[anon(9353145)]

And we know this how? They're displaying the Passport 2 with Passport specs. And yes, I've used Sachesi. When I mentioned the jitters, it was in the context that my phone had few and they were far apart.

I didn't realize the Oslo was being considered the Passport 2. I look at it as yet another variant on Passport 1 like the AT&T Passport. A successor would have different internals, and they'll possibly experiment some more with the form factor. Pure speculation on my part on my part though.

I don't think MS spending so much on Win10 has anything to do with owning an OS. Remember Windows Mobile. That's actually where I started on smartphones. And one of its advantages was that it had a similar UI to PC Windows. The common functionality was very limited, but the heritage was obvious. As Windows developed, MS forgot the user when they added features that bogged down the OS, then forgot to warn the public that Win8.x was going to be a HUGE departure from anything before it. The upside was that both PC and phone got the tiles (which work on a phone, not so much on a PC). And they lost a ton of users to Apple and linux.

MS needs a miracle OS to stay alive as a software and services company. And Win10 could be it. So far, it's the best Windows they've made. It's running on all my computers that I use for my writing. Even the first beta was better that the production version of 8.0. I have several netbooks that supposedly should have problems with it because of out of spec hardware. Instead, it runs like a champ, faster and smoother that 7.x or 8.x, giving them new life.

I think it has everything to do with owning an OS / Platform. Apple and Google have Microsoft running scared - as they should be. Windows 8 has to be the mother of all screwups, imho. I thought Vista was bad... Windows 10 is much, much better, but then again it HAD to be significantly better. And it's notable that they did a 180 from Windows 8 - and even skipped Windows 9 to put as much distance as possible from it. Instead of bringing the mobile paradigm to the desktop, in 10 they're bringing the desktop paradigm to mobile (for the most part). We'll see if the strategy leads to a significant bump in sales, but I'm skeptical. I don't think Microsoft is going to exit the market, but I'd bet good money that they'll stay a distant third for the foreseeable future.

Exactly why this could be the indirect path to Google services. Google wants some level of control, which is what the OHA does. But it's also obvious that, saying Google was willing to make an exception, they can't without taking a lot of heat from all the OEMs that already were forced to have OHA in place. But a BB Android device fully under the OHA might make the services sneaking into the runtime much less an issue.

Well, that would be a pleasant surprise if it turns out that way. Who knows, anything's possible I guess.

[RyanGermann]

I didn't realize the Oslo was being considered the Passport 2. I look at it as yet another variant on Passport 1 like the AT&T Passport.

I think it was said very early on that the Oslo is the China region Passport: I've never seen it referred to by a credible source as the Passport 2.

Posted via CB10

[deadcowboy]

I think it was said very early on that the Oslo is the China region Passport: I've never seen it referred to by a credible source as the Passport 2.

Posted via CB10

Right. Just another variation. Passport 2 is a long ways off. And it'll have 4 rows if Chen is sane.

Posted via CB10

[John Vieira]

Right. Just another variation. Passport 2 is a long ways off. And it'll have 4 rows if Chen is sane.

Posted via CB10

Why? 3 row is the way to go?

Work Wide and Prosper

[RyanGermann]

Why? 3 row is the way to go?

I think there are a lot of BBOS users who even though they may have switched to other platforms, have the "sense memory" of using the 4 row keyboard. If the Passport 2 has the four row keyboard, I think many BBOS users would take to it better than the current 3 row PKB + VKB combination. I know my Passport experience was marred by the 3 row keyboard especially having the B key to the RIGHT of the space bar: that's an abomination.

[John Vieira]

I think there are a lot of BBOS users who even though they may have switched to other platforms, have the "sense memory" of using the 4 row keyboard. If the Passport 2 has the four row keyboard, I think many BBOS users would take to it better than the current 3 row PKB + VKB combination. I know my Passport experience was marred by the 3 row keyboard especially having the B key to the RIGHT of the space bar: that's an abomination.

