09-24-15 11:31 AM
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  1. ayngling's Avatar
    Maybe that line or reasoning would work for some, but even if the slider was running BB10, I wouldn't buy it because I don't want a slider. I think many would also feel that way.
    Sure, if it is the principle then yeah, no matter my sales pitch I would fail.

    I am hoping a lot of people can be swayed, though. Especially the older professionals (30+) who have seen a keyboard before and used it. Even if they don't think they want it, having it as a hidden option might be considered useful, and the touch-scrolling they might like. (If nothing else it is an innovation they have not seen before.) If it is priced as a premium device (same as S6 Edge, no more no less) and has premium build quality, then it can be a way for business people to stand out among all their colleagues with iPhones. They can brag about the productivity of the hub, etc.

    Once influential business people start using it, younger professionals might follow suit, looking up to the older, more influential people. Then we have a brand. Then the young students will get it, wanting to emulate their role models.
    09-20-15 12:59 PM
  2. MO3iusONE's Avatar
    Yeah sure. I am certain that the vast majority that are on a virtual keyboard are gonna instantly love a pkb. PKB are for old people and hipsters.

    If it's not priced competitively it's gonna flop. And if it flops BB has two options: stay in the niche market of governments that want super secure phones or go belly up
    Physical keyboards are for old people and hipsters? I think once people realize how accurate you can be on a physical keyboard and being able to type with ease consistently, people will appreciate physical keyboards again.

    Being curious or surprised at the quaintness of such a feature is not the same as being impressed. There are obviously some that will be interested in the PKB because it's nostalgic because they're of a certain age, or are young and bask in the hispter contrariness, like those neckbeards that sit the quad at uni, banging away on a 1947 Royal Portable laid across the frayed knees of their $130 A&F skinny jeans. The average use, young user especially, the ones with parents willing to buy them most anything they want, the ones with disposable income and no personal responsibility, have lived their entire lives with phones have virtual keyboards. It's what they comfortable with, and they do not care about PKBs. They just don't.



    In terms of build quality, pretty much all OEMs follow the same tiered structure of specs and build quality. So did HDTV manufacturers during the late 90s and early 2000s. How then did we arrive at field of a few high-end makers and a few budget makers? Brand awareness and brand loyalty. For someone that inhabits Crackberry and seems reasonably excited about Venice, it's strange that this fact is lost on you. Samsung and LG are trusted names in mobiles phones. So is Apple. So is Sony. Blackberry is just that company that made phones with keyboard at the dawn of time that people think went out of business. So, let's say they hear about Venice coming out later this year. They can't ask their friends about BBRY, because statistically they don't know anyone that has one. They go online and they read about what Blackberry has done. Handsets with hobbled, last-gen specs. Products being abandoned after passionate promises to the contrary. The app gap. A cash infusion being the only thing that kept BBRY from the grave. The Slider being BBRY's last chance at handset sales. Is that a company which imbues the a buyer with confidence about a purchase, a company a buyer is certain will be there for the lifetime of their phone, that won't abandon the product because its new direction doesn't include that hardware?

    Perhaps to you, but not to me, and I've been with BBRY since I've carried a mobile phone. And most importantly, I doubt it sounds a good proposition to someone buying their first product from Blackberry. Stacking all of those things against a PKB, a curiosity at best for the average consumer, I just don't see it balancing in favour of a BBRY purchase, but time will tell.
    Where are people getting this idea that phones with a physical keyboard are for hipsters? I mean it's funny that blackberry releases these phones (classic and passport) with physical keyboards catered to people who are either business users, people who email, message alot etc. And obviously using a physical keyboard is a breeze when it comes to this.

    Anyway, yeah I could see your average consumer not wanting to pay for this phone off contract but if he or she is going to drop 200 bucks with a two year contract, the Venice might be temping.

    I mean so much factors in. You have people who will be curious to try a phone with a physical keybord. You'll have consumers having issues with their Samsung or LG device or any device, willing to give the Venice a go. You might even have ios users still rocking an iPhone 4 willing to try something new.

    I just don't think this phone will easily be dismissed. I think it will sell well.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    astrodan13 likes this.
    09-20-15 01:31 PM
  3. keithhackneysmullet's Avatar
    Which is why I'm willing to pay $499 for the Nexus 6X and not $699. The specs required for the $699 commitment are universal to me, regardless of what brand it is. But it does have the 810v2, 3GB of memory, wireless charging, the USB-C port and the QHD display, which I feel is excellent for the probable cost.
    The 808 outperforms any version of the SD 810 because oem have throttle it to keep it from melting your face off. $699 for a ground breaking BlackBerry isn't outrageous. If you're not a BlackBerry fan then there are other options. I guarantee that the slider will outlast any nexus LG Huawei simply don't make as good a phone as BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    09-20-15 01:40 PM
  4. d3ac0n's Avatar
    Physical keyboards are for old people and hipsters? I think once people realize how accurate you can be on a physical keyboard and being able to type with ease consistently, people will appreciate physical keyboards again.
    Oh man....

    PKB are not for oldtimers and hipsters; that's the general perception from the consumers that are swimming on a sea of virtual keyboards. Do you honestly think that Mrs Richpants is gonna throw away her iPhone for a physical keyboard? Or Mr. Overpaid is gonna say "you know ehat, I want to be more productive..."

    Are PKB better? Debatable, since Blackberry's virtual one is top notch and oh man dat word prediction!

    The Venice in order to be a success for BB needs one thing: Be competitively priced so more people get it in their hands and make it the poster boy of Blackberry's return to the market with the big boys

    And one last thing: The USA is just one (small) part of the world market. Most people overseas buy their phones contract free, sim free and at full price. Paying $199 with a 2 year iron ball strapped in my leg that you folks call contract is not a sane option for most of us over here (and pretty much everywhere else). So on-contract prices mean squat for the other ~2billion people that are on the market for a smartphone.
    ayngling likes this.
    09-20-15 01:41 PM
  5. JohnGrey's Avatar
    Go out and ask your friends, co-workers and family how many of them WANT a slider (whether it is running android or not). Don't even tell them it's a BlackBerry. I'm serious. Then tell me it is not just a niche product.
    For once, mate, we're in complete agreement.
    lift likes this.
    09-20-15 01:49 PM
  6. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    The 808 outperforms any version of the SD 810 because oem have throttle it to keep it from melting your face off. $699 for a ground breaking BlackBerry isn't outrageous. If you're not a BlackBerry fan then there are other options. I guarantee that the slider will outlast any nexus LG Huawei simply don't make as good a phone as BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    It depends. If tha task you're doing is a short one where the processor never throttles for overheating, the 810 will be faster, if you perform a long task, or a long series of tasks where the overheats and starts slowing down, then the 808 is superior.

    Or you just do like OnePlus Two, that launches a downclocked 810 that never overheats, but isn't any quicker than the 808.

    I think the 808 is a good choice, is more reliable, less hot, slight better battery life, and brings the cost down a tad.
    astrodan13 likes this.
    09-20-15 01:54 PM
  7. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    For once, mate, we're in complete agreement.
    If apple launched one tomorow, it wouldn't be a niche anymore. Its all about the trend.
    ayngling likes this.
    09-20-15 01:55 PM
  8. JohnGrey's Avatar
    Sure, if it is the principle then yeah, no matter my sales pitch I would fail.

    I am hoping a lot of people can be swayed, though. Especially the older professionals (30+) who have seen a keyboard before and used it. Even if they don't think they want it, having it as a hidden option might be considered useful, and the touch-scrolling they might like. (If nothing else it is an innovation they have not seen before.) If it is priced as a premium device (same as S6 Edge, no more no less) and has premium build quality, then it can be a way for business people to stand out among all their colleagues with iPhones. They can brag about the productivity of the hub, etc.

