10-14-13 06:27 AM
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  1. SoxFan's Avatar
    This quote from The Globe and Mail sums up the problem with the Q10:

    "And many long-time BlackBerry users found that the new system was too different from the classic BlackBerry experience for their liking. Many of the little “moments of delight,” as they are called in the company, were forgotten or overlooked by the QNX developers who lacked ties to the company’s past. For example, users can’t hit “u” and look at the last unread message in their inbox, nor can they easily shift to the next or previous e-mail, as they could on older BlackBerrys. Pocket-dialling is a constant hazard."
    xanadome likes this.
    10-02-13 09:12 PM
  2. Elite1's Avatar
    You mean "sums up your opinion" of the Q10.

    Don't get me wrong, I loved my keyboard shortcuts. I was a keyboard shortcuts machine, even adding QuickLaunch to the mix.
    On my Z10, I really miss space bar for page down, R or L to Reply/All, and yes also that U for Unread or alt+U to mark read/unread. And of course shift+scroll to highlight.

    But the advantages of BB10 over BBOS are massive. Full powered browser, relatively huge RAM and device memory, full powered gaming, high res display. You can't argue those. Maybe they don't matter to you, but the superiority of those features isn't up for debate.
    If someone doesn't care for the UI, Hub, Peek & Flow, Cascades, etc, then fair enough.

    But here's the difference: BBOS devices can never do/have the features I mentioned above. It's deficient in multiple key specs.
    On the other hand, BB10 has the prospect of these little gems being added in. Will they be? Who knows, I wouldn't tell someone they're coming as I have no idea. I'm just saying the potential is there. BBOS has no untapped potential left.
    tempered, KermEd, andy957 and 8 others like this.
    10-02-13 09:45 PM
  3. SoxFan's Avatar
    You mean "sums up your opinion" of the Q10.
    No, it's the Globe and Mail which has done a really good job of exposing the details and depth of this disaster.


    But the advantages of BB10 over BBOS are massive. Full powered browser, relatively huge RAM and device memory, full powered gaming, high res display. You can't argue those. Maybe they don't matter to you, but the superiority of those features isn't up for debate.
    I would expect these to be basic improvements on any new device after 2-3 years in R&D. Every computer device has more RAM and more power 1-2 years later. The browser is faster, which we all would have expected any new product launch to have (as did previous ones), As for the display, I think it's a functional disaster: looks nice inside, try reading it in the sunlight. The old screen was fine; I'll make that trade anytime...although not sure why I have to sacrifice a better screen with the inability to read it in the sun?

    Gaming? Enough said!

    Actually, they also added this little diddy about how BBY alienated the business customers and developers:

    "Meanwhile, the company was slow to provide service to business users – such as helping them to transfer applications they had written for the old BlackBerry system. Software developers were left with dead-end investments after learning they would have to rewrite their apps for the new system if they wanted to remain part of the BlackBerry world. Many simply didn’t bother."

    Sure helps explain things.
    10-02-13 10:13 PM
  4. mithrazor's Avatar
    I'm not sure what they're talking about. I came from BBOS to Q10. I found plenty moment of delights.

    Also yes it's different from BBOS because it's supposed to be. It did take time to get accustomed to the new BB10. But it didn't take long and I love it.

    Posted via CB10
    koebi90, Shumsher, Elite1 and 3 others like this.
    10-03-13 02:34 AM
  5. Danny Ocean's Avatar
    I'm also in the camp of folks that are very happy with the Q10. Also, if "gaming" on your phone is your thing, the Q10 is obviously not for you. That's like buying an SUV and then complaining that the quarter mile time isn't very fast.

    Posted via CB10
    Shumsher, PJD642, andy957 and 2 others like this.
    10-03-13 04:01 AM
  6. TomasTT's Avatar
    As a long time user of 9700 and two 9900s, I must agree with SonFan. Q10 is for me great piece of hardware but OS implementation on that hardware is very poor.
    Dozens of examples, how Q10 is not efficient in daily work. This is important thing - WORK! Maybe itīs fine for somebody, who use it for fun, but for work itīs like return 5 years back in history.
    Examples: I expected device with HW keyboard to be able to do practical operations, what HW keyboard allow - for example holding SHIFT key and tapping on messages may select more then one for easy delete without need to open side bar, enabling option to select more then one and then tapping and deleting multiple lines. When you get 300+ mails on several acounts every day, you notice how inefficient is above operation, when you do it every ten minutes all day. Why there is no cooperation between hardware keyboard and OS at least for selection? If there is no longer cursor pad or keys, at least option to select text with holding shift would be so practical. If I want text selection like on iPhone, I would buy iOS (what I anyway own) and not device with keyboard. I want keyboard as I think itīs faster and much more better for typing text. Typing need often to select part of text, copy and paste as well as selecting multiple raws of messages etc. All this is possible to do with using shift key. Not on Q10.
    Why is not possible to use automatic text replacement where are end of lines? Impossible to use for easy signature for example. When you work for several organisations, itīs quite easy to advice somebody in the mail to contact this or that company using simple word in automatic replacement, what will bring quite long block of text with mails, phone numbers, links etc.. In Q10 I can do it also, but the text is in single line! I have to spend minutes to enter breaks then. Inefficient.
    Why is not possible to display my tasks or calendar entries for today on the desktop? Instead of first 12 app icons, I would much more enjoy just four selected apps and list of calendar entries on the wallpaper. Using DeToday on homescreen on BB 9900 was so effective. Just one look and you saw, what is your next schedule, when you should be somewhere etc.
    Q10 now is wasting display space. I could not imagine how bad and ineffective is modern phone with just few mail raws on display. On my old 9900 or even 9700 I could display six mails at once (six raws where each raw was one mail with short details). Here I see just three. On the top under status bar with battery and clock is quite thick box with mailbox name and V sign for unfolding folders. This is example of bad display design. This bar is twice thicker then it need to be. Wasting space. Envelope icon on each raw is huge. It could be 20% and it would work. I think there should be option to scale everything regarding each user needs. Not only text, but everything. Resolution of the display is perfect, so why we need such extralarge icons? I want to see as many mails at once as possible in the list. And the same for SMS, FB notifications etc...
    On the phone with HW keyboard is not possible to use keyboard shortcuts for easy and quick dialing certain contacts? It was possible with 10years old Nokia. Both 9700 and 9900 were able to call certain number when you press and hold certain button. Not on Q10. Sometimes you have just one hand available, such shortcuts make life much easier then.
    Iīm very dissapointed by the OS and itīs integration with this great hardware. I think, Blackberry should look at devices with keyboard a bit different way in compare with devices with touchscreen only. Most of people who buy phones with keyboard want to use it for something else then listening music or taking photos and browsing social networks. We use it for work. And missing details are annoying. Seriously annoying. I will keep using 9900 as long as possible, even when is overloaded due to poor memory and speed. But OS is so much more effective, that using Q10 for work is for me at the moment impossible.
    I would be glad to hear some plans of developers from Blackberry - I saw somewhere articles how sales of keyboard phones are dropping down. Of coarse - with such poor implementation of potential of hardware keyboard itīs clear. I cannot advice anybody to buy such device. Really not. I like itīs speed, display etc.. But for me is most important little details, what I use every day every hour. And those details are missing. Would be great to see the list of WIBNIs from the development team - to have idea, if give up with Blackberry forever or if make sense to wait for updated OS.
    10-03-13 04:56 AM
  7. SoxFan's Avatar
    I'm not sure what they're talking about. I came from BBOS to Q10. I found plenty moment of delights.

    Also yes it's different from BBOS because it's supposed to be. It did take time to get accustomed to the new BB10. But it didn't take long and I love it.

    Posted via CB10
    You're in the VAST minority, but be happy that they designed a device that works for you...they lost billions (and probably the company) in the process, but at least you're happy. Good for you and the small legions that share your perspective.

