08-15-17 07:27 PM
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  1. Huussi's Avatar
    I don't think nougat is coming but considering the priv should of launched with marshmallow it kinda feels like we were unintentionally shortchanged.
    True, but it was BlackBerry's first shot at android.
    It launched late and would have launched even later if they'd tried to get it out with Android M.
    PHughes likes this.
    08-11-17 03:18 AM
  2. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    You might want to revise point 2. The Priv is fully supported on M. It was upgraded from L a few months after its release.
    Sorry for the confusion. Corrected. Too much multitasking. LOL

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    newcollector likes this.
    08-11-17 12:24 PM
  3. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    My perspective on my Priv is that
    1) It works great and runs all current Android apps.

    2) It's fully supported on Android M, which was upgraded from L. M is still the most popular version of Android in the wild, and will be supported by developers for 3-5 more years.

    3) The most recent release of M (not including patches) is only 4 months old. Although it's not the newest version it is CURRENT, more like Windows 8.1 than Windows XP.

    3) I didn't buy it with the expectation of getting an upgrade to Android O. I don't ever count on version upgrades beyond what a manufacturer (and carrier) will confirm in writing.

    Blackberry's support has been 100% sufficient for the Priv. I got exactly what I expected.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Love you you say "popular" like it's the people's choice to have an outdated software.

    It's more that they are "caged" by the rubish update system (or lack of it), it's NOT a feature like you want it to sound
    08-11-17 04:30 PM
  4. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Love you you say "popular" like it's the people's choice to have an outdated software.

    It's more that they are "caged" by the rubish update system (or lack of it), it's NOT a feature like you want it to sound
    Your definition of "outdated" is based on it not being the newest version. That's like saying my 2012 BMW is "outdated."

    There's a huge different between "not the newest" and "outdated." M is current, widely used, and fully supported by Google on the dev community.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    PHughes, Mirko935 and myloch like this.
    08-11-17 04:47 PM
  5. myloch's Avatar
    Yeah, please stop with latest Android version paranoia.
    Mirko935 and s40638 like this.
    08-12-17 04:36 AM
  6. Huussi's Avatar
    Your definition of "outdated" is based on it not being the newest version. That's like saying my 2012 BMW is "outdated."

    There's a huge different between "not the newest" and "outdated." M is current, widely used, and fully supported by Google on the dev community.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I took your point valid until you started comparing phones to cars.
    Compare cars to cars, phones to phones.
    08-12-17 06:26 AM
  7. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    I took your point valid until you started comparing phones to cars.
    Compare cars to cars, phones to phones.
    These guys never had a point. The fact here is, BlackBerry as a software company is mediocre at supporting software after they take your money, plain and simple. Everything else is an excuse when smaller companies are supporting things better.
    HughJarsse and werkregen like this.
    08-12-17 07:11 AM
  8. myloch's Avatar
    <edit>
    Last edited by myloch; 08-12-17 at 10:22 AM.
    08-12-17 07:43 AM
  9. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I took your point valid until you started comparing phones to cars.
    Compare cars to cars, phones to phones.
    I am happy to apologize for the car analogy. I'm just trying to make the point that, as with cars, TVs, cameras, etc, there is no implied contract that phones will receive newer OS versions.

    Some manufacturers do it for all phones for each OS version (Apple, Google, BlackBerry for BB10, with the exception of one Z10 model). Others do it for some phones and some OS versions. Some don't do it at all. There is no standard, so consumers should not make unreasonable assumptions, based on their desires rather than the facts.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    08-12-17 08:22 AM
  10. valer466's Avatar
    I don't need no nougat on my Priv as I've decided dimming the brightness to minimum and turning off a bunch of things is what get's it to run cool and provide just about 4 hours of SOT with all the daily calls/WhatsApp/YT.

    I've two chargers, one at home and one at work and 9 hours of standby & use scenario gulps 80%.

    So a 9 am - 100% becomes 20% by 5 and then i plug it in again before leaving for home to bring it up to 60 which again becomes like 5% before midnight.

    Doubt Nougat will work wonders on the Priv which is the worst h/w s/w integration I've seen on any Android device when it comes to battery life.

    On the bright side i don't need BB Privacy shade as my screen brightness is the least and I don't need hub as swipe shortcuts and android stock notifications get the job done.

    With medium brightness and location/app sync on the priv sheds battery life like a leaking manhole.

    A 625 processor and maybe a 1080p screen for the Priv 2 would work wonders without having to charge twice a day.
    08-12-17 09:34 AM
  11. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    A 625 processor and maybe a 1080p screen for the Priv 2 would work wonders without having to charge twice a day.
    660, please.
    08-12-17 09:45 AM
  12. newcollector's Avatar
    I am a heavy SOT Priv user. I take my phone off the charger around 7:00 to 7:30 everyday. I recharge whenever my battery gets down to 30%. Sometimes that is around 1pm, other times around 3pm. Whatever the case, the battery life isn't the best, but it lasts me about like my Passport did. So I stay prepared. A couple of chargers at home (one quick, the other the one that came with the phone), one charger at work (my PlayBook charger) and one in each car (2.0 quick). I also have a Battery pack I can carry if out of the office and car.

    I would love to have Nougat. What positive battery effect is conjecture. But think of the split screen on the Priv! Sweet!

    I wasn't promised it nor do I assume I should or will get it. But it sure would be nice if it does come.
    08-12-17 10:04 AM
  13. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    I wasn't promised it nor do I assume I should or will get it. But it sure would be nice if it does come.
    Well if it doesn't, then BlackBerry needs to shut up about that "secure" Android phone thing. Monthly updates alone is diminishing as a selling point to be "secure".
    08-12-17 10:12 AM
  14. taytoxic's Avatar
    I am happy to apologize for the car analogy. I'm just trying to make the point that, as with cars, TVs, cameras, etc, there is no implied contract that phones will receive newer OS versions.

    Some manufacturers do it for all phones for each OS version (Apple, Google, BlackBerry for BB10, with the exception of one Z10 model). Others do it for some phones and some OS versions. Some don't do it at all. There is no standard, so consumers should not make unreasonable assumptions, based on their desires rather than the facts.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Simple analogy, Mcdonald do not promise to provide ketchup when customers are buying the fries, no promise to provide straw when you buy a coke. Do u expect u will get those when you step into Mcdonald? you will even expecting a smile on the waitress! Putting nougat to priv is not difficult to BlackBerry, but why they are not doing this? Contract and service quality are both different, BlackBerry is a big company, keeping the customers happy should be their first priority.
    08-12-17 11:45 AM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Simple analogy, Mcdonald do not promise to provide ketchup when customers are buying the fries, no promise to provide straw when you buy a coke. Do u expect u will get those when you step into Mcdonald? you will even expecting a smile on the waitress! Putting nougat to priv is not difficult to BlackBerry, but why they are not doing this? Contract and service quality are both different, BlackBerry is a big company, keeping the customers happy should be their first priority.
    The fact that some customers can equate a mobile phone with a McDonald's hamburger shows how commodified the mobile phone market has become. That's why BlackBerry left the business and is licensing their brand to commodity manufacturers instead.

    No company needs customers that don't see anything more than commodity value from their products. BlackBerry made the right decision to "fire" Those customers.

    For me, a mobile phone is a depreciating business asset, no different than a computer or a printer. Unless I'm paying an ongoing fee, the only upgrades I expect are for patched drivers and security.

    If you own a Windows 8.1 laptop, the manufacturer won't upgrade you to Windows 10 for free, and neither will Microsoft.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    PHughes likes this.
    08-12-17 12:09 PM
  16. PHughes's Avatar
    Simple analogy, Mcdonald do not promise to provide ketchup when customers are buying the fries, no promise to provide straw when you buy a coke. Do u expect u will get those when you step into Mcdonald? you will even expecting a smile on the waitress! Putting nougat to priv is not difficult to BlackBerry, but why they are not doing this? Contract and service quality are both different, BlackBerry is a big company, keeping the customers happy should be their first priority.
    Oh lord
    kbz1960 likes this.
    08-12-17 12:25 PM
  17. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    If you own a Windows 8.1 laptop, the manufacturer won't upgrade you to Windows 10 for free, and neither will Microsoft.
    I hope that was sarcasm.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    08-12-17 02:19 PM
  18. werkregen's Avatar
    The fact that some customers can equate a mobile phone with a McDonald's hamburger shows how commodified the mobile phone market has become. That's why BlackBerry left the business and is licensing their brand to commodity manufacturers instead.

    No company needs customers that don't see anything more than commodity value from their products. BlackBerry made the right decision to "fire" Those customers.

