[fraushai]

I really don't understand why Z10 is receiving so much attention. How is it different from any other smartphone in the market nowadays? If anyone wanted a touch screen phone with a useable interface they would have switched to iphone/android three to four years ago.

The reason why we're still with blackberry is because of the physical keyboard. I only use my blackberry to email/text/whatsapp and make calls. I have an android tablet for web browsing and basically any other task.

I was hoping that the Q10 would come with a sizeable screen so that I could read documents and browse the internet comfortably on it. These features are essential to the smartphone experience. Unfortunately, Blackberry seemed to have designed Q10 as a low end device with minor improvements. The device is plagued by poor design.. just look at all the wasted space above the screen in the Q10

I may not upgrade to the Q10 because it really doesn't serve much additional purpose for me. And I don't understand why anyone would choose the Z10 over the iphone 5/ galaxy note, given that the later have better hardware and apps. Blackberry should focus on keyboarded phones

[Taigatrommel]

Oh, I don't know where to start and honestly I don't know why I am even bothering replying in comments like this anymore.

First:
The Q10 is nowhere near a "low end device" as you have stated. Have you even taken a look at the current QWERTY market out there? The Bold 99x0 are, despite their OS, still on top of the line here. We have some Android QWERTY from Motorola and Samsung - which have low end specs. We have Nokia providing the market with feature phones in form of Asha devices. HTC pulled the plug on QWERTY designs, so did Sony. Even Motorola might won't make another "Droid" slider, their next QWERTY is still low specced. So actually the Q10 is not only the by far best QWERTY device out there on the market, but it is pretty competetive in terms of specs too - compared to full-touch devices that is.

Second:
Your statement about Blackberry = QWERTY is plain wrong. It can't be more wrong. Just look around here at the forums and the BB community in general. There have been people who keep using BB full-touch devices since the first Storm, people who like their Torches. Why shouldn't they? Not every BB user needs that physical QWERTY keyboard. Sometimes a full screen is more convenient. It purely depends on your own usage and preferences. There is a reason why BBs competition mostly dropped the QWERTY formfactor: It is becoming more and more of niche product. Now actually BB with the Q10 appears to be the first QWERTY since years (I am not kidding) which even attracts to people who switched from OS5 or OS6 Bolds or the Nokia E-Series to competing full-touch devices back to the QWERTY formfactor. In fact I have read some comments/articles where I really didn't expect the Q10 being so well recieved by the authors.

Besides, based on your posts, I am wondering why Microsoft even bothers with the mobile market. Since everyone and his dog wanting full-touch devices switched to iPhone and Android years ago - why should Microsoft even try to set a food in there? Doesn't make sense at all!

Why look the screen above the display wasted? Do you think they just left it open to fit in the Blackberry logo there? I highly doubt that. I am pretty sure there are hardware components inside which required this area anyways. Also so many people are forgetting that 1:1 ratio: Everytime you even slightly increase on sides meassuring, you'll need to increase the other side too. So when expending the heigth of the display by, lets say 5mm, Blackberry also needs to make it 5mm wider. Now I don't know why RIM decided to go with the 1:1 screen ratio. I really don't have a clue. However I am very sure there are pretty valid reasons behind that. I doubt a guy back at an engineering meeting for the Q10 said earlier on "Guys I have it: Let's just do a 1:1 rationed screen, nobody has that!"


As for the overall disappointments on the new devices:
There always are people not satisfied by a new device. The Z10 should've come with at least a quad-core CPU and 4 gigs of RAM say some. Others want a larger battery, the opposite wants to have a way thinner Z10, thinner than iPhone 5.
Other would like the Z10 to be at least 4.5" in screen size, others say 4.5" is still too small, they want a 5" BB10 at the very least. Then there are people complaining 4.2" is still too large, 4" or slightly below would be much better. There are iPhone users out there disliking the new 4" iPhone 5 because it is not as pocketable, while others really want at least 4.8" for the iPhone 6.
Same with the Q10: Some would've liked it to be the overall size of a Note 1 - and use that space for a large screen and a large display. Others would've liked to just increase the overall size by about 1cm each direction. Then we have people who are glad RIM kept the very pocketable 9900 dimensions and are fine with the screen size. We have people who dislike it for just having no trackpad. There are people who think it is way too thick, then we have people who still would like to see an even higher capacity battery than this 2100mAH one we now have. I for one dislike the Q10 for having a pentile matrix. Now I have to see wether I look at other options or if I can just deal with that POS display and rather enjoy the other benefits this device offers.