    If they were going to to introduce a new OS to get better browsing and a few other things, they should have done it in such a way where the functionality mirrored/replicated the user experience of the prior models. Then, they could have introduced some new features, like screen shots, and people would be saying: "wow, this is so cool, just like my old device but faster, with better tools, better camera, new features. This is the best Blackberry ever and the best smartphone on the market." Unfortunately, that's not what happened...they didn't even have access to the BBY7 development team...the result is a weird hybrid that has very limited appeal and a lot of disappointment, having alienating their core BBY audience w/o creating much appeal to new customers (pretty hard to out iPhone Apple and out Galaxy Samsung at their own game -- never made sense to even try).
    kirson likes this.
    10-03-13 09:30 AM
  8. TomasTT's Avatar
    I really think that new BB hardware is the best on the market.
    They just really MUST update OS and bring those features, what this market segment needs. Every BB user I know (about 6 people around) is shocked, when I tell them, that automatic text replacement does not work with carriage return for example. They donīt believe it until I show them.. Those may be "little details" for magazine editors, who use every week different phone, but for key customers who can spend premium money for premium device, is this not acceptable. Porting touchscreen OS on device with keyboard without fine implementation of keyboard functions in the OS is simply wasting potential and money - and this is exactly, what happened. I have now device with keyboard, what is running OS designed for touchscreen operations. Same horrible implementation as tablet OS running on notebook (tiles in Win8 on ultrabook without touchscreen is simply pain and many users give up and return to Win7 instead).
    This is not way, how to get customers. I happy user can get few more friends to buy Blackberry device.. Iīm very unhappy.
    10-03-13 10:53 AM
  9. SoxFan's Avatar
    I really think that new BB hardware is the best on the market.
    They just really MUST update OS and bring those features, what this market segment needs. Every BB user I know (about 6 people around) is shocked, when I tell them, that automatic text replacement does not work with carriage return for example. They donīt believe it until I show them.. Those may be "little details" for magazine editors, who use every week different phone, but for key customers who can spend premium money for premium device, is this not acceptable. Porting touchscreen OS on device with keyboard without fine implementation of keyboard functions in the OS is simply wasting potential and money - and this is exactly, what happened. I have now device with keyboard, what is running OS designed for touchscreen operations. Same horrible implementation as tablet OS running on notebook (tiles in Win8 on ultrabook without touchscreen is simply pain and many users give up and return to Win7 instead).
    This is not way, how to get customers. I happy user can get few more friends to buy Blackberry device.. Iīm very unhappy.
    The hardware is fine (except for the huge mistake of eliminating the trackpad, probably irreversible; the fact that the screen can't be seen in the sunlight, although maybe there's a future adjustment that will enable a sunlight mode?; and the space bar insecurity).

    But the software is so "far out' it is unlikely to be redeveloped the way the market wants it -- mirroring the BBS7 functionality, bringing back those little moments of delight -- although, it is likely to undergo slow but continuous fixes (just look at how long 10.2 has taken to be released, and we know that's only a minor fix).

    Not only are we missing the little moments of delight but there are so many things that are made more painful because of this conceptual structural design of the software. For example, I am told many of the problems with Contacts are due to the social media integration with LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, etc. We'll, maybe a good idea on paper to appeal to people that would like that integration, but I use all three to some degree and prefer a non-integrated framework of the cost of integration is slowness or other dysfunction with my core contacts.

    I think this is the crux of the problem. In order to attempt to "do more" to attract new users (such as social media contact integration) BBY made the user experience for the core 99% slower/worse. Maybe they got 1% new customers, but they only have an abysmal 2% conversion of BBY customers. Not a good tradeoff.
    kirson likes this.
    10-03-13 11:22 AM
  10. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    You again???? Just get rid of your Q10 (sell it on ebay) and go buy something else if you don't like it. I have a 9930 and an iPhone 5 if you want to buy one. They are both going on ebay this week, if you are interested. OR maybe you can learn to use the Q10 properly and maybe you'll like it? Who knows? Love your quote below.

