Should QNX become the core of all future Android devices?

Originally Posted by dejanh

You're basing your investment decision on an anonymous post about one device on Reddit. That's all I have to say.

Actually, no, the device is real and most certainly running Android. Did you watch the latest interview of John Chen with the Churchill Club? He's got something up his sleeve that he could all but confirm. BlackBerry is not going to release this device unless it is super secure. The entire future of the company depends on their reputation as THE choice for security. It just makes sense that they wouldn't trust anyone else but themselves at the core and this is the only way I can see them releasing this Android device.

They aren't just going to half-*** it. It is going to have to be a better and solidly secure Android. They have been saying forever now that what they do is provide end to end security. The end point is not going to be handed over to a rootable source. It's going to be kept secure by BlackBerry. I'm not asserting this as fact but it all seems plausible and makes more sense than anything else. BlackBerry has adopted a "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" attitude when it comes to the OS and the app war and, as a result, the others are going to have to do the same when it comes to security because nobody will be able to match what BlackBerry can provide when it comes to end to end security, regardless of the platform. Just watch. We're going to like what happens next...

Originally Posted by m1kr0

If, IF Chen can pull this one off, it may be one of the single greatest moments in the history of BlackBerry. No way this will happen.

LOL. Not laughing at you, just because I thought the same thing. I have become a bit of pessimist w/r/t/ BB unfortunately.

A bit more food for thought (forgive me if it has been said), but Android does have an image problem with security. This could be a big step towards improving that image, so much so that I could even see Google working with BB to make it easy for device makers to choose which kernel they wanted to use, thus samsung could offer a secure galaxy option at a $50 premium over their Galaxy Regular.

I think there is some logic here, but a lot of things are to fall in place for it to be possible, which makes this a long shot I guess.

Originally Posted by TheBirdDog

Just watch. We're going to like what happens next...

I will watch. I am very skeptical that BlackBerry has been secretly developing secure Android while peddling BB10 Passports and Classics. I have few doubts left that Android is coming to BlackBerry. I just do not believe that it will be what many think it will be (most likely it will be very much a regular Android device, with minimal, if any changes beyond just the BlackBerry experience suite of apps).

Originally Posted by cgk

If he pulls this off, I've already promised $100 to a worthy charity on here - I'll also send up a "I was wrong about everything thread" where people can publically (metaphorically) throw tomatos at me.

I will raise you another $100 if this ever happens.

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Originally Posted by Ment

Interesting about GNU HURD project. One of the major roadblocks appears to be device driver support. As it applies to Blackberry I would think beyond the technical resources of replacing Linux kernel with QNX is paying for additional license fees for all the proprietary drivers in the hardware components for a modern smartphone.

This issue alone is why it would be foolish, IMO, for BB to try to shim QNX under Android. That just creates more problems for the future.


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Originally Posted by dbmalloy

Lets face some facts.... most users be it Android or IOS want to root their device for one simple reason... you can run pirated software.

I hate to stereotype, but rooting/jailbreaking to get premium apps for free is more of an iOS thing. On most Android devices, you don't need to root to install apks.

The Android dev community is the strongest when it comes to denouncing warez.

Originally Posted by glamrlama

It is like someone took some controlled substance and then sprinkled some other controlled substance on it and then added a bit of another controlled substance and then smoked it off a burning hot Z10 while an OS update was in progress. WHO comes up with this stuff? CrackBerry has jumped the shark! The level of crazy here has reached new levels. The crowds may be smaller but the level of crazy is immense!

Lol. That's our new tag line CrackBerry......A new level of Crazy

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Originally Posted by Tre Lawrence

I hate to stereotype, but rooting/jailbreaking to get premium apps for free is more of an iOS thing. On most Android devices, you don't need to root to install apks.

The Android dev community is the strongest when it comes to denouncing warez.

Agreed. The rooting community in Android is more about removing bloatware and improving bad manufacturer versions of android. You don't need root to install pirated software. IOS jailbreaking is about adding functionality and stealing software.

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If the BB were to license QNX kernel for a secure version of Android, I would guess it would be phone makers that would pay licensing. i.e., Samsung. Samsung would also be on the hook for writing drivers, just like they are already on the hook to write drivers to for Linux. Given that both OS's are POSIX compliant, and share a common ancestor, this isn't like writing a driver for windows, then writing one for linux.

Yeah QNX is RTOS, but those differences live mainly in the event model/thread scheduler not in device drivers or how you write them. Yeah QNX is a micro kernel and linux is monolithic, but your core logic for the driver is the same, just how it gets loaded is different. In my experience, making drivers is easier for a micro kernel not necessarily in the coding but just in the developer workflow. It has been a number of years since I have written a driver, so my knowledge could be as dated as my theory is cockeyed. :)

And yeah there is some crazy speculation going on in these forums, but it is a lot better than coming here to a ghost town.

Originally Posted by snowsquirrel

If the BB were to license QNX kernel for a secure version of Android, I would guess it would be phone makers that would pay licensing. i.e., Samsung. Samsung would also be on the hook for writing drivers, just like they are already on the hook to write drivers to for Linux. Given that both OS's are POSIX compliant, and share a common ancestor, this isn't like writing a driver for windows, then writing one for linux.

Yeah QNX is RTOS, but those differences live mainly in the event model/thread scheduler not in device drivers or how you write them. Yeah QNX is a micro kernel and linux is monolithic, but your core logic for the driver is the same, just how it gets loaded is different. In my experience, making drivers is easier for a micro kernel not necessarily in the coding but just in the developer workflow. It has been a number of years since I have written a driver, so my knowledge could be as dated as my theory is cockeyed. :)

And yeah there is some crazy speculation going on in these forums, but it is a lot better than coming here to a ghost town.

Samsung doesn't write drivers from scratch tho, it would be more precise that they modify drivers from the hardware component manufacturers just like they pay for an ARM license and modify it for their own processors. It would be prohibitive model for the hardware guys to have those who buy their components to be responsible for all the drivers. There are no generic drivers for a QNX/Android setup so that would incur additional costs to both BB and licensing.

Sorry to **** in. My son rooted a Galaxy tab, and now we can't update it to Lollipop, can't update the BHTV app, etc because it recognizes it as being rooted. Now after he tinkered with it, He hasn't been able to put it back (unroot). Or at least He indicates it being difficult.

I know this is for "superusers" and should have not been tampered with, but, any ideas, or links to repair it?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Witmen

Can you provide some examples of this? I've rooted a lot of Android devices and I've never encountered any broken manufactures apps or functions.

Have you ever owned a rooted Android device? I'm guessing no by what you just said.

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Originally Posted by Ment

Samsung doesn't write drivers from scratch tho, it would be more precise that they modify drivers from the hardware component manufacturers just like they pay for an ARM license and modify it for their own processors. It would be prohibitive model for the hardware guys to have those who buy their components to be responsible for all the drivers. There are no generic drivers for a QNX/Android setup so that would incur additional costs to both BB and licensing.

Ahh, didn't know that. But it would make sense ARM supplies something. Yeah, this would increase cost.

Originally Posted by bb_uzer

Sorry to **** in. My son rooted a Galaxy tab, and now we can't update it to Lollipop, can't update the BHTV app, etc because it recognizes it as being rooted. Now after he tinkered with it, He hasn't been able to put it back (unroot). Or at least He indicates it being difficult.

I know this is for "superusers" and should have not been tampered with, but, any ideas, or links to repair it?

Thanks.





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Have you tried the unroot option in SuperSU? If you don't see that option, update SuperSU.

I haven't used a Samsung Galaxy device or a OTA update in a long time, but SuperSU has an unroot option which should take the device back to being able to install OTA updates. Once updated, you'd have to re-root if you still want it.



Another option is to flash the update. There is an app by chainfire (the maker of SuperSu) called Mobile ODIN. It is available from Google Play and is able to flash firmware straight from the device itself. It is made for people who have rooted Samsung Galaxy devices and do not want to flash firmware manually. You just download the firmware files to the device and Mobile ODIN will flash them.

If it was me, I'd just flash the update manually, but Mobile ODIN is a great option if you don't want to take the time to learn how.

Does the device have a custom recovery? If so, boot into your recovery, make a full back up and then transfer the back up off of the device before you do anything.

Feel free to shoot me a PM if you need more help.

Originally Posted by bb_uzer

Sorry to **** in. My son rooted a Galaxy tab, and now we can't update it to Lollipop, can't update the BHTV app, etc because it recognizes it as being rooted. Now after he tinkered with it, He hasn't been able to put it back (unroot). Or at least He indicates it being difficult.

I know this is for "superusers" and should have not been tampered with, but, any ideas, or links to repair it?

Thanks.





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In general you go flash the stock rom back into the device, I believe Odin is the utility for your device. Might be better if you go into the device specific forum for that model in XDA or in Android Central forum for Galaxy Tabs and read up there.

Originally Posted by rthonpm

So popular that BlackBerry outsells them...

OnePlus has less than 500 employees

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll give it a go.

