12-20-14 10:14 PM
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  1. cartoon2007's Avatar
    See prior post for what everyone is complaining about lol

    I bet if there was a removeable battery option for each device for the same price...those same devices with non removeable batteries wouldn't sell too well.

    Rockin the Q
    09-19-14 12:26 AM
  2. Lithtech's Avatar
    With a fixed battery the phone can be thinner, lighter, and cheaper.

    That's three valid arguments right there.

    Posted via CB10
    1: Lack of control/freedom
    2: Thinner? it's not a deal breaker we don't mind if some of the phones are a bit chunky...
    3: What if your battery dies and you simply cant replace it with a fully charged one? (and you cant charge it where you are?)


    I would pay extra just to have the 'replaceable' battery.
    hlg8888 likes this.
    09-19-14 12:58 AM
  3. Coraya's Avatar
    With a fixed battery the phone can be thinner, lighter, and cheaper.

    That's three valid arguments right there.

    Posted via CB10
    None of those arguments are valid.

    1. Phones weigh OUNCES. If an 8 ounce phone gives a person trouble, weighs them down, they need to eat, or see a doctor. The weight factor is null.

    2. Thinner? To fit where? Do you want to put the phone in your wallet? The thinner these devices get, the more prone they are to damage. "Get a case" you may say. Ok well, what's the point of having a thing phone then? It's not a brick you know. Your wallet is thicker than a phone I'm sure. Keys are the most uncomfortable thing in your pocket. I doubt the thinness of the device causes issues. I'd understand if we were in the eighties, but not now.

    3. Cheaper? Where did you get that from? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Hmm, well if it is, the majority who wanted the classic are people who WANT a removable battery. If BlackBerry doesn't offer that, they're not going to make the projected sales. And why won't they make the projected sales? Ohhh...that's right...they went the cheap route.

    Posted via Q10RR
    podes2204 likes this.
    09-19-14 04:53 AM
  4. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Look, I'm not even saying that I agree with the switch to permanent batteries, but you can't say there are NO valid arguments.

    You may not care if your phone is thinner and lighter, but it's been drummed into consumers' heads that they should care. Not unlike the mantra of "longer, lower, wider" for US cars back in the 60s.

    And yes, it's cheaper. It's a little less material in the phone, it's a cheaper connector, and the logistics for the company get easier because that's one less retail SKU to maintain. And the retailers aren't crazy about carrying a dozen different batteries for each manufacturer.

    I was at my local drugstore last night and you know what they had? An external microUSB auxiliary battery! Already charged, even. That's actually better than a replacement battery because there's no way the drugstore would stock every single possible BlackBerry battery.

    Posted via CB10
    Joshu42 likes this.
    09-19-14 05:20 AM
  5. Coraya's Avatar
    Look, I'm not even saying that I agree with the switch to permanent batteries, but you can't say there are NO valid arguments.

    You may not care if your phone is thinner and lighter, but it's been drummed into consumers' heads that they should care. Not unlike the mantra of "longer, lower, wider" for US cars back in the 60s.

    And yes, it's cheaper. It's a little less material in the phone, it's a cheaper connector, and the logistics for the company get easier because that's one less retail SKU to maintain. And the retailers aren't crazy about carrying a dozen different batteries for each manufacturer.

    I was at my local drugstore last night and you know what they had? An external microUSB auxiliary battery! Already charged, even. That's actually better than a replacement battery because there's no way the drugstore would stock every single possible BlackBerry battery.

    Posted via CB10
    Ok. So it's cheaper for the manufacturer, and more convenient for the retailer. That's where you made a good point, but still. A benefit to the end-user is nonexistant.
    Having to grab a USB, external battery/charger is more out of the pocket from the consumer. It's an inconvenience. Although it keeps your phone from dying, there is still a cable dangling from the device. And even if you hold it against the back of the phone, the "thin"-ness goes away. Who wants to carry two devices wired to one another? There are many more pros than cons when we're speaking of the benefits of a removable battery.
    Posted via Q10RR
    09-19-14 07:25 AM
  6. cartoon2007's Avatar
    None of those arguments are valid.

    1. Phones weigh OUNCES. If an 8 ounce phone gives a person trouble, weighs them down, they need to eat, or see a doctor. The weight factor is null.

