[Ethereo]

That's what you have, a different keyboard, and a AMOLED screen that only samsungs have (lg has Amoleds, but aren't as good as samsungs).

The device design is done, it has flagship specs, it's a flagship phone, and it's going to be priced like one. I could understand the price argument when the Z10 launched, where it had subpar specs, for flagship price, trying to sell just because it says "blackberry". But the Venice isn't like that, it's a flagship spec phone. If blackberry gathers 1-3% of the consumers with this phone, it will be a win already, because BB10 probably doesn't have that now around the world. 1-3% is a few million devices.

So you want BB suddenly being at HTC levels of market share, with a niche product, that doesnt have that high specs but surely will have a higher price because the pkb, good luck with your dreams.
You should read those 101 marketing books that you reccomend to others btw, Sliders are not innovative in the market, and fyi the biggest push in marketing that BB has done to any phone was to the Torch, guess the result, a total flop.

[ptdsb]

I'm not buying the black one so others will have to buy it for the sales to do well. I'm waiting for a white one. If I won a black one I will just pass it on or make some money towards a white one I wouldn't even open it out of the box.

Posted via CB10

I'll take the black one please.

Posted via CB10

[Joao Oliveira]

And what brought the traffic? It was the appearance of roughly flagship specs at a discounted price. And the fact that Samsung and LG continued to sell well undermines your case. The brand loyalty for those OEMs was enough to override the price point. BBRY hasn't the slightest chance to operate from the brand position.



It has that curved screen but does not, from what we can tell, take any software advantage of those. It seems, by all accounts, to be a purely aesthetic and unnecessary cost. And BBRY has brand recognition alright, just not the sort that you want. You're deluding yourself if you think the brand is held in esteem by even a fraction of consumers outside of BBRY's existing user base.

Nope, you compete according to features, price or brand cachet. Rolex for example, produces watches that are materially no better than a nice Fossil or Seiko, and functionally less accurate that any digital watch produced and sold for under $100. Yet, they still sell, just as Apple does. Venice does not have superlative specs, will not, by all accounts, have a superlative price point, and BBRY does not have the brand cachet. I.E., a poor offering.

Blackberry Venice, or any other blackberry will not be a huge sales success in the short term. Many other brands like Sony, Motorola and HTC make very competitive phones with Samsung and LG, but they get nowere near the sales, and they are in the business for some time now when it comes to Android phones.

That argument of price that you guys are having would make sense before the final spec phone. But the venice won't change, it has the best snapdragon processor (if we discar the 810 with it's throtling problems), it has arguably the best screen on the market, it's big, it should be well made. It can't be sold cheap no matter what.

If at any time there was a wrong decision regarding the price, it was before the device was made, not now, you can't just sell a phone like this at 300$. The Venice is done, it's finished as we know it, and should be one of the most expensive phones to build when it's launched. the screen alone, if it's is like the S6 Edge, it's 200$ to replace.

It's a phone like the S6 Edge, it's not for those who want it, it's for those who can afford it.

[DJM626]

Because that's Apple. I'll say it as many times as it takes to sink in. BBRY has not a one-one-hundredth the culture force of Apple or any of the big Android OEMs. For the average consumer, it is, at best, a nostalgia from a bygone era, at worst, a joke.

BBRY does not have the brand strength to be blazing any new paths or attempting to demand the same premiums as it's much more successful competition.

I would disagree with your statement about BBRY not having that brand strength. Remember, BB was once king of all smartphones and was around before apple produced their first smart phone. Blackberry pretty much was one of the first ones. Not saying I don't agree with some of your statements or postings but not this one

[JohnGrey]

Blackberry Venice, or any other blackberry will not be a huge sales success in the short term. Many other brands like Sony, Motorola and HTC make very competitive phones with Samsung and LG, but they get nowere near the sales, and they are in the business for some time now when it comes to Android phones.

That argument of price that you guys are having would make sense before the final spec phone. But the venice won't change, it has the best snapdragon processor (if we discar the 810 with it's throtling problems), it has arguably the best screen on the market, it's big, it should be well made. It can't be sold cheap no matter what.

