[anon(4297019)]

You're working on a false equivalency. It doesn't matter how many apps Apple or Android had in 2007 or 2008 (or even 2009 - 2012). What matters to most rational consumers is what's available when they go to spend their hard-earned money. In 2013 (not 2012), BlackBerry tried asking top-dollar ($600 or $200 + 2-yr contract) for the Z10 at launch. Yet, there's wasn't a compelling reason for users to pick up the device at that price. Users could get more bang for their buck by looking at the competition. There was little incentive for anyone to switch away from Apple or Android - they'd sink $600 to give up a whole bunch of functionality.

Tell me your marketing plan to convince folks to jump on-board the platform under those circumstances.

4 months after launch it was obvious to some of us that BB10 was DOA. Microsoft had big-name apps on stage (Flipboard, Hipstamatic, etc) at their developer conference that year. What did Thor show off at BlackBerry World that year? Peek & Flow. Again. The big names didn't even bother to show (including the ones that made commitments at the Z10 launch). To add insult to injury, the CTO for Shazam was being interviewed on some news outlet and (rightfully) saying it made no business sense for them to support the BB10 platform.

How would you market around that?

And that's just the device side of the house. BES wasn't doing too much better at the time. BES10 was unable to support legacy devices. They lost their first-mover advantage by being late to market with a BES version that could support all platforms.

How would you market around that?

Marketing can only do so much - but it doesn't make the majority of rational consumers braindead.

Call me irrational, braindead but I still like BB10. So sorry that you can't get over it. Apple was bankrupt at one point, that hasn't happened to BlackBerry as yet. Enjoy.


Passport SQW 100-1 OS 10.3.2.2339 Winnipeg,MB

[Tre Lawrence]

You're working on a false equivalency. It doesn't matter how many apps Apple or Android had in 2007 or 2008 (or even 2009 - 2012). What matters to most rational consumers is what's available when they go to spend their hard-earned money. In 2013 (not 2012), BlackBerry tried asking top-dollar ($600 or $200 + 2-yr contract) for the Z10 at launch. Yet, there's wasn't a compelling reason for users to pick up the device at that price. Users could get more bang for their buck by looking at the competition. There was little incentive for anyone to switch away from Apple or Android - they'd sink $600 to give up a whole bunch of functionality.

Tell me your marketing plan to convince folks to jump on-board the platform under those circumstances.

4 months after launch it was obvious to some of us that BB10 was DOA. Microsoft had big-name apps on stage (Flipboard, Hipstamatic, etc) at their developer conference that year. What did Thor show off at BlackBerry World that year? Peek & Flow. Again. The big names didn't even bother to show (including the ones that made commitments at the Z10 launch). To add insult to injury, the CTO for Shazam was being interviewed on some news outlet and (rightfully) saying it made no business sense for them to support the BB10 platform.

How would you market around that?

And that's just the device side of the house. BES wasn't doing too much better at the time. BES10 was unable to support legacy devices. They lost their first-mover advantage by being late to market with a BES version that could support all platforms.

How would you market around that?

Marketing can only do so much - but it doesn't make the majority of rational consumers braindead.

Well said.

Marketing is not the cure-all some think it would be.

The "quality" of a mobile OS means nothing in today's market, as WebOS enthusiasts can tell you. As you note, it's all about the entire platform.

[SunshineStateFlyer]

I remember how often CrackBerry users described everyone else as being close minded, "sheepish" and other kinds of stuff. But when I see the reactions of some users here now, as BlackBerry is going Android, some are just being stubborn.

They'd rather see BlackBerry die on BB10 than trying something new. And that's even before the new phone has been released at all.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

Call me irrational, braindead but I still like BB10. So sorry that you can't get over it. Apple was bankrupt at one point, that hasn't happened to BlackBerry as yet. Enjoy.


Passport SQW 100-1 OS 10.3.2.2339 Winnipeg,MB

There is a difference between liking BB10 and understanding why it's obvious that it failed.

BB10 is by far the best OS around for me, but nonetheless, I wouldn't dwell in delusions thinking that only marketing was an issue.
There simply comes a moment where people have to understand that BlackBerry was too late to the market and that basically no amount of marketing could have changed that.

BlackBerry needed a miracle, not a good marketing campaign.

[bhoqeem]

There's always a way or more to survive without resorting to android. John Chen knows more than he's letting on.

Z10STL100-4/10.3.2.2339 on XL Network

[MarsupilamiX]

There's always a way or more to survive without resorting to android. John Chen knows more than he's letting on.

Z10STL100-4/10.3.2.2339 on XL Network

How many successful mobile operating systems do you see in the market currently?

I count 2. BB10 not included.

[DrBoomBotz]

There's always a way or more to survive without resorting to android. John Chen knows more than he's letting on.

Z10STL100-4/10.3.2.2339 on XL Network

Please describe one.
For bonus points describe two.

[undone]

I remember how often CrackBerry users described everyone else as being close minded, "sheepish" and other kinds of stuff. But when I see the reactions of some users here now, as BlackBerry is going Android, some are just being stubborn.

They'd rather see BlackBerry die on BB10 than trying something new. And that's even before the new phone has been released at all.

Posted via CB10

The illusion that a Android BB handset will save the handset division is equally as foolish. Most likely it will hasten its downfall even faster.

Releasing an Android device in conjunction with partners and putting some of your nifty components in it, but limiting your down side is there best bet. White label branding that isn't listed as BlackBerry, much like how QNX has done things for years. Profits are all that matters.

[islandp]

@ Bla1ze, I know that you have probably finished your review on this. Could you just post your conclusion?

