09-22-15 05:31 PM
43 12
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  1. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Lol... it's a physical keyboard *for a smartphone*.

    I'm sure someone used to working with an IBM POS cash register will chime in that the Venice keyboard is a gimmick because it DOES NOT HAVE THE DOUBLE 00 KEY!

    Posted via CB10
    Not Bond certified. That w00n't fly! :-)

      Leakers' gonna leak... :-)  
    09-20-15 07:07 PM
  2. gum_bee's Avatar
    Z30-STA=Smartphone-Touch-Aristo

    Posted via Z30
    Didn't even know, cool!
    09-20-15 08:04 PM
  3. lnichols's Avatar
    Sorry, the keyboard is a gimmick because it lacks the Delete and Insert key? Alt+backspace is delete, by the way, I use it a lot When you say "insert key" you mean you want to switch from insert mode to overtype mode? Can you do that with other BlackBerry phones? Otherwise this criticism feels more relevant to BlackBerry as a whole than this particular device that we are discussing.



    Right, so they want an all touch device like the Z30? Or do they want the screen smaller and the keyboard permanent like the Q10 (my favorite phone ever)? I am pretty sure BlackBerry designed this phone primarily for the all touch crowd, so they could attract people from iOS or Android that evidently are ok with no keyboard, but still wanted to introduce them to a keyboard for longer emails etc.



    Don't worry, I am not ignorant of European needs (I am a Norwegian living in Sweden) It still annoys me that the right shift button + other keys cannot be used to type , , and , I still need to long-press the keys and click the screen menu to get those.

    However, I am not sure I understand. Alt + WERTASDFZXC gives 1-9, and there is a dedicated button for 0, so how would you need a numbers row? I feel pretty sure the Czech republic does not have other numbers than the rest of us



    I am not sure I follow your reasoning. What I was trying to say was that this phone was built primarily to attract people that are already on all touch phones. Thus, some might feel that adding a covert touch-sensitive keyboard only for long emails (or typing posts like this ) might be a gimmick to differentiate BlackBerry android phones from Sony, LG, Samsung, etc. Personally I think people will discover how great a physical keyboard is when they start using it for longer typing tasks, but I understand that some people disagree.

    How can there be thousands of reasons why the keyboard is a gimmick? Either people will never use the keyboard (and it is a gimmick), or it will be used and appreciated (and it won't be a gimmick). I don't see more than a single reason it can be a gimmick (that people won't use it, but it is there for differentiating in marketing).



    Great, it sounds good that people like the newer version better, the other way around would not be good.



    Sorry, a gimmick is kinda the opposite of a nice feature, so I am not sure I understand you fully. A gimmick implies it it there just because it sounds cool in marketing, but it never really used.

    If a keyboard was a feature a lot of people know they need (like me), putting that feature front and center is the way to go. The Q10 and the Classic does this, and so does the Passport (but the verdict is still out on that keyboard, I never got used to it and went back to my Q10). The problem is that no-one knows if a Classic with Android can sell well... but we do know that all-touch phones with Android can sell (because all Android phones now are all slab phones).

    BlackBerry has chosen to give people what they are already used to (an all-touch device), but opted to provide them with the possibility of opening the keyboard if they want to write longer messages. I think this is brilliant, a nice way to introduce people to the keyboard, but only when it really shines (longer typing, I will probably use the virtual keyboard for short messages).



    Now you are changing the subject, so I'll only say that yes, I agree that the price point will be a potential pitfall. (The rest is a longer discussion, I do not agree with your choice of comparison device.) Personally I hope it will cost exactly the same as a Samsung S6 Edge. No more, no less. It is a flagship device, and should be premium, just not more than an equivalent flagship device.



    I feel that what you mean is that you would like the slider to be a Classic with Android? (I'll ignore the price comment.) I would love for BlackBerry to release an updated Q10 (the perfect formfactor for me) with better specs and camera, I would buy it in a hearbeat. But, I don't think it would sell well, so it would probably be a bad business decision. So, contrary to you I would say a slider like this is a smart move, it has a big potential market.

    Let's hope I am right, because if I am then it may lead to BlackBerry doing exactly what we both want, a QWERTY android device.
    Yet I'm on a Z30 and leaving for a maker that focuses on all touch devices and not an a Franken touch with a completely different OS and a sliding mechanism that will reduce structural rigidity, make the device thicker per the battery capacity, and add potential points of failure that an all touch device like the Z30 will never have.

    Posted via Z30
    09-20-15 08:19 PM
  4. ayngling's Avatar
    Yet I'm on a Z30 and leaving for a maker that focuses on all touch devices and not an a Franken touch with a completely different OS and a sliding mechanism that will reduce structural rigidity, make the device thicker per the battery capacity, and add potential points of failure that an all touch device like the Z30 will never have.

    Posted via Z30
    Well, my post was about the next device from BlackBerry possibly being qwerty, because this device is primarily full touch.

    If you want to leave all of BlackBerry because you do not want a hidden keyboard you never have to use, we will be sad to see you go, but I don't think they could have done much to keep you as a customer.
    wincyUt and astrodan13 like this.
    09-21-15 02:09 AM
  5. Ulferini Schusterotti's Avatar
    So, the initial intention was to introduce new OS on an all-touch phone with the well-proven 16:9 screen aspect ratio. Just features, without gimmicks.

    That was a very good plan. Unfortunately a 'smart' decision maker has came up with an idea like 'an additional physical keyboard shouldn't harm, just can make it better-seller'. The Slider was born, and following it...

    I can't find words to say how big a mistake it was.


    P.S. I like physical keyboards.

    Posted via CB10/BB PP SE.
    I see how much you like them... The keyboard will make the Slider stand out from the masses of touch only Android Smartphones, why don't you get it?!

    And according to the feedback all over this is Blackberrys best decision!!!

    I really hope you will never be in a position as a decision maker, because it's people like you at Samsung, Motorola, HTC who decided back in 2011 that keyboard devices will not sell! And why didn't they sell very good? Because every keyboard device had lower hardware specs than their touch-only counterparts, and this led them thinking it's the keyboard why those devices don't sell well. That's ridiculous and BlackBerry is finally about to correct that!

    Posted via CB10
    dusanvn likes this.
    09-21-15 02:22 AM
  6. jelp2's Avatar
    I like my all touch BB's. I prefer all touch but I am definitely interested in the slider in case I want to try/practice with a keyboard without having to commit 100% to a physical keyboard BB. Another BUT, I would only purchase it with BB10 OS. I really hope they release a BB10 version.
    09-21-15 08:52 AM
  7. wincyUt's Avatar
    So, the initial intention was to introduce new OS on an all-touch phone with the well-proven 16:9 screen aspect ratio. Just features, without gimmicks.

    That was a very good plan. Unfortunately a 'smart' decision maker has came up with an idea like 'an additional physical keyboard shouldn't harm, just can make it better-seller'. The Slider was born, and following it...

    I can't find words to say how big a mistake it was.


    P.S. I like physical keyboards.

    Posted via CB10/BB PP SE.
    Who told you it is a big mistake? Do you have a crystal ball? Care to truly and factually elaborate how an added keyboard will harm the success of the Slider? The slider is an all touch and the physical keyboard is for optional use, hope you understand that right?
    09-21-15 09:08 AM
  8. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    For the "will not buy the Slider" and "pissed at BlackBerry for not releasing an all-touch" crowd, I'll gladly sell you some krazy glue.
    astrodan13 likes this.
    09-21-15 10:09 AM
  9. lnichols's Avatar
    Well, my post was about the next device from BlackBerry possibly being qwerty, because this device is primarily full touch.

    If you want to leave all of BlackBerry because you do not want a hidden keyboard you never have to use, we will be sad to see you go, but I don't think they could have done much to keep you as a customer.
    I don't want the slider because it has an OS that I do not want to use more than a form factor. BlackBerry has basically stalled Bb10 development to focus on implementing an OS that I have zero interest in. If the slider were running Bb10 I would wait to evaluate it with a hands on, but if I'm going to switch to Android, then there are far better companies and hardware and likely pricing out there compared to BlackBerry. If BlackBerry is not going to put effort into BB10 that really can't afford a development hiatus, and I have to switch platforms anyway, then iOS and Android are both on the table. Based on what I see in the regulated space, Android isn't even considered an option, and iOS is option 1 after BlackBerry. So iOS makes the most sense on a platform switch for someone that might integrate into a regulated environment, and they have the best app and developer support. Android has market share, but with an ASP falling to $254 globally, it is a race to bottom in hardware and quality will suffer.

