[johnnyuk]

I currently have around 50 BES5 CALs traded up to BES10.0 CALs with BB10 devices running against them on a BES10.0 server.

Can anyone confirm either way that those BES10.0 CALs are going to expire and stop working by the 1st of Jan 2014 if I don't trade them up to BES10.1 CALs?

Posted via CB10

[HotFix]

I suggest you talk to your sales rep/POV. If you do you have one I can ask mine on your behalf.

Posted via CB10

[wayne504]

I was told by BlackBerry support that the licenses would not expire even though it shows an expiration date.

Also, even with an annual license the active devices will still function after the license has expired. You will not be able to activate or reactivate a device though.

That being said, why not upgrade to 10.1?
Posted via CB10

[johnnyuk]

I suggest you talk to your sales rep/POV. If you do you have one I can ask mine on your behalf.

Posted via CB10

Yes please if you wouldn't mind, would be good to know for sure if you could ask the question, thanks.

Posted via CB10

[johnnyuk]

I was told by BlackBerry support that the licenses would not expire even though it shows an expiration date.

Also, even with an annual license the active devices will still function after the license has expired. You will not be able to activate or reactivate a device though.

That being said, why not upgrade to 10.1?
Posted via CB10

That would be good if it's the case, in 10.0 CALs don't show an expiry date, that came in 10.1.0

I haven't upgrade to 10.1 yet because if you started with Mobile Fusion last year with BDS and UDS on separate servers it's an absolute cluster f**** of an upgrade.

I did it in test with 10.1 and 10.1.1 and both times it left me with servers and devices that no longer worked. I'm hoping the installation fixes in 10.1.2 have sorted that out but I'm not holding my breath.

Posted via CB10

[wayne504]

That would be good if it's the case, in 10.0 CALs don't show an expiry date, that came in 10.1.0

I haven't upgrade to 10.1 yet because if you started with Mobile Fusion last year with BDS and UDS on separate servers it's an absolute cluster f**** of an upgrade.

I did it in test with 10.1 and 10.1.1 and both times it left me with servers and devices that no longer worked. I'm hoping the installation fixes in 10.1.2 have sorted that out but I'm not holding my breath.

Posted via CB10

OK, makes sense. I did my server as BDS only until they could be installed together. Are you running VM'S? If so, you might want to look into getting a new srp, doing an all in one install and migrate all of your users to the new server.

Posted via CB10

[johnnyuk]

OK, makes sense. I did my server as BDS only until they could be installed together. Are you running VM'S? If so, you might want to look into getting a new srp, doing an all in one install and migrate all of your users to the new server.

Posted via CB10

That's already the plan if the upgrade in testing ends up being another #BlackBerryFail but I need to know how long I have to migrate the users to the new server before or if the CALs expire. Could only have a month left you see.

Posted via CB10

[wayne504]

That's already the plan if the upgrade in testing ends up being another #BlackBerryFail but I need to know how long I have to migrate the users to the new server before or if the CALs expire. Could only have a month left you see.

Posted via CB10

Do you not have a service agreement? If you do you can call BlackBerry, otherwise you can follow my first post and take a chance.

Posted via CB10

[johnnyuk]

Do you not have a service agreement? If you do you can call BlackBerry, otherwise you can follow my first post and take a chance.

Posted via CB10

Nope, public sector, no cash lol

HotFix did you get chance to ask the question?

Posted via CB10

[deebo550]

i thought i remembered that as long as your bes5 to bes10 license is activated then it wont go to waste.

[HotFix]

Nope, public sector, no cash lol

HotFix did you get chance to ask the question?

Posted via CB10

I just did. I would have done it earlier today but I was busy with a bunch of things.

FYI I an public sector too.

Posted via CB10

[johnnyuk]

I just did. I would have done it earlier today but I was busy with a bunch of things.

FYI I an public sector too.

Posted via CB10

Great, thanks for taking the time to help me find out where things stand.

