1. ldudiaz's Avatar
    Ok. So just because you've used a BlackBerry since their black and white screen phones you think you are entitled to ridicule the people who got BB10 just because of the OS?

    As far as "Android is the future" comment goes, I can just LOL at that.

    BB10 as a platform is doing much more than you think it is. You're looking at the wrong place.

    I do agree that BlackBerry is not abandoning anybody! There are many here who just assume that. It's a good strategic decision if they can execute it.

    Posted via CB10
    I don't mean to ridicule anyone and I apologize if anyone sees my comment that way. I was just simply trying to state my opinion the same way everybody does here.

    I bought the Z10, Q10, Z30, Leap and Passport, my daily driver, only because of BB10

    Posted via CB10
    D3C0D3R likes this.
    09-19-15 11:31 AM
  2. evodevo69's Avatar
    Here's the thing I want to point out as food for thought - when BlackBerry 10 was released, there were a noticeable amount of legacy users who were trashing BlackBerry 10 as being so terrible as an upgrade option, that they would rather switch to iOS or Android than BlackBerry 10.

    I used to say - well these people are pretty moronic because if they thought BlackBerry 10 was a huge departure from legacy OS that they'd rather jump ship, iOS and Android were even WORSE if you compare them to legacy software.

    The colors and over aesthetic design of BlackBerry 10 is professional in comparison to apple and Google, which are cartoonish - however, this is not important but just a bonus to me.

    Truth is, BlackBerry 10 was the closest thing to the legacy OS in terms of messaging and productivity - yes, it didn't do things exactly the same as legacy users were used to, but it was a lot closer than any apple or Google device.

    Well, now that BlackBerry has created the BlackBerry experience suite with the HUB, universal search, and basically the best features of BlackBerry 10, I can now see the point of jumping to android instead of BlackBerry 10 if they hate bb10 so much.

    That said, BlackBerry 10 user experience with peek and flow and gestures really is way ahead of the competition but sadly their ecosystem was their Achilles heel.

    Anyway, I think Android done by BlackBerry is going to be superior to BlackBerry 10 if you need the full smartphone experience (apps, camera, etc).

    But if you only need messaging, I still think BlackBerry 10 is the best out there if only for the peek and flow which appears to be the only differentiating factor now from Android.

    Posted via CB10
    RezzaBuh, dejanh and DolemiteDONS like this.
    09-19-15 11:56 AM
  3. Deitzanova's Avatar
    I don't mean to ridicule anyone and I apologize if anyone sees my comment that way. I was just simply trying to state my opinion the same way everybody does here.

    I bought the Z10, Q10, Z30, Leap and Passport, my daily driver, only because of BB10

    Posted via CB10
    Relax. No need to apologise. I did agree with your general sentiment of it being a good strategy for BlackBerry but I realise I could have worded my own reply a little better, the tone might have been a little off.

    Posted via CB10
    ldudiaz likes this.
    09-19-15 12:16 PM
  4. matt4pack's Avatar
    OK.
    But still no explanation why a potential success of an Android device will be beneficial for bb10 users, and how a comparably small and financially not overly strong company like BlackBerry will keep 2 mobile product lines alive.
    Android is cheap to maintain. The chipset drivers already exist and most of the work is done by others. BlackBerry just adds there own touches like the hub which was being created for all android and ios devices anyway. It's no where close to maintaining bb10 where all the drivers have to be created.

    BB10 isn't being abandoned. Not with the certifications and government security clearances it has but they don't have the resources to keep it as a consumer os. Hopefully it does get the qnx hypervision so people who prefer it can continue using it as a consumer os.




    Posted via CB10
    ayngling likes this.
    09-19-15 12:22 PM
  5. BCITMike's Avatar
    TL;DR: 1) by showing the world that BlackBerry is still relevant and will not disappear, they can work to slowly convert people to BB10, 2) BB10 is good enough as is to last awhile without much cost
    ----

    I'll try. BB10 is stable and fairly feature complete for it to live in its current form for awhile, at least for people using it as a COBO device with little use of consumer apps. The android runtime will have to disappear from new versions of the os due to contractual obligations from Google, but that is a cost we have to bear for BlackBerry to continue in the handset business, so it is not a loss (no new handsets would be worse).

    If this secured android is a success, BlackBerry will have re-branded itself as a company that is still relevant. This means more opportunities for partnerships, carrier marketing etc. A stable presence in the market means more people will be comfortable doing business with BlackBerry, as big companies do not like the risk of a supplier that may go out of business.