If at any time there was a wrong decision regarding the price, it was before the device was made, not now, you can't just sell a phone like this at 300$. The Venice is done, it's finished as we know it, and should be one of the most expensive phones to build when it's launched. the screen alone, if it's is like the S6 Edge, it's 200$ to replace.

It's a phone like the S6 Edge, it's not for those who want it, it's for those who can afford it.

Then it fails by any reasonable estimation. Those who can afford it, won't want it. They want the cachet of Apple or Samsung. I repeat my Rolex comparison in this regard. BBRY has no social status, other than being an underdog. That's not an attractive position from which to sell a phone.

[THBW]

I would actually price it at $699 (so that it's clear it is meant to be a high end phone), but offer an 'early adopter' discount for the first month. Reward those willing to take the plunge early.

I know they did something like that with the Passport, even if eventually they never really raised the price,.. it did get me to pull the trigger right away because 'I didn't want to miss the discount'.

Posted via CB10

I agree with your reasoning 100%. 699 is a sweet spot for pricing and I would even throw in a 50 dollar discount for the first 10 days or so. Generate a bit of excitement and get people buying the phone. At this price, it is still cheaper than all the other flagship phones and you are getting so much more. For god sake Mr. Chen, don't screw this one up. Keep the ball rolling.

[RyanGermann]

Go out and ask your friends, co-workers and family how many of them WANT a slider (whether it is running android or not). Don't even tell them it's a BlackBerry. I'm serious. Then tell me it is not just a niche product.

They wiuldn't want it if it's not a BlackBerry because non-BB PKB device = crappy keyboard and low build quality to man.

Posted via CB10

[Joao Oliveira]

Well they can price it like an iPhone AFAIC but it ain't gonna sell, I guarantee it. If it's competitively priced it will make a small but albeit meaningful dent in the market. And Blackberry needs the attention right now

It has the atention from the media... but you didn't seem very excited about it a few posts ago. Forget the idea of Blackberry being a huge success. NO Blackberry at any specs or price would jusk kick the market in the pants, people will still buy iphones and Samsungs.

When the iphone cam out, Blackberry and Nokia were king... When the Iphone 2 came out, Nokias and Blackberries probably were still the most sold smartphones...

The Venice sucess has to be seen in relation to previous Blackberry devices. It's worthless comparing Venice sales with well established Android smartphone makers. First, the Venice has to beat Passport and Z10, and Z30 sales when they launched, then we can start looking at the nex competitors. It's like a race, you look after your next openent.

[buwee]

If you think that Blackberry remotely carries the same social status as Apple, irrespective of if that status is rightly deserved, you're dreaming.

I guess you obviously think $700 is a lot of money for a phone. I would gladly pay that and more for a Blackberry Android if it does what I want without the usual lag & stuttering like I get on every single Android I've bought including my current "Brand Recognized" Note 4 Edge which btw I'm only using as a camera as I can't stand the lag on it. I have no problems paying for a phone as long as it does the job for me. I bought the PP on day 1 for $700 and didn't even have to think about it.

[JohnGrey]

I would disagree with your statement about BBRY not having that brand strength. Remember, BB was once king of all smartphones and was around before apple produced their first smart phone. Blackberry pretty much was one of the first ones. Not saying I don't agree with some of your statements or postings but not this one

Yeah? Tell the 99.7% of mobile users that don't own one that you think BBRY has great brand positioning and report back there responses. After excluding snickers and blank looks, I'm confident the report will be a short one.

[Joao Oliveira]

Then it fails by any reasonable estimation. Those who can afford it, won't want it. They want the cachet of Apple or Samsung. I repeat my Rolex comparison in this regard. BBRY has no social status, other than being an underdog. That's not an attractive position from which to sell a phone.

Regardless of the format, price or specs, No blackberry will ever be near the top 5 smartphones sold

The Venice sucess has to be seen in relation to previous Blackberry devices. It's worthless comparing Venice sales with well established Android smartphone makers. First, the Venice has to beat Passport and Z10, and Z30 sales when they launched, then we can start looking at the next competitors. It's like a race, you look after your next openent.

[Ethereo]

Yeah? Tell the 99.7% of mobile users that don't own one that you think BBRY has great brand positioning and report back there responses. After excluding snickers and blank looks, I'm confident the report will be a short one.