    For me, a mobile phone is a depreciating business asset, no different than a computer or a printer. Unless I'm paying an ongoing fee, the only upgrades I expect are for patched drivers and security.

    If you own a Windows 8.1 laptop, the manufacturer won't upgrade you to Windows 10 for free, and neither will Microsoft.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Blackberry didn't leave the business. They took a beating from competitors and were kicked out by unsatisfied customers.

    The mobile phone market changed, the product became a comodity and BB didn't adapt so they died.

    If you really consider it a business asset than I question your choice because the alternatives include support without extra perpetual fees for updates and offer hardware for equal or lower price. This means you still picked it out due to personal preference.

    P.S.: Microsoft did offer free upgrades to windows 10 if you had 7 or up.
    08-12-17 02:53 PM
  19. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Blackberry didn't leave the business. They took a beating from competitors and were kicked out by unsatisfied customers.
    Yes, BlackBerry lost convincingly in the marketplace. Launching BB10 after both Apple and Android had become well established was a bad strategy, and it was poorly executed. Whatever BB10's merits (and I personally still prefer it to iOS and Android), it simply didn't matter by the time it was launched.

    The mobile phone market changed, the product became a comodity [sic] and BB didn't adapt so they died.
    Blackberry didn't die. Only their hardware division did. They made the smart move and exited a business where they no longer held any sustainable competitive advantage. In retrospect, it's probably what they should have done in the first place, harvesting the profits from BBOS to either return to shareholders or build the EMM business they are focused on now.

    If you really consider it a business asset than I question your choice because the alternatives include support without extra perpetual fees for updates and offer hardware for equal or lower price. This means you still picked it out due to personal preference.
    It's a depreciating asset, which means it's worth zero after a few years, so it doesn't matter which one I buy, it's just an expense. All I care about is that it supports my business. And, of course it was a personal preference, no different than the paper in our printers or anything else we purchase for business. There is no shortage of options, so everyone should buy whatever phone pleases them that meets their needs.

    P.S.: Microsoft did offer free upgrades to windows 10 if you had 7 or up.
    Microsoft offered free upgrades to Windows 10 for Windows 7 and 8 licenses for a limited time (1 year) as a PROMOTION to ensure that Windows 10 was successful. It wasn't a normal part of their business plan, which is why there is hardly any difference between the upgrade and full version price now. Blackberry has no reason to offer promotions for its mobile business, as there is nothing left for them to promote. The fact that you or I would LIKE an upgrade to Nougat doesn't mean that Blackberry has a business justification to do it. Blackberry's only agenda for mobile is to 1) fulfill their service (security patches) and warranty obligations for their legacy mobile phones (BB10 and Android) 2) fulfill their contract obligations to their new licensing partners and 3) maintain and improve their Android apps. Of those three items, NONE of them are likely of significant financial value. Mobile devices, including Android OS software, are simply not a significant part of their revenue model going forward.

    What confuses me about posts complaining about Blackberry not investing more to support their mobile products in 2017, beyond what they have explicitly committed to, whether it's BB10, Android Version Upgrades, BBM for BB10 or anything else is this: WHY SHOULD THEY?

    Blackberry's license agreement, to which every purchaser agrees, says very clearly,
    "any upgrades, updates or modified versions of the BlackBerry Software...may be provided to Customer by BlackBerry at its sole discretion."
    So, the ONLY reason to expect more from Blackberry is a complete disregard for business reality and the agreement that each user accepts.

    If that disappoints you, then next time, read your software licensing agreement. Lesson learned.
    Last edited by bb10adopter111; 08-12-17 at 04:37 PM.
    08-12-17 03:34 PM
  20. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    Blackberry has no reason to offer promotions for its mobile business, as there is nothing left for them to promote.
    Yes they do. They still own logo that gets stamped on the back of a KEYone. They are forefront in the "secure" Android they are putting on the KEYone. TCL is paying them for that.

    If it has absolutely nothing to do with BlackBerry, why do you think Alex Thurber is showing up at the TCL launches? He works for BlackBerry, not BlackBerry Mobile.

    ...but you're right about the EULA thing. They have the right to drop my support, I also have the right to tell them to get lost, they aren't getting more of my money.
    werkregen likes this.
    08-12-17 04:09 PM
  21. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    But now their customer is TCL, not end users. If TCL thought that they would sell more Blackberry branded phones by having BlackBerry upgrade the Priv and DTEK phones, they could pay BlackBerry to do that, and I imagine BlackBerry would agree. But if the licensees of the Brand don't care, there's no reason for Blackberry to care.

