[JoeT6681]

I'm using meterberry....I went from 40 startup to 34 mb available in 16 minutes. 11:14 I was at 40, 11:30 I was at 34. I did nothing during time, maybe 1 or 2 BB messages, I checked saved messages, then put down phone...what do you guys think really caused me to lose that much in that time? I have nothing running but the 5 apps, i have weatherbug updating every hour or 2, meterberry is logging my memory every 15 minutes, but I dont think meterberry would make me drop 6 MB just to put a small log in the application. what are your thoughts?

Running 132.

[graphic nature]

The best my phone gets is 26ish after batt. Pull then few hours later I'm at 8ish..... I've never owned a phone that requires so much matinence....I still wouldn't trade this phone for any other phone Verizon has.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[thearmybouncer]

So far I am having the same issue. I was booting up at around 45mb, and after about 12 hours was down to 25. With this new OS I am booting at 35 MB and dropping to about 22 to 25 mb. It has been going up and down all day. But the device is running super fast, so I guess I can deal with the memory loss.

[JoeT6681]

So far I am having the same issue. I was booting up at around 45mb, and after about 12 hours was down to 25. With this new OS I am booting at 35 MB and dropping to about 22 to 25 mb. It has been going up and down all day. But the device is running super fast, so I guess I can deal with the memory loss.

I agree, i'm going up and down as well. I was just at 40 a few minutes ago, I did not use the phone an entire half hour, I then checked, and I was at 35, then I waited another half hour, checked ant i'm back at 39...so I'm not sure if its something thats just updating...maybe weatherbug, or my work emails that are using app memory...etc. But i agree, i'll deal with this because 132 is really fast...and pictures load up faster than ever. Also the device is truly fine even when 14mb is left, Ive seen people NEVER look at their memory and the device is fine, and they'll have liek 12mb left. I think we over-rate memory way to much as these apps use kilobits of memory, not KILOBYTES...and 25mb is more than enough to run this phone

[domestic violence]

I recently deleted aim and iheartradio..... Memory hovers around 28-30mb now

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[JoeT6681]

I have i heart radio, and aim, but never use them..i dont think those are where the leaks are coming from.

[acidsamuraix]

its a small computer, it uses memory as it runs, stop watching it like a hawk, it's not that important. Life will become better, stress will relieve. It'll be ok. When the garbage collector runs, it'll get the unused memory back for you. That's just how the phone works.

[yapkuen]

I don't think it's abnormal for your memory to dip that amount immediately after startup. The amount you have free right when the phone boots is not really a good indicator of anything, since it's probably still allocating out memory to, at the very least, the Messages app and the Browser, which are always active in the app switcher. My memory usually drops about 8-9MB in the first half hour after I fire it up.

[JoeT6681]

its a small computer, it uses memory as it runs, stop watching it like a hawk, it's not that important. Life will become better, stress will relieve. It'll be ok. When the garbage collector runs, it'll get the unused memory back for you. That's just how the phone works.

Lol, thank you for the life lesson acid, you're actually more correct than you think. It's just a stupid phone.

Anyway, I dont have the mem cleaning automated, i figured that would be another thing slowing down my phone, so I manually clean it...maybe i should have mine automate cleaning ?

[mclarryjr]

Mine has always dropped 8mb in the first half hour after a reset I thinks thats the norm. Just set your meterberry to warn you when you drop below a certain point and have it restart. I have mine to go off when it drops below 20mb then I restart it this only happens once a day in the afternoon. And I have it restart in the middle of the night so I start the day off in the 40's.

[JoeT6681]

I do that as well..i just hate that i lose 5% to 15% on a restart...bothers me so I try to restart when the phone is plugged in mostly...that conserves batt during boot, then i unplug.

[m3grady2]

Yea that sounds pretty normal to me.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Pentarus]

I've stopped obsessing about memory...

I usually start at around 32MB and after a couple of days I'm down to 10MB or less... I used to do a battery pull to clean it up... Last week I let my Storm run for a full 6 days straight (Just upgraded to .132 so had to reboot obviously)... The memory actually dropped to less then 2MB at times but always seemed to bounce back... never above 10MB tho...

But the good news... I couldn't see any difference on performance!!!

[ryank311]

Lol, thank you for the life lesson acid, you're actually more correct than you think. It's just a stupid phone.

Anyway, I dont have the mem cleaning automated, i figured that would be another thing slowing down my phone, so I manually clean it...maybe i should have mine automate cleaning ?