    For example, I am told many of the problems with Contacts are due to the social media integration with LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, etc. We'll, maybe a good idea on paper to appeal to people that would like that integration, but I use all three to some degree and prefer a non-integrated framework of the cost of integration is slowness or other dysfunction with my core contacts.
    10-03-13 02:31 PM
  11. FCSC's Avatar
    You're in the VAST minority,
    source?

    numbers?
    10-03-13 03:30 PM
  12. mkmilan's Avatar
    As a long time user of 9700 and two 9900s, I must agree with SonFan. Q10 is for me great piece of hardware but OS implementation on that hardware is very poor.
    Dozens of examples, how Q10 is not efficient in daily work. This is important thing - WORK! Maybe itīs fine for somebody, who use it for fun, but for work itīs like return 5 years back in history.
    Examples: I expected device with HW keyboard to be able to do practical operations, what HW keyboard allow - for example holding SHIFT key and tapping on messages may select more then one for easy delete without need to open side bar, enabling option to select more then one and then tapping and deleting multiple lines. When you get 300+ mails on several acounts every day, you notice how inefficient is above operation, when you do it every ten minutes all day. Why there is no cooperation between hardware keyboard and OS at least for selection? If there is no longer cursor pad or keys, at least option to select text with holding shift would be so practical. If I want text selection like on iPhone, I would buy iOS (what I anyway own) and not device with keyboard. I want keyboard as I think itīs faster and much more better for typing text. Typing need often to select part of text, copy and paste as well as selecting multiple raws of messages etc. All this is possible to do with using shift key. Not on Q10.
    Why is not possible to use automatic text replacement where are end of lines? Impossible to use for easy signature for example. When you work for several organisations, itīs quite easy to advice somebody in the mail to contact this or that company using simple word in automatic replacement, what will bring quite long block of text with mails, phone numbers, links etc.. In Q10 I can do it also, but the text is in single line! I have to spend minutes to enter breaks then. Inefficient.
    Why is not possible to display my tasks or calendar entries for today on the desktop? Instead of first 12 app icons, I would much more enjoy just four selected apps and list of calendar entries on the wallpaper. Using DeToday on homescreen on BB 9900 was so effective. Just one look and you saw, what is your next schedule, when you should be somewhere etc.
    Q10 now is wasting display space. I could not imagine how bad and ineffective is modern phone with just few mail raws on display. On my old 9900 or even 9700 I could display six mails at once (six raws where each raw was one mail with short details). Here I see just three. On the top under status bar with battery and clock is quite thick box with mailbox name and V sign for unfolding folders. This is example of bad display design. This bar is twice thicker then it need to be. Wasting space. Envelope icon on each raw is huge. It could be 20% and it would work. I think there should be option to scale everything regarding each user needs. Not only text, but everything. Resolution of the display is perfect, so why we need such extralarge icons? I want to see as many mails at once as possible in the list. And the same for SMS, FB notifications etc...
    On the phone with HW keyboard is not possible to use keyboard shortcuts for easy and quick dialing certain contacts? It was possible with 10years old Nokia. Both 9700 and 9900 were able to call certain number when you press and hold certain button. Not on Q10. Sometimes you have just one hand available, such shortcuts make life much easier then.
    Iīm very dissapointed by the OS and itīs integration with this great hardware. I think, Blackberry should look at devices with keyboard a bit different way in compare with devices with touchscreen only. Most of people who buy phones with keyboard want to use it for something else then listening music or taking photos and browsing social networks. We use it for work. And missing details are annoying. Seriously annoying. I will keep using 9900 as long as possible, even when is overloaded due to poor memory and speed. But OS is so much more effective, that using Q10 for work is for me at the moment impossible.
    I would be glad to hear some plans of developers from Blackberry - I saw somewhere articles how sales of keyboard phones are dropping down. Of coarse - with such poor implementation of potential of hardware keyboard itīs clear. I cannot advice anybody to buy such device. Really not. I like itīs speed, display etc.. But for me is most important little details, what I use every day every hour. And those details are missing. Would be great to see the list of WIBNIs from the development team - to have idea, if give up with Blackberry forever or if make sense to wait for updated OS.
    Totally agree, then some ...... am holding on to my 9900 as it manages my life, and have read about some of the most used features missing in Q10 (not to mention that trackpad) along with key apps not moving to BB10. For games, movies, etc, I have a tablet, as phones or phablets don't make the grade visually.
    10-03-13 03:36 PM
  13. mkmilan's Avatar
    You again???? Just get rid of your Q10 (sell it on ebay) and go buy something else if you don't like it. I have a 9930 and an iPhone 5 if you want to buy one. They are both going on ebay this week, if you are interested. OR maybe you can learn to use the Q10 properly and maybe you'll like it? Who knows? Love your quote below.
    Maybe for some it's not about THEM USING it properly, **** BB not properly meeting ALL NEEDS the BB7 had and left in the dust >>>>>>
    10-03-13 03:41 PM
  14. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    try reading what I quoted. regardless, if you don't like the phone, go buy a different one. it's not complicated.