    I would imagine that Blackberry has considered the costs and benefits of upgrading the Android phones they sold prior to shuttering their hardware division. It's a simple calculation.

    IF Cost of upgrading the Priv >
    (the per handset licensing revenue * number of sales lost due to impaired goodwill) -
    taxes,
    THEN don't offer the upgrade.
    ELSE, offer the upgrade

    For example, let's say that they sold 300,000 Privs, and that 70% of those buyers would absolutely buy a future phone from Blackberry Mobile. Out of those 210,000 users, however, 20% are so frustrated with their Priv not getting Nougat that they will NOT buy the phone they would have bought from Blackberry Mobile. So, Blackberry Mobile's total lost sales are 42,000. Assuming that Blackberry earns about $10 (which is typical for this kind of brand licensing deal) per handset, in addition to the upfront payments from TCL, and if BlackBerry's tax rate is 20%, then the total lost net revenue to BlackBerry is $420,000*.8 = $336,000.

    So, assuming they are not prohibited from upgrading the Priv due to their new licensing agreements, that's the cost of NOT upgrading to Android. For a company with revenues of several hundred million dollars a year, it's a rounding error.
    Gallofa likes this.
    08-12-17 04:32 PM
  22. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    OK, then explain why is a company that clearly has less reasons to do so (they are bought out and have no products anymore) are upgrading their phones:

    Nextbit Robin is being updated to Android 7.1.1
    kbz1960 likes this.
    08-12-17 05:36 PM
  23. nogutsnoglory's Avatar
    But now their customer is TCL, not end users. If TCL thought that they would sell more Blackberry branded phones by having BlackBerry upgrade the Priv and DTEK phones, they could pay BlackBerry to do that, and I imagine BlackBerry would agree. But if the licensees of the Brand don't care, there's no reason for Blackberry to care.

    I would imagine that Blackberry has considered the costs and benefits of upgrading the Android phones they sold prior to shuttering their hardware division. It's a simple calculation.

    IF Cost of upgrading the Priv >
    (the per handset licensing revenue * number of sales lost due to impaired goodwill) -
    taxes,
    THEN don't offer the upgrade.
    ELSE, offer the upgrade

    For example, let's say that they sold 300,000 Privs, and that 70% of those buyers would absolutely buy a future phone from Blackberry Mobile. Out of those 210,000 users, however, 20% are so frustrated with their Priv not getting Nougat that they will NOT buy the phone they would have bought from Blackberry Mobile. So, Blackberry Mobile's total lost sales are 42,000. Assuming that Blackberry earns about $10 (which is typical for this kind of brand licensing deal) per handset, in addition to the upfront payments from TCL, and if BlackBerry's tax rate is 20%, then the total lost net revenue to BlackBerry is $420,000*.8 = $336,000.

    So, assuming they are not prohibited from upgrading the Priv due to their new licensing agreements, that's the cost of NOT upgrading to Android. For a company with revenues of several hundred million dollars a year, it's a rounding error.
    If I am TCL I don't want BlackBerry to upgrade its existing mobile devices to Nougat! That would likely hurt sales of the Keyone. That is why I believe that the licensing agreement with TCL prohibits BlackBerry from upgrading the Priv to Nougat.
    08-12-17 05:52 PM
  24. hoytbowhunter's Avatar
    how many time is this company going to shaft everyone. PlayBook, BB10 and now the PRIV. If I could afford to buy the Note 8 off contract that would be my phone when it releases. the world of phone tech is so cruel to the customer. (as in PC's from 2001 can still run Windows 10, not very well, but it still works
    Well I own several LG's and Samsung phones and there still on April and Mays updates, all my BlackBerrys are up to date, so you get that Note 8 and you'll be stuck in the past lol.
    08-12-17 06:38 PM
  25. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    If I am TCL I don't want BlackBerry to upgrade its existing mobile devices to Nougat! That would likely hurt sales of the Keyone. That is why I believe that the licensing agreement with TCL prohibits BlackBerry from upgrading the Priv to Nougat.
    Which is stupid, because they end up hurting the brand.
    08-12-17 08:48 PM
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