And if you tried it for more than 5 minutes, you'd be fine.

Also, maybe they should try a phone from this decade?

I can appreciate the feelings of liking the old stuff but seriously this demand for things like the trackpad and 4 row keyboard is holding Blackberry back from actually making great devices.

I think it's time they stop listening to their customers.

Work Wide and Prosper

[RyanGermann]

And if you tried it for more than 5 minutes, you'd be fine.

I tried it from launch in October to March. Many months, daily driver. Still prefer the 4 row keyboard.

Also, maybe they should try a phone from this decade?

Like the Classic?

I can appreciate the feelings of liking the old stuff but seriously this demand for things like the trackpad and 4 row keyboard is holding Blackberry back from actually making great devices.

Well, that's a load of bunk right there. Lots of people are making great devices, including BlackBerry. Innovation? Now that's a much more difficult order to fill. I would call the Passport innovative, but it's not innovative because it has a 3 row keyboard instead of a 4 row keyboard. It's innovative because the keyboard is touch sensitive and the screen IS square BUT large and high resolution and the sum of all those parts make for a unique experience that, on paper, didn't quite seem that it would work as well as it does... which is what really irks me about the anti-trackpad crowd: most are so limited that they can't imagine how the trackpad could be useful on a 16 x 9 device (most having never used a Torch) so they think it's a bad idea or "step backwards".

A device with a four row keyboard could ALSO be touch sensitive and use software to predict specific extra characters to display on screen to access with one tap rather than pressing ALT, so you could offer users the VKB row with predictive / supportive software but with a 4 row keyboard that would be easier to work with should (as my Passport experience shows) the predictive "here are some more keys you might like to have on your screen" feature is still rough around the edges. They'll get it right eventually, but in the mean time, the four row keyboard has WAY more fans than the 3 row keyboard. Even lots of Passport users say they like the device, but wish it had the 4 row keyboard.

I think it's time they stop listening to their customers.

The real skill that BlackBerry lacks is LISTENING: they hear, but they don't seem to have the skill of a real innovator to know what a customer really NEEDS when they ask for something. For example, making a device with a Trackpad but WITHOUT a 16 x 9 screen wasn't the best way to deliver an innovative "BlackBerry" experience: ironically, the Trackpad has more utility on a full slab 16 x 9 device than it does on a Bold-style device: on a 16 x 9 screen, the top of the screen is harder to reach with your single thumb, but if you had the trackpad, you could move the highlight around safely with one hand... but on a Classic or Q10, you can almost reach the full screen WITHOUT having to use a trackpad. You can disagree, I'm pretty sure I don't care if you do, but just like the Passport, most people can't really grasp what it would be like to use without actually using it, which is the conundrum of innovation: you have to spend a lot of money, take a lot of risks to innovate, and at this point, BlackBerry seems keen to innovate but can't afford to take a lot of risks: the ones that CAN afford it (Apple, in particular) are kind of bound to NOT innovate because they don't want to kill the Golden Goose of familiarity that iPhones currently have on their side.

Samsung is the one to watch: they CRAAAAA-ZEEE. They will innovate, they will fail sometimes, but I hope BlackBerry can ride their train and we'll see some BB10 devices that have a bit of Samsung "what the hell, let's try THIS" on their side!

[anon(9353145)]

If the Passport two has a four row keyboard with alt, sym, etc I'll still get it as long it's faithful to the wider screen and the pkb is touch capacitive.

Having said that, I like the minimalist approach to the current PP keyboard with the virtual symbols. Not a deal breaker either way, but there's something to be said about the boldness of just putting the letters on the keys. It's as much as design / aesthetic choice as it is practical. And in that way it's also a marketing tool, imho.

[deadcowboy]

If the Passport two has a four row keyboard with alt, sym, etc I'll still get it as long it's faithful to the wider screen and the pkb is touch capacitive.

