Switched from iPhone 4S to Q10. One week in. Mostly Happy. Few issues, maybe you can help?
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Yours are are valid points in your opinion. That's why it's called an argument. But, I'm curious how you know about this "majority". Did you take a poll?
Who is this "everyone else" that you speak of? Again, is there some scientific poll results you'd like to share?
How do you know this? Do you work for BlackBerry? Is this their published position on the matter? And, if so, how do they rectify this with their previous phones that allowed this, or with other alerts, like phone or skype, that light up the screen?
Ah, so you agree with me that options are good, and this would be just another option. See, we're not so different after all.
Who said anything about a "brief message"?tack likes this.03-10-14 03:03 PMLike 1 -
Yes, I can too because I have the same phone. Not sure what your point was. I never made any mention of only seeing one of the last few messages as opposed to several of them. Yes, I can view each with two taps (after I sometimes have to tap the star icon)....which comes after I wake the screen.
Make the suggestion for a developer to make this app. I'm guessing they need to monitor incoming messages, and then force screen on and toast the message. Can probably be done.
You're talking about having a message come up on the screen for a few seconds when the screen is locked. if the message didn't go away on its own, then the screen is using EVEN MORE battery, or it just took screen focus away from the actual app I was working with. Both cases are not wanted by me.03-10-14 04:08 PMLike 0 - Because you are not accepting that the default and desired behaviour benefits the majority. Majority desired behaviour should be default action in nearly all cases in nearly all products.
No, this is based on assumed usage case and common sense. When screen is off, eyes are not looking at the screen and most likely put away.
Where is the phone in the case where the screen is off? Could be holster, could be table, could be your hand. Bottom line, its not 10" in front of your eyes, and you need to "retrieve" it so that its within viewing angle/distance. For example, my phone is in my pocket when its not in use. Same for a lot of others (no scientific poll!). So if my phone vibrates or I get a message, I need to retrieve it from my pocket before I can view it. If the screen came on while in my pocket, its a complete waste of power used by the display. This is why the magnetic holster is so important to profiles and why screen activates upon removing from holster. If you think the battery use by that is negligible, you are wrong.
Common sense, and typical usage scenario that the phone isn't in front of your eyes like google glass.
My point is that the current method to view recent messages works nicely for myself and many others based on crackberry feedback over the last year. I prefer this over turning my display on and wasting battery when not going to be seen.
As to why previous phones did this, I couldn't tell you. I can easily state that phones of yesteryear without bigger screens, faster processors and LTE enabled radios did not use near as much battery. So when making a phone that uses a lot more battery, CHANGES NEED TO OCCUR. You can't always have your cake and eat it, too. Physics just doesn't co-operate like that.
It's almost always good to have options. Problem is, they need to support it. They need to develop it, QA it, add enterprise/security control through API, etc. So its not always easy to make a setting configurable. Nor do they want people to enable that, ignore the battery usage impact, and then get slammed for having a feature that uses a lot of battery?
Make the suggestion for a developer to make this app. I'm guessing they need to monitor incoming messages, and then force screen on and toast the message. Can probably be done.
You're talking about having a message come up on the screen for a few seconds when the screen is locked. if the message didn't go away on its own, then the screen is using EVEN MORE battery, or it just took screen focus away from the actual app I was working with. Both cases are not wanted by me.
Sent from my HTC One dual sim using CB Forums mobile app03-10-14 04:11 PMLike 0 -
And, who is the "majority" you keep referencing? Or is it because YOU like it, then everyone else does to?
"most likely"? Wow, some powerful argument you got there. What are you basing this on? And why do you think it's put away? Multiple people in this thread have already discussed others with phones on tables that were not "put away". If your phone is on the table, or desk, or car cradle, or even just in your hand....and an alert happens.....YOU HAVE A REASON TO LOOK AT IT. Make sense yet? And....how do you apply your logic to PHONE CALLS?
