05-01-11 06:28 PM
26 12
tools
  1. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    Hi guys, I have a BlackBerry, however I don't have access to the resources such a Lotus Domino, Exchange, BES, and of course a compatible computer.

    Therefore I was wondering if there was any company I could use who I could get a BES solution up and running without charge. I want it to be done legally, and I want control over what my BlackBerry can and can't do (it will only ever be supporting a maximum of two devices at once, my main phone and my backup phone).

    What this would mean is greater control over my BlackBerry, and making sure they run off a central server which allows the two devices to bounce off each other (I hope!).

    Anyone got any help?
    02-05-11 02:13 PM
  2. damianlynch's Avatar
    There are plent of companies which provide hosted exchange facilities however these do come at a cost.
    Servers doing the hosting do require maintenance.

    Also to have a bes function requires so effort on their part, although most hosted exchanges will prodive this.

    Prices will vary so shop around but I would be suspicious of any that seem too cheap.

    As for free you would have to wonder where is the compromise?
    If you give away all these services for free how do you stay in business?
    You really don't want to side up with someone wih an unsustainable business model. They will fold.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-05-11 03:27 PM
  3. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    As for free you would have to wonder where is the compromise?
    If you give away all these services for free how do you stay in business?
    You really don't want to side up with someone wih an unsustainable business model. They will fold.
    Freewebs, a popular company I use, power the sites with ads, and limit the features you can use. They could use ads for free users, and remove them for paying users while also providing extra features and functionality for them.

    The company is still in business now, and I believe they have been around for 15 years. That business model works. I need a free solution as I just CANNOT afford a paid solution. As a consumer.
    02-05-11 03:35 PM
  4. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Freewebs, a popular company I use, power the sites with ads, and limit the features you can use. They could use ads for free users, and remove them for paying users while also providing extra features and functionality for them.

    The company is still in business now, and I believe they have been around for 15 years. That business model works. I need a free solution as I just CANNOT afford a paid solution. As a consumer.
    How does that relate to Exchange/BES hosting?

    Does the business model push advertisements to your email accounts? That can't be blocked via a spam filter?
    Does the business model sell your usage data?

    How can a free service like exhange/BES hosting maintain profitablity?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-06-11 07:22 AM
  5. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    How does that relate to Exchange/BES hosting?
    While not technically related to BES hosting, as they're a web hosting company for websites. I was just saying something similar could be done.

    Does the business model push advertisements to your email accounts? That can't be blocked via a spam filter?
    Personally, I couldn't care less if that was the case...

    Does the business model sell your usage data?
    Would depend on who they sell it to to determine whether or not I would be happy with it.

    How can a free service like exhange/BES hosting maintain profitability?
    You've made 2 great suggestions up there. Either of those solutions could work
    02-06-11 07:54 AM
  6. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    A business model based on advertising has to generate income from the sale of goods being advertised.
    The challenge of a compnay as small as a echange/BES hosting company is high hardware, and software costs, which means per user costs are higher than that of a hosted web service or a webmail service.

    How much do you consume from web advertising? Or email advertising? Both of those mediums are based on high volume users to be successful,

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-06-11 08:11 AM
  7. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    I would like to update the situation here. I was able to use MSDNAA (Microsoft Academic Alliance) and as an Informatics student at Bradford, I was able to obtain a FREE copy of Windows 7, Windows Server 2008, and Microsoft Exchange. I have also ordered BESX, so yea, it's looking GOOD! I did get my free solution AFTER all, I just have to use my tower unit I have at home when it's fixed.
    03-20-11 06:29 PM
  8. diegonei's Avatar
    Well, since you didn't seem to understand what the others posters said, I'll try to make is simple for you.

    Providing free web hosting is easy and cheap. Providing a BES solution is very expensive. You have all the costs of a web hosting PLUS you need to host and constantly update MS Exchange (Which is neither free nor cheap. MSDNAA won't cut here since the company is not a student), and the BES solution (have you checked how much a full fledge premium BES goes for?). Add to the mix the proper professionals and you end up with a huge monthly bill that can't really be paid by adds... Unless your company is called Google.

    BESX lowers those numbers a little, so we might start seeing more companies jump in (hey, didn't Microsoft just do that?).