Having said that, I like the minimalist approach to the current PP keyboard with the virtual symbols. Not a deal breaker either way, but there's something to be said about the boldness of just putting the letters on the keys. It's as much as design / aesthetic choice as it is practical. And in that way it's also a marketing tool, imho.

The irony is that while the keyboard appears minimalist, the actual Passport typing screen is a nightmare, employing both a physical keyboard and a morphing, multi-page virtual keyboard. Screen items constantly being pushed up and down when the virtual keyboard appears, or when bouncing between pages of the expanded virtual keyboard. Not to mention the awkwardness of having to break your typing flow to add a simple bit of punctuation from the expanded virtual keyboard.

I loved the Passport, and I used it for many months. But the typing experience is inefficient and anything but minimalistiC. BB's Classic/classic 4-row keyboard is efficient and minimalist in that it takes fewer keys to map so many keystroke options.

I'm loving my Classic, and I loved my Q10 before that. Being able to type whole paragraphs without even looking at the screen feels amazing. But I do crave something more modern, and the Passport could have been there if only it had one extra vertical row with modifier keys.

See, the Passport doesn't even necessarily need a 4th row, but it absolutely does need modifier keys. This could be easily accomplished by adding an extra vertical row. It's not as if the Passport is wanting for horizontal real estate.

Posted via CB10

[anon(9353145)]

The irony is that while the keyboard appears minimalist, the actual Passport typing screen is a nightmare, employing both a physical keyboard and a morphing, multi-page virtual keyboard. Screen items constantly being pushed up and down when the virtual keyboard appears, or when bouncing between pages of the expanded virtual keyboard. Not to mention the awkwardness of having to break your typing flow to add a simple bit of punctuation from the expanded virtual keyboard.

I loved the Passport, and I used it for many months. But the typing experience is inefficient and anything but minimalistiC. BB's Classic/classic 4-row keyboard is efficient and minimalist in that it takes fewer keys to map so many keystroke options.

I'm loving my Classic, and I loved my Q10 before that. Being able to type whole paragraphs without even looking at the screen feels amazing. But I do crave something more modern, and the Passport could have been there if only it had one extra vertical row with modifier keys.

See, the Passport doesn't even necessarily need a 4th row, but it absolutely does need modifier keys. This could be easily accomplished by adding an extra vertical row. It's not as if the Passport is wanting for horizontal real estate.

Posted via CB10

Yeah, for the pkb warriors who can type without looking at the phone it certainly makes sense (I'm no pkb warrior, lol). Anyway, the Slider has the modifiers and symbols firmly back in place; I suspect that the next iteration of the Passport will follow suit. It would be really cool if they could find a way to have the letters dynamically switch to symbols on the keys if a modifier was pushed. No idea the engineering required to pull that off (or the cost). Barring that, just printing them on the keys. But it does mess with the whole minimalist design paradigm.

As I said, I'd still get one as I love the overall form factor.

[deadcowboy]

Yeah, for the pkb warriors who can type without looking at the phone it certainly makes sense (I'm no pkb warrior, lol). Anyway, the Slider has the modifiers and symbols firmly back in place; I suspect that the next iteration of the Passport will follow suit. It would be really cool if they could find a way to have the letters dynamically switch to symbols on the keys if a modifier was pushed. No idea the engineering required to pull that off (or the cost). Barring that, just printing them on the keys. But it does mess with the whole minimalist design paradigm.

As I said, I'd still get one as I love the overall form factor.

Hmm, you could possibly do it with filtered letters on the keys and varying LED colors. Say blue filter and blue led for regular typing, and red filter with red led for modified characters. LEDs can change colors, but the filters would have to match the color to be appropriately bright and dim. Unfortunately, I think it'd look even messier, but that's my only idea.