According to the 4.7.0 Developer API:

public final class MemoryCleanerDaemon
extends Object

Allows security-sensitive applications to register listeners for cleaning sensitive information upon various device events.

The events responded to are in accordance with the settings specified in the security options for the MemoryCleaner application (such as being placed in the holster, or being idle for some amount of time).

I think you are confused as to what the memorycleaner actually does. The memorycleaner DOES NOT free memory, or garbage collect or affect the in-use memory in any way! The memorycleaner is simply used as a security tool to zero out the recently freed portions of memory so that it cannot be examined by another program, and data is kept safe. You shouldn't ever be using the memorycleaner unless it is for your job security. In all actuality, running the memorycleaner will slow down your blackberry while it is wasting CPU time running such relatively slow memory accesses.

You should never really be worried about "running out of memory" because if your phone goes to 0, it simply starts using swap. On top of that, unused memory is generally not freed and allocated unless it is needed, so your memory program will most likely not report accurate numbers at all.

If your phone is running too slow, close all the background applications like google-maps and the browser to free up CPU time. The only other possible explanation is that you are using a **** poorly coded theme (which there seem to be many of).

Seriously though, as a Computer Scientist, I would recommend that all of you people read up on how the Operating System and Java (The built in GarbageCollector and threading) actually work together before spouting nonsense and worrying about all these unnecessary things.

[bigandy603]

Mine is starting at around 12-15mb. During the day, without running apps, it's dropping to 1 or lower. Does BBMessanger or MemoryCleaner cause a leak? I am running .75.

[snork]

omg omg omg i boot up with 38mb and now im at 31mb! such a terrible thing. oh wait.. besides the difference in memory showing... my phone works the same.

unless you're phone is actually slowing down, stop worrying about it. its a waste of your time. seriously i could list 100 things you could do that would be better than complaining about memory usage.

[yapkuen]

You should never really be worried about "running out of memory" because if your phone goes to 0, it simply starts using swap.

I was under the impression that what the phone reports as "Application Memory" is the portion that is used as swap -- what happens if/when that hits zero?

[Giant Cashew]

I think you are confused as to what the memorycleaner actually does. The memorycleaner DOES NOT free memory, or garbage collect or affect the in-use memory in any way!

Often, you can very easily see an increase in free application memory after running the Memory Cleaner. I suspect this is because of the things that the Memory Cleaner "cleans", or because it also initiates the garbage collector. But RIM doesn't publish the details.

You should never really be worried about "running out of memory" because if your phone goes to 0, it simply starts using swap. On top of that, unused memory is generally not freed and allocated unless it is needed, so your memory program will most likely not report accurate numbers at all.

This is true, assuming you are referring to RAM. But when people say they have "run out of memory", they almost always mean "application memory" because the OS doesn't report RAM. What RIM refers to as "application memory" is a partition of the internal flash used for a) application storage and b) swap. This is the reason a) installing applications decreases the free application memory and b) the free application memory fluctuates as your phone is running.

Also, per RIM's garbage collection whitepaper, garbage collection is also initiated when the handheld is idle, in addition to emergency situations where more memory is needed.

[lewis584]

I'm dropping a good 6/8 mb shortly after booting up but I'm trying to avoid looking at it, the figure only REALLY matters if the phone starts running slow, if things are working fine, there's no need to check...

But while we are discussing 'checking', i've been hovering around 22-25mb... currently at 25.8mb No battery pull in 24 hours and LOTS of usage, not bad at all!

[Giant Cashew]

I'm dropping a good 6/8 mb shortly after booting up but I'm trying to avoid looking at it, the figure only REALLY matters if the phone starts running slow, if things are working fine, there's no need to check...

But while we are discussing 'checking', i've been hovering around 22-25mb... currently at 25.8mb No battery pull in 24 hours and LOTS of usage, not bad at all!

It's completely normal for it to drop after startup. Don't worry about it.

[ryank311]

Often, you can very easily see an increase in free application memory after running the Memory Cleaner. I suspect this is because of the things that the Memory Cleaner "cleans", or because it also initiates the garbage collector. But RIM doesn't publish the details.

First the memory cleaner "cleaning" is simply writing zeroes (or random bits, RIM doesn't specify) to recently de-allocated memory. Meaning that any memory that was "freed" was actually usable to the system to begin with.

This only goes to prove my point. The java garbage collector is only run when it is needed. So while the system may report a low amount of flash is available to the system, it is simply reporting how much is currently unallocated. In essence, that memory could very well be allocated but flagged to be garbage-collected (which is generally the case) but you would not be able to tell how much memory is actually available until after the garbage-collector is run.