    Maybe for some it's not about THEM USING it properly, **** BB not properly meeting ALL NEEDS the BB7 had and left in the dust >>>>>>
    moyah8 likes this.
    10-03-13 04:04 PM
  15. EmergencyManagement's Avatar
    For me it boils down to massive disappointment. I've been carrying at least one Blackberry since 2005. In early 2013 I got the NoteII to replace my personal phone but waited on the Q10 for my emergency phone (my personal phone is a USCC and my emergency phone is Verizon). Apparently US Cellular isn't continuing with any new Blackberry and I really needed some specific things. I stood by Blackberry and still held out hope. I use BBM all the time to reach other emergency professionals.
    This phone is a failure. Plain and simple. I'll brag a lot about the camera, the browser but this phone has caused a large amount of problems. Including freezing at incident scenes, typing in a contact (remember I can't speed dial) and not being able to dial it and the lack of custom ring tones.
    There's no major one thing (for me) that failed. It's a tremendous amount of little things. I can't count on this phone. I'm trying out a Droid next week (the one with the keyboard) and if I don't like it I'll go with a Note II for my emergency phone.
    For the first time in 8 years I won't be carrying a Blackberry. Sad.
    walkercup likes this.
    10-03-13 04:15 PM
  16. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    good luck with your droid. they are not bad phones. i have used a droid, iPhone 5 and well over 30 BB's. The Q10 blows them all away. I have had two Q10's...none ever froze....EVER. that's a problem with your phone. just replace it. very simple. no custom ring tones? seriously? i have added 30 plus custom tones to my phone because i use specific tones for specific contacts. you will have the same issues with droids and iphones. you have to learn how to use them before they will really do what you want them to do.

    For me it boils down to massive disappointment. I've been carrying at least one Blackberry since 2005. In early 2013 I got the NoteII to replace my personal phone but waited on the Q10 for my emergency phone (my personal phone is a USCC and my emergency phone is Verizon). Apparently US Cellular isn't continuing with any new Blackberry and I really needed some specific things. I stood by Blackberry and still held out hope. I use BBM all the time to reach other emergency professionals.
    This phone is a failure. Plain and simple. I'll brag a lot about the camera, the browser but this phone has caused a large amount of problems. Including freezing at incident scenes, typing in a contact (remember I can't speed dial) and not being able to dial it and the lack of custom ring tones.
    There's no major one thing (for me) that failed. It's a tremendous amount of little things. I can't count on this phone. I'm trying out a Droid next week (the one with the keyboard) and if I don't like it I'll go with a Note II for my emergency phone.
    For the first time in 8 years I won't be carrying a Blackberry. Sad.
    10-03-13 04:49 PM
  17. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    Gosh, not this this poor dead horse again...

    When will SoxFan & friends finally understand that BB10 is not the evolution of BBOS, but a completely new OS developed from the ground up. Something that BlackBerry needed to do; no if's, and's or but's about it; none!