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Originally Posted by cgk

This just raises all the usual questions

* if this secure kernel is so valuable why did all the tyre-kickers pass on BBRY when it was for sale?
* Someone's going to say "security!!" - if that is the case, why does *even to enterprise who put a focus on security* BB10 handsets sell in the low hundred thousands - someone is going to say advertising but enterprise customers know what it is and what it does... and they still pass.
* Since android has sold like gangbusters without this and bb10 has flopped and every phone ever sold with it has bombed, what is the business (not security) driver to make this move?

All the technical conversations are a smoke-screen - why is a company that has a successful business model going to fiddle with that to integrate in aspects of a model that has failed? It doesn't pass the smell test.

I think the answer to your question is mutual benefit. Google has nothing to lose by using QNX as long as it's only on BlackBerry devices. You see, from a contractual standpoint, I can see them telling BlackBerry that they can use Play Services and switch the kernels as long as they get a cut of any profit. BlackBerry does all the work, takes all of the risk. However, with the Android name on it, coupled with the promise security, BlackBerry stands to profit just as much if not more.

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Originally Posted by snowsquirrel

If the BB were to license QNX kernel for a secure version of Android, I would guess it would be phone makers that would pay licensing. i.e., Samsung. Samsung would also be on the hook for writing drivers, just like they are already on the hook to write drivers to for Linux. Given that both OS's are POSIX compliant, and share a common ancestor, this isn't like writing a driver for windows, then writing one for linux.

QNX Neutrino is POSIX certified whereas Linux and Android are (mostly) POSIX complient. They don't share a comon ancestor at all.

Originally Posted by Richard Buckley

QNX Neutrino is POSIX certified whereas Linux and Android are (mostly) POSIX complient. They don't share a comon ancestor at all.

Yeah I guess I should have conditioned my statements with 'loosely' or 'kind of', I forgot how literal people can be.

So not 100% POSIX for each. Linux was written as an academic project to have a free verson of Unix. Qnx feels pretty darn similar to Unix in a lot of ways, in fact they say so themselves in their docs. Yes neither are Unix, neither are even forks of Unix.

So for those that need to hear it, Richard Buckly is 100% correct.

Is there a factually-based argument indicating what the benefit of replacing the Linux base of Android with QNX might be? Does the Linux-based system on which the Android Runtime operates have vulnerabilities that QNX does not have? If so, I get the point. If not, you could probably change the underlying OS and still have a vulnerable system.

Originally Posted by mad_mdx

What's the advantage of rooting to the average user?
Your average usage has no clue what rooting is, and when presented with the downsides they wouldn't risk it

The problem I believe is that there have been some exploits that allowed hackers to remotely root the phone for you.

3 years old but it proves the point:
https://threatpost.com/new-android-m...e-040412/76405

Imagine a change that makes all your phones unrootable. It is a security issue!

Originally Posted by TheBirdDog

Any takers?

If BlackBerry has actually been allowed to secure Android by replacing the microkernel, why wouldn't Google use this in all future incarnations of Android. That could happen and it would be the materialization of QNX as the "ace in the hole." If this is the case, BlackBerry will have just 'secured' their own future. Methinks it might be a very good time to buy shares in the company again...

I don't know if you know this but QNX is openSource and is available to everyone to do whatever they want.
So even if Google does use QNX Kernel, although it is highly unlikely, BlackBerry won't be getting any money for it.

Originally Posted by TheBirdDog

Perhaps not... but, depending on how well they can execute and integrate Android, perhaps that will be the next BlackBerry that we love.

No I DON'T think so. Never wanted an Android phone before why would I want one now?

Originally Posted by kfh227

The problem I believe is that there have been some exploits that allowed hackers to remotely root the phone for you.

3 years old but it proves the point:
https://threatpost.com/new-android-m...e-040412/76405

Imagine a change that makes all your phones unrootable. It is a security issue!

Its getting harder to root Android all the time and even some Verizon models have resisted root until now despite bounties worth thousands of dollars. BB will lock the bootloader and put its version of KNOX on it plus the latest security patches from M, add any additional patches and the phone will be in consumer hands in a few months. No need to expend tremendous resources for a non-Google approved solution that fragments Android for the target market which is consumers and general enterprise.

BB will probably hang on to BB10 for regulated enterprise as it has has no need for the runtime.

Originally Posted by dejanh

most likely it will be very much a regular Android device, with minimal, if any changes beyond just the BlackBerry experience suite of apps

While many probably agree with you here, I remain optimistic due to the fact that Chen has said he is open to releasing an android device only if he can secure it. How can he go on record to say that, then not follow through? I think he will use the android platform to show the capabilities of BlackBerry on both a software and hardware front, to gain more brand awareness and to boost the profile of the company. Details of how or why google would allow this is beyond me, but I have a feeling they're going to deliver. As with everyone else, I can't wait to see what happens.

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