    Once influential business people start using it, younger professionals might follow suit, looking up to the older, more influential people. Then we have a brand. Then the young students will get it, wanting to emulate their role models.
    You're dreaming, sir, if you think that the PKB is the device seller here. Social currency is based on what's sexy and whatever productivity is, it ain't that. And mobile phones aren't a place where anyone wants to stand out. It's a place of conformity by tier.
    lift likes this.
    09-20-15 01:58 PM
  9. JohnGrey's Avatar
    If apple launched one tomorow, it wouldn't be a niche anymore. Its all about the trend.
    Because that's Apple. I'll say it as many times as it takes to sink in. BBRY has not a one-one-hundredth the culture force of Apple or any of the big Android OEMs. For the average consumer, it is, at best, a nostalgia from a bygone era, at worst, a joke.

    BBRY does not have the brand strength to be blazing any new paths or attempting to demand the same premiums as it's much more successful competition.
    lift likes this.
    09-20-15 02:02 PM
  10. mavsguy842's Avatar
    Which is why I'm willing to pay $499 for the Nexus 6X and not $699. The specs required for the $699 commitment are universal to me, regardless of what brand it is. But it does have the 810v2, 3GB of memory, wireless charging, the USB-C port and the QHD display, which I feel is excellent for the probable cost.
    Didn't the last Nexus cost $650 at launch?
    09-20-15 02:20 PM
  11. JohnGrey's Avatar
    Didn't the last Nexus cost $650 at launch?
    Which is why it sold terribly vs its previous iteration.
    d3ac0n likes this.
    09-20-15 02:39 PM
  12. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Because that's Apple. I'll say it as many times as it takes to sink in. BBRY has not a one-one-hundredth the culture force of Apple or any of the big Android OEMs. For the average consumer, it is, at best, a nostalgia from a bygone era, at worst, a joke.

    BBRY does not have the brand strength to be blazing any new paths or attempting to demand the same premiums as it's much more successful competition.
    As other user said before, Around the web, forums and mobile tech webistes, I see more interest in the Venice than all B10 phones together so far. And guess why it gets so much interest? it's because of the keyboard, if it wasn't for the keyboard, it would blend in the middle of the overcrowded smartphone comuny. There's a lot of people "nostalgic" about the blackberry keyboard that they used to have 10 years ago. Surely won't be beating the sales of Galaxy S6 or LG G4, but it's a start

    Look, even the ipad now has a keyboard... There is a market for it.
    09-20-15 02:41 PM
  13. d3ac0n's Avatar
    Didn't the last Nexus cost $650 at launch?
    Yeap. It was a massive flop at that price point. Nexus phones do not have brand recognition so they need to be affordable in order to sell any substantial amount of units. Once it dropped to $349 sold out in minutes.

    And since hardware is so capable these days, with ~$300 Chinese phones performing adequate (90% of flagship adequate) at everyday tasks for the vast majority of users, expensive devices-excluding Apple devices, are really not that hot on the market. Samsung's latest flagship, the S6 is doing poorly in terms of sales. So does every other wannabe Android flagship.
    JohnGrey likes this.
    09-20-15 02:45 PM
  14. d3ac0n's Avatar
    As other user said before, Around the web, forums and mobile tech webistes, I see more interest in the Venice than all B10 phones together so far. And guess why it gets so much interest? it's because of the keyboard, if it wasn't for the keyboard, it would blend in the middle of the overcrowded smartphone comuny. There's a lot of people "nostalgic" about the blackberry keyboard that they used to have 10 years ago. Surely won't be beating the sales of Galaxy S6 or LG G4, but it's a start

    Look, even the ipad now has a keyboard... There is a market for it.
    https://forums.crackberry.com/e?link...token=oCBLTvfy
    Well not really. PKB are intriguing. But not I-will-pay-money-to-own-it-intriguing. Most people will test it for 10' in a store and that will be the end of their PKB adventure.
    JohnGrey likes this.
    09-20-15 02:47 PM
  15. conite's Avatar
    Samsung's latest flagship, the S6 is doing poorly in terms of sales.
    Poorly for Samsung maybe, but in numbers that BlackBerry can only dream about.

    Don't forget, BlackBerry has now shopped out both the OS and the manufacturing, so achieving breakeven is not out of reach.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2639
    ayngling and Blacklatino like this.
    09-20-15 02:48 PM
  16. JohnGrey's Avatar
    As other user said before, Around the web, forums and mobile tech webistes, I see more interest in the Venice than all B10 phones together so far. And guess why it gets so much interest? it's because of the keyboard, if it wasn't for the keyboard, it would blend in the middle of the overcrowded smartphone comuny. There's a lot of people "nostalgic" about the blackberry keyboard that they used to have 10 years ago. Surely won't be beating the sales of Galaxy S6 or LG G4, but it's a start
    I've remarked on this repeatedly and I've yet to hear a logical response: I have yet to see a positive article that includes a price, to say nothing of an MSRP of $699 or higher. If you think that those articles will continue to be positive if such an MSRP is attached to the device, then I have a bridge in London to sell you, very cheap.

    Look, even the ipad now has a keyboard... There is a market for it.
    https://forums.crackberry.com/e?link...token=v_eHV_A3
    Because tablets are billed as desktop replacements, and it's working. It's not a coincidence that Apple managed to loop Adobe and Microsoft (despite its continuing commitment to the Surface line) into hocking the iPad Pro at the most recent hardware event.
    d3ac0n likes this.
    09-20-15 02:48 PM
  17. StutterStep's Avatar
    The slider is far less of a niche product because it's not an overly wide, big and square form like the passport not to mention it's mandatory to use the keyboard and it's on BB10 which most people are not familiar with. Nobody can really tell the slider is different without the keyboard open; people can think of the pkb as a bonus if they wanted to.
    09-20-15 02:50 PM
  18. d3ac0n's Avatar
    Poor for Samsung maybe, but in numbers that BlackBerry can only dream about.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2639

    Blackberry is not Sumsung. The Venice is no S6.

    If OnePlus priced the 1+1 at Premium price, it would flop. Cause OnePlus was just a Chinese newcomer with ZERO brand recognition. In the world of Android Blackberry has ZERO recognition. It's the Canadian guys that used to sell the things with the QWERTY PKB back in the day, for most consumers.
    JohnGrey likes this.
    09-20-15 02:53 PM
  19. JohnGrey's Avatar
    The slider is far less of a niche product because it's not an overly wide, big and square form like the passport not to mention it's mandatory to use the keyboard and it's on BB10 which most people are not familiar with. Nobody can really tell the slider is different without the keyboard open; people can think of the pkb as a bonus if they wanted to.
    That's rather like the 1-year of McAfee that you get when you buy a Windows machine. It's there, most times that you wish it weren't. The point is that, if you're not enamoured with the PKB (and most people won't be) and you aren't focused on productivity (which most people aren't) you have no reason to buy this phone, to say nothing of doing so at a premium price point. This is why I have said, repeatedly, that if BBRY's goal is to maintain its current user base, it has the potential to do well, but as a BBRY grower, it's doomed to failure.
    lift likes this.
    09-20-15 02:56 PM
  20. MO3iusONE's Avatar
    Oh man....

    PKB are not for oldtimers and hipsters; that's the general perception from the consumers that are swimming on a sea of virtual keyboards. Do you honestly think that Mrs Richpants is gonna throw away her iPhone for a physical keyboard? Or Mr. Overpaid is gonna say "you know ehat, I want to be more productive..."

    Are PKB better? Debatable, since Blackberry's virtual one is top notch and oh man dat word prediction!