[SunshineStateFlyer]

The illusion that a Android BB handset will save the handset division is equally as foolish. Most likely it will hasten its downfall even faster.

Releasing an Android device in conjunction with partners and putting some of your nifty components in it, but limiting your down side is there best bet. White label branding that isn't listed as BlackBerry, much like how QNX has done things for years. Profits are all that matters.

At least we know for a fact that BB10 has failed, while about the Android Slider it is difficult to make accurate predictions yet. The device has not been launched and we don't know much about it, software wise.

I don't know if Android can save the handset business but I know that BB10 can't.

Posted via CB10

[undone]

At least we know for a fact that BB10 has failed, while about the Android Slider it is difficult to make accurate predictions yet. The device has not been launched and we don't know much about it, software wise.

I don't know if Android can save the handset business but I know that BB10 can't.

Posted via CB10

Can't disagree with BB10 devices not moving/selling. Numbers don't lie...but if you make devices a break even business unit and use it as a gateway for other products (or better use it as a finishing component in your enterprise segments for your end to end security ideas) then you can do 'whatever' for an OS. No OS can save a handset business. It is all about the ecosystem and all that the device works in conjunction with. Apple's iOS proves that point every time. Android on the other hand proves that no OS alone will keep a hardware manufacturer in business, HTC, Nokia and Sony are great examples. Handsets are moved to were PCs are now, thin margins unless your boutique.

[bhoqeem]

At least we know for a fact that BB10 has failed, while about the Android Slider it is difficult to make accurate predictions yet. The device has not been launched and we don't know much about it, software wise.

I don't know if Android can save the handset business but I know that BB10 can't.

Posted via CB10

I am SO GLAD you're not the CEO. I still need my BB10, thank you very much.

[SunshineStateFlyer]

Can't disagree with BB10 devices not moving/selling. Numbers don't lie...but if you make devices a break even business unit and use it as a gateway for other products (or better use it as a finishing component in your enterprise segments for your end to end security ideas) then you can do 'whatever' for an OS. No OS can save a handset business. It is all about the ecosystem and all that the device works in conjunction with. Apple's iOS proves that point every time. Android on the other hand proves that no OS alone will keep a hardware manufacturer in business, HTC, Nokia and Sony are great examples. Handsets are moved to were PCs are now, thin margins unless your boutique.

I agree. BlackBerry, however, will never be able to provide such an ecosystem on BB10, which is certainly one reason why they are launching an Android alternative to BB10 devices now. That doesn't mean they will necessarily give up on their own OS which they, as you have mentioned it, could use within their fully featured enterprise solutions as an endpoint device. More relevance in the consumer market might also give access to new possibilities with BB10, which is a thing I would greatly appreciate.


Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

I am SO GLAD you're not the CEO. I still need my BB10, thank you very much.

What you need, and what BlackBerry needs, are completely different things.

And you seem to live in an alternative reality, in which BB10 sales can sustain BlackBerry.

Hint: They can't, BB10 failed and its time to accept reality.

[DrBoomBotz]

I am SO GLAD you're not the CEO. I still need my BB10, thank you very much.

Is it ok if it doesn't get any knew features and they take the android runtime away?

[Iggy City]

Every thread with a slight mention of Android will be now filled with BlackBerry Loyalists spreading their bias. I mean even the site admins are against you...

When did the community turn so blind?

[bhoqeem]

Is it ok if it doesn't get any knew features and they take the android runtime away?

Sure, and seriously, I don't mind. I'm using my Passport for work and networking. What's available on BBW is more than enough to cater my needs in that department.

[bhoqeem]

What you need, and what BlackBerry needs, are completely different things.

And you seem to live in an alternative reality, in which BB10 sales can sustain BlackBerry.

Hint: They can't, BB10 failed and its time to accept reality.

We'll see. It's not over yet.
RUMORS don't really make a viable reality, you know.

[bhoqeem]

Every thread with a slight mention of Android will be now filled with BlackBerry Loyalists spreading their bias. I mean even the site admins are against you...

When did the community turn so blind?

Dude...CHILL!

[MarsupilamiX]

We'll see. It's not over yet.
RUMORS don't really make a viable reality, you know.

Did you see the sale numbers?
Nothing more needs to be said.

The reality is... BB10 failed.

[Iggy City]

Dude...CHILL!

I apologize, I'm just allergic to your bullcrap.

[DrBoomBotz]

Sure, and seriously, I don't mind. I'm using my Passport for work and networking. What's available on BBW is more than enough to cater my needs in that department.

I'm sure I don't have to tell you that a lot of the apps in BBW are android and would be useless without a runtime.
It sounds like you should be able to get along ok in all the probable futures.

[Alejandro Nova]

There is a difference between liking BB10 and understanding why it's obvious that it failed.

BB10 is by far the best OS around for me, but nonetheless, I wouldn't dwell in delusions thinking that only marketing was an issue.
There simply comes a moment where people have to understand that BlackBerry was too late to the market and that basically no amount of marketing could have changed that.

BlackBerry needed a miracle, not a good marketing campaign.

A good OS is a flexible OS.

If BlackBerry 10 is that good, then it will bend itself to run Android apps better.

Wide vision, from Chile.

[6stringriffs]

There is a difference between liking BB10 and understanding why it's obvious that it failed.

BB10 is by far the best OS around for me, but nonetheless, I wouldn't dwell in delusions thinking that only marketing was an issue.
There simply comes a moment where people have to understand that BlackBerry was too late to the market and that basically no amount of marketing could have changed that.

BlackBerry needed a miracle, not a good marketing campaign.

BOOM! Someone actually made sense today. Thank You!

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

BOOM! Someone actually made sense today. Thank You!

Where is the fun in that?