10-04-13 11:02 PM
38 12
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  1. ecaffeine's Avatar
    My IT department (large company) posted this on their website as a disclaimer for all BB10 devices...

    -> Mail delivery to and from BlackBerry 10 devices can take a few minutes. It may be longer than you are accustomed to with your current device.

    When I asked them they responded with the following:

    "BES no longer pushes the message. BES10 does not use the Blackberry NOC or the Blackberry network. It uses Exchange ActiveSync. BES 10 only provides device management, not mail delivery.

    And no, the mail delays will not be fixed anytime soon either. Blackberry is aware of it, but because it no longer works through the NOC or the Blackberry network, itís a current limitation."


    I don't think this is true... but wanted to see what others had to say on the matter because I am not very familiar with the details of the inner workings of the enterprise software...

    Would greatly appreciate your input because I am very unhappy with the length of time it took them to allow BB10 devices and this disclaimer that discourages people from buying them...
    09-20-13 02:22 PM
  2. TheUnknownUser's Avatar
    I've personally not been getting any delays outside of the Microsoft Active sync issue, and that was on Microsoft's end and not BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    09-20-13 02:32 PM
  3. tlegend2012's Avatar
    My IT department (large company) posted this on their website as a disclaimer for all BB10 devices...

    -> Mail delivery to and from BlackBerry 10 devices can take a few minutes. It may be longer than you are accustomed to with your current device.

    When I asked them they responded with the following:

    "BES no longer pushes the message. BES10 does not use the Blackberry NOC or the Blackberry network. It uses Exchange ActiveSync. BES 10 only provides device management, not mail delivery.

    And no, the mail delays will not be fixed anytime soon either. Blackberry is aware of it, but because it no longer works through the NOC or the Blackberry network, it’s a current limitation."


    I don't think this is true... but wanted to see what others had to say on the matter because I am not very familiar with the details of the inner workings of the enterprise software...

    Would greatly appreciate your input because I am very unhappy with the length of time it took them to allow BB10 devices and this disclaimer that discourages people from buying them...
    I'm using a regular activesync on exchange 2010... and I get my emails on my phone before I get them on outlook... I have no Idea where they got this from..
    09-20-13 02:32 PM
  4. mooda's Avatar
    There is a noticable delay but that is a limitation on Activsync VS BES + NOC.

    sometimes my BES10 phone gets the messages at the same time as my BES5 one does others it takes up to a full minute before it comes through.

    email is more like email on BES 10 where as it was more like IM on BES 5

    that is just what i have noticed..... though the BB10 phones are right on par with the Iphones we have
    09-20-13 02:34 PM
  5. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    My IT department (large company) posted this on their website as a disclaimer for all BB10 devices...

    -> Mail delivery to and from BlackBerry 10 devices can take a few minutes. It may be longer than you are accustomed to with your current device.

    When I asked them they responded with the following:

    "BES no longer pushes the message. BES10 does not use the Blackberry NOC or the Blackberry network. It uses Exchange ActiveSync. BES 10 only provides device management, not mail delivery.

    And no, the mail delays will not be fixed anytime soon either. Blackberry is aware of it, but because it no longer works through the NOC or the Blackberry network, it’s a current limitation."


    I don't think this is true... but wanted to see what others had to say on the matter because I am not very familiar with the details of the inner workings of the enterprise software...

    Would greatly appreciate your input because I am very unhappy with the length of time it took them to allow BB10 devices and this disclaimer that discourages people from buying them...
    Get a new IT Department, they don't seem to understand the issue. BES10 is more MDM than email.
    09-20-13 03:05 PM
  6. ecaffeine's Avatar
    Thanks for your responses everyone.

    Our IT department further clarified...

    --Are you saying that emails may come in slower than you are used to compared to BB7 devices and NOT compared to iphones/android/windows phones? Do other smartphones use Exchange Activesync as well?

    "I’m saying both. They definitely come in slower than the BB7/BES 5 legacy infrastructure, which used the Blackberry network and NOC (and needed a Blackberry Enterprise data plan to work). And yes, they are slower than other Exchange Activesync devices (WP, Android and iOS) because of the BES 10 infrastructure. BB10 devices are managed by both BES10 and Exchange, hence the slower connection."

    I find this very hard to believe...
    09-20-13 07:20 PM
  7. chasdrury's Avatar
    It's rubbish. Even with BES10 emails often arrive on my z10 before they appear in Outlook in cached mode.

    Isn't the NOC still used with BES 10? You just don't need the enterprise plan...