For example, my phone is in my pocket when its not in use. Same for a lot of others (no scientific poll!). So if my phone vibrates or I get a message, I need to retrieve it from my pocket before I can view it. If the screen came on while in my pocket, its a complete waste of power used by the display. This is why the magnetic holster is so important to profiles and why screen activates upon removing from holster. If you think the battery use by that is negligible, you are wrong.
And, beyond the obvious situation of when your phone is out of sight....how about when your phone IS IN SIGHT? THEN WHAT?
AND, what are you basing this significant battery loss claim on? Any facts, or just....oh....wait......I know......you're "assuming" again.
Wha....what? You mean it wasn't "common sense"....or....."the default and desired behavior that benefited the majority"???? Or, is that only if it's the way YOU prefer it?
I can easily state that phones of yesteryear without bigger screens, faster processors and LTE enabled radios did not use near as much battery. So when making a phone that uses a lot more battery, CHANGES NEED TO OCCUR. You can't always have your cake and eat it, too. .
You see, ANY phone can be a power hog REGARDLESS of how many times your backlight comes on. It's up to you to tweak those settings, which is why all phones....including BB10....let you chose how to adjust between convenience and energy savings. The backlight turning on would be just another one of those adjustments.
It's almost always good to have options. Problem is, they need to support it. They need to develop it, QA it, add enterprise/security control through API, etc. So its not always easy to make a setting configurable. Nor do they want people to enable that, ignore the battery usage impact, and then get slammed for having a feature that uses a lot of battery?
You really think that the occasional backlight pop (especially on a Amoled) is in any way comparable to the impact of 4G, or GPS, or streaming video, etc? ? THOSE are the power hogs that cause people to complain, and they can be adjusted. And, again, you're theory holds no water anyway because the backlight comes on for every call. If you get a lot of calls a day there's no difference.
Uh...what? The phone was NOT LIT. It was "in your pocket"......remember? Sooooooo.....how were you working on it?SmileDahling and tack like this.03-10-14 05:03 PMLike 2 - Just to add a little something to this I might have been able to get behind the whole battery saving idea if, when I do go to turn the screen on the actual message is there straight away. But it's not. You have to turn on the screen and then touch the specific icon you want to read notifications for. And I've noticed, on the Q10 at least, it seems to require a very specific touch and then there's a sort of fading or some sort of animation which means the message doesn't load exactly instantly. That just seems like poor design to me. Putting in steps which don't need to be there. iPhone and Android have both shown how it can be done quickly and cleanly.
Of course this is all nitpicky. But again, if this is a phone designed for businessmen and people who need to get things done why isn't there an option to make one of the key features of a modern smartphone as efficient as possible to use.03-10-14 05:22 PMLike 0 - Yep. You've just summarized the sentiment of many of those BB users that are simply holding on to their OS7 device (or returning after trying BB10). You shouldn't have to trade off losing power windows on the new model just to get a built in Bluetooth radio in your new car. But that's the proposition that BlackBerry is proposing to it's users when asking them to switch from OS7 to BB10. You get the cool new stuff....but we left out the power windows. Hope you like rolling them up by hand.03-10-14 05:51 PMLike 0
- That's actually not entirely accurate. There are only two options to prevent the iPhone screen from lighting up. Either you disable the lock-screen notification per app, in which case you will not see anything on the lock screen either, or you turn on Do Not Disturb mode. In the latter case, you will receive a lock-screen notification, but without a vibration or sound. It is not possible to control the screen separately without turning anything else off (notification or vibration/sound).03-10-14 08:03 PMLike 0
- redlightblinking,
You need to chill out. Have a discussion and keep your blood pressure down. You are getting wayyy too worked up over this, and you are not open to discussing ideas. You discussed why you think the message should light the screen on all messages, and I made the case that its not done for battery savings. Ask BlackBerry, if you really want to know. Make a feature request with BlackBerry, I don't write the software.
Re: Phone calls. Phone calls are different than messages in that they are implied urgent. For me, phone calls are to be answered in real time (and there is over 20 seconds to answer the phone with 4+ rings). They take priority over everything I'm doing. SMS, emails and notifications are not a real time priority for me. If I get a vibration or a message, I might finish a conversation, or excuse myself from the table, or check it when "I have a few minutes". Again, I don't need to take a poll to know this is the case for the majority ("What percentage of the time do you answer your phone when it rings? What percentage of time do you check your phone when it vibrates?"). Simply stating, 'phone calls are higher priority than emails and texts'.
"ROFL. There you go again. No facts. No polls. You only cite "common sense" as your source. Why do you keep referencing a phone that is hovering in front of your face? You can't divert your eyes towards your phone in a fraction of a second? Based on your logic.....cars should blank out the speedometer display unless you are "looking at it". Hilarious."
Common sense can often be used as a source. That's why its common. Above is nonsense and will only hurt your reasoning. Not only are you supposed to look at your speedometer within every 10 seconds, you don't know where in that 10 seconds you'll look, so of course the screen is on all the time. There is plenty of battery for the speedometer, which is often analog anyways. But the speedometer is also always on just under where your eyes should be anyways. You don't put a speedometer in your pocket, or in the cup holder, or even the seat next to you. Very poor comparison.
"So....after over a year of being on the market and a year before that to develop, they still haven't perfected the process of letting the user turn on the backlight for an alert.....like ALL THEIR OTHER PHONES DID? Like other manufactures can do? Hmmmmm......interesting theory."
The hub is a new feature that wasn't really present in previous phones or platforms like it is today (nor was it feature complete on day 1). It's supposed to be the central place for messages and for knowing what is read and what isn't. This feature to display messages in locked state could be on the roadmap, it might not be. I'm not in favour and won't be (I have a Z10 and can use all the battery I have). If a message flashes on the phone when screen is locked, should it be marked as read or unread? Will you be annoyed when you have to mark all those read when they are marked unread, or marked read when you were looking away? Should the notification LED still notify that there is a message? Will Apple and Android continue with this feature as they move towards better central messaging systems? As others have stated, the LED is central to the notification system and provides alternate functionality than reading every message in real time. Would Apple still do this if they had a notification led?
You've made your case to me that there is a demand for this, but its limited to non-password, non-holster users who would like to see messages in real time. I get about 4 phone calls a day. I get over well over 100 messages a day (I'm sure these 'power users' get even more). If my phone lit up 5 seconds every time a message came in, I would NO DOUBT see an observable difference in battery life at the end of the day. Perhaps this could be 'green lit' for messages marked as priority...
As to making it an option, it raises additional questions about how messages are marked as read/unread, privacy for sensitive messages appearing on the screen, battery use, preventing accidentally pushes/swipes once activated, etc. It's not a slam dunk decision to go forth and make it happen by BB developers on their own. It takes understanding to go through different use cases and figure out the best scenario for the majority of the people. Adding an option to leave the screen on when plugged into power might be satisfactory as its clear what the users intentions and expectations are.
Ask someone at BlackBerry what their take on this and whether they'd ever option it. I've made my two cents, and that's all I have to say about that.03-10-14 08:41 PMLike 0 - Is turning the screen on "dumb" when you get a phone call? Because people can see who's calling you.
Strange that nearly every phone, even feature phones and lots of BlackBerry's , have turned on the screen for years even though it's "dumb".
If people are concerned about their phone being read at a table.....WHY are they putting it on a table????? Is it because they WANT to see the phone alert them to something? Or is it just to prove they deserve to sit at the table?
When you say "turning on your screen is hardly a hassle at all", you mean that simply looking at your phone....not touching it....just looking at it to see the message....is NO different that reaching for it....then swiping or button pushing....then another swipe...then a tap.......then another tap.........then wait for the phone to do a little graphics dance....then....you might see the message if your were last in the hub list......OR you could be up to 2 MORE swipes away. Now your 20 seconds in still trying to see if the darn message. Yea, that's hardly a hassle. After all, most people that carry BlackBerry's really have nothing better to do anyway.
How does BeBuzz or Hub++ make any difference? They don't effect this at all...they simply give you variations on vibe/ring, etc, but you still must go through the same sequence above just to actually see the message.
From there if you have enabled previews on the lock screen it will show all of what you have in the hub that is new and you can simply tap once to preview and then determine if you should unlock the phone to respond.
After you tapped to preview if you choose to respond, you just tap again -- unlock and are at the reply screen. It's really no more hassle than an iPhone.
As for people leaving their phones out, it just happens. I can't explain why people do what they do. But if it is out and not in the pocket I would prefer that things stay as they are, for my eyes only.
Posted via CB1003-11-14 01:09 AMLike 0 - This doesn't' address the OP's concern, this only lets you know who the message is from if it's one of your setup contacts. (and you can remember all of the various flashing light sequences or sounds) You still have to do everything being described in order to see the message or at least part of it.
Posted with my Z10 via CB1003-11-14 05:32 AMLike 0 - Just to add a little something to this I might have been able to get behind the whole battery saving idea if, when I do go to turn the screen on the actual message is there straight away. But it's not. You have to turn on the screen and then touch the specific icon you want to read notifications for.
Posted with my Z10 via CB1003-11-14 05:34 AMLike 0 - 1) Screen does not turn on when I get a text message, email or WhatsApp message. I get the vibration, sound LED flash and notification on the lock screen. But the screen never turns on. I thought I had been through all the settings menus by now but I still can't seem to fix this.
2) Email notifications do not disappear when I've read the email on my computer. This is the most annoying when at work. I'll get an email through, notification will go on my phone. I'll read it on the desktop but the LED will keep flashing on the phone and icon will remain on the lock screen until I unlock the device. On the iPhone notifications disappeared almost immediately once the email has been read so I assume there's a way to do this on the Q10 too?
6) Hub screen is slow to switch between areas. I've experienced hangs of over a second which doesn't sound like a lot but is very noticeable when using it. Considering this is one of the main areas of the phone it's very annoying that it should lag. I only have 1 work account, 1 personal account and WhatsApp signed up so I assume it should be quite fluid.
I know it sounds like a bit of a moan but I really am mostly happy with the phone. Any help or suggestions on any of the above would be great!
1. My preference is that the Screen does NOT turn on - this is a security/privacy feature. Or, do you want the screen to turn on to the lockscreen so you can type your PIN straight in?
2. For me, email notifications DO disappear for my personal IMAP and client Exchange accounts, but they do NOT for my POP3 accounts. For my IMAP account, the notifications disappear within about a minute - for my 2 Exchange accounts (2 different clients), 1 of them seems to update within a minute, the other one always takes nearer 5 minutes (I assume these are Exchange refresh settings that I have no control over)
6. The hub is always a bit laggy for me immediately after I have done an OS Update (eg yesterday) - but within a day it has always returned to normal (eg instantaneous and buttery-smooth.... have just tested it again now, less than 24 hours after my last OS update) - I have hundreds of emails (if not > thousand) in each account03-11-14 06:11 AMLike 0 -
Now, you'd think with all the extra time on their hands from not actually writing any basic code for something as simple as turning on the backlight, that they'd have tons of time developing marketing strategies. But..............................I digress.
Help me Obi Wan Chen, you're my only hope.
Posted via CB1003-11-14 06:54 AMLike 0 -
You haven't put forth any "ideas"...only your opinions and assertions about facts that turned out to be more of your opinions.
redlightblinking,
You discussed why you think the message should light the screen on all messages, and I made the case that its not done for battery savings. Ask BlackBerry, if you really want to know. Make a feature request with BlackBerry, I don't write the software..
redlightblinking,
Re: Phone calls. Phone calls are different than messages in that they are implied urgent. For me, phone calls are to be answered in real time (and there is over 20 seconds to answer the phone with 4+ rings). They take priority over everything I'm doing. SMS, emails and notifications are not a real time priority for me.
redlightblinking,
Again, I don't need to take a poll to know this is the case for the majority ("What percentage of the time do you answer your phone when it rings? What percentage of time do you check your phone when it vibrates?"). Simply stating, 'phone calls are higher priority than emails and texts'..
redlightblinking,
Above is nonsense and will only hurt your reasoning. Not only are you supposed to look at your speedometer within every 10 seconds, you don't know where in that 10 seconds you'll look, so of course the screen is on all the time. There is plenty of battery for the speedometer, which is often analog anyways. But the speedometer is also always on just under where your eyes should be anyways. You don't put a speedometer in your pocket, or in the cup holder, or even the seat next to you. Very poor comparison..
Soooooo...let's take your analogy further. You are "supposed" to look at the speedometer at intervals thus the reason it doesn't turn off when you look away. But, aren't you "supposed' to look at your phone when it is telling you a message came in? Isn't that the whole reason you set it to alert you (vibe or ring)? Otherwise....why have it makes sounds and vibrate?????
And, there is also plenty of battery to light up your screen for intervals that you could choose, especially on amoled screens. You keep referring to this battery scenario with no actual data of how much battery it consumes relative to the other battery sucking operations.
Of course....why wouldn't it? Eventually the screen would go dark again but the light keeps blinking. And the light being red tells you something is new, regardless of your screen state at that moment.
But it would be nice if when we got one of those notifications they'd just turn on the darn screen so I can divert my eyes for moment then go back to being productive in my day that is limited by this finite thing known as time.
redlightblinking,
I get about 4 phone calls a day. I get over well over 100 messages a day (I'm sure these 'power users' get even more). If my phone lit up 5 seconds every time a message came in, I would NO DOUBT see an observable difference in battery life at the end of the day. Perhaps this could be 'green lit' for messages marked as priority...
But think of how much more productivity you'd have.....how much time you wouldn't lose....if you weren't reaching for your phone, swiping and double tapping......over 100 times a day! Imagine if you just looked at your phone and let Hub++ or BeBuzz do the rest.
Privacy is user controllable. Don't want your phone being read....don't put it on the table unlocked for everyone to see what happens (like a phone call).
Battery use would obviously be some...but the question is how much. Until you have the feature you have no idea.
Accidental pushes/swipes? Your phone lights when you get a call. Same risk. It's about how you manage your phone.
redlightblinking,
It's not a slam dunk decision to go forth and make it happen by BB developers on their own. It takes understanding to go through different use cases and figure out the best scenario for the majority of the people. Adding an option to leave the screen on when plugged into power might be satisfactory as its clear what the users intentions and expectations are.
Strange that you talk about this "thorough" understanding as if its something that's never happened on any BlackBerry before....or any other phone for that matter.
The plug in option would at least a half measure. But a nice little option toggle would be nicer. And maybe a couple option toggles.Last edited by redlightblinking; 03-11-14 at 11:17 AM.
tack likes this.03-11-14 10:29 AMLike 1 -
Luckily Iphone and older BB's with apps give you that option, at least in some way. But no phone gives you this option for phone calls anyway. If you need to say "hey, look at me, I have an Iphone" (or whatever phone you have) then you are accepting the fact that it might ring or alert at at some point after you set it on the table.Last edited by redlightblinking; 03-11-14 at 11:11 AM.
03-11-14 10:53 AMLike 0 -
- Regarding why it makes sense to have the screen turn on for a phone call and not a message (to me) is that with a phone call, you have 20 seconds (approx) to answer it, in order to have that live conversation with someone. In my circles, you usually only call someone if you require an immediate response. So it makes sense that a call would light up your entire display, and show who is calling. A text message on the other hand, is not necessarily something that requires immediate response, so it makes sense to notify the recipient that a message has arrived, but not as important to have that message read the moment it is delivered. So in this respect, an LED is a nice way to notify that you have a message waiting.
