[TrumpetTiger]

You know what I mean by clarified. I’m not saying 12/31/2019 changed to 01/01/2020 for arguments or facetious reasons. I’m saying that if BB really intended to support BB10 with any SIGNIFICANT meaningful change to EOL date such as 12/31/2020 for instance, then it would be given.

That would allow Enterprise and other IT administrators specific actionable information to delay BB10 termination or discontinuation within organizations. Without specific dates, what IT administrators would change their original plan from before the announcement.

The clarity of the statement is we’re not unplugging BB10 services on 12/31/2019 but it doesn’t commit BlackBerry to firm continued support beyond extra 30, 60, 90 or 180 days.

The specific number of extra days aren’t really important. It merely suggests that BB isn’t as serious or committed as you think. You’re entitled to your optimism but the BlackBerry I’m familiar with just isn’t altruistic like that now or ever.

Chuck, are you seriously suggesting that saying something is not EOL without a specific date when support is going to end is a valid requirement? If so, when is Google ending its support for Android? How about Apple and iPhones? There are no EOL dates given when there is no EOL planned....which is the case with BB10 back-end services.

As for Enterprise and other IT administrators....speaking as one, I would either plan for BB10 back-end services to continue to be supported for some time to come or get clarification directly through the channels for BBL enterprise support. Those who have done so have received the message that I and BBL are attempting to convey.

You are entitled to your pessimism, but it is not supported by Blackberry Limited's direct statements.

[Chuck Finley69]

Chuck, are you seriously suggesting that saying something is not EOL without a specific date when support is going to end is a valid requirement? If so, when is Google ending its support for Android? How about Apple and iPhones? There are no EOL dates given when there is no EOL planned....which is the case with BB10 back-end services.

As for Enterprise and other IT administrators....speaking as one, I would either plan for BB10 back-end services to continue to be supported for some time to come or get clarification directly through the channels for BBL enterprise support. Those who have done so have received the message that I and BBL are attempting to convey.

You are entitled to your pessimism, but it is not supported by Blackberry Limited's direct statements.

Now we’re getting somewhere. Do you see a way for BB to charge to keep BB10 running as-is without any real improvements? Similar to charging for BBMe for instance?

[Emaderton3]

Chuck, are you seriously suggesting that saying something is not EOL without a specific date when support is going to end is a valid requirement? If so, when is Google ending its support for Android? How about Apple and iPhones? There are no EOL dates given when there is no EOL planned....which is the case with BB10 back-end services.

As for Enterprise and other IT administrators....speaking as one, I would either plan for BB10 back-end services to continue to be supported for some time to come or get clarification directly through the channels for BBL enterprise support. Those who have done so have received the message that I and BBL are attempting to convey.

You are entitled to your pessimism, but it is not supported by Blackberry Limited's direct statements.

When have you been given official EOL notices for any of your electronics? The only ones I can think of our Windows OS.

[TrumpetTiger]

When have you been given official EOL notices for any of your electronics? The only ones I can think of our Windows OS.

Which is precisely my point. Anyone saying Blackberry Limited needs to point out specific EOL dates or their current notices of services being supported are invalid is putting more requirements on BBL than any other mobile company (presumably ones they like and support).

[TrumpetTiger]

Now we’re getting somewhere. Do you see a way for BB to charge to keep BB10 running as-is without any real improvements? Similar to charging for BBMe for instance?

Yes, if they wanted to. Make BBID a subscription-based service for BB10, possibly including BB Protect. Update payment methods for Blackberry World and charge a percentage for apps.

Also, if we remove the "without any real improvements" from your post, devote some resources to updating the BB10 core apps/OS (particularly the browser) and charge a minor premium for that, a la Sailfish. Many BB10 users would pay.

[Chuck Finley69]

Yes, if they wanted to. Make BBID a subscription-based service for BB10, possibly including BB Protect. Update payment methods for Blackberry World and charge a percentage for apps.

Also, if we remove the "without any real improvements" from your post, devote some resources to updating the BB10 core apps/OS (particularly the browser) and charge a minor premium for that, a la Sailfish. Many BB10 users would pay.

I doubt that since I don’t think BBW made economic sense regarding payment transaction costs and support if allowing charging for apps. Free doesn’t require support. That’s why I think of BBW shutting down as same lack of commitment.

The biggest elephant in the room is aging hardware. BlackBerry has never produced any profitable hardware ever. There’s simply no economic ability for BB to undertake mobile hardware of any kind. BB couldn’t afford to build it’s own Key3 with just Android One at this point. It’s just not there from any perspective.

[TrumpetTiger]

I doubt that since I don’t think BBW made economic sense regarding payment transaction costs and support if allowing charging for apps. Free doesn’t require support. That’s why I think of BBW shutting down as same lack of commitment.

The biggest elephant in the room is aging hardware. BlackBerry has never produced any profitable hardware ever. There’s simply no economic ability for BB to undertake mobile hardware of any kind. BB couldn’t afford to build it’s own Key3 with just Android One at this point. It’s just not there from any perspective.

Except BBW is not shutting down....

I would argue the question is less financial resources and more desire. BBL has a ton of money, even now. They are making great strides with Cylance and QNX. Now, to make things profitable they might have to charge for their software or find a way to make hardware at their quality level in a different way than before. But it's certainly doable if they want to do it.

That, to me, is the real question. Two years ago at this point I would have said no, they don't...but now it seems like they may. We'll see.

[Chuck Finley69]

Except BBW is not shutting down....

I would argue the question is less financial resources and more desire. BBL has a ton of money, even now. They are making great strides with Cylance and QNX. Now, to make things profitable they might have to charge for their software or find a way to make hardware at their quality level in a different way than before. But it's certainly doable if they want to do it.

That, to me, is the real question. Two years ago at this point I would have said no, they don't...but now it seems like they may. We'll see.

What money do they have? They paid cash for Cylance and other business faltered and it’s COO just left due in part

[bb10adopter111]

Except BBW is not shutting down....

I haven't seen that announcement. The last I heard, BBW is shutting down this year. Source?

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[conite]

I haven't seen that announcement. The last I heard, BBW is shutting down this year. Source?

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

Some devs claim they received a note saying BlackBerry World will remain in some kind of static mode beyond Dec 31st.

Nothing official for sure though.

[Emaderton3]

I haven't seen that announcement. The last I heard, BBW is shutting down this year. Source?

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

Perhaps TT is referring to the enterprise version.

[Ben xfg]

Perhaps TT is referring to the enterprise version.

No, that bit of information pertained specifically to BlackBerry World.

Posted via CB10

[bb9900user2018]

I'm shocked that they say millions are still using them.

Exactly, prior to BBLtd publishing this information, from these forums I was under the impression that there about 10,000 BBOS and OS10 users remaining and that all associated personnel fired and buildings sold off, evidently that wasn't true so take whatever you read here with a grain of salt. Keep in mind most posters here are anonymous and you have no idea why they're posting what they're posting - and this goes for board owners and moderators.

Posted via CB10

[Emaderton3]

No, that bit of information pertained specifically to BlackBerry World.

Posted via CB10

Oh sorry! Yes it was BBW! My bad.

[Chuck Finley69]

Exactly, prior to BBLtd publishing this information, from these forums I was under the impression that there about 10,000 BBOS and OS10 users remaining and that all associated personnel fired and buildings sold off, evidently that wasn't true so take whatever you read here with a grain of salt. Keep in mind most posters here are anonymous and you have no idea why they're posting what they're posting - and this goes for board owners and moderators.

Posted via CB10

No it’s very true. The building were sold off and the employees let go few years ago. It was part of “righting the ship” if you will, to save the rest of the company. BB is down thousand of employees and that includes adding the almost 1,000 Cylance employees and recent new hires of last couple years.

BB literally fired BBOS and BB10 developers and sold those buildings as part of the mobile exit. It’s all in their public filings as publicly traded company in USA or Canada depending on your preference in researching.

[bb10adopter111]

Some devs claim they received a note saying BlackBerry World will remain in some kind of static mode beyond Dec 31st.

Nothing official for sure though.

Interesting. That would be great, obviously. A static BBW that allowed the continued availability of BB10 apps would allow for OS reinstalls after 12/31 for people who use some of those third party apps.

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I think it's great that BlackBerry is willing to support BB10 users longer....

And bottom line is right now BlackBerry doesn't need any negative rumblings or complaints on social media. Their UEM business has hit some troubled waters and it's going to take a little more time for Cylance to really show some affect on sales and revenues. A year from now they might could better afford a "little" bad press... The cost to keep a few servers running and pay for the bandwidth is almost negligible at this point. And with the documentation they have on hand, couple of interns can figure out most minor issues in a week or two.

At least that's my view on this "new support" for BB10...

New updates, new hardware... there is no sign of that in the statement they released, or in the company that is now BlackBerry. Most all the hardware people are gone now...

[anon(5597702)]

I think it's great that BlackBerry is willing to support BB10 users longer....

And bottom line is right now BlackBerry doesn't need any negative rumblings or complaints on social media. Their UEM business has hit some troubled waters and it's going to take a little more time for Cylance to really show some affect on sales and revenues. A year from now they might could better afford a "little" bad press... The cost to keep a few servers running and pay for the bandwidth is almost negligible at this point. And with the documentation they have on hand, couple of interns can figure out most minor issues in a week or two.

At least that's my view on this "new support" for BB10...

New updates, new hardware... there is no sign of that in the statement they released, or in the company that is now BlackBerry. Most all the hardware people are gone now...

Agreed. It's the "keeping the lights on" model of support.

Posted via CB10

[brookie229]

When have you been given official EOL notices for any of your electronics? The only ones I can think of our Windows OS.

I had an EOL announcement for my Sony e-reader a year or two ago.

[bb10adopter111]

I had an EOL announcement for my Sony e-reader a year or two ago.

Apple does it, too, and so does Android for each version of its OS. Companies that serve Enterprise and Government have to be very clear about their support terms so that those institutions can make plans and budget for replacements.

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[TrumpetTiger]

I haven't seen that announcement. The last I heard, BBW is shutting down this year. Source?

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

Blackberry Limited internal staff. Contrary to what some on this thread will tell you, it is official. However, I'm not permitted to mention the name or how I learned it.

[bb9900user2018]

No it’s very true. The building were sold off and the employees let go few years ago. It was part of “righting the ship” if you will, to save the rest of the company. BB is down thousand of employees and that includes adding the almost 1,000 Cylance employees and recent new hires of last couple years.

BB literally fired BBOS and BB10 developers and sold those buildings as part of the mobile exit. It’s all in their public filings as publicly traded company in USA or Canada depending on your preference in researching.

Chuck, stop being Chuck for a moment ... you're missing the point, it was often repeated here that there was no support for BB10 (at least that's how I understood it), because everyone was fired. However when the BB10 certificate/BBID issue arose during the summer there were people posting here that the issue could not and would not be fixed because, ostensibly, there was no one to fix it. It turned out that a BB10 support group (+ development resources?) did indeed exist, and according to John@BB the group was quite knowledgeable with BB10. The certificate issue was fixed, rather quickly, over a weekend. Here often it was (is?) posted that only about 10,000 BB10 users remained worldwide, but according to BBLtd's last announcement millions of users exist. This board is very help to users seeking technical support, but outside of that its a rumor mill that some posters revel in and spend countless of hours speculating in - most of that information is unreliable as it pertains to BB10.

[Chuck Finley69]

Chuck, stop being Chuck for a moment ... you're missing the point, it was often repeated here that there was no support for BB10 (at least that's how I understood it), because everyone was fired. However when the BB10 certificate/BBID issue arose during the summer there were people posting here that the issue could not and would not be fixed because, ostensibly, there was no one to fix it. It turned out that a BB10 support group (+ development resources?) did indeed exist, and according to John@BB the group was quite knowledgeable with BB10. The certificate issue was fixed, rather quickly, over a weekend. Here often it was (is?) posted that only about 10,000 BB10 users remained worldwide, but according to BBLtd's last announcement millions of users exist. This board is very help to users seeking technical support, but outside of that its a rumor mill that some posters revel in and spend countless of hours speculating in - most of that information is unreliable as it pertains to BB10.

Wasn’t the issue you’re referring to Playbook related?

[Chuck Finley69]

Blackberry Limited internal staff. Contrary to what some on this thread will tell you, it is official. However, I'm not permitted to mention the name or how I learned it.

If official, then why’s it secret? Isn’t that opposite then from official? If they’ve stated ongoing support, why the need for cloak and dagger?

[conite]

Chuck, stop being Chuck for a moment ... you're missing the point, it was often repeated here that there was no support for BB10 (at least that's how I understood it), because everyone was fired. However when the BB10 certificate/BBID issue arose during the summer there were people posting here that the issue could not and would not be fixed because, ostensibly, there was no one to fix it. It turned out that a BB10 support group (+ development resources?) did indeed exist, and according to John@BB the group was quite knowledgeable with BB10. The certificate issue was fixed, rather quickly, over a weekend. Here often it was (is?) posted that only about 10,000 BB10 users remained worldwide, but according to BBLtd's last announcement millions of users exist. This board is very help to users seeking technical support, but outside of that its a rumor mill that some posters revel in and spend countless of hours speculating in - most of that information is unreliable as it pertains to BB10.

"Zero" support is obviously facetious. When people were suggesting 3 monkeys and a summer intern, they weren't actually meaning that, so don't be silly.

Obviously there are going to be a few folks left around, but it no way qualifies as an active development team. BB10 had close to 10,000 developers at its peak.

And yes, the numbers of active (primary device) BB10 users is in the low 6 figures. BlackBerry would be including every access to its BBID servers when coming out with a figure of over a million. I still have 7 working BB10 devices myself.

But who cares? Does anyone need big numbers of fellow users to justify their choice of platform? Even if you were the only one left, and you enjoyed it, then great.