Posted via CB10

[HotFix]

Here is the reply from my rep who pulled this information from their portal:
18. Will the customer ever be forced to upgrade from BES10 v10.0 to BES10 v10.1?
? No. The customer will be able to continue with BES10 v10.0. However, customers that require the features of BES10 v10.1 or customers that require new BES10 CALs for new BES10 users after the end of the Trade-Up program will need to upgrade.
19. Will BES10 v10.0 Trade-Up CALs work with BES10 v10.1?
? BES10 Server Software v10.1 requires BES10 EMM v10.1 CALs. BES10 v10.0 CALs will not work with BES10.1. A BES10 v10.0 Interim CAL can be migrated to a BES10 v10.1 Interim CAL. Interim CALs will expire at the end of the Trade-Up program. Permanent CALs will be issued to Trade-Up customers who have activated a BlackBerry 10 device on a BES10 server before December 31, 2013. These new permanent CALs will be issued in Q1, 2014.
? Permanent BES10 v10.1CALs issued via Trade-Up will initially show an expiry date of March 31st, 2014. If these CALs are activated with BlackBerry 10 devices before December 31st, 2013, they will not expire.
20. Will the permanent CALs which replace Trade-Up interim CALs work on both BES10 v10.0 and BES10 v10.1?
? No, BES10 CALs are version specific and are not interchangeable between BES10 v10.0 and BES10 v10.1
21. Can a customer use an Interim BES10 v10.1 EMM Corporate for BlackBerry Perpetual Trade-Up CAL for iOS and Android devices?
? No. CALs Traded-Up from BES 5 (or earlier CALs) can only be used with BlackBerry devices. Upon completion of the Trade-Up program, new permanent EMM Corporate CALs will be issued for CALs with activated BlackBerry 10 devices. These permanent CALs which replace the interim Trade-Up CALs will be able to be used for BlackBerry 10 (and BlackBerry PlayBook) devices only.
? However, purchased BES10 EMM Corporate v10.1 Annual CALs can be used across multiple devices (i.e. BlackBerry, iOS and Android).

I think this answers your question. You should be good provided you follow up on your intermim CALs and get the permanent versions.

Posted via CB10

[Sith_Apprentice]

Also, once a CAL expires you can still use it. What cannot happen is you reactivate a device, remove or add a device etc. So if you have 50 CALs, and 50 devices, you are fine as long as nothing changes. Once you need to reactivate a device, or wipe a device, etc, then you are no longer in compliance, and you will be unable to do so until you get back in compliance. (this is for when CALs expire, or your move CALs from a system that has devices, etc.)

[johnnyuk]

Thanks HotFix for your efforts!

Sounds to me though that although my current BDS CALs for 10.0 won't expire, to be able to take advantage of the free trade up to 10.1 CALs then I DO have to get the 10.1 upgrade in, CALs migrated and devices activated by the end if this month.

Posted via CB10

[HotFix]

Thanks HotFix for your efforts!

Sounds to me though that although my current BDS CALs for 10.0 won't expire, to be able to take advantage of the free trade up to 10.1 CALs then I DO have to get the 10.1 upgrade in, CALs migrated and devices activated by the end if this month.

Posted via CB10

Its possible depending on how that is written. However I think BlackBerry would be shooting themselves in the foot if they upset their existing BES 10 customers. FYI This is from their FAQ (which I am attaching):
Will BTSS customers with Advantage level or higher
support levels be provided with a CAL promotion after
December 31, 2013?
After December 31, 2013 the promotion available to the general
market will be shut down and will be moved into the BESC which will
allow Advantage level and higher BTSS customers continued access
to trade in BES 5 (and earlier) Perpetual CALs.
BTSS Advantage level or higher customers will be notified of the
aforementioned change in May 2013 which will provide a 1 year
advance notice of the Trade Up Program termination.
The terms of the extended trade up promotion will remain the
same. The interim CAL issued will expire at the end of the extended
program and that time, permanent perpetual BES 10 CALs will be
issued based on the number of BlackBerry 10 devices attached.

If you are public sector, you have a BB sales rep even if you don't know who they are and I suggest you reach out to them. If you don't know where to start, you can PM me your information (including who you work for) and I will forward it to my sales rep to get you in the right hands.

Meanwhile if you can upgrade to BES 10.2 before the end of the year, I highly recommend you do as 10.2 promises to be a very nice improvement.

[anon(2523636)]

Also, once a CAL expires you can still use it. What cannot happen is you reactivate a device, remove or add a device etc. So if you have 50 CALs, and 50 devices, you are fine as long as nothing changes. Once you need to reactivate a device, or wipe a device, etc, then you are no longer in compliance, and you will be unable to do so until you get back in compliance. (this is for when CALs expire, or your move CALs from a system that has devices, etc.)

I was told by a BB insider that that is the current position because they are not a 100% sure of the activation/replacement process working faultlessly. They don't want the PR disaster that would be devices stopping working for 000s of users because their CAL activation systems failed.
CAL hard expiry is likely to appear in the future once they have gone through a 'soft' expiry cycle.