This is true, assuming you are referring to RAM. But when people say they have "run out of memory", they almost always mean "application memory" because the OS doesn't report RAM. What RIM refers to as "application memory" is a partition of the internal flash used for a) application storage and b) swap. This is the reason a) installing applications decreases the free application memory and b) the free application memory fluctuates as your phone is running.

Also, per RIM's garbage collection whitepaper, garbage collection is also initiated when the handheld is idle, in addition to emergency situations where more memory is needed.

Flash memory is used for swap, yes, but the java garbage collector generally doesn't run until its actually needed. So the Flash memory that is reported should not be relied upon to give exact numbers on how much memory is actually available to the system. Infact, this improves performance for the java virtual machine because the garbage collector is not as fast as manual memory management (using delete or whatever the java equivalent is).

In essence, you shouldn't ever worry about your phone running out of memory, because once the Flash goes to 0 and another memory allocation is requested, the garbage collector will run, and memory will be freed for your application. Infact, I generally never reset my phone (probably once every 2 or 3 weeks when I accidentally run the battery dead), and the only time that you would ever notice a performance decrease is for the minute or so while the garbage collector is running.

And btw, the system does report ram in the net.rim.device.api.system.Memory package with :static MemoryStats getRAMStats().

[phareone21]

Memory is always fluctuating. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Though it could be the theme you are using. Sometimes it drops a lot in the first 20 minutes or so as the phone get set up.

[anon(34771)]

The new Facebook app murders my free memory...absolutely kills it. Once I installed .113 I was at 40mb for the first time since I had the phone.

Just installed Facebook 1.5 and my phone is down to 30mb by 11am...end of the day Im at 20mb.

If I deleted WeatherBug and put the old Facebook back on...Id be rockin mid 40's all day every day.

But I use WeatherBug all the time...so its not an option at the moment

[Giant Cashew]

First the memory cleaner "cleaning" is simply writing zeroes (or random bits, RIM doesn't specify) to recently de-allocated memory. Meaning that any memory that was "freed" was actually usable to the system to begin with.

This only goes to prove my point. The java garbage collector is only run when it is needed. So while the system may report a low amount of flash is available to the system, it is simply reporting how much is currently unallocated. In essence, that memory could very well be allocated but flagged to be garbage-collected (which is generally the case) but you would not be able to tell how much memory is actually available until after the garbage-collector is run.



Flash memory is used for swap, yes, but the java garbage collector generally doesn't run until its actually needed. So the Flash memory that is reported should not be relied upon to give exact numbers on how much memory is actually available to the system. Infact, this improves performance for the java virtual machine because the garbage collector is not as fast as manual memory management (using delete or whatever the java equivalent is).

In essence, you shouldn't ever worry about your phone running out of memory, because once the Flash goes to 0 and another memory allocation is requested, the garbage collector will run, and memory will be freed for your application. Infact, I generally never reset my phone (probably once every 2 or 3 weeks when I accidentally run the battery dead), and the only time that you would ever notice a performance decrease is for the minute or so while the garbage collector is running.

And btw, the system does report ram in the net.rim.device.api.system.Memory package with :static MemoryStats getRAMStats().

I agree with you in general. The "free" memory reported by the OS under Options -> Memory is only unallocated memory. Memory that has recently been de-allocated but not yet garbage collected can make the free memory appear lower.

Java doesn't have a delete equivalent, all memory is recovered by the garbage collector. The garbage collector definitely runs when the handheld is idle, in addition to emergency situations when memory is needed but there is none. You can observe that the free memory reported by the OS increases when your phone is idle, even though it never reached zero.

Generally speaking, the phone almost never reaches zero free memory unless there is a problem. If this happens, chances are you have either installed too many applications or you have a severe memory leak. Neither of which the garbage collector will help with. And yes, it is possible to have a memory leak even with the Java garbage collector. But what most people consider memory leaks are not. Plus, at least with the Storm, things run extremely sluggish once the free memory drops into single digits.

PS: When I said the OS doesn't report RAM, I meant through its UI that everyone sees. I am aware you can retrieve RAM information using the Memory class.

[yapkuen]

So what kind of observations would be needed to establish whether something is a true memory "leak"? Free memory drops when idle and never fluctuates upward? Or does it have to drop by a certain amount in a given period of idleness? Or is there never really any way to truly gauge whether there is a memory leak, since what the UI reports as the free memory level is not really an accurate measure of the available memory, as ryank says?