[Superfly_FR]

If he pulls this off, I've already promised $100 to a worthy charity on here - I'll also send up a "I was wrong about everything thread" where people can publically (metaphorically) throw tomatos at me.

I know you're a fair dude No tomatoes for me.

Back on topic :

What OP considers here is probably and IMHO the most contrarian yet the only way Chen can turn his words into action. What I heard is him stating the following (not quoting, summarizing) :

1. We need handset to achieve our outermost important security differentiator : control everything from the device to the back-end. It's not a costly mistress, it's an operational cost we have to reduce to the max, hopefully near or under zero.
2. Our DNA IS security and unless we can fit another OS (Android) to match our "end to end security" there's no chance we go that way.
3 As of date (a few months ago) we've not found how to do that. (note: "found", not succeeded)
4. Our business is now software, IoT, licensing and enterprise focused. Sorry Joes, we will eventually be back full force some times in the near future (scale : quarters, not to say years).

Now, there's reality and the current shape/situation of BlackBerry :
1. They reduced drastically the workforce. Yet, they never stopped to elaborate that this was also a re-allocation of workforces from HW division to SW division. I've recently read an article where the author (a buyout candidate) stated that 7K people for the HW alone is not - by any means - sustainable. This gives you estimated metrics of the 'available tank'.
2. They do have cash and keep piling in quarter after quarters ... at the expense of EPS and stock value (?). There's a reason for that: they buy external growth (acquisitions) while sustaining operational power.
3. BlackBerry is currently a tiny player - financially Wise - if we compare to the big two (add market share in the tiny) , the Chinese crowd and MSFT.
4. BlackBerry owns what others don't : an IRL proven security model and the matching underlying core implementation (i.e: HW locked devices), network (say NOC for simplification) and back-end (BES12). All set. Ready to go. No competitor.

So, what do I shake from that (please note that's my very personal thoughts and nowhere anything "someone familiar with the matter" told me. Take it for what it is: 100% speculative or, underlying expectation. Salt it, a lot) :

1. They cannot jump ship neither for HW than BB10. Not now. This would kill a massive amount of revenues.
2. Developing, maintaining and enhancing two proprietary OSes seems unrealistic given their current work power.
3. Neutrino (call it QNX if you want to) is a very low-level layer. Basically (that's over simplistic) its role is to manage inputs/outputs and how the hardware and the software work together. A set of instructions defined with rules (POSIX) that you might want to compare to a language like English or ... Spanish . Don't qualify it "easy", it's a masterpiece where keywords are performance, reliability and , guess what, security. It is "scalable" : this means it can handle various HW configurations and only manage what is needed to fulfill performance and reliability.

Let's stop here for a while.
I believe we could be misleading if we only consider the smartphones HW business. It's 2015 and pretty much everything is connected, they even connect toothbrushes ... and this trend is just day 1. Today, we're using gadgets we can compare to first gen camcorders; in 10 years they will be considered as fossil.
Wanna talk QNX ? You cannot wipe IoT. Anything QNX will offer will have a direct implication in this area, because it's where the market goes, where the $Billions are.
Google is a "monster" that - for most - have little to no interest for BlackBerry.
Still, their operating system is a security strainer (don't shoot me A.C guys !) unless over-layered with "security suites and containers" (again, simplistic) and back-end software. Point is : Google offers Android for work but that's only one part of the equation. And given the deep pockets and engineering power they have, if they didn't succeed making it secure (kicked by serious expertises) it's because they have a real problem : core isn't built with security as rule #1.

Interlude
As a BlackBerry Elite (social), I often promote BES to my business contacts. Lately, I made the junction between a close friend and BlackBerry in the context of the creation of an enterprise, dealing with mass storage (can't be more specific here). At first, the co-CEO sniled (sarcastic grin smile) at me ("we want to build 3.0 not 80's technology") when I talked about BES/Watchdox opportunity. But the appointment was made and when we debriefed he told me : " WTF this [BES and all] does not sell like hotcakes ? I deal with the biggest CTOs and all I've heard matches with their fundamental problems but NONE have BlackBerry in mind. How crazy is that ?". [I pass for my answer]
A few weeks later, they're in the process of hiring their (high profile) CTO and, in the interviews, mention BES/Watchdox as a possible opportunity. They also had 4 sniles (sarcastic grin smile) ... at best. But in the second round, candidates had done their due diligence and grabbed infos about it. There was no snile anymore, there was excitement.
We can all measure that : until you actually know (use) a BB10 device, you have no idea of the "pros"; only the mainstream "game over" sentiment is prevailing, summing up the "cons" in a single statement (as for the BBRY stock, BTW). Same goes with other goodies BlackBerry has to offer.