    The sooner they realize this simple fact, the happier we will all be. The fact is the company needed to make a drastic change in an entirely new direction to attempt to stay relevant in today's market. It's very clear that BB10 was never designed with the BBOS horde in mind; not even as an afterthought, so get over it. It was what needed to happen in order for the company to appeal to more mainstream consumers; and let's be honest with ourselves, they needed to start appealing to the masses and to people who never used a BlackBerry before.

    I was once one of the many people who had never used a BlackBerry before BB10 (and no, I will never use BBOS7 or any other version prior to BB10, period), but I'm so glad I gave the Q10 a shot when I needed a new phone. It's exactly what I needed from both a work and personal device, hands down. I knwo SoxFan & friends will say how much more efficient their 9800/9900 were at everything, and all I can say to them is I could not care any less. BBOS seemed like an archaic and incredibly unpleasing OS to learn to navigate; and in the age of OS'es with enhanced UX it shouldn't be, period. BB10 is everything I (and don't kid yourselves SoxFan & friends) and many others could have ever hoped for in a mobile solution for both work and personal use.

    So in closing; either switch phones/platforms, or adapt. Simple, no? But for the love of everything holy, leave us alone already!

    Posted via CB10
    10-03-13 06:33 PM
  18. Alex Keb's Avatar
    I've been a bold user since 9000 and Q10 is the dream BlackBerry phone I always wanted.

    Posted via CB10
    10-03-13 06:43 PM
  19. brunoxrs's Avatar
    Ain't it the truth?

    Posted via CB10
    waterfrontmgmt likes this.
    10-03-13 06:47 PM
  20. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    exactly. can't wait until they roll out 10.2

    I've been a bold user since 9000 and Q10 is the dream BlackBerry phone I always wanted.

    Posted via CB10
    10-03-13 07:10 PM
  21. kirson's Avatar
    Wow. I guess you're right. Let's say goodbye to the rapidly dwindling 70 million BBOS users, and put our hopes for the future on those rapidly dwindling - yet excited - 3 million BB10 users. I for one will not stop crying over the loss of the classic moments of delight and my beloved trackpad. I know they are gone forever, but I weep at their passing. Without those special features, the BB10 devices are just slightly better or slightly worse iPhones (depending on your orientation). Nothing much to suggest a bright future following that strategy.
    10-03-13 07:15 PM
  22. mithrazor's Avatar
    Totally agree, then some ...... am holding on to my 9900 as it manages my life, and have read about some of the most used features missing in Q10 (not to mention that trackpad) along with key apps not moving to BB10. For games, movies, etc, I have a tablet, as phones or phablets don't make the grade visually.
    I definitely missed the trackpad at first too. But then I realized, the screen is touch and the keyboard is still there. The functionality still remains. Just an alternative way to do it.

    For example, press shift and TAP where you want to highlight the text. It also has that little circle that pops up, you can drag that to get even more precise.

    I feel a lot of you aren't good with change so you put the blame on BlackBerry.

    Like I said, BB10 is VASTLY different from BBOS. Adapt.
    Elite1, axllebeer, moyah8 and 1 others like this.
    10-03-13 09:10 PM
  23. Benjamin_NYC's Avatar
    I think RFA is a "wow moment" or whatever it's called.

    Posted via CB10
    10-03-13 09:13 PM
  24. Benjamin_NYC's Avatar
    SHIFT TAP! Didn't know about that!

    Posted via CB10
    10-03-13 09:14 PM
  25. lipa123's Avatar
    The Screen scale, not being able to fit more Lines of Text onto the screen in the Hub / BBM chat or anywhere else is a real killer for the Q
    This is the reson for me to try the Z10/Z30 & take it from there, but no Q for now

    See here: #'s 4, 5, & 8 forums.crackberry.com/blackberry-q10-f272/q10-bugs-annoyances-wishlist-first-update-803136/
    TomasTT likes this.
    10-04-13 02:14 AM
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