    2. Thinner? To fit where? Do you want to put the phone in your wallet? The thinner these devices get, the more prone they are to damage. "Get a case" you may say. Ok well, what's the point of having a thing phone then? It's not a brick you know. Your wallet is thicker than a phone I'm sure. Keys are the most uncomfortable thing in your pocket. I doubt the thinness of the device causes issues. I'd understand if we were in the eighties, but not now.

    3. Cheaper? Where did you get that from? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Hmm, well if it is, the majority who wanted the classic are people who WANT a removable battery. If BlackBerry doesn't offer that, they're not going to make the projected sales. And why won't they make the projected sales? Ohhh...that's right...they went the cheap route.

    Posted via Q10RR
    well said

    Posted via CB/Q10
    09-19-14 08:19 AM
  7. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Ok. So it's cheaper for the manufacturer, and more convenient for the retailer. That's where you made a good point, but still. A benefit to the end-user is nonexistant.
    Having to grab a USB, external battery/charger is more out of the pocket from the consumer. It's an inconvenience. Although it keeps your phone from dying, there is still a cable dangling from the device. And even if you hold it against the back of the phone, the "thin"-ness goes away. Who wants to carry two devices wired to one another? There are many more pros than cons when we're speaking of the benefits of a removable battery.
    Posted via Q10RR
    Personally I've been able to cope. If my phone is getting low and I'm away from power I just plug in the battery bundle and let the phone sit in my pocket for 10 minutes or so and I'm good for a few hours. I've hardly ever had to actually use the phone with an external battery attached.

    But it IS easier to just plug in a battery than to swap one, at least for me. And I'll admit that I have the tools and the ability to change the permanent battery out myself when the original one deteriorates enough.

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-14 10:55 AM
  8. Coraya's Avatar
    Personally I've been able to cope. If my phone is getting low and I'm away from power I just plug in the battery bundle and let the phone sit in my pocket for 10 minutes or so and I'm good for a few hours. I've hardly ever had to actually use the phone with an external battery attached.

    But it IS easier to just plug in a battery than to swap one, at least for me. And I'll admit that I have the tools and the ability to change the permanent battery out myself when the original one deteriorates enough.

    Posted via CB10
    I'm trying to understand how it's easier. Why only have "a few hours" from an external charge over a fully charged battery that could last you 24 hours? Slide off the back switch the batteries and wait a couple of minutes for a boot up. MUCH less than the 10 mins that the phone will be sitting with the charger in your pocket, which again, will only last a couple of hours.

    Posted via Q10RR
    09-19-14 11:09 AM
  9. Banco's Avatar
    If removable batteries were that big a deal, then customers would demand them. They just don't. I realise that when things that matter to us individually it's hard to appreciate others don't care, but the reality is that they don't.

    All the advantages to a built in battery above are valid, and the disadvantages aren't considered sufficiently important to worry the consumer. When the new iPhone was released, did you see anyone asking for the known battery issues to be resolved by having removable ones? No. No one said it, they wanted Apple to put a better battery in.

    Now personally, I quite like a removable battery. On my Z30 I don't have that, and I use the charger bundle on very long days if I need to. Yes, I would prefer to swap a battery, but I can't, and what I want isn't what the majority remotely give a stuff about.

    And that's that I'm afraid.

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-14 11:15 AM
  10. Coraya's Avatar
    If removable batteries were that big a deal, then customers would demand them. They just don't. I realise that when things that matter to us individually it's hard to appreciate others don't care, but the reality is that they don't.

    All the advantages to a built in battery above are valid, and the disadvantages aren't considered sufficiently important to worry the consumer. When the new iPhone was released, did you see anyone asking for the known battery issues to be resolved by having removable ones? No. No one said it, they wanted Apple to put a better battery in.

    Now personally, I quite like a removable battery. On my Z30 I don't have that, and I use the charger bundle on very long days if I need to. Yes, I would prefer to swap a battery, but I can't, and what I want isn't what the majority remotely give a stuff about.

    And that's that I'm afraid.

    Posted via CB10
    I understand that. But I can't agree that those benefits are valid. Read through the posts on this thread and several others regarding the BlackBerry classic. A high percentage of the people with the desire of purchasing the classic are having second thoughts on purchasing the device BECAUSE it appears that it has a fixed battery. Apparently people do care enough not to buy it and stick with their Q10.