You can't satisfy everyone. In the end, somebody who really, really wants and needs a physical QWERTY, will buy the Q10 anyways. There simply is no competition. If you don't need a QWERTY keyboard, you are going to looking at all possible options anyways, being Android, Windows Phone BB10 or iOS.

[fraushai]

Thanks for replying. I wrote this post to hoping to start a discussion not to provoke bad feelings.

You're right, the 9900/Q10 are the best qwerty phones out there, because virtually only blackberry produces qwerty phones. However, if you've used the 9900 as I had, you'll find that the screen is much too small for browing the internet or text documents. And I doubt the Q10 screen will be large enough either. These are, but they didn't happen:
http://cdn.crackberry.com/files/kevi...slider-big.jpg
http://n4bb.com/wp-content/uploads/2...ce-602x483.jpg

That's why I'm frustrated - because blackberry didn't deliver an all-in-one device that we hoped for. You said that microsoft etc are moving towards touch, but you're reluctant to admit that Blackberry is doing the same too. Their strategy of emphasizing the Z10, e.g. making it available sooner, is to marginalize the remaining qwerty fans. I suspect that they will cease offering qwerty phones next year, forcing the remaining brethren to make the switch too. This is unfortunate.

This is completely different from arguing whether the X10 screen should be 4 or 4.5 inch big, because both are probably large enough for web browsing. It's about whether the device is useable for browsing or not. For me, 3 inch screen is really too tiny.

[cjcampbell]

Thanks for replying. I wrote this post to hoping to start a discussion not to provoke bad feelings.

You're right, the 9900/Q10 are the best qwerty phones out there, because virtually only blackberry produces qwerty phones. However, if you've used the 9900 as I had, you'll find that the screen is much too small for browing the internet or text documents. And I doubt the Q10 screen will be large enough either. These are, but they didn't happen:
http://cdn.crackberry.com/files/kevi...slider-big.jpg
http://n4bb.com/wp-content/uploads/2...ce-602x483.jpg

That's why I'm frustrated - because blackberry didn't deliver an all-in-one device that we hoped for. You said that microsoft etc are moving towards touch, but you're reluctant to admit that Blackberry is doing the same too. Their strategy of emphasizing the Z10, e.g. making it available sooner, is to marginalize the remaining qwerty fans. I suspect that they will cease offering qwerty phones next year, forcing the remaining brethren to make the switch too. This is unfortunate.

This is completely different from arguing whether the X10 screen should be 4 or 4.5 inch big, because both are probably large enough for web browsing. It's about whether the device is useable for browsing or not. For me, 3 inch screen is really too tiny.

They are not going to stop with the QWERTY phones. The reason they launched the full touch first, is because that is what the majority of consumers want. Not just BB owners but consumer in general. They are looking to attract new users while offering the BB faithful, a touch experience unlike others, while offering the BB essentials. Now, as for an all in one, like the Torch..... The torch hasn't been available for a quite a while from carriers in Canada. Those who have them, love them, but they really didn't do well. Again, look at the other leading devices out there. Are any of them sliders or qwerty or all in one in any way? No. BB needed to provide a device that people are going to go for, and trends, sales, and pure dollars, have proven that that is the full touch form factor.