    Posted via CB10
    09-21-13 03:54 AM
  8. kets4ever's Avatar
    Facing same problem.. emails delays near to 5-7 mins.. BlackBerry should solve this issue

    Posted via CB10
    09-21-13 04:06 AM
  9. mooda's Avatar
    The NOC is used to route the traffic between the devices and your server. It used to be that the bes would be poling your inbox and as soon you get a message it would send it to the device using the NOC. Now the NOC just provides the connection acitvsync is the driving force behind emails. And versioning matters. The newer versions are better 03 which is what we use has its issues.

    Posted via CB10
    09-21-13 07:44 AM
  10. deebo550's Avatar
    No problems here. Bes10 on vmware with 10+ bb10 devices, 60 ios devices and 1 android tablet.

    Sometimes I'll get emails on my z10 before outlook. No real significant difference between my Android tab, ipad, iPhone and z10.

    So many variables go into this so you can't just outright blame blackberry. What about exchange, network resources, WiFi connection, cell connection, possible network proxy etc.

    I do however get complaints that contacts don't always sync properly on iOS devices.
    09-21-13 11:39 AM
  11. playsomekiss's Avatar
    What happens if they remove a BES 10 Active Sync device from BES10 and then set up the same device with Active Sync, not thru the BES and test delivery time?
    09-23-13 02:19 PM
  12. mkozak's Avatar
    We have BES5 and BES10 and when testing z10's I had both a z10 and a torch. Sometimes the torch would get an email first other times the z10. The difference was never more than few seconds between the two.
    09-23-13 02:54 PM
  13. deebo550's Avatar
    It'll still try to activate through bes because it knows it's a work account
    09-23-13 09:18 PM
  14. NoAhB0Dy's Avatar
    What a load of crap. Simple case of someone who didn't configure things correctly. I set up bes10 with traveler (yes laugh if you must, my Co uses notes) however I have never experienced any sort of delivery delays. If you're getting delays then something is not set up properly.

    Period.

    End of story.

    Posted via CB10 on my Zed10.
    blusls likes this.
    09-23-13 09:39 PM
  15. jpvj's Avatar
    Thanks for your responses everyone.

    Our IT department further clarified...

    --Are you saying that emails may come in slower than you are used to compared to BB7 devices and NOT compared to iphones/android/windows phones? Do other smartphones use Exchange Activesync as well?

    "I’m saying both. They definitely come in slower than the BB7/BES 5 legacy infrastructure, which used the Blackberry network and NOC (and needed a Blackberry Enterprise data plan to work). And yes, they are slower than other Exchange Activesync devices (WP, Android and iOS) because of the BES 10 infrastructure. BB10 devices are managed by both BES10 and Exchange, hence the slower connection."

    I find this very hard to believe...
    Hi,

    FYI: BES 10 provides first of all MDM for BES10 devices. When enrolling a BB10 devices with a BES10 server, the workspace is created and all communication *within* the workspace runs through the "NOC" (which is a wrong work as it is called the "Relay Service" and is part of the BlackBerry Infrastructure (BBI)).

    Depending on the setup, the admin can either provision an ActiveSync profile in the workspace. If done so, you will see the small briefcase icon next to the account and in this case traffic is routed through the BlackBerry Relay service. The Relay service adds some latency to the connection, but should not cause delays in the order of minutes, unless some traffic is not transmitted correctly.
    If not, you will have to configure the email yourself and it will run in the Personal space with no control from the admins and the device will synchronize directly with the Exchange just like the Android/iOS/WP devices.

    First of all: ActiveSync IS slower than the legacy BB devices. First of all there was a huge compression and only the initial 2K of compressed data was pushed to the device. ActiveSync works by receiving a "poke" and then performing a pull cycle.

    If no changes are happening on the users mailbox a "heartbeat" is send every 15 mins per default. This tells the ActiveSync client that the connection is still active and alive. If the keepalive is not received, the ActiveSync client performs a pull cycle on its own.

    A delay could be caused by several factors:

    1) If the connection between the BB10 handheld and the Exchange (through the BES10 or direct) is broken, This will cause the BB10 to wait for "timeout" while waiting for the heartbeat.
    2) A bug in the ActiveSync implementation on the BB10 devices.

    I have heard of one case where the synchronization stopped. It was a former collegue having this issue internally but I never heard if he found the root cause.

    Troubleshooting ActiveSync is not as easy as with BES5, as you had the log file from the Messaging Agent on the BES5. Now you are stuck with the ActiveSync debugging. As far as I am aware the first place to look is the IIS logfiles on the Exchange Server. If nothing happens, it could indicate a BlackBerry implementation problem.

