholey22]

I don't get where people get this whole "BG is against blackberry and VZ"

Well, I would tell you to read his articles regarding the Storm, VZW and RIM. But that would just be another "hit" for his site. Put it this way, I have followed the Storm since April-Mayish and have used several sites for info. BGR has had very few positives regarding VZW and RIM. I'm sure many other "posters" will agree. Not only that but his blogs are poorly written.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[CrackBerry Kevin]

Hey Guys,

interesting thread...

- yeah, forgot to mention in my novel above, but BigvDawgy brought it up. The big departure/challenge on the Bold is the chipset. It's the first time they've not away from the Qualcomm solution (gotta diversify those suppliers to gain long-term advantage) and in doing so they're working with a new stack. Pretty sure it's this new stack that's been the challenge for RIM... that's where the three years of development comes into play, as well as the current challenges of rolling the device out everywhere. Once they get it right and control it, it should mean tighter turnaround for future devices. And the Storm does stick with the Qualcomm chipset, so it shouldn't run into the same sort of radio bugs. But touchscreen input and OS4.7 is a whole new game beside the radio.... but sure seems like a ton of effort is going into so know RIM will do it up right come showtime.

- Re: BG. I like his content and his site. Zero issues with the guy and I hate to see people bash. I understand everyone's viewpoint... but ya know... play nice! And thanks to y'all for supporting CrackBerry!!!

[DruB]

Crucial -- can you weigh in on this?

[pete2s]

There may be some bias in the way he presents his facts, but they are almost always dead on.

Honestly, after the Bold's--which is more evolutionary-- extensive problems, are you surprised the revolutionary Storm doesn't have equal if not more issues?

[JRSCCivic98]

Umm, perhaps I'm missing something here, but that entire paragraph was basically slated towards the Bold... right up until the last sentance. Seems to me like someone just pulling a last punch ala "Oh yeah, and the blah blah blah". SSDD from BGR. Honestly, there's nothing new here, we all know the Bold has issues in the states. Just ask Kevin... he'll tell ya. lol Heck, while I'm at it, I'll tell ya that my .77 release of 4.5 still has bugs in it. What else is new. I think too many people are living under the assumption that RIM's code is always stable and bulletproof. Ya... ok.

[Arninetyes]

I don't "know" what will happen with the VZW Storm--obviously. But I had a couple of thoughts.

1) As someone already said, VZW's CDMA/EVDO network is vastly more reliable than ATT's 3G.
2) The Bold was RIM's first 3G. RIM is very comfortable with CDMA--although the Storm will be RIM's first rev A device.
3) Both the Bold AND the iPhone continue to have major 3G issues--only on ATT.
4) VZW tends to be very careful and conservative with their hardware. When did the CDMA Curve come out? Where is OS 4.5? How long before there is a CDMA 8900?

While I'm certain there will be bugs in the Storm (duh--it's a new, complicated device), I have trouble believing VZW will release it if it has "major code issues". It would be an EXPENSIVE customer service mistake.

Of course, with the state of the economy, they may be desperate. We'll see. Maybe if it's good enough, I'll suspend my dislike for touchscreens and give it a chance.

Naw. I want an 8930.

[toastyz71]

it'd be interesting to know if using the storm on att's EDGE makes the phone any better. i know it's not a bberry, but the 3g iphone has network issues operating on att 3G, where if the 3g is disabled, it works much better, just slow.

so perhaps it is indeed the implementation of att 3G

[Stang68]

2) The Bold was RIM's first 3G. RIM is very comfortable with CDMA--although the Storm will be RIM's first rev A device.

Actually, the Curve 8330 on VZW was their first 3G. And that works great.

[phikai]

Actually, the Curve 8330 on VZW was their first 3G. And that works great.

Wouldn't Rev. 0 be 2G or 2.5G....

Not entirely sure, but just a thought

[Pholey22]

Actually, the Curve 8330 on VZW was their first 3G. And that works great.

Actually, the BlackBerry 8830 World Edition (both CDMA and GSM) was the first 3G phone RIM made for Verizon. The Curve didn't come out until a bit later...on VZW that is.

[BigVDawgy]

Actually, the Curve 8330 on VZW was their first 3G. And that works great.

Verizon has had 3G EVDO Blackberries as far back as the 7250 model.

[wcjjjc]

Att 3G is not new and has been around for a few years now and has many phones and smartphones running 3G on them so HOW is it that all of a sudden with the iPhone and Bold there are so many network issues? 3G Moto Q,3G 8525,3G Tilt, 3G Treo,3G Blackjack,3G Razrs, is it because iPhone & Bold are new??

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Stang68]

Verizon has had 3G EVDO Blackberries as far back as the 7250 model.

Really? Wow, my bad, guys. But, still proves my point

[JRSCCivic98]

Verizon has had 3G EVDO Blackberries as far back as the 7250 model.

What he said.

[Pholey22]

Yeah, they were damn ugly back then too!!