[houshinto#IM]

Simply put OP you wanted a Bigger QWERTY keyboard for the Q10. I can understand that. But I think unless they do a Torch style BB10 device, you're not going to be satisfied. And even then you may not be satisfied because it'll probably be thicker then either Z10 or Q10. Or maybe you want a Samsung Galaxy Note II with QWERTY keyboard stuck on the bottom great fantasy but really impractical it would never fit in a pocket and will look awkward even with a side holster.

This has been discussed before. It's not hard to make a great looking mock up render and say it'll have the MAX specs....
What you want is fantasy and more self gratifying then realistic when considering the FULL/REAL financial/design/production factors that are required to produce ANY phone.
You can't have it all.

Also Blackberry will not stop making QWERTY phones. I'm trying to understand your fear, but it's completely unfounded.

[zapblam]

marketing, why not promote the z10 first.

[anon(5506951)]

They are not going to stop with the QWERTY phones. The reason they launched the full touch first, is because that is what the majority of consumers want. Not just BB owners but consumer in general. They are looking to attract new users while offering the BB faithful, a touch experience unlike others, while offering the BB essentials. Now, as for an all in one, like the Torch..... The torch hasn't been available for a quite a while from carriers in Canada. Those who have them, love them, but they really didn't do well. Again, look at the other leading devices out there. Are any of them sliders or qwerty or all in one in any way? No. BB needed to provide a device that people are going to go for, and trends, sales, and pure dollars, have proven that that is the full touch form factor.

I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but despite BlackBerry wanting to attract new customers, it's just NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Apple fans are die-hards and are quite invested in the fully integrated and functional ecosystem. There is not one store in the world that you can't go into, whether it's a true Apple store or an authorized dealer, that doesn't offer accessories for the iPhone and Apple's other devices. To further make the point, my best friend owns an iPhone 4S. Yesterday, she had to do a complete restore of her phone. She ended up restoring by signing in to her iCloud. All apps that she had installed, AND their settings which she'd tweaked to her specifications, were back as she had them. Aside from a few minor tweaks, she was all set. As and Android slider owner and a previous Torch owner, the Android OS can't even boast that much. Sure, you can sign in to Google and be all set, but you still have to re-download the apps you've used. The point of my post is that both iOS and Android have their loyal user bases. Why? The answer is SIMPLICITY. And Android, while not quite there, are catching up to Apple in terms of its ecosystem. So, there's NO WAY that BlackBerry will attract too many customers from those platforms. Therefore, putting this much focus on a full-touch device, and basically making your flagship device an afterthought (as is the opinion of many) is BAD business. As much as I NEED the BB QWERTY, I'm sorry to say that other than BB die-hards themselves, no one else cares.

[Bbnivende]

To restore I just use BB desktop manager on my Mac Book . No one else gives Qwerty any love . There is a natural limit to how big you can build a Qwerty device whether it be the std model or a slider . The phone can't be too tall or too wide. I guess you could have a slider off the side instead of the bottom but I don't think the typing experience would be good . I myself think the Q10 could have been slightly taller and wider but regardless I think that the overall Q10 will be a much better phone than my 9900 and for that I am thankful .

[LazyEvul]

I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but despite BlackBerry wanting to attract new customers, it's just NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Apple fans are die-hards and are quite invested in the fully integrated and functional ecosystem. There is not one store in the world that you can't go into, whether it's a true Apple store or an authorized dealer, that doesn't offer accessories for the iPhone and Apple's other devices. To further make the point, my best friend owns an iPhone 4S. Yesterday, she had to do a complete restore of her phone. She ended up restoring by signing in to her iCloud. All apps that she had installed, AND their settings which she'd tweaked to her specifications, were back as she had them. Aside from a few minor tweaks, she was all set. As and Android slider owner and a previous Torch owner, the Android OS can't even boast that much. Sure, you can sign in to Google and be all set, but you still have to re-download the apps you've used. The point of my post is that both iOS and Android have their loyal user bases. Why? The answer is SIMPLICITY. And Android, while not quite there, are catching up to Apple in terms of its ecosystem. So, there's NO WAY that BlackBerry will attract too many customers from those platforms. Therefore, putting this much focus on a full-touch device, and basically making your flagship device an afterthought (as is the opinion of many) is BAD business. As much as I NEED the BB QWERTY, I'm sorry to say that other than BB die-hards themselves, no one else cares.

