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12-17-13 05:16 AM
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  1. diehardbbuser's Avatar
    After having gone from a Pearl to a few Bolds over the past 7 years.. this was the 1st upgrade I ever felt a bit let down by. Looked at the Z30 and frankly.. was too big and the keyboard was just tooo nice to passover for a larger screen. Z30 seemed like a toy.. tooo Samsung like.

    Mainly because of BB10 and 2 major issues with the handset.

    1. How in the world could they have dropped the call button??? And even worse is not giving us the option of reassigning a key to the call function. Why cant I reassign the voice button on the side by the volume controls to the former green call button????

    When I'm in bbm, msg'ing back n forth. I used to be able to hit the call button and call the person. Now it takes so many swipes and clicks to get a call made.

    Does anyone know how to reassign a key to the green call button? There's 2 spots on the bottom row of the keyboard (1 on each side) that could easily been added have been function 1 and function 2 buttons that a user assigns).

    2. I really really really miss the touchpad for selecting. Its beyond annoying to copy text with the touch screen.

    As for the rest of my experience:

    1. AWESOME keyboard. Way better then any previous generation.
    2. Nice screen. No complaints.

    3. OS10: Screen blackout: How in the world do you change that timing of when it goes into blackout. Ive tried everything and after just a few seconds it blackouts and then I have to keep putting in my password. Even when I'm on a call etc. I have changed it to 90s, 2, 3mins etc. and nothing helps.

    4. OS10: Icon size. Why sooooo large. I wish we had the option for small, medium, large. I'd perfer a medium option that results in an extra row of icons.

    5. OS10: HUB vs. Email Folders: I miss the seperate email accounts as folders but I'm learning to "live" with the hub vertical layout of accounts.

    6. OS10: Emails: How do I delete an email off the handset but not off the originating email server?? For some of my email accounts, I want to leave the msg on the email server. You used to have the option of keeping it on the server. Why the loss of functionality.

    7. OS10: BBM; how can I call someone that I'm in a msg'ing window with directly out of BBM if they are in my contacts list. Now I have to minimize window etc. Is there a shortcut to call that person directly?? (sigh no call button on the keypad)

    8. OS10: Contacts: Considering they now accept this a business driven consumer: Why cant we create distribution lists of our contacts?? We can create groups in bbm but we can't create a group of email contacts???? Seriously?

    9. Camera: Why cant we select picture size ranges? We used to be able to like full large, medium small!!!! Why can t we get full resolution! Only 1:1 4:3 and 16:9... seriously??? Why the loss of functionality we had. Plus, why in the world make default 1:1 .. i took a few pictures before noticing the horrible file size. Forget about printing them now.. crap.

    10. APPS: I barely use them.. but seriously, they even lost support of Apps that were previously developed natively for OS7!! I hadn't expected that. I only use like 10 and most are now not available: OperaMini, Shazam, BB Traffic, Point.. just discovered flipboard and its available for OS7 but not 10 (have to admit, didn't think this would annoy me but it sooooooo does).

    I do find everything seems to take an extra step or 2 to get the same thing vs. OS7 and the Bold phone design. I use my phone as a phone not as tablet I want something that works as a phone 1st, then email then tablet like functions (touch, swipe etc).

    Honestly.. i hardly see BB10 OS as any real improvement of OS7.. sure its a bit more slick and and bit more gimmicky but all in all, no reason for all the delays and lost of reputation. Confused about what all the hype was about from RIM about BB10 being revolution. Hardly even evolutionary..

    ONE MAJOR GRIPE for me is that non Enterprise consumers cant do BALANCE. Thats utter BS. Why... I really want a work and personal profile!!!
    11-22-13 01:01 PM
  2. theblob's Avatar
    A couple of these concerns will be remedied in 10.2.1 release (deleting emails, contact groups), but as for the other concerns, here's my input:
    1. Yes we understand there's no trackpad or buttons, but the whole purpose of BB10 is to be a "buttonless" and gesture based system,
    2. What do you mean by screen "blackout"? The amount of time you set it as SHOULD be the amount of time it turns off in. Additionally, during the call, there is a proximity sensor so you don't accidentally use the touch screen when the screen is by your face.
    3. Icon size, well you're s.o.l there.
    4. If you call people frequently enough, OS 10.2.1 adds the functionality of speed dial.
    5. I don't really understand your camera concern...the ratio determines the "size" of the picture.
    6. Instead of Shazam, use SoundHound. Flipboard IS available.Why do you need OperaMini with the BB10 Browser? And many of the app problems will be inconsequential with the 10.2.1 release.
    7. Balance IS targeted at enterprise customers on BES. The reason they don't give that option to consumers is beyond me, but why would you want that? If you really wanted to use an app as a consumer, you'd just swipe up and go back to Personal. BES allows the administrator to lock it. And if you're worried about Hub accounts showing, just enable or disable accounts shown in the Hub. Easy as that.
    11-22-13 01:19 PM
  3. joewoo's Avatar
    Sounds like you need to try installing a leaked OS... lots of nice features there
    11-22-13 01:34 PM
  4. diehardbbuser's Avatar
    Thanks for the response.

    1. BB10 being buttonless is silly when the have the Q10.. which by default renders that position pointless... I get gesturing but if you have a phone with buttons why not include a call button which makes thing soooo much easier and efficient as a user experience. Also, why not have assignable keys like we had in OS7 and the Bold even if they were not smart enough to include 2 user defined function keys in the last row of the keyboard. Makes no sense.

    2. Blackout, when it goes into sleep mode. I have tried Settings - Display - Screenlock Out and adjusted all the setting but my handset still goes into sleep mode in a few seconds and I have to keep putting my password. Not a deal breaker, just annoying that I can not set the amount of time for the screen to blackout.

    4. Speed dial has a lmited amount of entries and my speed dial list is actually non BBM people ie home, mom etc. I dont get why its so hard to make it efficient to call someone that is a bbm contact. ie call button previously. Guess just SOL again and everytime Im in bbm and want to call the person I will just keep getting annoyed at the BB team about how comborsome it is to call them Not a good user experience if you ask me when they had it perfect previously so its not as if they didnt have a better solution.

    5. Camera: There is a difference between ratio and file size. Not the same thing. One involves compression. I want a 4:3 image but the option of High Resolution, Medium Resolution and Low: Just like every digital camera out there and just like we had in OS7 Bolds!!! When I want to save memory, I want to a 4:3 low file size image that I know I am not going to print. Otherwise, I want a 4:3 image full resolution full file size. Why in the world with a 8gb phone with expandedable memory would they set the default as 1:1 .. 50kb files. Is this 2004...

    6. I perfer OperaMini to the Native browser. Native one is better then in OS7 but for me.. still not as good as what OperaMini offered. Soundhound doesnt work nearly as well as Shazam. I tried downloading Flipboard and it said was not compatible with my Q10 device.

    7. Balance: Why.. I would like to keep my contacts, apps bbm contacts etc between work and personal seperate. When you have 100s to 1000+ contacts etc .. keeping em seperate increases productivity. I run my own businesses. Anything to increase productivity and work and home life seperate is well received. Balance would have done a lot for that. For none BES consumers, why dont they offer a simple software in Link to allow us to do so.

    How will 10.2.1 help in regards to Apps, Contact App etc.. Guess I should look into it and see what you are referring too. I did the most recent official release and didnt see that it helped much with my user experience of BB10. BB10 has been out for so long, I dont get why BB is taking soooo long to address what is really minor things to add.

    What I find most disappointing and annoying with the BB team is that a lot of good useful productive things in OS7 were lost in BB10. So rather then keeping what worked and improved upon it, they clean slated it and lost a lot of good things and gave soooooooo little back in return for BB10.

    I expected the BB experience to only be improved upon with the Q10 over the Bold and not 8 steps back in most ways and 3 steps forward in some. Net, major step back from the OS7 Bold Experience.
    Last edited by diehardbbuser; 11-22-13 at 01:48 PM.
    11-22-13 01:36 PM
  5. apalm8's Avatar
    You've criticized most things that have been greatly improved in the os10 experience. Track pad is now obsolete etc. Furthermore doesn't seem like you understand the difference between file size and picture aspect ratio.

    Posted via CB10
    aljawaid and felixweber like this.
    11-22-13 02:00 PM
  6. theblob's Avatar
    Okay I think I know your blackout issue. If you go to Settings > Security and Privacy > Device Password, it will give you an option "Lock Device After". If this is set to a very small time, it will turn off the screen regardless of the screen timeout settings.
    Additionally, I find that Soundhound works MUCH better than Shazam, identifying songs quicker and getting some songs Shazam was not able to.
    And to finally finish off the last input I have, I understand the frustration with the lack of similar features to OS7 (came from a Bold 9900), but they were trying to push out BB10 as quickly as possible. And being 9 months into development running the 10.2.1.1055 leak, I have to say I'm impressed with how much it has evolved. Still more features I would like to see, but based on the BlackBerry response so far, I'm sure they'll come around.
    brian4591 likes this.
    11-22-13 02:04 PM
  7. dayno25's Avatar
    Just go back to one of your Bold's, you'd be better off than trying to fix all your 'issues'. Frankly I feel like saying 'get with the times!' If what you mentioned truly does annoy you that much (and let's not forget almost everything you mentioned are more or less core elements of the BlackBerry 10 experience) then you'd be best staying with a Bold. I have a 9700 for work and damn that thing is a pleasure to use. But my Q10 keeps me in 2013 and on 10.2.1.1055 it truly is the best mobile experience I've ever had.

    Posted via CB10
    beamolite likes this.
    11-22-13 02:10 PM
  8. 93Aero's Avatar
    There are to many reviews form bloggers and CB members and elsewhere to come to the Q10 not knowing what to expect.


    Posted via CB10
    11-22-13 02:14 PM
  9. diehardbbuser's Avatar
    You've criticized most things that have been greatly improved in the os10 experience. Track pad is now obsolete etc. Furthermore doesn't seem like you understand the difference between file size and picture aspect ratio.

    Posted via CB10
    Picture ratio is a CROP of that native sensor resolution. Seem as though you dont understand it.

    That has nothing to do with file compression of Large, Medium, Small like with in OS7 and what you find in every digital camera. A square crop of 1:1 is only useful for the BB10 Q10 screen. Its a cropped image from the native camera resolution.

    The 8mp rear camera that is used in the Q10 is natively: 3264 x 2448 pixels which is a 4x3 aspect ratio.

    The 1:1 aspect ratio simple a crop of the 4:3 image and the rest of that image data is deleted. Hence the ridiculously small file size of those images. Good luck ever printing a 4x6, 8x10 image at approximately 240-300dpi from that file even though you have an 8mp camera!

    The 16:9 aspect is software upsampled (ie pulling of pixel data) rendered image from 4:3 aspect ie push pull cut delete etc. There isnt data that extends that far out. Its not a 16:9 sensor, its not a 1:1 sensor. Its a 4:3 sensor.

    What we had in OS7 Bolds is a native image 4:3 (checked specs, yup was 4:3 also) but software would compress the file size (loss of detail) from Full Res ie Large, to medium to small file size as per user selection. Thats what we should have now. These crap settings of 1:1 crop and expanded 16:9 in still images is useless. Fine if they want the video recording done at a false upsampled 16:9 video for that HD look vs 4:3 that would result in black bars on the screen but for still images, we should have the option of determining file size compression settings like we always had.

    In BB10, we lost the ability to control out FILE SIZE of native resolution 4:3 images. Once again, completely unncessary and confusing why they would ever do such a thing.
    Last edited by diehardbbuser; 11-22-13 at 03:00 PM.
    LuisCast likes this.
    11-22-13 02:20 PM
  10. diehardbbuser's Avatar
    Just go back to one of your Bold's, you'd be better off than trying to fix all your 'issues'. Frankly I feel like saying 'get with the times!' If what you mentioned truly does annoy you that much (and let's not forget almost everything you mentioned are more or less core elements of the BlackBerry 10 experience) then you'd be best staying with a Bold. I have a 9700 for work and damn that thing is a pleasure to use. But my Q10 keeps me in 2013 and on 10.2.1.1055 it truly is the best mobile experience I've ever had.

    Posted via CB10
    Can not. Screen died. Top of phone was coming apart. Lack of internal memorry was causing issues. They dont sell new 9900's any longer in Canada and I want need real 4g not 3.3-3.5g that the 9900 had. I dont want to buy a used handset only to have issue down the road.
    11-22-13 02:29 PM
  11. joewoo's Avatar
    When I take pics, they are at least 1mb... some are 2 and 3... this is in the 1:1 ratio setting... are you sure yours are saving at 50k?
    11-22-13 02:34 PM
  12. diehardbbuser's Avatar
    Okay I think I know your blackout issue. If you go to Settings > Security and Privacy > Device Password, it will give you an option "Lock Device After". If this is set to a very small time, it will turn off the screen regardless of the screen timeout settings.
    Additionally, I find that Soundhound works MUCH better than Shazam, identifying songs quicker and getting some songs Shazam was not able to.
    And to finally finish off the last input I have, I understand the frustration with the lack of similar features to OS7 (came from a Bold 9900), but they were trying to push out BB10 as quickly as possible. And being 9 months into development running the 10.2.1.1055 leak, I have to say I'm impressed with how much it has evolved. Still more features I would like to see, but based on the BlackBerry response so far, I'm sure they'll come around.
    Thanks for the feedback.

    I'll try out Soundhound again. Uninstalled it.

    Lockout issue: When I set it to 1min, i get the warning: Your device will lock before screen locks.. I cant figure out why. When I set it to 5mins, the warning is removed but the handset still blacks out in a few seconds and need to up swipe and put in my password.

    Do you find the leaks stable??? I hate installing beta software.
    11-22-13 02:34 PM
  13. joewoo's Avatar
    The leaks are pretty stable... I'm sure you could find quirks... but there are quirks in the carrier released versions too....

    Also to mention, sometimes BlackBerry has done work on the OS but the carriers will be slow to push them out... so not always bb's fault....
    11-22-13 02:36 PM
  14. diehardbbuser's Avatar
    There are to many reviews form bloggers and CB members and elsewhere to come to the Q10 not knowing what to expect.


    Posted via CB10
    Hopefully, my thread will help those OS7 users to be aware of some key User Experience elements that have been lost in BB10.

    Even as danyo25 noted about, the 9700 was perfect just needed to be kept current. BB10 lost soooo much of what was perfect for so little gains.

    Time for me to look a the leaked links (which I never do as I didnt have the Q10 so it didnt matter to me) and even though I do not like using beta versions might worth it apparently.
    11-22-13 02:39 PM
  15. diehardbbuser's Avatar
    When I take pics, they are at least 1mb... some are 2 and 3... this is in the 1:1 ratio setting... are you sure yours are saving at 50k?
    Yes, it depends on the image and how much data its capturing. Either way, 1:1 is useless option that comes mainly from the histamatic crowd of hipsters living off the old lomo cameras.
    11-22-13 02:40 PM
  16. diehardbbuser's Avatar
    The leaks are pretty stable... I'm sure you could find quirks... but there are quirks in the carrier released versions too....

    Also to mention, sometimes BlackBerry has done work on the OS but the carriers will be slow to push them out... so not always bb's fault....
    Joewoo, when I set the lockout to 5mins - warning goes away but screen locks out and I need to swipe up and enter my password after a few seconds. What in the world is going on with the password setting that overwrites that lockout setting?
    11-22-13 02:43 PM
  17. joewoo's Avatar
    Not sure bout that lockout problem.. that was actually someone else that helped you with that
    11-22-13 02:47 PM
  18. diehardbbuser's Avatar

    You've criticized most things that have been greatly improved in the os10 experience. Track pad is now obsolete etc. Furthermore doesn't seem like you understand the difference between file size and picture aspect ratio.

    Posted via CB10
    What exactly have I critisized that was GREATLY IMPROVED in the os10 experience??? Demonstrate to me how exactly any of the points I have raised is better in a BB10 device.. How about.. even just 2 examples of my critisms are better now then before.
    11-22-13 02:54 PM
  19. theblob's Avatar
    Joewoo, when I set the lockout to 5mins - warning goes away but screen locks out and I need to swipe up and enter my password after a few seconds. What in the world is going on with the password setting that overwrites that lockout setting?
    I suggest you try a hard reset if the security lockout and screen timeout are at 5 minutes, but it turns off and locks out at a few seconds. To do this, hold the UP and DOWN volume keys until the blue squircle OS loading screen appears.
    And as joewoo said, the leak is pretty stable and a lot of people are using it (thus more help). Just a quick note if you do go the route of the leak, security wipe the device after installing it and DO NOT restore from a link backup. These steps have the highest success rate in creating less issues.
    11-22-13 02:56 PM
  20. diehardbbuser's Avatar
    I suggest you try a hard reset if the security lockout and screen timeout are at 5 minutes, but it turns off and locks out at a few seconds. To do this, hold the UP and DOWN volume keys until the blue squircle OS loading screen appears.
    And as joewoo said, the leak is pretty stable and a lot of people are using it (thus more help). Just a quick note if you do go the route of the leak, security wipe the device after installing it and DO NOT restore from a link backup. These steps have the highest success rate in creating less issues.
    How do you suggest getting your contacts, emails and bbm full populated again if you cant use link backup?
    11-22-13 03:08 PM
  21. joewoo's Avatar
    BBM should autopopulate... though I haven't tested hundreds of contacts... I only have a few... me personally, my emails come back cuz it's through gmail... and my contacts are stored there as well....

    I also never do a restore from a backup... but I don't do the wipe after a clean install either... my OS seems fine
    11-22-13 03:11 PM
  22. mad_mdx's Avatar
    Bb10 and 7 are completely different.
    7 is obsolete in modern times. I understand your frustrated but that's because you went in thinking this was an "upgrade" from bb7.
    Well it's not. It's a new phone, new OS, and it has nothing in common with the old one except with the idea to "keep moving".

    Now with that in mind, you need to start getting used to your new phone.