    I would like to update the situation here. I was able to use MSDNAA (Microsoft Academic Alliance) and as an Informatics student at Bradford, I was able to obtain a FREE copy of Windows 7, Windows Server 2008, and Microsoft Exchange. I have also ordered BESX, so yea, it's looking GOOD! I did get my free solution AFTER all, I just have to use my tower unit I have at home when it's fixed.
    You gotta love MSDNAA. Too bad my college never bothered with them... ><

    Good luck setting it up. It might be free but it sure isn't as easy as installing Windows 7.

    Also, reconsider your reply strategy. Annoying the people that can actually provide you with good advise is not the best way to go around.
    03-20-11 06:47 PM
  9. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    Well, since you didn't seem to understand what the others posters said, I'll try to make is simple for you.

    Providing free web hosting is easy and cheap. Providing a BES solution is very expensive. You have all the costs of a web hosting PLUS you need to host and constantly update MS Exchange (Which is neither free nor cheap. MSDNAA won't cut here since the company is not a student), and the BES solution (have you checked how much a full fledge premium BES goes for?). Add to the mix the proper professionals and you end up with a huge monthly bill that can't really be paid by adds... Unless your company is called Google.

    BESX lowers those numbers a little, so we might start seeing more companies jump in (hey, didn't Microsoft just do that?).



    You gotta love MSDNAA. Too bad my college never bothered with them... ><

    Good luck setting it up. It might be free but it sure isn't as easy as installing Windows 7.

    Also, reconsider your reply strategy. Annoying the people that can actually provide you with good advise is not the best way to go around.
    Thanks mate, I was being a bit stubborn that was all. I just couldn't afford to pay for the software and stuff... But it's all resolved now. I'll probably call on the BES experts when it comes to setting up the server. I have the software, just need a couple of blank DVDs to install the stuff on xD

    Windows 7 should be a breeze, can't wait to upgrade from Vistripe...
    03-20-11 07:13 PM
  10. DangerMouseUK's Avatar
    Hey bit more background,

    You don't really need Windows 7 - good that you got a copy as well, why not go wild anyway,

    Windows Server 2008 R2 + Exchange + BESX (alternatively Lotus Domino works)

    You will need to set them up in that order as well, before setting up Exchange, get your domain's MX records pointed to the box so it can handle the mail.

    Factor in that the box will need to be on 24x7 if it is a mailserver, ideally co-locate it somewhere, or try to avoid using DSL/CABLE based home broadband systems, if you live in halls which is a punt in the dark, but with you being a student it is possible, make sure they don't block the ports, if it is at home on a broadband connection, make sure you have a static IP as MX records won't point to a dynamic hostname provider.

    If you get stuck in any of it give me a shout, nicely, lol, done extensive BES and BESX setups and even setup BIS at network level, so I'll be happy to point you in the right direction.
    pkcable likes this.
    03-20-11 09:20 PM
  11. diegonei's Avatar
    You know, it just came to me... Now that BlackBerry Protect is out for a good share of the world (Europe included), the need for an individual to actually go for the trouble of setting up a BES/BESX is a lot lower...
    03-20-11 09:44 PM
  12. iN8ter's Avatar
    I would like to update the situation here. I was able to use MSDNAA (Microsoft Academic Alliance) and as an Informatics student at Bradford, I was able to obtain a FREE copy of Windows 7, Windows Server 2008, and Microsoft Exchange. I have also ordered BESX, so yea, it's looking GOOD! I did get my free solution AFTER all, I just have to use my tower unit I have at home when it's fixed.
    That's a pretty terrible solution. No one runs any email account that they actually depend on off of a PC and I doubt you have to infrastructure/equipment to give it 75%+ uptime... much less the 99.99+% uptime third party hosts offer. Microsoft gives those licenses for testing and development, they aren't usable for hosting services publicly facing the internet. For example, you cannot use that Windows Server 2008 to host a public Small Business website, and Exchange to host dozens for mail accounts for employees. Older people go to school too, and it would be much less costly to just enroll in a few credit hours and get those licenses for free than pay Microsoft for them. They aren't dumb enough to leave such gaping loopholes in the system... Read the license...

    BES hosting is hardly free. It runs on top of Exchange and BES licenses are not cheap (they cost more than Exchange Licenses in most cases). If you get BES form a company, you most likely have to get Exchange hosting form them as well, and 9/10 the BES cost is higher than the Exchange mailbox.