Bottom line
The latest partnerships with Samsung (HW, Knox) Cisco (unknown), Intel (automotive) and the enrollment in Google work program plus the acquisitions may have raised an interest that was nowhere to be seen before.
All of them share the same ambition to fingerprint enterprises and conquer the IoT space, either with devices, controllers, networks and back-ends.
Shall it be possible to upgrade their devices security at the lower level, no one would reasonably believe they'll ignore it. Whatever the price, it's pocket money for them (yes, incl. buyout). For Samy, it's about brand adoption (from the fridge to the smartphone) and interoperability. For Google, it's about ecosystem. For both, it's about enterprise and competitive advantage against Apple.
OHA ? It's led by king Google and what king desire is law.
The real problem is how this could be technically implemented so that it'll be transparent for users and manufacturers. There's indeed a huge work to be made, especially to deal with - say - processors drivers (did I mention Intel/QNX partnership for the automotive ?).

Chen is dealing with a 10.000 parts puzzle. He's been sorting them by colors and shapes and has set all the outlines: BlackBerry's playfield. From one against all the others he patiently built openness, cross-platform and stronger relationships, bringing the interest to BlackBerry technology where there was close to none.

Where do you go from there ?
Well, you decide. As for me, I'm still convinced (Google's) Android as such is not an answer to current problems nor can it fit with actual BlackBerry structure and resources, not to mention competitors. Only a massive change can match the requirements of such a revolution and I must say - as of date - only OP's supposition is close to meet my "yeah, why not ?".
I'm aware this is technically disputable and I don't even pretend I could sustain a technical discussion with some of our high grade contributors here, nor inject the "hypervisor" as a magic key: to be frank, we don't have the slightest idea of what it is, not even its purpose.
But at the end of the day my modest experience in IT (->1991) returns forever the same statement : you cannot secure what is not secured by design; you can only play a race against attackers and accept defeat, day after day. So the solution is "under" or at least "inside" ... not "over". Unless you choose the "secure enough" clan.


P.S: If you've read all the above, you're brave: thanks ! Sorry for all the over simplistic technical approaches, my funky language ... I guess I also had to write it down to try to sort this out
P.S(2) : CGK, if this happens ... your $100 party drinks will be on me but please note the $200 ones will be on you

[kfh227]

Its getting harder to root Android all the time and even some Verizon models have resisted root until now despite bounties worth thousands of dollars. BB will lock the bootloader and put its version of KNOX on it plus the latest security patches from M, add any additional patches and the phone will be in consumer hands in a few months. No need to expend tremendous resources for a non-Google approved solution that fragments Android for the target market which is consumers and general enterprise.

BB will probably hang on to BB10 for regulated enterprise as it has has no need for the runtime.

How would it fragment anything?

[dvarnai]

I know you're a fair dude No tomatoes for me.

Back on topic :

What OP considers here is probably and IMHO the most contrarian yet the only way Chen can turn his words into action. What I heard is him stating the following (not quoting, summarizing) :

1. We need handset to achieve our outermost important security differentiator : control everything from the device to the back-end. It's not a costly mistress, it's an operational cost we have to reduce to the max, hopefully near or under zero.
2. Our DNA IS security and unless we can fit another OS (Android) to match our "end to end security" there's no chance we go that way.
3 As of date (a few months ago) we've not found how to do that. (note: "found", not succeeded)
4. Our business is now software, IoT, licensing and enterprise focused. Sorry Joes, we will eventually be back full force some times in the near future (scale : quarters, not to say years).

Now, there's reality and the current shape/situation of BlackBerry :
1. They reduced drastically the workforce. Yet, they never stopped to elaborate that this was also a re-allocation of workforces from HW division to SW division. I've recently read an article where the author (a buyout candidate) stated that 7K people for the HW alone is not - by any means - sustainable. This gives you estimated metrics of the 'available tank'.
2. They do have cash and keep piling in quarter after quarters ... at the expense of EPS and stock value (?). There's a reason for that: they buy external growth (acquisitions) while sustaining operational power.
3. BlackBerry is currently a tiny player - financially Wise - if we compare to the big two (add market share in the tiny) , the Chinese crowd and MSFT.
4. BlackBerry owns what others don't : an IRL proven security model and the matching underlying core implementation (i.e: HW locked devices), network (say NOC for simplification) and back-end (BES12). All set. Ready to go. No competitor.