Some people here live in another planet, actually the problem of BB is not the phones or the OS (the best in the market), or whatever, is the brand, it is a tarnished brand all around the world.

[JohnGrey]

I guess you obviously think $700 is a lot of money for a phone. I would gladly pay that and more for a Blackberry Android if it does what I want without the usual lag & stuttering like I get on every single Android I've bought including my current "Brand Recognized" Note 4 Edge.

Congratulations on your upcoming purchase. Do us a favour and report back how many consumers follow your example while you're there.

[JohnGrey]

Regardless of the format, price r specs, No blackberry will ever be near the top 5 smartphones sold

The Venice sucess has to be seen in relation to previous Blackberry devices. It's worthless comparing Venice sales with well established Android smartphone makers. First, the Venice has to beat Passport and Z10, and Z30 sales when they launched, then we can start looking at the next competitors. It's like a race, you look after your next openent.

BBRY can't even sell the notion of the Slider to a large portion of its existing user base despite, basically, being the all-touch slab with 'flagship specs'. Forget about making even a meaningful dent in non-BBRY market share.

[JohnGrey]

Regardless of the format, price rr specs, No blackberry will ever be near the top 5 smartphones sold

The Venice sucess has to be seen in relation to previous Blackberry devices. It's worthless comparing Venice sales with well established Android smartphone makers. First, the Venice has to beat Passport and Z10, and Z30 sales when they launched, then we can start looking at the next competitors. It's like a race, you look after your next openent.

1.2 Billion Smartphones were sold in 2014. If Androidberry sells 1% of that marketshare, we are talking about 12 million phones sold by Blackberry. Blackberry 10 phones in total sold 7 million in 2014.

How many of those 1.2bn were priced as flagship devices. Take that number, and tell me if 1% of it reaches BBRY's target sales. I think you're going to be sorely disappointed.

[Joao Oliveira]

BBRY can't even sell the notion of the Slider to a large portion of its existing user base despite, basically, being the all-touch slab with 'flagship specs'. Forget about making even a meaningful dent in non-BBRY market share.

People say only 1% (talking out of their asses) want Pkb:
1.2 Billion Smartphones were sold in 2014. If Androidberry sells 1% of that marketshare, we are talking about 12 million phones sold by Blackberry. Blackberry 10 phones in total sold 7 million in 2014.

I never talked about "meaningfull" dent in non-BBRY, if anyone did it was you users that claim the price is wrong. I don't think the first Android Blackberry regardless of price and specs will make a significant dent in the Android Industry.

[ayngling]

Well they can price it like an iPhone AFAIC but it ain't gonna sell, I guarantee it. If it's competitively priced it will make a small but albeit meaningful dent in the market. And Blackberry needs the attention right now

I do agree with this. It needs to be competitively priced to make a small but albeit meaningful dent in the market. And Blackberry needs the attention right now.

[JohnGrey]

People say only 1% (talking out of their asses) want Pkb:
1.2 Billion Smartphones were sold in 2014. If Androidberry sells 1% of that marketshare, we are talking about 12 million phones sold by Blackberry. Blackberry 10 phones in total sold 7 million in 2014.

I never talked about "meaningfull" dent in non-BBRY, if anyone did it was you users that claim the price is wrong. I don't think the first Android Blackberry regardless of price and specs will make a significant dent in the Android Industry.

Then, what's the bloody point, man? If they aren't trying to grow the business, why not just shunt BB10 into support mode (which they have) and wind out the handset business? Yeah, they lose 40% of revenue but dismiss huge manufacturing, R&D and licensing costs.

[Joao Oliveira]

How many of those 1.2bn were priced as flagship devices. Take that number, and tell me if 1% of it reaches BBRY's target sales. I think you're going to be sorely disappointed.

Now you're just trying to change things to suit your argument. what is going to be next? the percentage of users that buy pink phones? That's irrelevant. iphone only sells "flagship" phones and is the most sold phone in the world by quite a margin

[Joao Oliveira]

Then, what's the bloody point, man? If they aren't trying to grow the business, why not just shunt BB10 into support mode (which they have) and wind out the handset business? Yeah, they lose 40% of revenue but dismiss huge manufacturing, R&D and licensing costs.

so 7million to 12 billion isn't an increase? it's almost DOULBE!!! If things go well, this wont be the last Androidberry phone, there will be more entry level phones aswell. At the moment all Blackberry wants is to get tha handset business profitable, that's it.