Posted via CB10

[anon(9353145)]

Hmm, you could possibly do it with filtered letters on the keys and varying LED colors. Say blue filter and blue led for regular typing, and red filter with red led for modified characters. LEDs can change colors, but the filters would have to match the color to be appropriately bright and dim. Unfortunately, I think it'd look even messier, but that's my only idea.

Posted via CB10

Yeah, probably too tricky but it would be cool. If they make the next Passport a Slider that would definitely stand out. Pootermobile made some renders that had me drooling, lol.

Posted via CB10

[sgxbb]

i think its a smart way to get the brand back in consumers hands... new blackberry with android familiarity.. etc. etc..

after some bond is built with the brand.. who knows? their next phone may be another blackberry... with bb10!!!?

[Bbnivende]

Ryan, there is very little chance that we see a trackpad on the slider. If they ever put another trackpad on make it backlit and the same size as the 9900.

[powereds]

Yea if they can mimick BB10 to the point where you can't tell that would be awesome. I'm sure they can.

Posted via CB10

Not only mimicking BlackBerry 10's UI but I'm more concern on the Android security side. www.androidsecure.com


"I am the the Way; I am the Truth, and Life. No one can come to the Father except through Me." - John 14:6

[MarsupilamiX]

It really doesn't matter.

At the end of the day I won't buy a Blackberry powered by Android.

I DO enjoy my Passport, and an Android powered Passport would be interesting.

But I'm not interested.

Maybe I'll get my Jolla phone afterall.

Also, not interested in a slider. The ancient 4row keyboard ruins it, from now on it should be 3 row capacitive only. Also curved glass is a dumb gimmick, they can keep it.

So whether it's Android or BB10. Well, I already have my Passport.

Work Wide and Prosper

The 3 Row keyboard is what single handedly killed the typing experience on the Passport for me.
It's an incredibly dumb design choice, negating the whole point of a physical keyboard.

Not having physical "alt" keys and making the alt keys pop up on the touchscreen every single time I press the virtual alt key, is just dumb.
The 3 row keyboard (without the extras like it being a trackpad and the swiping) was the biggest downgrade in terms of typing experience I ever had, since the OG iPhone.

[liveonparadise]

Anything to save bb from collapsing

Posted via bb :P

[MO3iusONE]

In my opinion,
The slider can't be BlackBerry's first Android device for those reasons :
-People with android doesn't care about pkb
-I don't recall any supports for androids with pkb( correct me if I'm wrong)
-I'm a fan of the torch but I think the slider is more of a BlackBerry fan device than a device for testing the water on android

Posted via CB10

Trust me.. A lot of Android users including myself miss physical keyboards. The problem is that there isn't any android device with a physical keyboard at the moment. A lot of us use to be previous Treo, Palm Pre and even blackberry users.

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

[Mr.mister]

Shouldn't there be a press release or something ?
They did even talk about adopting android during the shareholders meeting


Posted via CB10

[Mr.mister]

Well none of what rumored happened yet

Posted via CB10

[europolska00]

i think its a smart way to get the brand back in consumers hands... new blackberry with android familiarity.. etc. etc..

after some bond is built with the brand.. who knows? their next phone may be another blackberry... with bb10!!!?

What he said ^ x9999999999999999999999 Totally agree brother!

Posted via CB10

[Prem WatsApp]

Trust me.. A lot of Android users including myself miss physical keyboards. The problem is that there isn't any android device with a physical keyboard at the moment. A lot of us use to be previous Treo, Palm Pre and even blackberry users.

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

That's the game they're playing. I'm sure it's gonna work, better, much better than previous attempts....

It doesn't mean BB10 needs to be abandoned! :-D

�   Leakers' gonna leak... :-)   �

[Mr.mister]

The anticipation is killing me. Patience is running out.

Posted via CB10

[crackattacker]

I for one can't wait to try this new BlackBerry device! I want to order it now!!

Posted via CB10

[c_legaspi]

How about a classic and anndroid

Posted via CB10