So, what do I shake from that (please note that's my very personal thoughts and nowhere anything "someone familiar with the matter" told me. Take it for what it is: 100% speculative or, underlying expectation. Salt it, a lot) :

1. They cannot jump ship neither for HW than BB10. Not now. This would kill a massive amount of revenues.
2. Developing, maintaining and enhancing two proprietary OSes seems unrealistic given their current work power.
3. Neutrino (call it QNX if you want to) is a very low-level layer. Basically (that's over simplistic) its role is to manage inputs/outputs and how the hardware and the software work together. A set of instructions defined with rules (POSIX) that you might want to compare to a language like English or ... Spanish . Don't qualify it "easy", it's a masterpiece where keywords are performance, reliability and , guess what, security. It is "scalable" : this means it can handle various HW configurations and only manage what is needed to fulfill performance and reliability.

Let's stop here for a while.
I believe we could be misleading if we only consider the smartphones HW business. It's 2015 and pretty much everything is connected, they even connect toothbrushes ... and this trend is just day 1. Today, we're using gadgets we can compare to first gen camcorders; in 10 years they will be considered as fossil.
Wanna talk QNX ? You cannot wipe IoT. Anything QNX will offer will have a direct implication in this area, because it's where the market goes, where the $Billions are.
Google is a "monster" that - for most - have little to no interest for BlackBerry.
Still, their operating system is a security strainer (don't shoot me A.C guys !) unless over-layered with "security suites and containers" (again, simplistic) and back-end software. Point is : Google offers Android for work but that's only one part of the equation. And given the deep pockets and engineering power they have, if they didn't succeed making it secure (kicked by serious expertises) it's because they have a real problem : core isn't built with security as rule #1.

Interlude
As an BlackBerry Elite (social), I often promote BES to my business contacts. Lately, I made the junction between a close friend and BlackBerry in the context of the creation of an enterprise, dealing with mass storage (can't be more specific here). At first, the co-CEO sniled at me ("we want to build 3.0 not 80's technology") when I talked about BES/Watchdox opportunity. But the appointment was made and when we debriefed he told me : " WTF this [BES and all] does not sell like hotcakes ? I deal with the biggest CTOs and all I've heard matches with their fundamental problems but NONE have BlackBerry in mind. How crazy is that ?". [I pass for my answer]
A few weeks later, they're in the process of hiring their (high profile) CTO and, in the interviews, mention BES/Watchdox as a possible opportunity. They also had 4 sniles ... at best. But in the second round, candidates had done their due diligence and grabbed infos about it. There was no snile anymore, there was excitement.
We can all measure that : until you actually know (use) a BB10 device, you have no idea of the "pros"; only the mainstream "game over" sentiment is prevailing, summing up the "cons" in a single statement (as for the BBRY stock, BTW). Same goes with other goodies BlackBerry has to offer.

Bottom line
The latest partnerships with Samsung (HW, Knox) Cisco (unknown), Intel (automotive) and the enrollment in Google work program plus the acquisitions may have raised an interest that was nowhere to be seen before.
All of them share the same ambition to fingerprint enterprises and conquer the IoT space, either with devices, controllers, networks and back-ends.
Shall it be possible to upgrade their devices security at the lower level, no one would reasonably believe they'll ignore it. Whatever the price, it's pocket money for them (yes, incl. buyout). For Samy, it's about brand adoption (from the fridge to the smartphone) and interoperability. For Google, it's about ecosystem. For both, it's about enterprise and competitive advantage against Apple.
OHA ? It's led by king Google and what king desire is law.
The real problem is how this could be technically implemented so that it'll be transparent for users and manufacturers. There's indeed a huge work to be made, especially to deal with - say - processors drivers (did I mention Intel/QNX partnership for the automotive ?).

Chen is dealing with a 10.000 parts puzzle. He's been sorting them by colors and shapes and has set all the outlines: BlackBerry's playfield. From one against all the others he patiently built openness, cross-platform and stronger relationships, bringing the interest to BlackBerry technology where there was close to none.

Where do you go from there ?
Well, you decide. As for me, I'm still convinced (Google's) Android as such is not an answer to current problems nor can it fit with actual BlackBerry structure and resources, not to mention competitors. Only a massive change can match the requirements of such a revolution and I must say - as of date - only OP's supposition is close to meet my "yeah, why not ?".
I'm aware this is technically disputable and I don't even pretend I could sustain a technical discussion with some of our high grade contributors here, nor inject the "hypervisor" as a magic key: to be frank, we don't have the slightest idea of what it is, not even its purpose.
But at the end of the day my modest experience in IT (->1991) returns forever the same statement : you cannot secure what is not secured by design; you can only play a race against attackers and accept defeat, day after day. So the solution is "under" or at least "inside" ... not "over". Unless you choose the "secure enough" clan.