    It's typically $9.99-15 a month for BES on top of Exchange (typically $6.00-8.99 a month or so for a single mailbox).

    And before someone mentions the recent Microsoft stuff... Microsoft's first party Exchange hosting is for businesses and you have to purchase and licenses in bulk. I think 25 Licenses is the smallest amount you can get.
    Last edited by N8ter; 03-21-11 at 06:31 AM.
    03-21-11 06:28 AM
  13. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    That's a pretty terrible solution. No one runs any email account that they actually depend on off of a PC and I doubt you have to infrastructure/equipment to give it 75%+ uptime... much less the 99.99+% uptime third party hosts offer. Microsoft gives those licenses for testing and development, they aren't usable for hosting services publicly facing the internet. For example, you cannot use that Windows Server 2008 to host a public Small Business website, and Exchange to host dozens for mail accounts for employees. Older people go to school too, and it would be much less costly to just enroll in a few credit hours and get those licenses for free than pay Microsoft for them. They aren't dumb enough to leave such gaping loopholes in the system... Read the license...

    BES hosting is hardly free. It runs on top of Exchange and BES licenses are not cheap (they cost more than Exchange Licenses in most cases). If you get BES form a company, you most likely have to get Exchange hosting form them as well, and 9/10 the BES cost is higher than the Exchange mailbox.

    It's typically $9.99-15 a month for BES on top of Exchange (typically $6.00-8.99 a month or so for a single mailbox).

    And before someone mentions the recent Microsoft stuff... Microsoft's first party Exchange hosting is for businesses and you have to purchase and licenses in bulk. I think 25 Licenses is the smallest amount you can get.

    you completely Neglect to comment on BESX which is free, for small user groups of 2000 or less, 75 or less if running on the same server as the Exchange, so for a single user or a few family membered BESX is a great solution if you happen to have a MS Server with Exchange running in the household, ( surprisingly I know 2 families that do...)

    but I do agree as a very amateur user, getting a Server up and running and maintaining it is going to be very hard, and you wont get the uptime reliability you want,
    03-21-11 07:19 AM
  14. anon(51467)'s Avatar
    As far as I know, RIM still specifically states BES or BESX will not run on the Exchange server, it must be on a second machine or a virtual machine. I recall trying this with BESX and the installer would stop when it found Exchange on the server.

    As others have said, Echange or Domino with BES/X for a hobbyist or network amateur is quite a load of trouble. You will get help and guidance here, but know that this is a daunting task to get up and running properly.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-21-11 08:25 AM
  15. iN8ter's Avatar
    you completely Neglect to comment on BESX which is free, for small user groups of 2000 or less, 75 or less if running on the same server as the Exchange, so for a single user or a few family membered BESX is a great solution if you happen to have a MS Server with Exchange running in the household, ( surprisingly I know 2 families that do...)

    but I do agree as a very amateur user, getting a Server up and running and maintaining it is going to be very hard, and you wont get the uptime reliability you want,
    BESx doesn't matter in this case.

    I didn't mention it because:

    1. Exchange hosts don't use BESx

    2. BESx in his scenario is not a factor because he cannot use that Windows Server/Exchange Server license to host a production purposes - which is what this would be.

    Windows SBS costs ~$499 which is over 2 years of Exchange + BES hosting (esp. when you factor in electricity, etc.) form a reputable third party with top notch reliability and redundancy, not to mention very good spam filters among other things.

    You cannot match the quality and reliability of a reputable (and relatively cheap) third party running your own infrastructure in your house.