You talk like there is a "special formula" between price and specs that is going to get the market all buying blackberrys.

[JohnGrey]

Now you're just trying to change things to suit your argument. what is going to be next? the percentage of users that buy pink phones? That's irrelevant. iphone only sells "flagship" phones and is the most sold phone in the world by quite a margin

Most sold single model, yes, not the most sold platform. That honour belongs to Android, on account of huge sales of low-cost handsets and makes up the bulk of handset sales in the world. That's why it matters; Venice's price point is flagship, so reasonably only flagship device users can and will buy it. What percentage of phones sold were flagship and what's 1% of that. I'll wait.

[Ethereo]

People say only 1% (talking out of their asses) want Pkb:
1.2 Billion Smartphones were sold in 2014. If Androidberry sells 1% of that marketshare, we are talking about 12 million phones sold by Blackberry. Blackberry 10 phones in total sold 7 million in 2014.

I never talked about "meaningfull" dent in non-BBRY, if anyone did it was you users that claim the price is wrong. I don't think the first Android Blackberry regardless of price and specs will make a significant dent in the Android Industry.

Sorry your maths are wrong, you need to know in the high end price segment (U$400+) how many smartphones were sold (more like 300 million), and then calculate how many percentage BB needs, and this segment is thinner because this phone is going to be U$600+ for sure.

[JohnGrey]

Sorry your maths are wrong, you need to know in the high end price segment (U$400+) how many smartphones were sold (more like 300 million), and then calculate how many percentage BB needs, and this segment is thinner because this phone is going to be U$600+ for sure.

Thank God, someone took maths at uni and not communications.

[Joao Oliveira]

Most sold single model, yes, not the most sold platform. That honour belongs to Android, on account of huge sales of low-cost handsets and makes up the bulk of handset sales in the world. That's why it matters; Venice's price point is flagship, so reasonably only flagship device users can and will buy it. What percentage of phones sold were flagship and what's 1% of that. I'll wait.

Kepp twisting the story to suit your argument. The Iphone argument is to show you that the high phones sell well, and you see a lot of iphones, and a lot of top end samsungs aswell. So there is A LOT of people buying high end phones, and those people hold a significant marketshare in the smartphone industry.

So Blackberry that is desperate to have positive cashflows, but your decision is to simply sell the Venice at a loss, pricing at the price of mid to low end phones... What a fantastic business model. At this moment I'm assuming that you just created a CB account to troll or something because it doesn't make sense anymore...

Have ou seen the phone? it has a OLED curved panel (expensive), top end processor (expensive), lots of ram (expensive), Slider mechanism (just added cost compared to "normal" phones)... but yeah... sell it for 300$

if this phone sells for the price of a Lg G4, Passport, or Galaxy S6 (normal), it will be a huge deal given what it delivers. For those who can't afford it, get your more basic one plus two.

[JohnGrey]

Kepp twisting the story to suit your argument. The Iphone argument is to show you that the high phones sell well, and you see a lot of iphones, and a lot of top end samsungs aswell. So there is A LOT of people buying high end phones, and those people hold a significant marketshare in the smartphone industry.

So Blackberry that is desperate to have positive cashflows, but your decision is to simply sell the Venice at a loss, pricing at the price of mid to low end phones... What a fantastic business model. At this moment I'm assuming that you just created a CB account to troll or something because it doesn't make sense anymore...

Have ou seen the phone? it has a OLED curved panel (expensive), top end processor (expensive), lots of ram (expensive), Slider mechanism (just added cost compared to "normal" phones)... but yeah... sell it for 300$

if this phone sells for the price of a Lg G4, Passport, or Galaxy S6 (normal), it will be a huge deal given what it delivers. For those who can't afford it, get your more basic one plus two.

Yes, of course, if someone says that a BBRY isn't worth the average consumer plopping down a bar of gold for the privilege of owning, one they must be a troll.

But by all means dodge my question and continue your zealotry. You're certainly in the right place.