    Posted via Q10RR
    hlg8888 likes this.
    09-19-14 11:46 AM
  11. Banco's Avatar
    I understand that. But I can't agree that those benefits are valid. Read through the posts on this thread and several others regarding the BlackBerry classic. A high percentage of the people with the desire of purchasing the classic are having second thoughts on purchasing the device BECAUSE it appears that it has a fixed battery. Apparently people do care enough not to buy it and stick with their Q10.

    Posted via Q10RR
    But it doesn't matter whether you agree they are valid or not, the reality is that it's how others see it. The whole thinness of a phone IS something that's part of the appeal for users. As for the Classic, it's a subset of a subset - kind of like how some on here talk about how critical a physical keyboard is. For most, it just isn't, and the sales reflect that.

    It's always hard for any of us to accept that what matters to us is of supreme irrelevance to others. But this is an example.

    Posted via CB10
    Tre Lawrence likes this.
    09-19-14 11:59 AM
  12. hlg8888's Avatar
    So what happens if you have to participate in a conference-call while at the airport, you hold it against your ear with the external battery dangling in front of your face?

    Posted via CB10
    Coraya likes this.
    09-19-14 12:11 PM
  13. Coraya's Avatar
    So what happens if you have to participate in a conference-call while at the airport, you hold it against your ear with the external battery dangling in front of your face?

    Posted via CB10
    Wow. Didn't think of this one. Good point. Let's see what clever come back they have lol

    Posted via Q10RR
    09-19-14 12:19 PM
  14. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    So what happens if you have to participate in a conference-call while at the airport, you hold it against your ear with the external battery dangling in front of your face?

    Posted via CB10
    This is a red herring, but there are a couple of solutions: bluetooth ear piece, use of a power case in lieu of external charger, etc. Preferable to turning off the phone and waiting it to reboot for me.

    I think what some folks are trying to get across isn't that sealed batteries are better; just that it's possible to retain productivity with them. In my case, I'd prefer a removable battery, but not enough to shun a truly effective device.

    When it's all said and done, I'd take good battery life on my primary unit over 10 extra batteries.
    Thunderbuck, LazyEvul and just_luc like this.
    09-19-14 12:39 PM
  15. Ment's Avatar
    The downsides of non-removeable batteries are going to be minimal once the quick charge tech in phones like the new Moto X become the norm where you get a 50% charge in 15 minutes.
    09-19-14 01:13 PM
  16. Coraya's Avatar
    This is a red herring, but there are a couple of solutions: bluetooth ear piece, use of a power case in lieu of external charger, etc. Preferable to turning off the phone and waiting it to reboot for me.

    I think what some folks are trying to get across isn't that sealed batteries are better; just that it's possible to retain productivity with them. In my case, I'd prefer a removable battery, but not enough to shun a truly effective device.

    When it's all said and done, I'd take good battery life on my primary unit over 10 extra batteries.
    So now, instead of just replacing the battery and only having to carry an extra battery and a phone, you have an external charger connected to the device and now have to carry a bluetooth ear piece. Not cost efficient for the customer either and I couldn't see the convenience.

    Posted via Q10RR
    09-19-14 02:48 PM
  17. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    So now, instead of just replacing the battery and only having to carry an extra battery and a phone, you have an external charger connected to the device and now have to carry a bluetooth ear piece. Not cost efficient for the customer either and I couldn't see the convenience.

    Posted via Q10RR
    Nah, for my workflow, I use a bluetooth earpiece anyway. I'd rather have a solution that allows me to stay connected rather than rebooting.

    To each his own, though. I can't discount your needs.
    09-19-14 03:08 PM
  18. just_luc's Avatar
    I've made the point elsewhere but I'll recap here:

    1. Easier to make the phone thinner and lighter
    2. Easier logistics since the replacement battery doesn't have to be maintained as a retail item
    3. LiON batteries DO last longer


    Blame Apple for this. The upside: there are all kinds of portable charging batteries available now anyway. When I upgraded to a Z30 I kept the battery bundle I'd bought with my Q10.
    I'm in agreement with this.. yes in theory I'd still like a removable battery. But to me it's less of an issue now that batteries are lasting longer. And if non removable is what needs to be done in order to make them bigger and thinner (and yes they can make the battery larger, and give it more power if it doesn't need a separate case) then I'm actually for it. When it comes right down to it.. I'll take the one built in battery that lasts 24 hours over my Z10's removable battery that I have to swap and reboot the phone 3 times a day.. and I'll keep an external battery pack around for emergencies, camping trips etc were I'll be away from the charger overnight.