    Keep us updated!
    09-24-13 03:48 AM
  16. jpvj's Avatar
    PS: You could try to setup a BB10 device unmanaged just to compare ActiveSync on this device vs. another vendors device.
    09-24-13 03:49 AM
  17. deebo550's Avatar
    i have an iphone 5s and my z10 sitting right next to me. im getting buzzing for emails at the exact same time. no delays here (+/-

    bes10 on vmware running windows 2008 r2. both iphone 5c and z10 actiaved on bes10. Also exchange 2007 on server 2008
    09-24-13 09:03 AM
  18. NoAhB0Dy's Avatar
    i have an iphone 5s and my z10 sitting right next to me. im getting buzzing for emails at the exact same time. no delays here (+/-

    bes10 on vmware running windows 2008 r2. both iphone 5c and z10 actiaved on bes10. Also exchange 2007 on server 2008
    As expected

    Posted via CB10 on my Zed10.
    09-24-13 10:51 PM
  19. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    Your IT department has zero clue what they are talking about. Also there is significantly more security running BES10 than direct ActiveSync. Also, the BB10 devices support activesync directly. Their entire argument is flawed. PM me if you like, and i can discuss more with you OP.
    09-25-13 07:12 AM
  20. lurk_n_post_2000's Avatar
    I don't see how BES10 email could be any slower that IOS or Android email; they all use Active sync under the covers, don't they?

    Maybe they are saying that it might be a bit slower than what users were experiencing with BES7?
    09-25-13 09:10 AM
  21. higherdestiny's Avatar
    BES no longer pushes the message. BES10 does not use the Blackberry NOC or the Blackberry network. It uses Exchange ActiveSync. BES 10 only provides device management, not mail delivery.
    This is completely false. Your IT department needs educating

    BES *does* push the message. Bes *Does* use the NOC. Bes *does* provide both device management and email delivery.

    The change with BES 10 is all behind the firewall.

    Without going into too much detail, the data path looks a bit like this:

    Legacy BB <> Carrier <> NOC <> [FIREWALL] <> BES <(MAPI)> Mail Server.
    BB10 Device <> Carrier <> NOC <> [FIREWALL] <> BES <(ActiveSync)> Mail Server.

    To clarify, Data IS still compressed, encrypted and sent through the NOC. The compression is not as effective as it used to be in Legacy days, as ActiveSync already employs it;s own compression, making further compression less effective. But it still compresses which does provide some speed benefit compared to competitors.

    The activesync connection occurs behind the firewall, and yes, it's not quite as fast as MAPI was. BUT when I say 'not as fast' I mean a matter of seconds. My BES-connected BlackBerry receives mail every single time in less than 10 seconds from the time I click send on my desktop client.

    If there's a significant delay, something isn't set up correctly. As pointed out, if the server or ActiveSync itself have been misconfigured, the device may have to wait for a manual polling cycle to pull down mail. A properly configured BES will provide instant push email to devices, through the NOC.

    I hope this helps.
    09-26-13 12:39 AM
  22. higherdestiny's Avatar
    http://docs.blackberry.com/en/admin/...lows_QR_en.pdf

    Refer page 19, and tell your IT department to please get a clue

    Who installed the BES? If there's 5-10 minute delays on email delivery, they've done it WRONG.
    NoAhB0Dy likes this.
    09-26-13 12:43 AM
  23. higherdestiny's Avatar
    FYI - just tested my BES connected Z10 compared to an Activesync connected iPhone 5.

    A series of test messages, BlackBerry received the emails either at the same time, or a few seconds after the iPhone. And I mean no more than 5 or 6 seconds difference at the most - with some emails arriving simultaneously.

    I would say the occasional second or two delay is the price of end-to-end encryption through the NOC.

    A more significant delay would indicate one of the following:

    1) Your IT department hasn't configured BES correctly.
    2) Your BES server is underspecced (most often low RAM).
    3) Your IT department is on drugs / on Apple's payroll.

    Possibly a combination of the above.

    09-26-13 01:05 AM
  24. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    what a great IT department you got there
    09-26-13 01:48 AM
  25. nico2004's Avatar
    My IT department (large company) posted this on their website as a disclaimer for all BB10 devices...

    -> Mail delivery to and from BlackBerry 10 devices can take a few minutes. It may be longer than you are accustomed to with your current device.

    When I asked them they responded with the following:

    "BES no longer pushes the message. BES10 does not use the Blackberry NOC or the Blackberry network. It uses Exchange ActiveSync. BES 10 only provides device management, not mail delivery.

    And no, the mail delays will not be fixed anytime soon either. Blackberry is aware of it, but because it no longer works through the NOC or the Blackberry network, itís a current limitation."


    I don't think this is true... but wanted to see what others had to say on the matter because I am not very familiar with the details of the inner workings of the enterprise software...

    Would greatly appreciate your input because I am very unhappy with the length of time it took them to allow BB10 devices and this disclaimer that discourages people from buying them...
    I work for Canada Post corporate and we don't have that problem


    BlackBerry Z10, powerful tool indeed.
    09-26-13 01:51 AM
38 12

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