    Posted via Z30
    09-21-15 10:31 AM
  10. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Who told you it is a big mistake? Do you have a crystal ball? Care to truly and factually elaborate how an added keyboard will harm the success of the Slider? The slider is an all touch and the physical keyboard is for optional use, hope you understand that right?
    That kind of people don't realise that outside some diehards on BB, NOBODY was asking for a full touch Blackberry device. And if Blackberry suite is going to be available for download on Play Store, there's no diferentiation factor that would make a person go from samsung to Blackberry...

    But for someone that's been looking in forums and coment sections, there is a group of people that are using Android or Iphone at the moment, but miss the physical keyboard and are considering buying the Venice. (probabily were Blackberry users in the BB's "golden days)

    Another full touch Android, competing in a very saturated market would never reach 2nd place in the Android Authority top trending threads:
    Venice (Slider) is BlackBerry's high-end all touch!-venice-trending.jpg
    09-21-15 10:37 AM
  11. jpoq's Avatar
    I wonder what kind of shortcut customization might be possible using android and the Venice keyboard. If Android is all about flexibility then Venice users will have lot of room to add plenty of commands through the keyboard. Looking forward to the results.
    Besides that, considering the screen height then browsing using the capacitive keyboard might be great!

    Posted via CB10 from Passport
    09-21-15 10:49 AM
  12. wincyUt's Avatar
    That kind of people don't realise that outside some diehards on BB, NOBODY was asking for a full touch Blackberry device. And if Blackberry suite is going to be available for download on Play Store, there's no diferentiation factor that would make a person go from samsung to Blackberry...

    But for someone that's been looking in forums and coment sections, there is a group of people that are using Android or Iphone at the moment, but miss the physical keyboard and are considering buying the Venice. (probabily were Blackberry users in the BB's "golden days)

    Another full touch Android, competing in a very saturated market would never reach 2nd place in the Android Authority top trending threads:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	venice trending.jpg 
Views:	375 
Size:	136.7 KB 
ID:	372379
    Let's be patient and don't rush to count the chicks before the eggs are hatched. Isn't it still a free and open market? How would BlackBerry know what the outcome will be if it doesn't try? Kinda like saying the airline or restaurant industry is saturated and new entrants should not try to enter the airline/restaurant business.
    Blacklatino likes this.
    09-21-15 12:38 PM
  13. evodevo69's Avatar
    There's also an entire generation that's only known all touch and find pkb too cramped.

    I wonder, for this segment, if they just give pkb a try and time to get used to it, whether or not they'd come to find its more enjoyable than a virtual keyboard?

    I have friends who swear by swype and I enjoy it also but it's not as natural as two thumbed typing. Hence why the BlackBerry vkb with its flicking it's still more enjoyable and I'd say better.

    Posted via CB10
    09-21-15 12:54 PM
  14. ayngling's Avatar
    I don't want the slider because it has an OS that I do not want to use more than a form factor. BlackBerry has basically stalled Bb10 development to focus on implementing an OS that I have zero interest in. If the slider were running Bb10 I would wait to evaluate it with a hands on, but if I'm going to switch to Android, then there are far better companies and hardware and likely pricing out there compared to BlackBerry. If BlackBerry is not going to put effort into BB10 that really can't afford a development hiatus, and I have to switch platforms anyway, then iOS and Android are both on the table. Based on what I see in the regulated space, Android isn't even considered an option, and iOS is option 1 after BlackBerry. So iOS makes the most sense on a platform switch for someone that might integrate into a regulated environment, and they have the best app and developer support. Android has market share, but with an ASP falling to $254 globally, it is a race to bottom in hardware and quality will suffer.
    Well, again, my post was about the next device from BlackBerry possibly being qwerty, because this device is primarily full touch. The post was not about the OS. Your post was mainly about it being a slider, only the first point was about the OS.

    Changing subject, personally I do not believe BB10 is going away, I believe BlackBerry will sell Secured Android + BES12 for everyone wanting BYOD, and BB10 for those needing ultra-secure certified COBO (without the android runtime, those phones will not be running leisure apps anyway). They need QNX for the IoT strategy anyway. In the longer run, once people no longer think BlackBerry will go out of business, they will convince/bribe developers to make native apps, and BB10 will be an alternative platform you can buy on their webshop (while carriers push the android version to consumers).