    First, calling from Bbm.
    This is indeed annoying but they haven't added a direct calling button in Bbm apart from the "Bbm voice" feature. So you have to first of all have the Bbm contact linked to the contacts phone number in your contacts app(have them both under one contact).
    Now if you have that done, you can click on the persons name bar on top of the Bbm convo, and then it will open their Bbm profile. From there in the middle at the bottom there is a button to open the contact sheet. And from there you just click call.
    I am hoping they modify this in a future bbm release, but it's fine for now.

    Second, about the apps.
    Anytime I hear anyone talk about apps being better on 7, I flip out. You must have lost your mind. 7 could barely install apps, let alone run them. The browser in bb10 is absolutely amazing. It's super fast and can load almost any website you can find, desktop or mobile. The old browsers were a joke, including the opera browser yes.
    Learn to use the phone and get used to it, you'll see you can do things that you never could before.

    Your screen timeout problem is something you should call your carrier's troubleshooting line because it doesn't make sense OR your phone is actually broken. Never seen that issue before so have to assume you're not doing something right. Call troubleshooting and get it resolved.

    There are a lot of small features of 7 that are not part of 10 for now, but this is a phone for the masses, it's not longer a phone for just sending emails.

    I have my 9810 torch still, sometimes I look at it and I laugh at how much of a piece of crap that phone's OS was, and am amazed bb10 could be made by the same people. This phone is less of a phone and more of a smartphone, unlike the old ones just get used to it but eventually the old features will be brought back
    tempered likes this.
    11-22-13 03:22 PM
  23. diehardbbuser's Avatar
    Bb10 and 7 are completely different.
    7 is obsolete in modern times. I understand your frustrated but that's because you went in thinking this was an "upgrade" from bb7.
    Well it's not. It's a new phone, new OS, and it has nothing in common with the old one except with the idea to "keep moving".

    Now with that in mind, you need to start getting used to your new phone.

    First, calling from Bbm.
    This is indeed annoying but they haven't added a direct calling button in Bbm apart from the "Bbm voice" feature. So you have to first of all have the Bbm contact linked to the contacts phone number in your contacts app(have them both under one contact).
    Now if you have that done, you can click on the persons name bar on top of the Bbm convo, and then it will open their Bbm profile. From there in the middle at the bottom there is a button to open the contact sheet. And from there you just click call.
    I am hoping they modify this in a future bbm release, but it's fine for now.

    Second, about the apps.
    Anytime I hear anyone talk about apps being better on 7, I flip out. You must have lost your mind. 7 could barely install apps, let alone run them. The browser in bb10 is absolutely amazing. It's super fast and can load almost any website you can find, desktop or mobile. The old browsers were a joke, including the opera browser yes.
    Learn to use the phone and get used to it, you'll see you can do things that you never could before.

    Your screen timeout problem is something you should call your carrier's troubleshooting line because it doesn't make sense OR your phone is actually broken. Never seen that issue before so have to assume you're not doing something right. Call troubleshooting and get it resolved.

    There are a lot of small features of 7 that are not part of 10 for now, but this is a phone for the masses, it's not longer a phone for just sending emails.

    I have my 9810 torch still, sometimes I look at it and I laugh at how much of a piece of crap that phone's OS was, and am amazed bb10 could be made by the same people. This phone is less of a phone and more of a smartphone, unlike the old ones just get used to it but eventually the old features will be brought back
    Ok since it does seem odd then about the lockout and not what is typically seen, i'll have to look into further with tech support. Thanks for the tip.

    As for BB10.. I keep hearing that BB10 is sooo much better on this forum but for the life me .. I can not see any real difference other then being able to run latest spec hardware. Yes it runs smoother.. but is should, the handset specs are way better so memory issue of the past have been resolved. We all appreciate that the Q10 and Z30 are better handsets then any of the OS7 hardware wise. What exactly do you find works better in the OS QNX version.. I do not see anything as of yet.

    Better camera.. yeah but still not class leading or even close to the top of the class.
    Yes we can load more websites... that shouldnt be earth shattering..

    As for smartphone features... I do not see anything added that makes my Q10 smarter then the 9900...
    LuisCast likes this.
    11-22-13 03:36 PM
  24. joewoo's Avatar
    IMO it's all about the hub implementation... being able to respond through there is nice...
    11-22-13 03:49 PM
  25. m1kr0's Avatar
    OP, transition can be hard. After a decade on legacy BB, I moved to full touch Z10. The learning curve was immense, but for me there is no going back now. Note: I could have chosen the Q, but the rest of the world have moved on already to full touch. So I decided to move along as well.
    Fatboy40 likes this.
    11-22-13 03:56 PM
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