    Once BlackBerry can loose the image of a dinosaur, they can start developing BB10 again, and promote it as an alternative. Developers can be convinced, or bribed, to develop enterprise and consumer apps for BB10, and they can slowly build a following.
    Not really.

    It depends on Blackberrys track record. If the next dozen exploits affect every other Android vendor but them, they can market the hell out of that and sales will take off (at a premium, to boot).

    If they have the exact same exploits, they'll need to keep harping on BB10 security benefits.

    So if BlackBerry android secured beats mainstream, BB10 will not continue. It really comes down to how well BlackBerry can show up Google on the security front.

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-15 12:29 PM
  6. ayngling's Avatar
    Not really.
    Sorry, what does this refer to? I wrote a big block of text, it is hard to guess which part you are referring to (there are more than one part, so it cannot be all of it).

    I was answering a specific question someone posted, about how BB10 would benefit from BlackBerry successfully selling android devices, from a post by B1aze. I feel your answer just gave me some reasons why it would be good with Android.

    I agree with all your points, apart from it killing off BB10. I really hope it will be much more secure than the competition, but there are so many good reasons to own your own OS and app store that I believe BlackBerry will keep at it, albeit slowly. Making Android as secure and certified as BB10 sounds way too costly when they already have done this for their own OS, and all devices at that threat level will be COBO anyway.

    I believe BlackBerry will sell android handsets for everybody wanting BYOD devices and BB10 for anyone needing ultra-secure and certified COBO.
    09-19-15 01:39 PM
  7. ubizmo's Avatar
    TL;DR: 1) by showing the world that BlackBerry is still relevant and will not disappear, they can work to slowly convert people to BB10,
    You know, this is similar to that I believed when the Android runtime for BB10 was first revealed. It would give them time to convey people to "pure" BB10. It didn't happen, and I don't think it'll happen this time either.

    If BlackBerry Android is successful (I.e., makes them some money) I think it'll be full speed ahead with Android, and BB10 will soon be a memory. That's not my preferred scenario, but that's what recent years have taught me to expect.
    09-19-15 01:55 PM
  8. matt4pack's Avatar
    Why are people saying the runtime has to disappear? That's just pure speculation and doesn't make any sense.

    No way they could remove the runtime and I don't think Google has any say in that as android is open source.

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-15 01:58 PM
  9. jmr1015's Avatar
    This is crazy, so BB will dumb BB10 currently running on 6 devices for android which is in only 1 device that they are hoping to be a hit in the consumer market space......OK
    Yeah, but those 6 different BB10 devices enjoy a 0.10-0.15% market share... and Android has over 80% global market share. The Venice doesn't have to be "a hit in the consumer market," it just has to sell better than those 6 BB10 devices combined. And that is a really low bar.
    09-19-15 02:00 PM
  10. jmr1015's Avatar
    Why are people saying the runtime has to disappear? That's just pure speculation and doesn't make any sense.

    No way they could remove the runtime and I don't think Google has any say in that as android is open source.

    Posted via CB10
    Because Google doesn't allow manufacturers using their version of Android (with support for Google Play Services) to also sell/use a forked version of Android. BB10 with the Android runtime can be considered an Android fork. Especially considering it is tied to the Amazon App Store, which competes directly with the Google Play Store.

    Android is indeed open source. Google Play Services are not.
    09-19-15 02:07 PM
  11. ayngling's Avatar
    You know, this is similar to that I believed when the Android runtime for BB10 was first revealed. It would give them time to convey people to "pure" BB10. It didn't happen, and I don't think it'll happen this time either.

    If BlackBerry Android is successful (I.e., makes them some money) I think it'll be full speed ahead with Android, and BB10 will soon be a memory. That's not my preferred scenario, but that's what recent years have taught me to expect.
    I see what you mean, but I believe that BlackBerry still wants to own their own OS and app store in the long run. Secure android + BES12 can be perfect for all companies wanting BYOD, while BB10 is perfect for anybody needing ultra-secure certified COBO. It is also a branding issue, after all, keeping heads of state and the like on BlackBerry. Plus, they still need to maintain QNX for the IoT play.
    09-19-15 02:28 PM
  12. gnirkatto's Avatar
    Android is cheap to maintain. The chipset drivers already exist and most of the work is done by others. BlackBerry just adds there own touches like the hub which was being created for all android and ios devices anyway. It's no where close to maintaining bb10 where all the drivers have to be created.