P.S: If you've read all the above, you're brave: thanks ! Sorry for all the over simplistic technical approaches, my funky language ... I guess I also had to write it down to try to sort this out
P.S(2) : CGK, if this happens ... your $100 party drinks will be on me but please note the $200 ones will be on you

whats a snile?

[Superfly_FR]

whats a snile?

Like a sarcastic grin smile.
oops, did I invent this word ? Thanks for pointing it out : post edited.

[Ment]

How would it fragment anything?

You've created two separate development branches, QNX kernel maintained by BB and Android kernel maintained by Google with contributions from OHA and others. To quote Andy Rubin a former Google head honcho during the Aliyun OS running Android apps fiasco that Google shut down.

So if you want to benefit from the Android ecosystem, then make the choice to be compatible. [It's] easy, free, and we'll even help you out. But if you don't want to be compatible, then don't expect help from OHA members that are all working to support and build a unified Android ecosystem.

You're never going to get Google's blessing on this project which is why it will never see the light of day even if BB is experimenting in Waterloo.

[Richard Buckley]

Yeah I guess I should have conditioned my statements with 'loosely' or 'kind of', I forgot how literal people can be.

So not 100% POSIX for each. Linux was written as an academic project to have a free verson of Unix. Qnx feels pretty darn similar to Unix in a lot of ways, in fact they say so themselves in their docs. Yes neither are Unix, neither are even forks of Unix.

So for those that need to hear it, Richard Buckly is 100% correct.

For the kind of discussion being held on this thread it is important. BTW QNX Neutrino is POSIX certified, so in that respect it is 100% POSIX. Since POSIX is a certification standard, in many respects full certification is the only meaningful state. However, being mostly compliant does make porting POSIX software to Android, or porting Android to a POSIX certified OS somewhat easier.

Z10STL100-3/10.3.2.2252 SR 10.3.2.2168

[passport1]

Could someone list features that are secure in QNX but not in Android??



Thanks!

Posted via CB10

[Richard Buckley]

Is there a factually-based argument indicating what the benefit of replacing the Linux base of Android with QNX might be? Does the Linux-based system on which the Android Runtime operates have vulnerabilities that QNX does not have? If so, I get the point. If not, you could probably change the underlying OS and still have a vulnerable system.

Very astute observations. I could probably give you a laundry list of Linux kernel vulnerabilities that QNX does not have, and vice versa. But it would be meaningless. The Jeep Uconnect system that was recently and publicly hacked was running on top of QNX. QNX wasn't hacked, but the security vulnerability of Uconnect was enough to let the hackers do what they did. Similarly a bog standard Android running on a QNX kernel would bring with it many Android security issues. It would be somewhat mitigated by not having a Linux kernel, but shimming QNX under Android would not magically solve all the security issues. This is probably why QNX runs courses on how to write secure Android applications. It is definitely why BlackBerry teamed up with Trend Micro to provide BlackBerry Guardian.



Z10STL100-3/10.3.2.2252 SR 10.3.2.2168

[bhoqeem]

android blahblahblahblah android buhbahbihboh
Meh

[mrfreeze]

I got this from a reliable source!!! It's true. A switcher menu between BB10, Android and Hypervisor.

Tell all of your friends and media.





Posted via CB10

[Mecca EL]

I got this from a reliable source!!! It's true. A switcher menu between BB10, Android and Hypervisor.

Tell all of your friends and media.





Posted via CB10

I just drove past a car with Hypervisor. Supposedly made it more fuel efficient.

[cgk]

Please please someone code a 'choose your own adventure' based around this idea

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk

[sentimentGX4]

Lets face some facts.... most users be it Android or IOS want to root their device for one simple reason... you can run pirated software... yes.. yes.. I know.. you can tinker more.. remove bloatware... blah blah blah... do not have that option on the IOS to any extent... yet jailbreaking is wildly popular... wonder why???

You bring up a very interesting point about pirated software. Though, due to the popularity of the freemium/in-app purchase model, I don't think I agree with you exactly. No individuals I know are interested in pirated software (on their phone). There isn't much to pirate.