As far as security is concerned I dont think that knowledge of who is calling could be as damaging as a text where you not only have the name, but the content (actual message) showing up the on screen as well.
In contrast, if the only notification you get is the phone's screen coming on for a few seconds as a text comes in, you risk not knowing about the message at all (until you unlock your phone) if you don’t happen to have the phone's screen in sight. Obviously this comes down to personal use; personally, I dont leave my phone facing me at all times, so having the screen show an incoming text briefly, wouldn’t do anything but drain the battery.
All that being said; sounds like the screen turning on briefly feature could be implemented very easily, so if people want it, bring it (just leave us the ability to disable it).BCITMike likes this.03-12-14 10:57 AMLike 1 - Also, how is it a 'dance' to check your messages on bb10? The lock screen shows a preview of your unread messages; from a sleeping/locked q10 you press one button to invoke the lock screen previews, and.. thats it. If thats a dance, its a pretty simple one.03-12-14 11:04 AMLike 0
- Few more observations:
The screen brightness range is nowhere near that of the 4s. That is, the screen does not get as dim or as bright on the Q10. This is quite annoying when using at night and you want a dim screen or using in sunlight and you want a bright screen.
Nobex seems to buffer a podcast that you've already downloaded. This is confusing. I've already downloaded the podcast. I shouldn't have to wait 5 to 10 seconds for it to "buffer" when I click play.
Is Nobex considered the best podcast player? Any recommendations? I just want an app focused on podcasting with good interface and easy to quickly skip back and forth through podcats in increments. Nobex seems OK but not exactly perfect.03-12-14 01:41 PMLike 0 -
What are your top FIVE things you'd like to see improved on BlackBerry 10? | CrackBerry.com03-12-14 01:48 PMLike 0 -
It is not helpful to be disgruntled about it and say that BlackBerry's developers are stupid for not offering a choice. Every mobile OS is different and every developer makes different choices. Just as BlackBerry 10 does not light up the screen when a notification comes in, the iPhone has no equivalent of an LED notification. Moreover, BlackBerry has limited resources and cannot implement everything. Even if they could, it is not always in their best interests to implement it, as the system may become bloated or unnecessarily complex. It's not always as simple. In the end, you have to adapt to your software, because the software will not adapt to all of your needs.03-12-14 02:04 PMLike 0 - Because there is no choice. The feature does not exist on BlackBerry 10 and there is no one besides BlackBerry who can do something about it. As many pointed out here, BlackBerry 10 handles notifications differently than, say, an iPhone, which may explain why BlackBerry had no reason to implement it thus far and why it is in no hurry to do so.
It is not helpful to be disgruntled about it and say that BlackBerry's developers are stupid for not offering a choice. Every mobile OS is different and every developer makes different choices. Just as BlackBerry 10 does not light up the screen when a notification comes in, the iPhone has no equivalent of an LED notification. Moreover, BlackBerry has limited resources and cannot implement everything. Even if they could, it is not always in their best interests to implement it, as the system may become bloated or unnecessarily complex. It's not always as simple. In the end, you have to adapt to your software, because the software will not adapt to all of your needs.
Posted via my amazing Q1003-12-14 03:10 PMLike 0 -
Just make this an option. People who like to be in the "look at my phone but not my messages" club can feel confident to put their phone on the table for all to see, but have the freedom to shroud the screen from those pesky friends to avoid those embarrassing messages getting seen while checking.Last edited by redlightblinking; 03-12-14 at 06:29 PM.
SmileDahling likes this.03-12-14 06:11 PMLike 1
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Switched from iPhone 4S to Q10. One week in. Mostly Happy. Few issues, maybe you can help?
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