    BB10 isn't being abandoned. Not with the certifications and government security clearances it has but they don't have the resources to keep it as a consumer os. Hopefully it does get the qnx hypervision so people who prefer it can continue using it as a consumer os.

    Samsung is not in a very good shape with its phone business, although they sell millins and millions of phones, and although Android is
    allegedly cheap to maintain. Their margins are quite low, and if their sales numbers begin to weaken just a tiny little bit, they will be in trouble.

    Noka & Symbian died, although Symbian was very mature and didn't need a lot of attention (providing the theory of some here is correct that a mature OS doesn't need a lot of attention and therefore is cheap). Meegoo etc. attempts also failed, as they never became profitable, beside an already weakening platform.

    Then Nokia & WP died, although the OS development portion was 'outsourced' to Microsoft, as they didn't sell enough to regain a significant market share and to make enough money.

    Now MS/former Nokia & WP struggle big time, as they too don't sell enough....see above. How long is MS going to continue funding this, just to keep their ecosystem story alive? Didn't they already move lots of development resources to other, more profitable branches?

    Apple has only one OS platform, and earns lots of money, but only because their huge user base is ready to pay their gigantic margins. This user base, that nobody else has, seems to be very faithful, but this can change quickly (see the Nokia & BB etc. examples).

    How many tens of millions of Android phones will BB have to sell each quarter, at very decent margins, in order to make this business profitable, and, in addition to that, to fund BB10 OS AND device development? This would have to be a VERY high number of Android sliders, which is possible (and desirable), but not very likely to happen.

    So either BB is playing an incredibly risky game, that so far no other technology giant succeeded in, or the weaker selling product line will have to die (while dying doesn't mean those phones will stop working instantly, but no more significant upgrades will happen, and the user base will driy out within 2 or 3 years). I do not see an alternative option.

    And after all of that, I hope I'm wrong, and that JC has found the philosophers' stone of how to make such a model work.
    09-19-15 02:29 PM
  13. anon(3993749)'s Avatar
    Samsung is not in a very good shape with its phone business, although they sell millins and millions of phones, and although Android is
    allegedly cheap to maintain. Their margins are quite low, and if their sales numbers begin to weaken just a tiny little bit, they will be in trouble.

    Noka & Symbian died, although Symbian was very mature and didn't need a lot of attention (providing the theory of some here is correct that a mature OS doesn't need a lot of attention and therefore is cheap). Meegoo etc. attempts also failed, as they never became profitable, beside an already weakening platform.

    Then Nokia & WP died, although the OS development portion was 'outsourced' to Microsoft, as they didn't sell enough to regain a significant market share and to make enough money.

    Now MS/former Nokia & WP struggle big time, as they too don't sell enough....see above. How long is MS going to continue funding this, just to keep their ecosystem story alive? Didn't they already move lots of development resources to other, more profitable branches?

    Apple has only one OS platform, and earns lots of money, but only because their huge user base is ready to pay their gigantic margins. This user base, that nobody else has, seems to be very faithful, but this can change quickly (see the Nokia & BB etc. examples).

    How many tens of millions of Android phones will BB have to sell each quarter, at very decent margins, in order to make this business profitable, and, in addition to that, to fund BB10 OS AND device development? This would have to be a VERY high number of Android sliders, which is possible (and desirable), but not very likely to happen.

    So either BB is playing an incredibly risky game, that so far no other technology giant succeeded in, or the weaker selling product line will have to die (while dying doesn't mean those phones will stop working instantly, but no more significant upgrades will happen, and the user base will driy out within 2 or 3 years). I do not see an alternative option.

    And after all of that, I hope I'm wrong, and that JC has found the philosophers' stone of how to make such a model work.
    Samsung makes billions from phones, but then spends most of the money on marketing. That is their choice, they could probably spend less and be more profitable. BlackBerry could make money from the slider by just selling a few million units per quarter. They wouldn't need to spend that much on marketing, since the device is really unique.

    Symbian was mature, but also extremely outdated. MeeGo wasn't even given a chance, they killed it before releasing it to the public. It could have been a good alternative to iOS and Android, but thanks to Elop, we will never know.

    Windows 10 Mobile is looking pretty good and because it shares most of the code with Windows 10, Microsoft can continue to improve it for a relatively low cost. I wouldn't worry about its future too much, it's part of Microsoft's long term strategy.

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-15 03:13 PM
  14. matt4pack's Avatar
    Because Google doesn't allow manufacturers using their version of Android (with support for Google Play Services) to also sell/use a forked version of Android. BB10 with the Android runtime can be considered an Android fork. Especially considering it is tied to the Amazon App Store, which competes directly with the Google Play Store.