    The Venice in order to be a success for BB needs one thing: Be competitively priced so more people get it in their hands and make it the poster boy of Blackberry's return to the market with the big boys

    And one last thing: The USA is just one (small) part of the world market. Most people overseas buy their phones contract free, sim free and at full price. Paying $199 with a 2 year iron ball strapped in my leg that you folks call contract is not a sane option for most of us over here (and pretty much everywhere else). So on-contract prices mean squat for the other ~2billion people that are on the market for a smartphone.
    I can see many people ditching their touchscreen only phones for a phone like the slider. Again, it's different, looks like it's well built and it's running Android. That video that was posted by Baka already has over 400k views. I'm not saying blackberry can price this as much as an iPhone but I do feel that they could price it similar to Samsung, LG and even Sony devices and still have it sell.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    astrodan13 and nonamenomore like this.
    09-20-15 02:57 PM
  21. conite's Avatar
    Blackberry is not Sumsung. The Venice is no S6.
    Of course not.

    But the high end Android market is still orders of magnitude beyond anything BlackBerry is used to catering to.

    I have no idea what will happen. I do know that I will buy one, and the statements from others on the various Android forums saying they are ready to lay their money down right now is completely unprecedented. Time will tell.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2639
    09-20-15 02:58 PM
  22. scrannel's Avatar
    Joining the unprecedented...
    09-20-15 03:01 PM
  23. StutterStep's Avatar
    That's rather like the 1-year of McAfee that you get when you buy a Windows machine. It's there, most times that you wish it weren't. The point is that, if you're not enamoured with the PKB (and most people won't be) and you aren't focused on productivity (which most people aren't) you have no reason to buy this phone, to say nothing of doing so at a premium price point. This is why I have said, repeatedly, that if BBRY's goal is to maintain its current user base, it has the potential to do well, but as a BBRY grower, it's doomed to failure.
    How is it doomed to fail when it has a unique physical differentiating feature not to mention in the software area they have the bb suite? In this day and age, people have not be able to experience using a PKB on a high end android device so I would not be so quick to rule out that they don't want one. There is no reason to buy this phone but there is a reason to buy other high end android devices? Explain yourself.
    09-20-15 03:03 PM
  24. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    I've remarked on this repeatedly and I've yet to hear a logical response: I have yet to see a positive article that includes a price, to say nothing of an MSRP of $699 or higher. If you think that those articles will continue to be positive if such an MSRP is attached to the device, then I have a bridge in London to sell you, very cheap.
    It's a 2.5k Samsung Amoled screen, Snapdragon 808, suposed 5.4 inch screen and the usual blackberry hardware build quality with decent speakers and reception. It's a flagship phone, it's going to be expensive, It's a competitor to LG G4, samsung galaxy S6, Iphone 6+, HTC One, etc. the price should be more or less the same as them, and I don't think anybody is expecting it to sell more than those.

    This is a device for people that are wiling to spend 500-700$ on a phone. Look at the Galaxy S6 edge, its 100$ more expensive than the "non edge" version, with pretty much no advantages, it's all about the looks and desirability... But people want it, and if they can afford, they buy it.

    Dropping over 500$ on a phone is pretty much an emotional choice not a rational one, because a 300$ phone can do pretty much the same, just a tad bit slower.
    09-20-15 03:03 PM
  25. d3ac0n's Avatar
    I can see many people ditching their touchscreen only phones for a phone like the slider. Again, it's different, looks like it's well built and it's running Android. That video that was posted by Baka already has over 400k views. I'm not saying blackberry can price this as much as an iPhone but I do feel that they could price it similar to Samsung, LG and even Sony devices and still have it sell.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    I love BB as the next Crackberry addict but I know for a fact that companies don't run based on YouTube views or forum posts. If the thing doesn't reach as many consumer hands as possible (hence my affordable price argument) BB will go belly up as far as consumer market is concerned. And that's the last thing anyone here wants.
    09-20-15 03:04 PM
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