What I see a lot is, aside from removing bloat and flashing the OS, rooting the phone is useful for downloading other illicit/gray area apps. These apps are not pirated software, though, they may do something against Google Play ToS.

For example, a root app could be an app that helps you hack a game.

[early2bed]

Remember when HP bought Palm and was trying to launch a successful webOS smartphones and tablets? When that didn't work, people on webOSNation speculated that HP would use webOS to run printers. There was even talk of how HP could install webOS on every PC they shipped - as Windows bloatware. Never mind that nobody was asking to have webOS installed on their PC.

What is it about carrying a hammer that makes everything look like a nail? QNX doesn't have anything to offer any current or future Android devices. Just because it's not a big hit for BlackBerry devices doesn't mean it's bound to be useful somewhere else.

[kfh227]

Smartphone Malware Planted In Popular Apps Pre-sale - Slashdot

Smartphone Malware Planted In Popular Apps Pre-sale

An anonymous reader writes with news from The Stack that makes it a little harder to scoff at malware on phones as being largely the fruit of dodgy sideloaded software, game cracks, et cetera. They report that even phones marketed as brand new, from well-known brands like Lenovo and Xiaomi, have been tampered with and "infected prior to sale with intelligent malware disguised in popular apps such as Facebook." (To U.S. buyers, those makers may be slightly obscure as cellphone vendors; the scheme this article addresses involves handsets sold by vendors in Europe and Asia, involving more than 20 different handset types.)

[ToniCipriani]

What is it about carrying a hammer that makes everything look like a nail? QNX doesn't have anything to offer any current or future Android devices. Just because it's not a big hit for BlackBerry devices doesn't mean it's bound to be useful somewhere else.

You mean "isn't bound"?

QNX is used extensively in other areas like car infotainment. Ford just moved from Windows to QNX.

[Tre Lawrence]

Remember when HP bought Palm and was trying to launch a successful webOS smartphones and tablets? When that didn't work, people on webOSNation speculated that HP would use webOS to run printers. There was even talk of how HP could install webOS on every PC they shipped - as Windows bloatware. Never mind that nobody was asking to have webOS installed on their PC.

What is it about carrying a hammer that makes everything look like a nail? QNX doesn't have anything to offer any current or future Android devices. Just because it's not a big hit for BlackBerry devices doesn't mean it's bound to be useful somewhere else.

It is eerily similar.

[cgk]

It is eerily similar.

I remember at the time when I suggested that Leo A was making this stuff up on the spot and it would never happened that I was 'negative' and 'lacked vision' - the WebOS faithful lapped it up.

going back to QNX and the chances of it being the core of future android - it's instructive to head over glassdoor and read the last six months of comments - constants are unclear and constantly changing directions and instructions, vague senior management, being starved of resources etc etc - coupled with some very specific comments about out of date and poorly designed developer tools...

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I know you're a fair dude No tomatoes for me.

Back on topic :

What OP considers here is probably and IMHO the most contrarian yet the only way Chen can turn his words into action. What I heard is him stating the following (not quoting, summarizing) :.....

So the solution is "under" or at least "inside" ... not "over"[/B]. Unless you choose the "secure enough" clan.

Sometimes the simple solution is the only solution....

If QNX and the BB10 teams can do all this coding in the time that Chen has given them.... that will be a miracle.
If BlackBerry can get Google and the OHA to certify this for GPS... that will be a miracle.
If the resulting device is stable, performs well and is easy to use and priced competitively with other Android devices.... that will be a miracle.

So at least in the smartphone sectors... Chen will now be a Saint.

[Superfly_FR]

Sometimes the simple solution is the only solution....

If QNX and the BB10 teams can do all this coding in the time that Chen has given them.... that will be a miracle.
If BlackBerry can get Google and the OHA to certify this for GPS... that will be a miracle.
If the resulting device is stable, performs well and is easy to use and priced competitively with other Android devices.... that will be a miracle.

So at least in the smartphone sectors... Chen will now be a Saint.

IF something is done in this area, by nature, it won't be BlackBerry alone.
Add Samy and or Google. Say BlackBerry focuses on core and other(s) on implementation and testing (I'd bet it's the harder part).
When I write massive change, I mean MASSIVE
Can't be single operated. At least not by BlackBerry if we consider the supposed time frame. Unless they dig something that was plan B for years...
Again, that's not about how. But what. Stock Android, forked or plain Google or... something we can't figure yet, like OP.

