[the_boon]

Anyone not into physical keyboards would see almost zero difference. So surely you understand the comparison.

Nah, it's not even subjective.

Put a KEYone SE and KEY2 SE side by side, and then put any one or two generation apart slabs side by side.

[conite]

Nah, it's not even subjective.

Put a KEYone SE and KEY2 SE side by side, and then put any one or two generation apart slabs side by side.

To a non-pkb fan, they'd just be looking at two Grampa devices that look the same.

[idssteve]

Oh there is. In terms of design and keyboard, huge difference. But the display is exactly the same, and the camera is...worse.

Oh and @idssteve can attest to the massive improvement in weight distribution with the KEY2.

I can crank out nearly twice wpm on LE as on K1. "Much difference"? ?? Lol.
Weight and distribution improved K2 & LE... Especially to increase natural frequency about MOI. nf roughly inverse to mass. K1's mass resulted in nf in lower ranges. About 35-40wpm in my hand. LE's lighter mass increased nf to permit about 65-70wpm before "bouncing" induced character miss.

Probably a bigger handicap of k1 was the slick keys... probably made sense to "flat thumbs" used to slabs. But my thumb NAILS slip right off the slick keys way too easily. Forcing slow to prevent error. For MY technique. K2 & LE satin key finish proves FAR better for nail typing. They're also easier for thumb nail to identify. K1's rounded keys prove less tactile under nail.

Also, k1's little "teet" on D (5) proves almost imperceptible. Demanding visual guidance to index initial "home position". Much easier to locate "home position" by feel on k2 & le. My old highschool type teach routinely barked: "do you have to look at your tongue to talk?!!". Lol.

Slabbers won't get it. Which is why slabbers shouldn't design PKB devices... lol.

[conite]

I can crank out nearly twice wpm on LE as on K1. "Much difference"? ?? Lol.
Weight and distribution improved K2 & LE... Especially to increase natural frequency about MOI. nf roughly inverse to mass. K1's mass resulted in nf in lower ranges. About 35-40wpm in my hand. LE's lighter mass increased nf to permit about 65-70wpm before "bouncing" induced character miss.

Probably a bigger handicap of k1 was the slick keys... probably made sense to "flat thumbs" used to slabs. But my thumb NAILS slip right off the slick keys way too easily. Forcing slow to prevent error. For MY technique. K2 & LE satin key finish proves FAR better for nail typing. They're also easier for thumb nail to identify. K1's rounded keys prove less tactile under nail.

Also, k1's little "teet" on D (5) proves almost imperceptible. Demanding visual guidance to index initial "home position". Much easier to locate "home position" by feel on k2 & le. My old highschool type teach routinely barked: "do you have to look at your tongue to talk?!!". Lol.

Slabbers won't get it. Which is why slabbers shouldn't design PKB devices... lol.

The point that was trying to be made was that there is just as much difference between many slabs for slab folks as there are differences between pkb devices for pkb folks.
@the_boon keeps repeating/implying that all slabs are the same - but they most definitely are not to a huge percentage of folks.

"There will likely be little difference between the 5a and 4a (as with most slabs)."

[idssteve]

The point that was trying to be made was that there is just as much difference between many slabs for slab folks as there are differences between pkb devices for pkb folks.
@the_boon keeps repeating/implying that all slabs are the same - but they most definitely are not to a huge percentage of folks.

"There will likely be little difference between the 5a and 4a (as with most slabs)."

Well, idk slab well enough to authoritatively opine. Slabbers shouldn't design PKB devices and PKB phreeks like me shouldn't design slabs... lol.

[John Albert]

Impacted devices will no longer reliably function. This includes data, phone calls, SMS and 9-1-1 functionality. For a list of impacted devices or additional device information, please visit BlackBerry’s support page.

May I know why the BBOS phones will have issues with phone calls, messages, and even emergency calls?

My old Symbian Nokia is still able to make calls and send/receive messages over Verizon or TMobile network.

[conite]

May I know why the BBOS phones will have issues with phone calls, messages, and even emergency calls?

My old Symbian Nokia is still able to make calls and send/receive messages over Verizon or TMobile network.

I really don't think talk and text will be affected on any BlackBerry-branded device.

[John Albert]

I really don't think talk and text will be affected on any BlackBerry-branded device.

Well, this is the same today statement from BlackBerry Ltd Twitter.
I'm afraid they are going to shut down all servers that might also affect making phone calls.

[conite]

Well, this is the same today statement from BlackBerry Ltd Twitter.
I'm afraid they are going to shut down all servers that might also affect making phone calls.

No calls or texts are routed through any BlackBerry servers.

But not being able to refresh service books on BBOS may eventually cause MMS to fail.

[idssteve]

No calls or texts are routed through any BlackBerry servers.

But not being able to refresh service books on BBOS may eventually cause the MMS to fail.

Any possibilities for deving our own service books?

[conite]

Any possibilities for deving our own service books?

Not to my knowledge.

[the_boon]

The point that was trying to be made was that there is just as much difference between many slabs for slab folks as there are differences between pkb devices for pkb folks.
@the_boon keeps repeating/implying that all slabs are the same - but they most definitely are not to a huge percentage of folks.

"There will likely be little difference between the 5a and 4a (as with most slabs)."

Yes, and I stand by that. Most average consumers are starting to realize (or have already) that all slabs are mostly the same, and offer mostly the same experience.

It's NO question that the KEY2 looks more different to the KEYone than [insert slab name] does from [insert other slab name], at least from the front.

On the back, sure, little camera placement here...little color hue there...

[conite]

Yes, and I stand by that. Most average consumers are starting to realize (or have already) that all slabs are mostly the same, and offer mostly the same experience.

Yet there are probably 50 specific devices that each garner sales in the millions of units per year. If anything, there are MORE distinct models available every year - not less.

[Chuck Finley69]

The Pixel 4a prices will drop once the 5a is out, so you can grab a 4a for cheap as a bridge device until the new OnwardBerry hopefully comes out.

There will likely be little difference between the 5a and 4a (as with most slabs).

I would expect a huge difference from the 4a to 5a with the most obvious 5G ability.

Perhaps I suspect you’re referring to 4a 5G and the 5a which I suppose would be more similar.

[the_boon]

there are MORE d̶i̶s̶t̶i̶n̶c̶t̶ models available every year

Fixed.

Just because there are many (way way too many) slabs to choose from, it does not equate to having many distinct options.

Quantity does not equal variety.

If I walk in to a used car dealership and all they have to offer are subcompact cars (Corolla, Civic, Sentra, etc) it does NOT make for a truly varied selection of vehicles. Even if each model has 10 color options to it.

[conite]

Fixed.

Just because there are many (way way too many) slabs to choose from, it does not equate to having many distinct options.

Quantity does not equal variety.

Samsung alone released 46 distinct smartphone models last year - not including colours and sub-options.

If they were so similar, wouldn't half a dozen cover it?

For instance, out of the hundred or so mainstream options out there, I'd only be happy with a select few. That wouldn't make sense if they were all the same.

[the_boon]

Samsung alone released 46 distinct smartphone models last year - not including colours and sub-options.

If they were so similar, wouldn't half a dozen cover it?

Yes, half a dozen should be more than enough. I don't know why Samsung feels the need to make so many of such similar devices. Especially when they can just keep last year's model discounted too.

Why do you think they'd be perfect in their management anyway? How would you know they don't have overstock of certain models?

[conite]

Yes, half a dozen should be more than enough. I don't know why Samsung feels the need to make so many of such similar devices. Especially when they can just keep last year's model discounted too.

Why do you think they'd be perfect in their management anyway? How would you know they don't have overstock of certain models?

They do it because people WANT the differentiation they provide.

And no, they aren't overstocked - they are masters of just-in-time inventory (both upstream and downstream).

[the_boon]

They do it because people WANT the differentiation they provide.

Their offerings are not "differentiation".

They're at least 90% the same as each other.

It's like saying a T-Shirt shop has a wide variety of clothing. No, they just offer one type of clothing.

Samsung (aside from their Folds/Flips/watches) offer ONE type of mobile device:

The slab.

So varied!

[conite]

Their offerings are not "differentiation".

They're at least 90% the same as each other.

It's like saying a T-Shirt shop has a wide variety of clothing. No, they just offer one type of clothing.

Samsung (aside from their Folds/Flips/watches) offer ONE type of mobile device - The slab.

So varied!

You are looking through your biased lens. I'm telling you that I and most others DO see significant variation. The fact that you don't see it doesn't prove anything.

[the_boon]

You are looking through your biased lens. I'm telling you that I and most others DO significant variation. The fact that you don't see it doesn't prove anything.

But there just isn't. They offer (mostly) the same experience, swiping and tapping around on glass.

You use a $250 slab like you use a $1200 one.

"Variety"

[conite]

But there just isn't. They offer (mostly) the same experience, swiping and tapping around on glass.

You use a $250 slab like you use a $1200 one.

"Variety"

One can look at almost every price point, and then try to find a slab that meets one's needs according to a lengthy list of priorities.

One may lean towards camera, other towards multitasking, others towards gaming. Some may want large screens, medium screens, or small screens. Some may prioritize IP ratings, screen DPI, or special connectivity requirements. The list goes on and on and on.

Then we can talk about construction, aesthetics, and ruggedness.

No one ever tries to tell you that there is no difference between pkb devices, so why do you insist on telling slab users that there is no difference between slabs?

[howarmat]

Their offerings are not "differentiation".

They're at least 90% the same as each other.

It's like saying a T-Shirt shop has a wide variety of clothing. No, they just offer one type of clothing.

Samsung (aside from their Folds/Flips/watches) offer ONE type of mobile device:

The slab.

So varied!

nah, you can get long sleeve, shortsleeve, v neck, sleeveless. All are valid variations of the same cloth. Now you move to a sweatshirt level you are talkin perhaps a folding device or maybe a keyboard device.

[Laura Knotek]

Yes, and I stand by that. Most average consumers are starting to realize (or have already) that all slabs are mostly the same, and offer mostly the same experience.

It's NO question that the KEY2 looks more different to the KEYone than [insert slab name] does from [insert other slab name], at least from the front.

On the back, sure, little camera placement here...little color hue there...

If one uses the stock launcher that is found on an Android device, there is a completely different experience with a Pixel device and a Samsung device.

There are also huge differences between Android and iOS.

[Chuck Finley69]

But there just isn't. They offer (mostly) the same experience, swiping and tapping around on glass.

You use a $250 slab like you use a $1200 one.

"Variety"

Unfortunately, there is a great difference or the OEMs wouldn’t produce so many variants. My VKBs are vastly different upon examination and use. The PKBs can be differentiated by examinations and use in a similar manner. If you applied objectivity, you’d see that average person “sees” no difference in PKBs or the VKBs and the average person also doesn’t care which is how come we’re at this point…