    Posted via CB10
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    09-19-14 03:16 PM
  19. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I'm trying to understand how it's easier. Why only have "a few hours" from an external charge over a fully charged battery that could last you 24 hours? Slide off the back switch the batteries and wait a couple of minutes for a boot up. MUCH less than the 10 mins that the phone will be sitting with the charger in your pocket, which again, will only last a couple of hours.

    Posted via Q10RR
    Because I DON'T HAVE TO POWER THE PHONE DOWN to do it.

    Granted, some of this is circumstance. My job tends to give me ample access to quick juice top-ups, either at my desk or in my truck.

    And I CAN get a bigger charge if I choose. I can carry multiple small chargers, or I've got a bigger device about the size of an original cassette Walkman that can charge my Z30 fully maybe 7 or 8 times over. And it cost less than any OEM BlackBerry battery I've ever bought.

    Posted via CB10
    NtotheK likes this.
    09-19-14 03:56 PM
  20. rbtg's Avatar
    most people will replace the phone when battery goes bad if you can't replace it and nsa will record your conversations through your microphone even if the phone it's turned off but if you have removable battery you are able to take it off and that will end any remote access procedure.
    podes2204 likes this.
    09-19-14 06:49 PM
  21. Banco's Avatar
    Oddly enough, in the pub tonight someone had an iPhone 6. Main comment from those having a quick play with it? "It's so thin.....!"

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-14 06:55 PM
  22. early2bed's Avatar
    Is there any doubt that most people would choose thinner in a side-by-side comparison? The soon-to-be market leading iPhone 6 is 6.9mm thick. That doesn't leave much room, at all, for a battery door and a removable battery with its own case. If your removable battery is going to be wider and thinner then you certainly can't cut back on the rigidity of the case.

    If there was any future in replaceable smartphone batteries then the iPhone 6/6+ pretty much ended it.
    09-19-14 09:07 PM
  23. thomascgty's Avatar
    So it seems that I have to buy a Q10 very soon since the Classic has a fixed battery.

    I don't really care how "thin" the phone is. What is important for me is removable battery so I can just buy a new battery or have one ready if needed. Asking someone who send his or send Blackberry for repair or battery replacement is like taking away his or her work horse for 'x' number of days/weeks (or months?).

    Heck! Even LG, my second preferred manufacturer, went back to a removable battery for the G3 after the G2. What is happening Blackberry?
    09-20-14 12:12 AM
  24. hlg8888's Avatar
    If I would like to have an ultra-thin phone with a non-replaceable battery, why shouldn't I get an I-phone 6 plus? It's got 48 hours of battery-life apparently and had a 7 on a scale of 10 in terms of repairability according to Ifixit.com.

    And that the replaceable battery is on the way out? Just look at Samsung and LG. In fact, I was considering the S4 before taking the Q10.

    This is exactly what went through the minds of the Sony management board. Let's make exactly what the masses want: a thin device with a touchscreen and a non-replaceable battery. Much like.........Apple. Except why would the masses pick me if I am like the big A?

    Sony fell 8.6 percent, the most since November, to 1,940 yen in Tokyo trading, wiping $1.8 billion from its market value. The company yesterday projected a loss of 230 billion yen ($2.1 billion) for the year because of faltering smartphone sales

    Really I might get a Passport if repairability is high but otherwise i'll get an S5 or an IPhone 6 plus if Blackberry wants to fight Sony's fight. Next man up!

    Posted via CB10
    09-20-14 02:42 AM
  25. RodolfoAP's Avatar
    Non removable batteries last longer than removable ones. Btw I've never seen someone with a Z30 complain about battery life at all as it lasts then all day, it'll probably be the same case with the Passport.

    Posted via CB10
    09-20-14 03:22 AM
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