Posted via CB10

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

IF something is done in this area, by nature, it won't be BlackBerry alone.
Add Samy and or Google. Say BlackBerry focuses on core and other(s) on implementation and testing (I'd bet it's the harder part).
When I write massive change, I mean MASSIVE
Can't be single operated. At least not by BlackBerry if we consider the supposed time frame. Unless they dig something that was plan B for years...
Again, that's not about how. But what. Stock Android, forked or plain Google or... something we can't figure yet, like OP.

Posted via CB10

Still think simple is all Chen can afford right now....

But maybe he'll surprise us ALL!

[keithhackneysmullet]

I just wanted to make sure I posted in this thread so I can bump it in a few months when all of these delusions come crashing back to Earth.

Posted via CB10

[cgk]

I just wanted to make sure I posted in this thread so I can bump it in a few months when all of these delusions come crashing back to Earth.

Posted via CB10

You think its bad now - wait until the forum starts to fill up with

• "What are your favourite android apps?"
• "How do I remove the blackberry experience suite from my Venice?"
• "Shifted from BB10 to Android Venice and loving it!"

and long-term members say "take that trash to Android central" and the response is "but it's a blackberry!"

[TheBirdDog]

I just wanted to make sure I posted in this thread so I can bump it in a few months when all of these delusions come crashing back to Earth.

Posted via CB10

It's not that delusional when you think about it. Nobody can say whether or not it would actually happen, whether that be because they were unable to negotiate a deal with Google, or it would result in unrealistic licensing issues, or whatever the reason may be.

That doesn't change the fact that it is a good idea and has to be one that people are thinking about. It's really not about just being a BlackBerry die-hard. In fact, it is somewhat admitting defeat in the BlackBerry as we know it, as it could (and likely would) spell the end of BB10, if it were to happen. And yes, there is still a good chance that could happen either way...

However, if you really listen to what Chen has been saying for months (or even from the beginning), it would be perfectly in line with what he is trying to do. He wants to create end to end security. He also wants to have BlackBerry be successful and it's obvious by now that the smartphone market is not giving them much shoulder room to do this in. They need to start reaching other markets and find a new playing field and the way to do this is through developing partnerships. The same way to ensure that these partnerships are beneficial to BlackBerry is to have them run as deep as possible.

When it comes to the IoT world, it's going to be about who can better integrate their product into as many other products as possible. From this point of view, I would say that Android is the leader by far and they also have Samsung as a leading manufacturer of just about any piece of tech you would ever want to integrate. Google and Samsung = great partnership. The flaw for them would be the vulnerability of the Android system at its core and by nature. It's like trying to make a perfect loaf of bread with a dented bread pan. Every batch you make is still going to have a dent in it because of the flaw in the core.

In comes BlackBerry as a player. Already developing a relationship with Samsung and Knox. Already having much familiarity with Android having the runtime baked into their devices and now with a device running Android natively. BlackBerry still does have a lot to offer when it comes to a secure core. A brand new bread pan, if you will. When IoT really starts to take off, the winner will not only be the first one to gain the most momentum but also the one with the best reputation for security. One big hack that causes damage, will really hurt. So security is going to become more and more an important thing.

Also, partnerships are important in the IoT world because people are going to want as integrated of an experience as possible. Unless they own Apple Everything already, Android is in a position to take the early lead. However, like I said, if they fumble and someone turns the sprinklers on in the Whitehouse because they hacked into their system, people are going to want to know how it happened and where the vulnerability was. Google has to have and want as secure of a system as possible and this is where BlackBerry has something of value for them.

It's easy to overthink this, just as it is with anything. And even Chen has said that getting things in a row with Google Play has been a thousand times more complicated than anyone can fairly imagine. But it is a simple idea that makes sense and, with the right players involved, COULD happen. BlackBerry is done securing emails for people, they've moved on (well, ok they still do this and probably always will but they are focusing on different things now and need to in order to continue to grow). This would be the most logical shot for them to take and have the largest impact. And it might be the only way to grow the brand back into a leading company again.

The cards are already dealt; it's just a matter of whether or not the chip leader will fold and let BlackBerry win a hand which would get them back in the game again. Otherwise, they will keep wittling BlackBerry down until it's all over.

[Phone Guy 4567]

You think its bad now - wait until the forum starts to fill up with

• "What are your favourite android apps?"
• "How do I remove the blackberry experience suite from my Venice?"
• "Shifted from BB10 to Android Venice and loving it!"

and long-term members say "take that trash to Android central" and the response is "but it's a blackberry!"

Not to mention how long-term members will trash talk Chen and he will go from hero to zero instantly, especially if the BB experience on Android isn't even close to what it is on BB10.