[HotFix]

FYI - I just got this in email from BB:
-----
It’s time to make
your temporary
licenses permanent

Thank you for participating in the License
Trade Up Program – the program that allows
you to trade up your existing BlackBerry�
Enterprise Server (BES) licenses on a
one-for-one basis for free, when you purchase
and activate BlackBerry� 10 devices on
BlackBerry� Enterprise Service 10 (BES10)
by December 31, 2013.

In order to convert the temporary BES10
licenses you have received through the
License Trade Up Program, to permanent
BES10 licenses*, you must activate your
BlackBerry 10 devices on BES10
before December 31, 2013.

The license reconciliation process
will begin January 2014 and once we have
verified that the fulfillment conditions of the
program have been met, you will be notified
with instructions on how to claim your permanent licenses.
-----
So it looks like they are serious about the deadline except for the customers with the special support as outlined in the PDF I attached previously.

[dpeters11]

The new SA if you don't have that level of support (I use Vox Mobile) is $14 per BES 5 license. That's MSRP.

[johnnyuk]

FYI - I just got this in email from BB:

So it looks like they are serious about the deadline except for the customers with the special support as outlined in the PDF I attached previously.

I got the same email last night. We don't have Advantage Support or higher so it would seem I have to get up to BES10.1 before the end of the month to end up with free perpetual CALs.

Fingers crossed my 10.0 BDS server upgrades OK so I can get my CALs migrated to the newer 10.1 type or I'll have to build a new server and get my 50 devices reactivated.

10.2 coming out is a timely bonus, I like the sound of the Self Service Portal. Anybody tried it out yet?

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[johnnyuk]

Things are looking promising in testing. Built a VM test 10.0 server with one Z10 on it and successfully upgraded to 10.1.2 (the newest version you can upgrade from 10.0 to) migrated a CAL and then upgraded to 10.2

The activated phone was happy once each new version was up and running, even when their were no licences installed so it proves previous activations keep working, you just can't activate new phones until you have CALs available.

I was also able to roll back to snapshots of 10.1.2 and 10.0 too without losing the phone activation and functionality. That's important in case when I do the live server it doesn't go smoothly. Previously it didn't go smoothly in testing when upgrading from10.0 to 10.1 and 10.1.1 so that's why I've held off. Looks like they did squash the install bugs with 10.1.2

I'll let you know here how the live server upgrade goes. Looks like the most time consuming thing will be migrating the CALs as we have a lot of single user CALs. I reckon I can migrate those in advance so I'm not having to do it during the server upgrade, just put the activation IDs in once I'm at 10.1.2 or 10.2, shouldn't matter which version.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[johnnyuk]

I'm starting the upgrade in 5 hours, may the BES gods be on my side today!

Maybe I should sacrifice an old 8700 with a hammer just to appease them.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[johnnyuk]

BES10.1.2 installed smoothly, devices still working.

Upgrade to BES10.2 in progress...

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[HotFix]

BES10.1.2 installed smoothly, devices still working.

Upgrade to BES10.2 in progress...

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

The only substantial system change
we read noticed going from 10.1.3 to 10.2 was almost all of the services on the server changed names and or were replaced completely.

Fingers crossed for you here.

Posted via CB10

[johnnyuk]

Ok things have not gone so smoothly upgrading from 10.1.2 to 10.2

Activated devices on BDS are still working but:

1) I can't login to the BAS console for BDS, the web page starts to load but shows "The BlackBerry Administration Service is starting. Please wait while the loading process completes.", but it sticks on "Loading..." and never loads the login page.

2) The BMS console only allows me to login using Direct Authentication, not Active Directory authentication. I can't login with any AD accounts that are setup in BDS despite there being a few that are specifically setup at Security Administrator so that I could sort out the licences. I can only login with local accounts I create in UDS but unsurprisingly the "Licensing server is not available" if I log in with one of those users.

3) The BDS Service doesn't show up at all in BMS either under the Services tab or the Select Service drop down filter on the Users tab, so unsurprisingly none of the users with their activated devices are showing up either. UDS is the only Service available in BMS.

Tried restarting the services and a whole server restart, didn't help.

These problems weren't present when I was at the BES10.1.2 stage, I could login to both BAS for BDS and BMS with the AD accounts that already existed in BDS from its 10.0 guise. Also these two problems did not happen on my test going from 10.0 to 10.1.2 to 10.2 just as I have done this evening.

I'm tempted to revert the VM back to 10.1.2 so that I can carry on migrating and assigning licences and then possibly migrate users over time to a new server install that actually works but I'll have a look through here and the BlackBerry KB articles for similar tales of woe first.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK