1. mustamarja's Avatar
    Have now spent a couple of days with the Q10, my first BlackBerry device. This phone has some great aspects to it, but I still find myself feeling rather indifferent about it.

    The Harmattan/Sailfish-esque user interface is pretty, just as the device itself. The predictive text input is great, supporting up to three languages at once and all. There's physical QWERTY, which by now is fairly unique in a smartphone. The BB10 platform offering itself seems solid and well designed, although I suppose a few bugs would remain at this early stage.

    But the supposed BlackBerry focus on productivity and security, I'm just not seeing it. Is BB10 supposed to be better than the advertising company phone OS? Is this OS designed to save me time, let me get on with things, let me control my device and my data, stay in charge?

    Upon first trying to start up the device, forced activation or something, with an Internet connection absolutely required. I paid a lot of money for it, is it my phone or not, to use as I please? Extremely lengthy TOS thrown at my face. The privacy terms and such are there, but no info is given about the privacy consequences of each app and system service. And where is the reputedly superior permission management capability? Does not seem to apply to builtin apps, or Android apps. Does it even apply to all native third party apps?

    I'm just not seeing enough advantages in here at this point. What is supposed to be the selling point of BlackBerry phones? An inconsistent, unsatisfactory experience I can also get from one of the leading players, for a cheaper price, and with all the apps. No wonder these things are not selling.

    If BBRY's business model is to make money by selling phones, I'd suggest BBRY focus on making phones for the user. Optimizing the experience for the user. Not for the needs of any department within BBRY, not even according to the desires of major app vendors, but looking at it from the point of view of the user.

    Make every single detail of the out-of-the-box experience a delight for the user, and significant word-of-mouth marketing will inevitably come, and the sales will come, and then the apps will come.
    Donvald likes this.
    09-04-13 12:04 PM
  2. DINGSTER1's Avatar
    This is headed for a lock.....
    09-04-13 12:05 PM
  3. lui22's Avatar
    Actually the inistal setup isn't that much different from iOS the only difference is that apple doesn't want you to read and blindly accept the TOS unlike blackberry who put it in your face. And yeah the UI isn't as dynamic as one would like but neither is the HTC One's nor iOS. One is too 2007 and the other is overly complicated.

    I'm a guy Dev. Deal with it.
    beamolite and tlegend2012 like this.
    09-04-13 12:15 PM
  4. mustamarja's Avatar
    No, the setup is not that different from Android either, but shouldn't the underdog try to differentiate, to stand out in a positive way?

    And don't get me wrong, I like the UI design. Not as intuitive as the Nokia N9, but still quick to learn. And can multitask properly, as with Android.
    09-04-13 12:30 PM
  5. Warlack's Avatar
    It is just like dating... Everything seems pretty much the same until you get to know each other and spend some quality time together. There will be any moments where you turn your heads and have all what if thoughts on your head.... You might try one or the other because you are not exclusive as of yet...

    As time goes on you notice that there is more underneath the surface, lacking in all the others that makes you keep coming back and finally propose and be exclusive.
    You won't be looking at others with desire because your found a companion which is trying hard to impress you from time to time and makes life easy for you.

    There is no amazing feature, grabbing your attention in a weak moment and disappointing and annoying you after you are forced to stay together. ...

    8 years and counting... and it is a great experience... With my girlfriend and hopefully BlackBerry

    Posted via CB10
    sirk25, ny1979, DocDRM and 1 others like this.
    09-04-13 01:16 PM
  6. kjjb0204's Avatar
    major differentiating factors? The keyboard!!!!!!!
    09-04-13 01:23 PM
  7. c_legaspi's Avatar
    Agree. Keyboard

    Posted via CB10
    09-04-13 02:13 PM
  8. mstberto's Avatar
    As a huge proponent of electronic communication, the hub (and previously the messaging app way back when) has always been the selling point for me. Hands down better than any iOS or Android experience I've had. Owned a Tour 4ish years ago and left for Android, then iOS. Eventually got bored with both, left for the Q10, and now I can also add multitasking and web browsing to the list. Also, the nifty shortcuts BlackBerry throws in on you that you may not know exist, but when you find them, are freakin' amazing.

    Posted via CB10
    mustamarja likes this.
    09-04-13 02:39 PM
  9. mustamarja's Avatar
    I agree that the keyboard is a differentiating factor for the Q10 and also for BB10. Since Symbian Anna I don't think there's even been a shipping smartphone OS designed to be operated with a keyboard. It's because of the keyboard that I'll be keeping my Q10.

    I guess due to my impression of BBRY as a business/productivity focused company that I was also expecting some differentiation in the customer friendliness and security side of things. They could probably afford to be more "unlike" in that area, given that their business model presumably doesn't depend upon being a major cloud service provider, or a seller of advertising and analytics data.
    09-04-13 03:38 PM
  10. robsteve's Avatar
    I guess due to my impression of BBRY as a business/productivity focused company that I was also expecting some differentiation in the customer friendliness and security side of things. They could probably afford to be more "unlike" in that area, given that their business model presumably doesn't depend upon being a major cloud service provider, or a seller of advertising and analytics data.
    The security of BlackBerry is you can put a password on your phone and not worry about your data being stolen when you loose your phone. You can also trust BlackBerry not to sell or mine your data, and make it very difficult for third party apps to as well. This is assuming you use apps from BlackBerry world which have been vetted by BlackBerry, not side loaded apps. Even off BlackBerry World you may want to wait for a few reviews of a new app in case anything sneaks in.

    In regards to app security, any you install will have to ask you for permission to access private areas. I am not sure if you can edit the permissions of the stock apps like FaceBook and twitter, but you always have the choice to delete them rather than use them. These permissions also apply to Android ports, so even the Android side needs specific permission from you at install, though the Android can ask for more broad permissions because of the points you mention in your last sentence.
    mustamarja likes this.
    09-04-13 04:05 PM
  11. mustamarja's Avatar
    Thanks for that advice, robsteve.

    I'd like to choose what data to trust BlackBerry with, but I don't see BlackBerry providing the necessary information about their apps and services, i.e. what data gets sent off the device when I do such and such. In addition to showing the long TOS, why not also tell me where to look up that information at my leisure, for each app, in plain English?

    The Application Permissions dialog has none of the stock apps. The native apps, or at least some of them (e.g., the CrackBerry one), do appear to let you choose which permissions to grant. Hopefully this applies to all of them, as this would be a differentiating feature. iOS lets you choose individually, AFAIK, but there are very few permissions to choose from.

    On Android, permissions are all or nothing. The same appears to apply to Android ports on BB10. Would like to be able to tell Skype not to access GPS, for instance, but alas, it's all or nothing.
    09-04-13 05:19 PM
  12. mustamarja's Avatar
    I am not sure if you can edit the permissions of the stock apps like FaceBook and twitter, but you always have the choice to delete them rather than use them.
    Yes. Interesting. If you delete Twitter, and then reinstall it from the store, then you get to choose its permissions.
    09-04-13 05:33 PM
  13. eddy_berry's Avatar
    Hey. In your settings, under security and privacy, select Application permissions. It allows you to change your permissions. Also you can go to a specific app and under each permission it briefly tells you what the app may access. The rest is for you to figure out. A Camera app for example would need permission to your files, the camera of course, maybe GPS but it won't need to access your contacts. That's a red flag to me. Native apps can work with some permissions denied but it may not work properly. I had a flashlight app like this. Got gadget box instead but this other little flashlight app wanted permissions to my files, contacts and GPS. I gave it permission only to use the camera (led flash) and that's it. The flashlight app worked perfectly. That's good security. Still needs you to be smart about it though. Also if we are talking security make sure BlackBerry Protect is on. You can use your BBID to track or wipe stolen/lost devices. Also the phone is yours to use as you please after you get through the setup. As for what BlackBerry does with your information. Well it is written somewhere. It should be on their website. But really it is probably safer at BlackBerry then at Google. Just sayin...
    mustamarja likes this.
    09-04-13 05:41 PM
  14. Cranky's Avatar
    Using a Blackberry is like listening to a great audio system. Sometimes you say Oh Yea, others it's just a hmmm.

    But when you listen to a lessor system, you're like OMG. Same with the BB, in a couple weeks try your old phone, you'll see.
    sergey_IL likes this.
    09-04-13 06:00 PM
  15. spork141's Avatar
    Sorry dude. I just can't meet you halfway. You have a keyboard, the hub, BlackBerry flow, and the multitasking, quick actions, AND android runtime to boot and the main point in your issues is the one time setup and app permissions? Its a 2 year investment for most. Who cares about setup!

    I'm not even ypset you do or don't like the phone. Its just stupid to ask what the differentiating facors are and then ignore all the blatent differentiating facotrs, only to point out a long disclaimer and app permissions

    Posted using my Q10 via CB10
    09-04-13 06:19 PM
  16. bobauckland's Avatar
    Keyboard and quick actions are the main positives in BB10. And an interesting approach to multitasking.
    You can't get those three things on the other OSes at the moment.
    It's enough for some of us but obviously not everyone.
    09-04-13 06:23 PM
  17. mustamarja's Avatar
    But really it is probably safer at BlackBerry then at Google. Just sayin...
    There are these rumors that BlackBerry is looking to sell. To whom, I wonder?
    09-05-13 04:16 PM
  18. mustamarja's Avatar
    I'm being harsh on BlackBerry here, for a reason. The "strategic alternative" I'd like to see BB embrace is precisely this - to judge their own products more harshly than their competition is doing.

    The tech guys at BB have done an impressive job in producing BB10 in a short amount of time. If the product management were also clearly committed to providing an experience superior to their competition, then it would be easier to believe BB will still be around when it's time to replace my Q10.

    I'm sold on the Q10 because of the keyboard. I'm "married" to the BB form factor Nokia phones, and used to having a physical keyboard, effective keyboard operation, and multitasking. (No Android runtime there, but Java ME yes, enabling any number of feature phone apps including gems such as Opera Mini.)

    Most people don't seem to value HW keyboards as much, however. And my initial impression was, forced activation, is this just more of the same as from any other manufacturer? But I gather from the comments that that's just a one-off thing, and that there are advantages, such as the messaging hub and quick actions.

    Still, I'd suggest, ruthlessly remove any features that may hinder the user, no matter if they are accepted practice. And if there are unique, useful features that the competition lacks, keep them around, improve them, promote them. Fine-grained permissions seem such a thing, and could be mentioned more often. Perhaps they could even be made to cover all apps - could then say, Android apps are more secure on BB10 than on Android.

    Nokia had imperfections pile up in Symbian, and with them negativity towards the OS. Eventually the OS had become unwieldy, unpopular, and there was an emergency switch to WP. We all know now how that ended. I'd hate to see history repeat itself with BB10. If BB10 can be made a flawless experience to the user, with clear strengths even with touch-only devices, it will be much harder to criticize it for lack of apps.
    09-05-13 04:19 PM
  19. Leon538's Avatar
    I am coming from a Samsung Galaxy S3, I share some of your thoughts. I am still adjusting to the blackberry way. The device by itself it's awesome and love the keyboard. The OS it's a little confusing. I hope the more I use it the more I will like it.
    09-06-13 11:04 AM
  20. CoyoteV8's Avatar
    OP, what phone did you use prior? Give us a frame of reference to compare to. Also, it's substantially different from iOS and android. I don't have enough time to type it all out, but then again that's something you should've researched before buying a new phone also. Setup will be the same song and dance with any phone, I don't see your point there.

    Posted via CB10
    09-06-13 12:39 PM
  21. offyoutoddle's Avatar
    i have to say as a long term blackberry user when I got a q10 I didn't see the blackberry advantage either. It is worth asking though if you have got the official 10.1 OS or if you are trying the 10.2 leaks? I believe 10.2, if it does indeed ever become official in light of the latest events, is rumoured to make people a lot happier. Might be worth your while giving it a try if you are able to?
    09-06-13 02:34 PM
  22. Frehley's Avatar
    i have to say as a long term blackberry user when I got a q10 I didn't see the blackberry advantage either. It is worth asking though if you have got the official 10.1 OS or if you are trying the 10.2 leaks? I believe 10.2, if it does indeed ever become official in light of the latest events, is rumoured to make people a lot happier. Might be worth your while giving it a try if you are able to?
    I too have been a long time BlackBerry user, first was a 7250 and have every new one ever since. I am not seeing the BlackBerry advantage either. I have both the Z10 and Q10. While they are both great devices, along with the BB10, the features that I miss most from BBOS are the data compression, BIS, the ability to customize notifications, etc.

    I hope BB10 has the ability to "mature" and give us users most of the things that brought us to defining a smart phone as a BlackBerry.
    09-06-13 04:53 PM
  23. adamlau's Avatar
    BlackBerry user since 7xxx (when blackberryforums.com was the place to be). I too fail to see the BlackBerry advantage with BB10. And this is with 1443.
    09-07-13 12:58 AM

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