11-18-19 06:07 PM
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  1. bb9900user2018's Avatar
    "Zero" support is obviously facetious. When people were suggesting 3 monkeys and a summer intern, they weren't actually meaning that, so don't be silly.

    Obviously there are going to be a few folks left around, but it no way qualifies as an active development team. BB10 had close to 10,000 developers at its peak.

    And yes, the numbers of active (primary device) BB10 users is in the low 6 figures. BlackBerry would be including every access to its BBID servers when coming out with a figure of over a million. I still have 7 working BB10 devices myself.

    But who cares? Does anyone need big numbers of fellow users to justify their choice of platform? Even if you were the only one left, and you enjoyed it, then great.
    We don't know what commitment there is to BB10 other than what they've told us, and that said, it includes a support team that managed to isolate and fix an issue over the summer fairly quickly. There has to be some development resources available also and I mean by that programmers to fix critical issues, familiar with BB10. It doesn't seem to me that BBLtd is abandoning BB10. So TT has got a point, even if it seems unlikely BBLtd would relaunch BB10; but who knows, as TT says 2-3 years ago BB10 seemed dead, today maybe not.
    11-11-19 10:16 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    We don't know what commitment there is to BB10 other than what they've told us, and that said, it includes a support team that managed to isolate and fix an issue over the summer fairly quickly. There has to be some development resources available also and I mean by that programmers to fix critical issues, familiar with BB10. It doesn't seem to me that BBLtd is abandoning BB10. So TT has got a point, even if it seems unlikely BBLtd would relaunch BB10; but who knows, as TT says 2-3 years ago BB10 seemed dead, today maybe not.
    The issue happened several times - the last of which took over a week to fix.

    We're not talking about abandonment. There is no doubt they had legal obligations to the platform until Dec 31st. After that, all bets are off.
    11-11-19 10:17 PM
  3. joeldf's Avatar
    Blackberry Limited internal staff. Contrary to what some on this thread will tell you, it is official. However, I'm not permitted to mention the name or how I learned it.
    Nobody is saying otherwise. Even Conite noted that some developers were sent notices that BBW will stick around a bit longer. He posted it before so it's not really a big secret.
    11-12-19 12:11 AM
  4. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Blackberry Limited internal staff. Contrary to what some on this thread will tell you, it is official. However, I'm not permitted to mention the name or how I learned it.
    My definition of official is different than yours. I need to see a statement authorized for the public by an officer of the company. (That's the definition of "official").

    I'm not saying you're wrong, but back channel rumors repeated by anonymous third parties are about as far from "official" as I can imagine.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-12-19 03:42 PM
  5. curves2000's Avatar
    I think a few of the CB members are kind of arguing some of the same points.

    BlackBerry announced an extension of support beyond the end of the year, what that support and how long it lasts was never mentioned. If you were going to place a bet on it, it would be limited and for a short period of time.


    I highly doubt that BlackBerry Ltd is supporting BlackBerry OS and BlackBerry 10 for another 3 years but I don't think it was 3 weeks either.

    Regardless of the situation, if this was sports, we are

    1) Making 50 foot puts all day long on the golf course
    2) Scoring two goals to tie to the game with the goalie pulled

    3) Making the game winning TD with a hail Mary pass from half.

    Regardless of how many users BlackBerry has left on BBOS and actively using a BlackBerry 10 device, it isn't some massive installed base but it isn't 10 users either.

    The user base is getting smaller and smaller daily with new phones, devices wearing out, devices being bricked and people not knowing how to do an autoloader and people just moving on. In 6 months time, how many more users will be left?

    Look at the SAF revenue decline and you can estimate the losses in users if you ball park a SAF fee of $3 a user?

    Either way if BlackBerry 10 works for you for the time being, great! It does for me and will hopefully for a while.

    Cheers

    Posted via CB10
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-13-19 04:03 PM
  6. EFats's Avatar
    I don't understand why BlackBerry is extending "support". Not that I'm complaining, but they are not a charity. What's in it for them?
    The only reason has to be profit or else the shareholders will get nasty. And not just any profit, the rate of return needs to be better than dumping money into different project. So where is the money coming from? What is their gameplan here?




    Posted via CB10
    11-13-19 10:19 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    I don't understand why BlackBerry is extending "support". Not that I'm complaining, but they are not a charity. What's in it for them?
    The only reason has to be profit or else the shareholders will get nasty. And not just any profit, the rate of return needs to be better than dumping money into different project. So where is the money coming from? What is their gameplan here?




    Posted via CB10
    They aren't extending support. This is a mis-characterisation of the last press release.

    BB10 is still EOL at the end of this year. BlackBerry only clarified that the back-end services are not being blown-up at midnight on Dec 31st. They will likely keep going until something breaks.
    11-13-19 10:24 PM
  8. EFats's Avatar
    They aren't extending support. This is a mis-characterisation of the last press release.

    BB10 is still EOL at the end of this year. BlackBerry only clarified that the back-end services are not being blown-up at midnight on Dec 31st. They will likely keep going until something breaks.
    I get it, I think we are in agreement here in terms of what "support" means.
    Nevertheless, keeping servers running is not free in terms of electricity, real-estate and support. (I doubt they mean they're literally going to lock 'em up in a room and let them naturally keel over. I'm sure if a hard drive or fan died they'd swap it out).

    Most, if not all, companies playing in the mobile space seem to have no qualms about killing stuff with little to no notice. They never seem to be willing to let things die a natural death.



    Posted via CB10
    11-13-19 10:45 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    I get it, I think we are in agreement here in terms of what "support" means.
    Nevertheless, keeping servers running is not free in terms of electricity, real-estate and support. (I doubt they mean they're literally going to lock 'em up in a room and let them naturally keel over. I'm sure if a hard drive or fan died they'd swap it out).

    Most, if not all, companies playing in the mobile space seem to have no qualms about killing stuff with little to no notice. They never seem to be willing to let things die a natural death.



    Posted via CB10
    Unlike other platforms, BB10 effectively dies without BBID infrastructure (unless we jump through hoops - which most people will never do).

    So, this is probably something they never planned to immediately terminate.
    11-13-19 10:49 PM
  10. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I don't understand why BlackBerry is extending "support". Not that I'm complaining, but they are not a charity. What's in it for them?
    The only reason has to be profit or else the shareholders will get nasty. And not just any profit, the rate of return needs to be better than dumping money into different project. So where is the money coming from? What is their gameplan here?




    Posted via CB10
    There are three possibilities :

    1) They are concerned that ending maintenance of BBID, BlackBerry Protect, etc. might cost them money (reputational damage, good will, fines and judgements, etc.) and have decided it's less expensive to maintain core services until there are fewer active users. (They did state that the number of active users was the reason, after all.)

    2) Someone IS paying for maintaining services, such as a government or large enterprise (probably the former), and services will be maintained until they stop paying. (If true, it's unlikely they would announce it for a number of reasons.)

    3) @TrumpetTiger is correct, and there is some kind of business plan to maintain BB10 for a long time. (I can't imagine such a plan, but it is a possibility.)

    I think there's a 99.99% chance that it's 1 or 2.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    11-14-19 08:21 AM
  11. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    There are three possibilities :

    1) They are concerned that ending maintenance of BBID, BlackBerry Protect, etc. might cost them money (reputational damage, good will, fines and judgements, etc.) and have decided it's less expensive to maintain core services until there are fewer active users. (They did state that the number of active users was the reason, after all.)

    2) Someone IS paying for maintaining services, such as a government or large enterprise (probably the former), and services will be maintained until they stop paying. (If true, it's unlikely they would announce it for a number of reasons.)

    3) @TrumpetTiger is correct, and there is some kind of business plan to maintain BB10 for a long time. (I can't imagine such a plan, but it is a possibility.)

    I think there's a 99.99% chance that it's 1 or 2.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    I wonder if the quirks of it, would be such as, 2020 is promotional and years thereafter, like BBMe, if you want to keep BB10 servers plugged in, as individual user, $60/year paid up front. If there’s seriously a million users.... 100K users only generates the fraction. Wonder if enough BB10 loyalists would pay for things as-is with zero development and minimal support. Knowing they were paying extra. If necessary, charged per device or BBID even.....
    11-14-19 08:45 AM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I wonder if the quirks of it, would be such as, 2020 is promotional and years thereafter, like BBMe, if you want to keep BB10 servers plugged in, as individual user, $60/year paid up front. If there’s seriously a million users.... 100K users only generates the fraction. Wonder if enough BB10 loyalists would pay for things as-is with zero development and minimal support. Knowing they were paying extra. If necessary, charged per device or BBID even.....
    I'd pay $60 a year for nothing more than maintenance of current BBW, BBID and BlackBerry Protect. (no browser updates, no maps, nothing else).

    If I could have one more thing, it would be to update the APIs to make Connect to OneDrive work again. That would give me a complete, secure, enterprise device for MS Exchange-based apps and attachments from my cloud drives.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    11-14-19 08:55 AM
  13. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I'd pay $60 a year for nothing more than maintenance of current BBW, BBID and BlackBerry Protect. (no browser updates, no maps, nothing else).

    If I could have one more thing, it would be to update the APIs to make Connect to OneDrive work again. That would give me a complete, secure, enterprise device for MS Exchange-based apps and attachments from my cloud drives.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    I suspect you’re good without the word update. Changing anything creates an expectation that seems to frighten away executive management of companies in these situations. Even charging without change may create some concern of legal obligation if TOS not worded properly. I always think of XP and why not better monetized but Microsoft does seem to know what it’s doing.
    11-14-19 09:00 AM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I suspect you’re good without the word update. Changing anything creates an expectation that seems to frighten away executive management of companies in these situations. Even charging without change may create some concern of legal obligation if TOS not worded properly. I always think of XP and why not better monetized but Microsoft does seem to know what it’s doing.
    It's difficult to harvest value from obsolete products in a world of complainers and social media. If they charged money, some idiot would expect more than they paid for no matter how well crafted the user agreement!

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    11-14-19 09:04 AM
  15. danfrancisco's Avatar
    I wonder if the quirks of it, would be such as, 2020 is promotional and years thereafter, like BBMe, if you want to keep BB10 servers plugged in, as individual user, $60/year paid up front. If there’s seriously a million users.... 100K users only generates the fraction. Wonder if enough BB10 loyalists would pay for things as-is with zero development and minimal support. Knowing they were paying extra. If necessary, charged per device or BBID even.....
    I would gladly pay $60/yr to keep my BBID working with all my BB10 devices.
    11-14-19 09:12 AM
  16. the_boon's Avatar
    I would gladly pay $60/yr to keep my BBID working with all my BB10 devices.
    Why would it really matter if it didn't work anyway?

    I mess around with my Classic in a way that I'm basically free from those BBID/Protect Servers.

    No ID on the phone, no Protect, no BBW, just everything from Yalp.
    11-14-19 09:35 AM
  17. conite's Avatar
    Why would it really matter if it didn't work anyway?

    I mess around with my Classic in a way that I'm basically free from those BBID/Protect Servers.

    No ID on the phone, no Protect, no BBW, just everything from Yalp.
    That's easy for some of us to consider, but most won't know how, or even know to reach out to ask.
    11-14-19 09:55 AM
  18. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Why would it really matter if it didn't work anyway?

    I mess around with my Classic in a way that I'm basically free from those BBID/Protect Servers.

    No ID on the phone, no Protect, no BBW, just everything from Yalp.
    Yes, that works for individuals who want to run old Android apps on BB10. But for people like me who won't load old APKs and who need the remote wipe capabilities of BlackBerry Protect, as well as BBM, and who want access to their BBW apps if they reload the OS on their device, BBID is essential.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    11-14-19 09:55 AM
  19. app_Developer's Avatar
    There are three possibilities :

    1) They are concerned that ending maintenance of BBID, BlackBerry Protect, etc. might cost them money (reputational damage, good will, fines and judgements, etc.) and have decided it's less expensive to maintain core services until there are fewer active users. (They did state that the number of active users was the reason, after all.)

    2) Someone IS paying for maintaining services, such as a government or large enterprise (probably the former), and services will be maintained until they stop paying. (If true, it's unlikely they would announce it for a number of reasons.)

    3) @TrumpetTiger is correct, and there is some kind of business plan to maintain BB10 for a long time. (I can't imagine such a plan, but it is a possibility.)

    I think there's a 99.99% chance that it's 1 or 2.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    4.) they may have outsourced some or all of the maintenance and have contractual commitments that extend into 2020 (OR they have retention agreements with key personnel for these services that don’t conveniently line up to Dec 31. Similar idea.)
    11-14-19 11:39 AM
  20. the_boon's Avatar
    That's easy for some of us to consider, but most won't know how, or even know to reach out to ask.
    Well yeah if they don't know about CrackBerry they're not gonna guess that such solutions exist. But it's as simple as downloading the Yalp store, entering one's Google Account and voila, access to many many Android apps
    11-14-19 12:14 PM
  21. the_boon's Avatar
    Yes, that works for individuals who want to run old Android apps on BB10. But for people like me who won't load old APKs and who need the remote wipe capabilities of BlackBerry Protect, as well as BBM, and who want access to their BBW apps if they reload the OS on their device, BBID is essential.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    If one's main priority is to ensure that their BB10 hardware won't turn into paperweights, using said hardware without a BBID (therefore without BB Protect) is the best way to ensure that, if BB decides to shut down servers at any given time
    11-14-19 12:17 PM
  22. conite's Avatar
    Well yeah if they don't know about CrackBerry they're not gonna guess that such solutions exist. But it's as simple as downloading the Yalp store, entering one's Google Account and voila, access to many many Android apps
    I was more referring to setting up the device without a BBID.
    11-14-19 12:32 PM
  23. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    If one's main priority is to ensure that their BB10 hardware won't turn into paperweights, using said hardware without a BBID (therefore without BB Protect) is the best way to ensure that, if BB decides to shut down servers at any given time
    I agree. My perspective is that my BB10 phone is either a great enterprise tool (which it is with BBID) or a paperweight. There's nothing in between.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    11-14-19 02:08 PM
  24. the_boon's Avatar
    I was more referring to setting up the device without a BBID.
    What's REALLY annoying about BB10 is that you HAVE to wipe the device in order to remove the BBID from the phone, which of course in the process would wipe countless hours worth of setting up the right apk's, etc.

    On Android, just go into Settings -> Accounts and delete the Google account and the device is free.
    11-14-19 04:54 PM
  25. Zeddepher's Avatar
    I'm seeing plenty of binary viewpoints on this thread. Is reason going out of fashion?

    •<[{ BlackBerry Passport SE }]>•
    11-14-19 06:29 PM
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