BlackBerry has set their sights high because that's how you get things done. If you're going to sit down and think "Well, this just isn't going to happen", of course it's not going to happen - because you haven't bothered to even try. The smartphone market is still extremely young. Half of the world still runs classic feature phones. And a lot of current iOS and Android users were once BlackBerry users, because at one point BlackBerry was at the top of the smartphone world. There is room to capture market share there, not to mention that I know numerous iOS and Android users that are looking for something new, but don't want to deal with the messy (in their opinion) Metro UI of Windows Phone 8. People are not as attached to ecosystems as you think - I know quite literally just one person who has a relentless attachment to his iOS ecosystem. Everyone else I know would be willing to switch given the right incentives, and both Apple and Google are proof of that - they both came into the market at times when someone else was seemingly dominating. BlackBerry 10 has piqued the interest of many users on iOS and Android, I have shown it to quite a few of them who all want to give it a test run once I get my own unit. It's an uphill battle, absolutely, but by far and away the stupidest mistake in business is to assume that it is impossible to beat the competition - especially when you have a genuinely good product on your hands.

[Taigatrommel]

Thanks for replying. I wrote this post to hoping to start a discussion not to provoke bad feelings.

You're right, the 9900/Q10 are the best qwerty phones out there, because virtually only blackberry produces qwerty phones. However, if you've used the 9900 as I had, you'll find that the screen is much too small for browing the internet or text documents. And I doubt the Q10 screen will be large enough either. These are, but they didn't happen:
http://cdn.crackberry.com/files/kevi...slider-big.jpg
http://n4bb.com/wp-content/uploads/2...ce-602x483.jpg

[snip]

This is completely different from arguing whether the X10 screen should be 4 or 4.5 inch big, because both are probably large enough for web browsing. It's about whether the device is useable for browsing or not. For me, 3 inch screen is really too tiny.

I'll start from the end: For you 3 inch is too tiny. For me it is not. Bbnivende also thinks it should be larger, Soutlander likes it. That situation simply shows everyone has different needs and there aren't many phones to attract everyone, without any negative sides. So it is not "completely different from arguing the X10 screen size" or any other feature like thickness or overall dimensions.

Actually I am using a 9900 since April'12 now. I really like it. I might also want to add the fact, this is the smallest screened phone I ever owned and I have to admit the small screen kept me away from buying this thing any sooner. Prior the Bold, I used two phones with 3.7" and 4" displays. While it sure is slightly more convenient viewing rich documents or websites on those screens, I haven't had a single problem up till today with the 2.8" screen of the 9900. A 4" display still doesn't deliver me the size where I'd say, I am very comfortable with viewing those. I got a Playbook lately and I have to say browsing and documents is great, movies are still underwhelming. I guess a ~5" screen would be nice for documents and websites - however that is simply too large for me, especially with a QWERTY keyboard attached.
I still have a 4" phone by the way, supplied by my company. I use both to view PDF files and I never found my Bold to be actually inferior.

The phones you linked are designs made by fans. They have flaws and can't be developed the way they look on the BB10 plattform with RIMs set guidelines. The TK Justice doesn't offer a 1:1 screen ratio. So either it has to get a smaller screen to fit the housing size, or the latter has to be increased, because the screen needs to be much wider. We'll end up with a device which might be too uncomfortable for some hands. It is also too thin: The Q10 is just over 10mm thick, with a large battery. The TK is ~1.5mm thinner, so it might have a smaller battery - which might upset some people, while, again personal preferences, other people might like a thinner device over raw battery power.
That slider has no stats, it looks to thin, especially the keyboard section. We don't know the size. Overall it is a nice dream concept, mind the word dream. I used to have quite some Nokia devices and the community was very eager to create, render and draw their own designs. There were so many great fan designs out there, **** if they would've been available, Nokia would've sold quite some devices. However most of them were just wishes which can't be recreated.

As for a slider again:
Most people say you get the best of both worlds - a larger screen and a QWERTY keyboard. However the way I sometimes see it... you get a still smaller screen compared to full-touch, while you get a smaller, less comfortable keyboard compared to QWERTY. A slider which featured a complete Q10 keyboard would be kind of bulky, especially when offering the same sized battery.

[sibeans]

It seems BB10 is all about being the platform of future mobile computing...be it full touch or qwerty, BlackBerry wants to show that it can flex its QNX muscles on both...I'm just happy to see BB disrupt the mobile market with a fresh OS

[alieannie]

I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but despite BlackBerry wanting to attract new customers, it's just NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Apple fans are die-hards and are quite invested in the fully integrated and functional ecosystem.

Really? I had a regular phone for years, then ipod touches came out and I was carrying one of those and my dumb phone around. Got tired of two devices and upgraded to an android smartphone. I wouldn't go with an iphone because I HATE ITUNES! It's terrible and there was no way I was going to be tied down to that for my phone. Anyway, I went through multiple android phones. I kept thinking the next latest and greatest would win me over. Eventually, I concluded that the os is too unstable. So sick of forced closes, having to charge my phone 2 sometimes 3 times a day, and the call clarity wasn't always there. Ya know, it is a smartPHONE lol. Frustrated, I decided to outright buy a bold 9930. I wished I had done it sooner and a few months later when I went to buy a tablet, I went with a playbook. This was about 6 months ago. The stability, functionality, ease of use, and excellent battery life are exactly what I need.

I won't consider anything else than blackberry. I cannot wait to upgrade to the q10 phone and when my hubby is due for a phone I want to get him a z10. He kept getting my android leftovers. I would consider a slider blackberry 10, but they haven't talked too much about the other 4 models.

If you want a toy, get an android or iphone. If you want to get work done, have a fabulous communication device that is solidly built, reliable, with excellent battery life, get a blackberry. And we'll still be able to play games if we like... I also love the complete integration between my bb bold and my playbook. Blackberry bridge is superb. I love that no matter where I am, I have an internet connection for my tablet via my phone, can take care of work messages, stay in touch with the family, read articles, or go for a little entertainment.

I am sure I'm not the only person out that was just sick of the garbage being offered for phones these days. I even considered just ditching a "smart" phone and going back to a regular phone. I am so glad I didn't. My motto is: once you go blackberry, you never go back!

[cjcampbell]

I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but despite BlackBerry wanting to attract new customers, it's just NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Apple fans are die-hards and are quite invested in the fully integrated and functional ecosystem. There is not one store in the world that you can't go into, whether it's a true Apple store or an authorized dealer, that doesn't offer accessories for the iPhone and Apple's other devices. To further make the point, my best friend owns an iPhone 4S. Yesterday, she had to do a complete restore of her phone. She ended up restoring by signing in to her iCloud. All apps that she had installed, AND their settings which she'd tweaked to her specifications, were back as she had them. Aside from a few minor tweaks, she was all set. As and Android slider owner and a previous Torch owner, the Android OS can't even boast that much. Sure, you can sign in to Google and be all set, but you still have to re-download the apps you've used. The point of my post is that both iOS and Android have their loyal user bases. Why? The answer is SIMPLICITY. And Android, while not quite there, are catching up to Apple in terms of its ecosystem. So, there's NO WAY that BlackBerry will attract too many customers from those platforms. Therefore, putting this much focus on a full-touch device, and basically making your flagship device an afterthought (as is the opinion of many) is BAD business. As much as I NEED the BB QWERTY, I'm sorry to say that other than BB die-hards themselves, no one else cares.

I beg to differ as there is already proof of the change over happening. Somewhere around 50% of the pre orders in Canada have been from non BlackBerry owners. Consumers are fickle.

[jaycee58]

I appreciate that you may want to wait for the Q10 but, having had the Z10 for a whole 30 hours I would politely suggest you try one as you may be pleasantly surprised. The touch keyboard is superb. I had trouble typing accurately on an iPhone, found the Samsung S3 keyboard impossible to type accurately on (and generally didn't like the phone as it felt cheap and tacky) but the Z10's keyboard really is very, very good. I can type quickly with barely a single mistake. I honestly didn't expect it to be that good.

[anon(5506951)]

I beg to differ as there is already proof of the change over happening. Somewhere around 50% of the pre orders in Canada have been from non BlackBerry owners. Consumers are fickle.

That's Canada, I'm referring to those of us here in the US. I'd say the ratio is 75%-25% for those who don't care what BB does.

[m0de25]

Releasing the full screen Z10 was to attract potential customers away from other systems, but also to solidify the app store with games, media, and apps that generally require a full sized screen . BlackBerry had no choice but to get on this bandwagon, whether they liked it or not.... but they should have introduced both models at the same time to cover both camps! Not "will be released in April" nonsense for the Q10.

[cjcampbell]

That's Canada, I'm referring to those of us here in the US. I'd say the ratio is 75%-25% for those who don't care what BB does.

You'd say? Can you tell me where you got that number from? Also, even IF you're right, 25% is a pretty big number of people that care so I really think you just shot your argument all to ****. If BB could interest 25% of the US, well that's one **** of a success.

[sibeans]

i'm a 25 percenter....

[kbz1960]

That's Canada, I'm referring to those of us here in the US. I'd say the ratio is 75%-25% for those who don't care what BB does.

Is that all Americans or the ones you know. If you know all Americans or even 1% I'm impressed.

[anon(5506951)]

Is that all Americans or the ones you know. If you know all Americans or even 1% I'm impressed.

Look, you're talking to someone whose first ever smartphone was a Torch. I'm sorry if I'm not a person who is just blinded by my loyalty to the brand. I'm one who seriously needs the QWERTY keyboard that BB is superior at. But for any fanboy/girl to think that BB will make a serious dent in making people switch from the two established platforms for one that is unproven is kidding themselves. I'm not saying that BB loyalists shouldn't love BB10, they should. I'm just saying the best that BB can hope for at this point is to overtake Windows Phone. If they can accomplish that, they'd be happy. Even Thorsten said as much, as he knows the mobile landscape as it stands today, and not 10-15 years ago, when BB was the it phone. Nowadays most iPhone and Android users will stick with what they know.

[Plazmic Flame]

I was going to throw my $0.02 in on this thread but I see we've already got a whole $1.00

[kbz1960]

Look, you're talking to someone whose first ever smartphone was a Torch. I'm sorry if I'm not a person who is just blinded by my loyalty to the brand. I'm one who seriously needs the QWERTY keyboard that BB is superior at. But for any fanboy/girl to think that BB will make a serious dent in making people switch from the two established platforms for one that is unproven is kidding themselves. I'm not saying that BB loyalists shouldn't love BB10, they should. I'm just saying the best that BB can hope for at this point is to overtake Windows Phone. If they can accomplish that, they'd be happy. Even Thorsten said as much, as he knows the mobile landscape as it stands today, and not 10-15 years ago, when BB was the it phone. Nowadays most iPhone and Android users will stick with what they know.

Hey that's cool. But there is no way you know 75% percent of all Americans (USA) doesn't care is just wrong. So what are iOS and Android users going to do when it changes enough they no longer know it? It will happen.

[cjcampbell]

Look, you're talking to someone whose first ever smartphone was a Torch. I'm sorry if I'm not a person who is just blinded by my loyalty to the brand. I'm one who seriously needs the QWERTY keyboard that BB is superior at. But for any fanboy/girl to think that BB will make a serious dent in making people switch from the two established platforms for one that is unproven is kidding themselves. I'm not saying that BB loyalists shouldn't love BB10, they should. I'm just saying the best that BB can hope for at this point is to overtake Windows Phone. If they can accomplish that, they'd be happy. Even Thorsten said as much, as he knows the mobile landscape as it stands today, and not 10-15 years ago, when BB was the it phone. Nowadays most iPhone and Android users will stick with what they know.

I can appreciate where you're coming from but I have a couple of points to make. Windows is trying to overtake BB, not the other way around; Serious dent, no, but a dent none the less. Maybe you got the impression that I thought BB would be in the number 1 spot in under 2 years... well no. I'm not delusional. The point I make, and it goes back to the original post, is that launching the Z10 first, was a good move as it will attract others because they can see how it would compare to their current devices. Had the Q10 launched first, they wouldn't even give BB a second look. To them, it would be business as usual.

[spyeagle]

Look, you're talking to someone whose first ever smartphone was a Torch. I'm sorry if I'm not a person who is just blinded by my loyalty to the brand. I'm one who seriously needs the QWERTY keyboard that BB is superior at. But for any fanboy/girl to think that BB will make a serious dent in making people switch from the two established platforms for one that is unproven is kidding themselves. I'm not saying that BB loyalists shouldn't love BB10, they should. I'm just saying the best that BB can hope for at this point is to overtake Windows Phone. If they can accomplish that, they'd be happy. Even Thorsten said as much, as he knows the mobile landscape as it stands today, and not 10-15 years ago, when BB was the it phone. Nowadays most iPhone and Android users will stick with what they know.

This kind of attitude is so close minded. So when iPhone came out, they didn't stand a chance cause most smart phone users where using Blackberry? Or even still when Android came out, they definitely did not stand a chance cause iPhone and Blackberry had the market?? If people stuck with what they know, then everyone would still be using Blackberry's. People change cause they want change. Not the same thing released year after year (Blackberry's big mistake, and now being repeated by Apple) I guess by your great foresight on consumer trends, anyone or any business coming out with something new should just give up cause someone else already had something similar? Jeez, with that mind set we would only have one Burger joint, cause after all, billions and billions served. Or forget choice with phone companies, we were all with one monopolized phone company at one point in history, why should we need anything different? Forget choice with potato chips, most people prefer Plain, so lets just stop there.

It is innovators that drive the future, it is competition that keeps them innovating. Could you imagine a would with only one choice? Just because the majority preferred it? Jeez, We used to have Atari, Commodore and Tandy computers, guess we should have just stopped there as they OWNED the market share, and their ecosystems, man, after paying $400 for a tape drive, I definitely didn't want to switch, Then IBM comes along with their PC, jeez, Apple should never have stuck their noses in, everyone had PC, why should Apple even try. Gee... See the pattern here?

Yes, Blackberry may have blind fanboy/girls, but so does everything else. **** these forums are proof enough. Look how many iPhone and Android Fanatics have come to another fan site just to tell us users of a different phone that our choice is going to be a failure, cause after all, they can see the future as there is an app for that.

Just my 2 cents.

[Skeevecr]

Even Thorsten said as much, as he knows the mobile landscape as it stands today, and not 10-15 years ago, when BB was the it phone. Nowadays most iPhone and Android users will stick with what they know.

If you are going to use a variation of the bb looks like it is from the 90s comments then perhaps you should be posting on engadget or similar, but as far as the latter point, people who tend to change their phones regularly also tend to get bored with the ones they have so there are plenty of people who have moved between iphone and android or jumped around android manufacturers, so bb10 offering something a bit different gives them a chance to catch onto some of those sales along with sales from people that had moved away because they wanted things from their phone that their blackberry could not offer at the time and the z10 now does.

Logically speaking, at the start of bb10 rim are going to be expecting the bulk of their sales from people upgrading from bb7 or older devices, but they are going to be expecting them from other platforms and dumb phones too.