    Also, many ISPs do not allow you to run servers from a residential internet connection and can/will block the ports if they feel the need/want to. The Small Business next door most likely doesn't have the same type of phone or internet service you have in your house, especially if they are running servers in-house.
    Last edited by N8ter; 03-21-11 at 09:16 AM.
    03-21-11 09:13 AM
  16. Tiassa's Avatar
    On the other hand, My cable ISP will sell you a fixed IP address (which also includes leaving open ports 25 and 80). You can get Lotus Domino Express licensees for not a lot of money, I run the Domino Server on a Linux box and the BESX (because RIM insists that the Domino Mail server and BESX must be on different boxes) on a Windows server 2003, which I picked up for not a lot of money ($200 for the hardware from Micro center, and I bought 2K3 in shrinkwrap on eBay -- "obsolete" MS operating systems are really cheap, a quick search shows you can also buy 2K3 and hardware for a couple of hundred (but those are used boxes, you never know how "used" they were.
    All legitimate, licensed software and I probably spent less than $500 --but since the OP wanted "Free" I figured he wouldn't be interested.
    03-21-11 09:55 AM
  17. MrObvious's Avatar
    How does BES connect to Exchange? I ask because I remember when I had Windows Mobile I set up a way to use ActiveSync over Apache and PHP but I can't remember the name. Anyway I was wondering if it would work. Does BESX connect via ActiveSync or does it connect directly to the server's EXE?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-21-11 02:30 PM
  18. anon(51467)'s Avatar
    How does BES connect to Exchange? I ask because I remember when I had Windows Mobile I set up a way to use ActiveSync over Apache and PHP but I can't remember the name. Anyway I was wondering if it would work. Does BESX connect via ActiveSync or does it connect directly to the server's EXE?
    BESX is a service that uses MAPI to connect with the Exchange host. It also uses permissions of Send-As and Receive-As for your BESX enabled users/mailboxes. It uses Active Directory for other items like knowing where the Exchange server is and who the users are etc. Finally BESX uses a key from RIM to send the email, calendars, contacts out to the handsets.

    I am pretty sure you could not cobble something together in php and active sync to do the same.
    03-21-11 03:03 PM
  19. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    As far as I know, RIM still specifically states BES or BESX will not run on the Exchange server, it must be on a second machine or a virtual machine. I recall trying this with BESX and the installer would stop when it found Exchange on the server.

    As others have said, Echange or Domino with BES/X for a hobbyist or network amateur is quite a load of trouble. You will get help and guidance here, but know that this is a daunting task to get up and running properly.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    http://us.blackberry.com/apps-softwa...quirements.pdf

    the first item in Hardware states
    75 users can be run from the SAME machine as the exchange server.
    so you CAN install BESX on the same machine.
    03-21-11 04:51 PM
  20. pkcable's Avatar
    Moved to BB Admins Forum
    03-21-11 09:04 PM
  21. MrObvious's Avatar
    http://us.blackberry.com/apps-softwa...quirements.pdf

    the first item in Hardware states
    75 users can be run from the SAME machine as the exchange server.
    so you CAN install BESX on the same machine.
    I ask because this setup works in Linux: FrontPage - SynCE Wiki
    03-22-11 04:20 PM
  22. anon(51467)'s Avatar
    http://us.blackberry.com/apps-softwa...quirements.pdf

    the first item in Hardware states
    75 users can be run from the SAME machine as the exchange server.
    so you CAN install BESX on the same machine.
    I stand corrected.

    Apparently RIM states it is not advised to do that. I know BlackBerry Pro definitely would not install directly on the exchange server. I did install my BESX on a second server in my office as suggested per RIM.
    03-22-11 04:40 PM
  23. DangerMouseUK's Avatar
    Nothing to see here move along
    Last edited by DangerMouseUK; 03-25-11 at 10:44 AM. Reason: Problem Fixed by RIM
    diegonei likes this.
    03-24-11 07:12 PM
  24. DangerMouseUK's Avatar
    As an addition there is now another problem affecting RIM / BESx which is with the issuing of SRPs

    If you get an SRP when registering for BESx - set it all up then find the phones can't talk to it over the mobile network, its because RIM have setup the SRPs incorrectly.

    Possibly due to them tinkering with the service books from the first fault, who knows, but, generate SRPs at your peril over the next few days ! They might not work !

    Anymore info needed, PM me or contact RIM escalation team, they are aware of it and will fly off an internal memo to the network ops people who deal with SRP connectivity.
    03-25-11 12:53 PM
  25. Denny_Crane's Avatar
    It's typically $9.99-15 a month for BES on top of Exchange (typically $6.00-8.99 a month or so for a single mailbox).
    I use GoDaddy as they only charge $10/month for hosted Exchange with BES. I've used them for 4 months now and aside from their sub-par support when trying to set it up initially, the service has been great.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-13-11 02:28 AM
26 12
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD