01-23-16 01:40 AM
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  1. KermEd's Avatar
    Do you actually have facts to back up your comments about BlackBerry and their future with BB10? And also are you solid on your projections for market up take on BlackBerry products? Because I for one cannot predict todays customer. I have seen big brands fall and new comers take the market Ericsson, Nokia, BlackBerry, Myspace were all once big.
    Apple was in the same place a few years ago after firing Steve Jobs but was saved when he came back. BlackBerry was once, but you cannot say they will never be back. Maybe BlackBerry will find there 'steve jobs', you never know.

    Posted via CB10
    I think the majority of this was meant to be in response to someone else as my post was why I personally would buy any Android except the Priv. Regarding the future of BlackBerry 10, based on my experiences as a developer working with BlackBerry over the last 5 years, I have seen their take on this process many times before and fallen victim more than once. BlackBerry will not and cannot maintain a full Android OS and a full BlackBerry 10 stack. They do not have the resources and they have already begun (about a year ago) shutting down essential services and teams necessary for future development of BB10. You will see maintenance and basic patching and this change in direction will not be altered unless Android fails.

    This is their current plan for market, regardless of the PR statement made by Chen -> they will not, and do not, and cannot afford long term plans for two OS'es except for bare life support. Like the PlayBook, the hybrid OS will be a very short lived beta project to determine which OS to stand behind. The only value of the Priv in my collection would be for novelty at best as it's likely the only hybrid they can ever afford to make.

    Regarding future success, that wasn't my statement. But expecting a revolution at BlackBerry? Well, let's look at the math. Experience and knowledge aside, of the last 10 companies I've followed with some kind of Secure android concept, 9 have failed and 1 is holding on but not yet profitable. So I can estimate (very roughly in my opinion) there is a ~90 percent chance they will fail on Android. I wouldn't bank on a Steve Jobs revelation.

    Posted to CB via my Passport | Lloyd Summers | FileArchiveHaven
    Last edited by KermEd; 10-04-15 at 03:55 AM.
    10-04-15 03:37 AM
  2. leeiling's Avatar
    Seriously, it is a new BlackBerry, and that's it. I basically buy a flagship BlackBerry every year. And this phone is the only I can see within the next quarter.

    Posted via CB10
    10-04-15 04:10 AM
  3. BlackQtCoder's Avatar
    ARE you in the minority, or has someone's marketing (we've got an app for that--yeah, they better, because they suck otherwise) just convinced people that you MUST have access to a bunch of apps that people (like yourself) have Zero actual need of.

    This is a claim and belief that is perpetuated, and made into a "fact" and projected upon everyone. But we have no way to actually evaluate the NEED among consumers. We know that they WANT it, but people WANT all sorts of things. I'd love some Chocolate right now, but I assure you that I will survive perfectly fine without it.

    I'm sure many people will find some selection of apps that they really like, and perhaps are convenient or pleasant for them to use. Great, but I'm not buying this NEED narrative. It is amazing how people can get along just fine, or find alternate ways of accomplishing what they NEED.

    Don't get me wrong--I like toys and fun stuff and convenience as much as anyone else--I'm just not convinced that having it all on a phone is the only way, and in many cases definitely not the best way to experience those things.

    Take games--I enjoy games. A phone is the WORST place for me to enjoy the types of games I like. A tablet is a little better, and a PC is a lot better (usually). So...a phone is ALWAYS a compromise for certain things. People choose which compromises matter most to them.

    There's nothing wrong with people who DON'T have the "must have apps" mindset, and nothing wrong with people who DO want that. To claim that one side as if it is a law of nature is crazy. Unfortunately, marketing does a great job (if applied well) at creating "need" (really want) in people--that's what people get paid big bucks to convince them of. And it works very, very well.

    People can deny that all they want, but you don't need to advertise actual NEED.

    KAM
    I can't say better

    Posted via CB10
    KAM1138 likes this.
    10-04-15 04:13 AM
  4. eyeb's Avatar
    Curious as to why you wouldn't go with the Priv?

    My Z30 contract is up for renewal in a few months. I was thinking about a Silver Passport but now I'm thinking Priv. I used to have a Torch, and a closed Priv is close in size to the Z30. Passports are also getting on in age, especially compared to the rumoured specs of the Priv.

    If I switch to the Priv, it would be mainly for the Android Apps as 2/3 of what I do on my Z30 is via Android, and I'm increasingly being frustrated by the need to have Google Services and the lag when starting an Android app. That said, I would miss Browsie Browser and a few other BB10-only apps.

    I just hope that Hub, Peak, Flow work on the Priv. Even if only the Hub makes it to the Priv, no BB10 features are available on other Android handsets.

    For me Hub + apps + good hardware specs are what are drawing me to the Priv.



    Posted via CB10
    that is reason i wont do priv.... priv will not have the best hardware....

    if i go priv it is for the keyboard and that alone... so i will stick with passport. priv doesnt have the software things for health like samsungs package, or sensors.

    the hub... if it picks up, will have dozens of android clones so even non bb phones will have it in time...

    but i am more driven by hardware than apps, and currently i like keyboard over rest, but on android phones, i go for camera hardware if keyboard is not an issue and until priv they all had the same... no phy keyboard
    10-04-15 04:59 AM
  5. Gadgetgirl38's Avatar
    It is so unfortunate that uneducated sheep have basically killed BBOS. Such a waste.

    Posted via CB10
    If the Passport is not updated to fix some of the problems such as apps crashing, then iSheep would get my money before Android. I got rid of my S4 due to viruses. I have not heard of anyone on an iPhone complaining of viruses.
    10-04-15 05:20 AM
  6. gvs1341's Avatar
    I'll be very very very very very happy with a Z50 i.e. PRIV sans pkb running BB10.

    But it won't ever happen.

    So I'll get a couple Passports and wait for the Passports & Z30 & Q5 to literally fall apart - and then I'd buy the PRIV (in whichever iteration it'd be available by then).

    Sorry for the dour post...

    BUT

    The profit BlackBerry makes on 2 Passports should be approx same (or more?) than on one PRIV. So I'd still be supporting BlackBerry's hardware division and the 7 guys working there...

     Q5 / Z30
    Last edited by gvs1341; 10-04-15 at 05:52 AM.
    10-04-15 05:40 AM
  7. igor10000's Avatar
    Serious question to people waiting to purchase the PRIV. What is the appeal of the Android OS? This is not directed towards current Android users waiting for a PKB. In fact, I believe that BlackBerry is releasing this phone to appeal to users that are already set on Android, but want a PKB and BlackBerry hardware.

    But for the CURRENT BlackBerry users waiting for the PRIV. What is the appeal of this phone? Taking apps out the equation, what can Android do that is so appealing? Again, take apps out the equation. I understand that part, I want to see if there are other things that Android does that BB10 cannot. I have never used an Android phone, so I'm curious.

    BlackBerry Passport / OS 10.3.2.2639 / SQW100-3 / BBM 2C05E109
    NONE.
    10-04-15 06:23 AM
  8. chalx's Avatar
    I'm one of guys drumming for BBRY Android device for a few years and to tell you the truth, I don't find Android appealing at all. For me BB10 is appealing but it lost a war.
    ayngling and andy957 like this.
    10-04-15 06:42 AM
  9. nosmartphoneyet's Avatar
    It generally seems like the best of both. I want an upgrade from my z10 and, this seems to be it. The Passport was too big for me, despite the great specs. The Classic and Q10 weren't what I was looking for.

    I use a Curve for work and z10 as personal. There are 6 apps that I have side loaded because they are not available - they are a bit slow on start compared but, not enough to make life suck. I have both Amazon and Google Play and, all work fine but, I would like the upgrades.

    If the Priv delivered, and yes - that name is awful and I will just call it a BlackBerry or Smart Slide - I will buy it and get used to a slightly different OS.

    What would **** me off is if they released a strict OS10 version 6 months later !!!!

    Posted via CB10
    10-04-15 06:58 AM
  10. aha's Avatar
    This is all my preference and I am using stock android on my Moto X vs Z10

    Notification tray visibility at all times; I need to see the clock at all times without needing to peek.
    Being able to delete email and archive the latest email straight from the notification tray.
    Being able to change wifi network and bluetooth pairing straight inside the notification tray without having to go into the settings app.
    Being able to silence all sounds until a certain time without using the calendar.
    Brightness slider is 1 step less more accessible than BB10.
    Widgets;Information at a glance and I'm not talking about needing to have apps open to view their active frames.
    The lack of mandatory window management; on android I do not need to keep track of how many apps I have open. BB10 closes apps once it's past 8.
    Multitasking button allows me to switch app to app and not back to the home screen like on BB10 then to the app I want. 1 step less
    Dismiss-able notifications on lockscreen that can be swiped away.
    Lock screen call swipe gesture swipe to the right; missing on BB10
    Camera swipe gesture is faster; Swipe to the left not tap to hold like BB10
    Ability to have a silenced camera without having to set notifications to silent
    Swipe speed on home screen is not limited the way it is on BB10; I can go pretty fast if I wanted to not that I normally do it.
    Nova Launcher; being able to set up a 5x7 grid. Customize gestures on home screen to do actions. Home screen arrangement is just more to my liking and customizable unlike BB10. BB10 feels more like iOS which is limited being stuck with an app drawer open.
    Settings for each app is always visible on android in the form of a ... or in the side menu on the left at the bottom on android; you do not need to know a hidden gesture and swipe down from the top of the screen.
    Material design appeals to me quite a bit; each app has their own colour style. I don't really put a lot of emphasis on animations but the animations on android 5+ are quite pleasant and smooth creating a better user experience with some flow.

    I am sure there are more differences but that's all I can think of right now but will update post later. So no for me, it's not just the apps.
    Interesting view.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2639
    10-04-15 07:10 AM
  11. Bbnivende's Avatar
    For me, I want a phone that has a good app store, good camera and an OS that is not an orphan.

    Posted via CB10
    jakie55 likes this.
    10-04-15 07:11 AM
  12. code2solutions's Avatar
    IMHO - I believe even if Priv is successful, that Chen will dump the handset business anyway so he can focus resources on MDM - and the end goal for that is to sell the company once he has established at least baseline revenue and presence in the MDM space.

    For this reason - in spite of being a loyal BlackBerry user for many years, and even though the Priv is quite appealing - I will be moving to another hardware platform. I am not excited to spend $800 on a Priv, and then have it turn out to be non- supported hardware and/or poor OS support because BlackBerry has bailed out of the device business.

    Via CB10 - Z10-10.3.2.2639/799 - AT&T
    I have the same concerns.

    Posted via CB10
    10-04-15 07:30 AM
  13. Plazmic Flame's Avatar
    Customizations (even more if rooted).
    This would be my first comment about Android.

    Just install Tasker and IFTTT and you'll barely ever touch your phone again. It's really really good.
    Tre Lawrence and Mecca EL like this.
    10-04-15 10:14 AM
  14. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    This would be my first comment about Android.

    Just install Tasker and IFTTT and you'll barely ever touch your phone again. It's really really good.
    Once one uses Tasker, it's hard to go back to not using it. Tasker is GOLD.
    Mecca EL and Plazmic Flame like this.
    10-04-15 10:25 AM
  15. cgk's Avatar
    It is so unfortunate that uneducated sheep have basically killed BBOS. Such a waste.

    Posted via CB10
    And actual users because device churn compared to sales much mean that people who uses it clearly perferred something else.
    10-04-15 10:32 AM
  16. BB_PP's Avatar
    Unsecured, vulnerable and non private!!! Android powered by agencies

    Posted via CB10
    lift and neo158 like this.
    10-04-15 10:36 AM
  17. Ulferini Schusterotti's Avatar
    Customization and better performance in certain situations.

    Posted via CB10
    10-04-15 10:50 AM
  18. jmr1015's Avatar
    The appeal of Android... Excluding apps.

    For me personally without putting a lot of thought in to it: I guess, widgets and deeper customization. Widgets are one thing I really miss about my Nexus. And it is an OS that is constantly evolving. Android receives updates on a regular basis. New features. Security patches. Bug fixes and stability/usability improvement. Plus a new version upgrade like once a year, though support of the newest version usually depends on your device of choice's OEM, unless you load a pure Vanilla version of Android and potentially lose your OEM skin and features.

    Outside of pure software, the other draw of Android, excluding apps, is variety of hardware. You can get an Android device at pretty much any price point, with a huge variety of specs, from screen sizes and resolutions, battery sizes, internal memory sizes, expandable memory support, front and rear camera quality, etc etc etc. Android covers sub-$200 entry level devices to nearly $1000 premium flagships, and everything in between... and as the competition between the Android OEMs has gotten ever more aggressive, the quality of phone you can get for your dollar has increased steadily over the last few years. The new 3rd Gen Moto G is a hell of a phone for $180 brand new, unlocked, and contract-free.
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    10-04-15 10:57 AM
  19. app_Developer's Avatar
    The big advantage of carrying an Android phone is that if someone, anyone, makes something that is smartphone compatible, it will probably work with your phone. No fuss. No workarounds. No wasted time. It mostly just works.


    Sent from my iPhone 6S using Tapatalk
    lift, Plazmic Flame and andy957 like this.
    10-04-15 11:18 AM
  20. Bash_Man's Avatar
    I was recently given an Android phone to trial out for a friend's business since I work in IT (phone is OnePlus One) and I loaded it with Cyanogenmod 12.1s (which is Android Lollipop 5.1.1). I've had it running for about a week and here are my thoughts about it coming from a BB Z30. If they go android, it wont be this phone but more of a main stream phone like Galaxy S6 or LG G4.

    Here are my thoughts so far:
    - Full integration into the eco system. regardless whether its games, apps, etc.. , it all integrates into the google account of the phone. In their case, they use google apps for business for email.

    - No matter what I tried to download as far as apps for Email, nothing could touch BB 10's Hub. I dislike the gmail app functionality and the way it displays emails/messages.

    - integration of a service like true caller is very neat to have. Fact that it shows you who's calling (name and number) if an non address book contact calls you.

    - Stock keyboard of Android wasn't very usable with enough functionality, especially coming from BB10 virtual keyboard. But the nice thing is I was able to trial out some free keyboards and find a good suitable one (SwiftKey). but even after that, it couldn't match BB10's keyboard when it comes to speed typing, flicking and multi-word deletion.

    - Having to close apps. I have to keep reminding my self that an app that isn't up on the screen is not closed. So i have to go to the "Multi-tasking" view and close any open apps. BB10 i never had to worry about that. When the app is minimized and click on the little x, its gone (headless apps not included).

    - Multi-device integration is something I really like. Something like games, you play a game on 1 device and the progress saves to Google Play, which then you can go to another device you're signed in with the same Google account and you can continue to play the game where you left off.

    - Photos Auto backup to Google drive is very handy. Yes, BB has automatic phone upload to a registered Cloud storage (Box, Dropbox or OneDrive), but you have to remember the average consumer doesn't go around registering cloud storage services.

    - Phone and settings backup is VERY handy. replace a phone or wipe to reinstall, settings and apps/games go back on. BB Link never worked properly for this function to be even considered an option when swapping phones or installing a leak, etc..

    - and yes, here's the BIG one. Security. Android cant even touch BB when it comes to security. Even just for personal use. most if not all android phones can be rooted and have a boot-able recovery that can wipe my whole phone even if its password protected. I had to search the internet high and low for a "hack" to lock down the Recovery partition. But even if someone manages to wipe my phone cause they know my phone unlock password, the thing I like about BB10 is the BB ID integration for security. someone wipes the phone by typing in my password 10 times, it'll wipe, but they better know my complicated BB ID password to unbrick it. Android, no such option available without rooting and businesses don't want to root their devices and neither do I as a consumer. Only available option is to Call the service provider and Blacklist the IMEI.

    ----------------------------------------------------

    In my opinion, there are some things BB could learn from platforms like Android should they decide to keep BB10 going after the Priv. BB10 needs more service integration to make it more appealing to the average joe consumer. and of course vice-versa for Android to learn some things that are security related from BB.

    Cheers
    gvs1341, Shadowyugi and herbersh like this.
    10-04-15 11:20 AM
  21. dreamz_gaurav's Avatar
    Apps are important, and even if they are not so important to some, at least the latest version of some important or frequently used apps (like facebook) matters a lot in my opinion.

    Z30 / STA100-2 /10.3.2.2789
    10-04-15 11:28 AM
  22. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Apps is a big part of the equation. You can't arbitrarily remove them.

    Beyond that you have an entire entertainment ecosystem (music, movies, books, etc) that can be accessed from multiple devices

    Then there's the 3rd party peripheral support - watches, cars, speakers, baby monitors, meat thermometers… The list goes on.

    Etc, etc, etc.
    but the foundation for all of that is apps: either by Google themselves or by third-party app vendors that build their apps in such a way that they rely on Google Mobile Services, which are not available on BB10 OOTB.

    So, it really does just come down to apps. Just apps.

    Most of what people like about Android could be done on BlackBerry 10, and possibly even better if the headless and invocation framework was fully leveraged by app developers... including apps that expose THEIR capabilities to OTHER apps by registering their own APIs to be accessed by the invocation framework (that is, the invocation framework of BB10 isn't limited to the native OS functionality, app vendors can integrate their own capabilities to extend the OS... but no app developers = unrealized potential.)

    So, what's great about Android is possible on BlackBerry, but the vendors aren't writing the apps.

    EDIT and I will concede also "widgets", because Active Frames on BB10 aren't exactly analogous to widgets, no matter how BlackBerry is trying to make Android widgets look like BB10 Active Frames for running apps. I think. So maybe that will be one thing BlackBerry does to Android to improve it, based on what I've seen in screenshots etc... that instead of having to go to the "Multitasking" screen, one of the home screens will show a thumbnail of running apps, just a swipe to the right?
    10-04-15 11:44 AM
  23. KAM1138's Avatar
    If we are going to be really, really literal, no one "needs" apps. Heck, no one needs smartphones, cars or air-conditioning. As human beings, we like our conveniences, and all things being equal, we'd rather not be without them.

    Apps are extended conveniences. As with everything else, some people are fine with more, some with less. In the case of apps, it seems the market has decided that more conveniences wins the day.

    One thing seems empirically true with regards to the consumer market: options almost always win the day.

    Android caters to folks who use a lot of apps AND those that don't use a lot of apps.
    IOS caters to folks who use a lot of apps AND those that don't use a lot of apps.

    If I wanted to build a successful OS, I think I'd rather have an OS that caters to both groups. It's a hard sell to get people to give up want or needs.
    Naturally, all of these references of "want and need" are in the context of owning and using a cell phone. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. I'm not trying to compare Apps to food, water, shelter, breathing, etc. That would be nonsense.

    I think you are correct--Apps can be conveniences, and they are ONE choice that people can be provided with--and that's a good thing. However, that is not the ONLY choice, nor does that choice (currently) equate to Bonus benefit. There is a trade off for using one OS vs another, and so buying into ONE argument that "one must have apps or you are missing out" is responding to the marketing that suits the desires of some companies.

    Options win the day: Well, if all things were equal, then I'd agree, but they aren't equal. Today consumers make a choice between what they can get (including but not exclusively apps). Most apparently have bought into the notion that Apps ARE the thing they need. I'm saying that I have doubts about whether this is in fact a logical evaluation, or successful marketing on someone's part. Maybe a combination of both, BUT again--"We've got an App for that" advertising isn't an accident--it was done to convince people of something, and it worked very, very well. So well, that a company (BlackBerry) that has (imho) a superior product is dumping it (or neglecting it) in order to follow someone else's successful marketing campaign, and the technological path THEY chose to create.

    Blackberry once controlled the narrative about Mobile communications--they were the leaders, and now they are the followers.

    The bottom line is that there is NOT just one way to accomplish what you want to do in ones Mobile communication wants and needs, and there is no universal solution that provides ALL the options. They all have different options, and people currently believe that "must have apps" is that solution. However, people were LED to that conclusion--and as such, it is POSSIBLE for them to be shown a different way as well--unfortunately no one seems to be trying.

    So, all this "it isn't 2006" argument is true...right, instead we're all stuck with mindsets created in 2009 or so instead. Apparently that's the end of Mobile computing progress. Apps--that's it.

    KAM
    HabsFan9860 likes this.
    10-04-15 11:52 AM
  24. KAM1138's Avatar
    By your logic, nobody needs the hub, active frames and swiping gestures but everyone here on crackberry goes ape **** about it and refuses to jump ship to the Priv if it lacks those features. People are weird.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    What I'm actually saying is that different systems have different features, and no one offers a complete selection of "options" as has been referenced. Some have more than others, but clearly SOME people value their BB10 experience more than having access to many, many more apps.

    I'm saying that people seem to be of the mindset that "apps are it" and that's just ridiculous in my view. I'm not saying that isn't the popular opinion, I'm saying it is just a different choice, and not the only possibility.

    For my part, the interaction I have with the phone every time I pick it up is much more important than whether I have to use the Browser to do something, rather than have an app for it. Other people might value having an Instagram to be much more important than how they interface with the device. One is not more inherently "right' than the other.

    I'm convinced that the way I interact with the phone is most important. Others have been convinced they need more apps.

    It's not weird--it's just an example of how people respond to what they are told and/or experience.

    KAM
    MO3iusONE and andy957 like this.
    10-04-15 11:58 AM
  25. app_Developer's Avatar
    . Apparently that's the end of Mobile computing progress. Apps--that's it.
    Isn't that like saying progress in computing ended when we started writing software?

    That's all apps are. We get to write software for these devices. Not little pages limited by what the browser can do, but full native programs that make use of the computing and sensor capabilities on these amazing little computers people carry around now.


    Sent from my iPhone 6S using Tapatalk
    10-04-15 12:08 PM
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