    Android is indeed open source. Google Play Services are not.
    I'll disagree on it being a fork. It's just Android without Google services that has the android calls translated to qnx calls.

    Maybe modified but not a fork.
    09-19-15 03:39 PM
  15. 1Criz's Avatar
    @gnirkatto
    MeeGo was intentionally strangled in the crib by Elop (who was fully supported by Nokia board).

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-15 03:40 PM
  16. ayngling's Avatar
    I'll disagree on it being a fork. It's just Android without Google services that has the android calls translated to qnx calls.
    Agreed, but I don't think Google will interpret their rules that way.
    09-19-15 03:41 PM
  17. KemKev's Avatar
    Interesting but the comments that 'BlackBerry is abandoning' their current users isn't really accurate. If you really like BlackBerry 10, chill and let BlackBerry do their Android thing because it just may be the thing that actually pays to keep BlackBerry 10 going. You don't need to buy it, if you hate it that much. But if it succeeds, you'll benefit from it as a BlackBerry 10 user.
    Maybe BUT I wanted a new slider to replace my old (but great) 9810 NOT an Android phone with a Blackberry label on it.
    Loved my 9810 too, back then, but things and times have changed. A BB10 slider is not a viable option; time to move on from that thought.
    09-19-15 04:55 PM
  18. simu31's Avatar
    Well that's 7 minutes 59 seconds of my life I'm never getting back

    Si.
    09-19-15 05:10 PM
  19. FirstBerry101's Avatar
    It isn't pronounced Venus like the planet. But Venice like the city. I couldn't get past that and so couldn't watch the video.

    Posted via CB10
    ayngling, dejanh and TylerXIII like this.
    09-19-15 05:18 PM
  20. lnichols's Avatar
    This time you are buying into Googles ecosystem not BlackBerry trying to build a new one from scratch after dumping a already built bbos ecosystem.

    Posted via CB10
    OK so if I'm switching, why not go iOS? They have the best apps, and app support. Android is like Windows PC and laptop markets, a mess! Android is considered a joke in the regulated market space.

    Posted via Z30
    09-19-15 07:25 PM
  21. lnichols's Avatar
    Really, you don't think they tried all they could? Just because you don't agree with their decisions doesn't mean they "did nothing". They were better informed than we are when they made those decisions, even.

    They tried something, but it didn't work. I for one will keep supporting them for awhile longer, they keep fighting, most organizations would have given up by now.

    I love BB10, much more than I like android or any other platform, but they could not get enough developer momentum to make it popular for professionals' leisure needs. I would rather have a BlackBerry customized productive android than nothing, and all respect to them for the ballsy move to go to android. They know they are painting a big bullseye on their back, and securing android is a monumental task.
    Nope. They made an OS, threw it over the wall in beta form or overpriced and underspec'd hardware, committed to buy way more Z10's than there was demand for even though they sold more Z10 than Passport in first 4 months, advertised it poorly, and in 9 months later killed off dev relations and everything hardware other than some garbage and have been coasting ever since.

    Posted via Z30
    09-19-15 07:29 PM
  22. evodevo69's Avatar
    OK so if I'm switching, why not go iOS? They have the best apps, and app support. Android is like Windows PC and laptop markets, a mess! Android is considered a joke in the regulated market space.

    Posted via Z30
    Well you could switch to iOS and hope that you could buy the BlackBerry suite on it, otherwise I don't see why you see moving from BlackBerry 10 to iOS as being smarter than android with the best features of BlackBerry 10 included...

    Posted via CB10
    ayngling likes this.
    09-19-15 07:33 PM
  23. Davidoff65's Avatar
    If there's one company that can make me use other platforms ( droid, iOS, windows) it's BlackBerry. As long as it has BlackBerry stamped on it, I'm good to go once the price settles down as I buy my phones unlocked and directly from them or partner vendors.
    09-19-15 07:46 PM
  24. acovey's Avatar
    May be I can't always get what I want BUT I know what I want and it's not another Droid phone.
    09-19-15 08:55 PM
  25. acovey's Avatar
    Loved my 9810 too, back then, but things and times have changed. A BB10 slider is not a viable option; time to move on from that thought.
    I remember when I first started reading posts on Crackberry (long before I joined) it was full of Blackberry fans, now it should be called Crackdroid. As for moving on, no I don't think so.
    RyanGermann likes this.
    09-19-15 09:24 PM
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