    Think about it this way, owning your own OS and app store is very lucrative and advantageous. They have already put money into getting BB10 to the maturity it has. They will exploit that long term.
    09-22-15 03:17 AM
  15. lnichols's Avatar
    Well, again, my post was about the next device from BlackBerry possibly being qwerty, because this device is primarily full touch. The post was not about the OS. Your post was mainly about it being a slider, only the first point was about the OS.

    Changing subject, personally I do not believe BB10 is going away, I believe BlackBerry will sell Secured Android + BES12 for everyone wanting BYOD, and BB10 for those needing ultra-secure certified COBO (without the android runtime, those phones will not be running leisure apps anyway). They need QNX for the IoT strategy anyway. In the longer run, once people no longer think BlackBerry will go out of business, they will convince/bribe developers to make native apps, and BB10 will be an alternative platform you can buy on their webshop (while carriers push the android version to consumers).

    Think about it this way, owning your own OS and app store is very lucrative and advantageous. They have already put money into getting BB10 to the maturity it has. They will exploit that long term.
    Well based on my experience with BlackBerry this is looking similar to how the PlayBook went down. Silence, a few comments about commitment to the PlayBook, then after they launched Bb10 and knew they sold a BB10 device to everyone with a PlayBook that was going to buy it they say sorry we can't do it and then act like it never existed. Was actually smart because had they announced the PlayBook wouldn't be getting BB10 before the Bb10 launch I likely would have bailed out then. I think they will follow the same PlayBook with the Venice. About 4 months or so after the launch, they will announce no new BB10 devices will be made.

    Here is what I see happening: BlackBerry has gutted the hardware business, including a lot of BB10 development and has dumped TAT, so their really are not many resources left who can work on BB10. They have a secure Android tablet from Secusmart, and I think bought Secusmart to make a secure Android device. They will release the Venice, and will only keep Bb10 around until the customers using BB10 either get the Android through testing (most regulated won't even consider Android), or they switch to iOS/BES or GOOD. As soon as that is done BB10 will be EOL'd and/or mothballed to a future time when the next generation of mobile OS is released. Regardless Bb10 will become even less consumer friendly.

    There was a funny quote from a former President that fits here: "Fool me once shame on you, fool me.... well you won't fool me again!"

    Posted via Z30
    dusanvn likes this.
    09-22-15 09:32 AM
  16. ayngling's Avatar
    Well based on my experience with BlackBerry this is looking similar to how the PlayBook went down.
    Sure, if you want to be only emotional about it, I can see what you mean. What happened with the PlayBook was terrible. (I also had one, and gave three away to my family, promising a new OS would be coming out that would make it better. For awhile they asked me "when?", eventually they stopped and I felt like a jerk.)

    If it would be good for them to ditch BB10 altogether, I could see them doing that. Your argument that "they f*cked us before, so they'll do it again" I don't see the strategy in. I tried to argue WHY it would be good for them to keep BB10, and those reasons are why I think they will.
    dusanvn likes this.
    09-22-15 09:55 AM
  17. lnichols's Avatar
    Sure, if you want to be only emotional about it, I can see what you mean. What happened with the PlayBook was terrible. (I also had one, and gave three away to my family, promising a new OS would be coming out that would make it better. For awhile they asked me "when?", eventually they stopped and I felt like a jerk.)

    If it would be good for them to ditch BB10 altogether, I could see them doing that. Your argument that "they f*cked us before, so they'll do it again" I don't see the strategy in. I tried to argue WHY it would be good for them to keep BB10, and those reasons are why I think they will.
    That's not emotional, that's being realistic. How they handled the PlayBook was a dumb strategy and they didn't think twice about it and it created a fair amount of ill will and some defections. I think they are running a numbers game now and trying to decide when to drop BB10, and I expect it to be handled in a PlayBook like way. There are no BB10 customers that couldn't be ported to a iOS and BES12/GOOD combination and be served the same or better. Android will be a tougher sell. BB10 might reappear down the road when a new OS is needed or what the market changes, obviously under another name. That's what I think will happen. Only time will tell.

    Posted via Z30
    09-22-15 03:35 PM
  18. ayngling's Avatar
    That's not emotional, that's being realistic.
    Well, I disagree, your argument is an emotional one, that because they f*cked us before, they'll do so again. I would agree with you that they could do that IF it would benefit them. My argument is that it will benefit them NOT to ditch BB10, but you only bring up the "they did so before, they'll do it again" point.
    09-22-15 05:31 PM
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