Built for Business - Learn more about BlackBerry KEY2
09-25-15 02:53 PM
28 12
tools
  1. cbzeduser's Avatar
    I am asking seriously, here, as someone who has some software knowledge, but not so much hardware knowledge.

    I know that two different software builds would require more resources being allocated to testing...

    But given that the device probably started out as a BB10-compatible offering, I would imagine that the level of effort required to get BB10 running on it would have been substantially less than what was required to port many of BB10's core functionality and apps over to Android.

    As a Z10 owner, I have to say that although BB10 has its shortcomings, I much prefer it to both Android and iPhone. What I would really like to see is a BB10 device with a more comprehensive Android runtime, not a Android device with BB10 apps on it...

    But it seems as though there is really no BB10 device upgrade path for me.

    What is the rationale for not getting maximum leverage out of given hardware build by offering different OS options?
    bb247365 likes this.
    09-25-15 11:17 AM
  2. Plazmic Flame's Avatar
    My theory was that based on how good the Priv does and based on demand from the government, police/security departments, etc; we might see a BB10 Priv made, which would be sold directly from shopBlackBerry
    ayngling and Yatezy like this.
    09-25-15 11:21 AM
  3. chazingshadow's Avatar
    Not possible. It's as simple as that!

    Posted via CB10
    09-25-15 11:23 AM
  4. brookie229's Avatar
    Good question-and I'm not sure of the reason but my guess is that Google Play Services and legal issues surrounding that plays the most important part of this. I am sure other posters will explain this more in depth. If there was any way to do this, it would seem logical.
    09-25-15 11:23 AM
  5. keithhackneysmullet's Avatar
    Probably legal and customer service reasons for not having choose your own os. It was ridiculous that forum members like Thunderbuck actually thought choose your own os would be a reality. Google wouldn't let BlackBerry do it for one and imagine the nightmare of trying to get a choose your os phone set up at att or Verizon .

    There are no technical reasons the hardware in the Priv is familiar hardware to Android and BB10.

    Posted via CB10
    09-25-15 11:24 AM
  6. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    Adjusting BB10, dev tools and apps to the new hardware would be too expensive.
    09-25-15 11:24 AM
  7. bidirectional's Avatar
    I'm guessing they're still busy porting BB10 to 64 bit ARM.
    09-25-15 11:26 AM
  8. app_Developer's Avatar
    Building drivers for new hardware is a significant expense. Qualcomm and Google already do this for Android/Linux. To do this for BB10/QNX, BB would have to do the work themselves or pay someone to do it.

    That's a lot to ask for a small number of devices sold.
    brookie229 likes this.
    09-25-15 11:27 AM
  9. cbzeduser's Avatar
    My theory was that based on how good the Priv does and based on demand from the government, police/security departments, etc; we might see a BB10 Priv made, which would be sold directly from shopBlackBerry
    That's what I don't understand. Couldn't they just use the same exact hardware device, but just flash BB10 on it instead of Android? It doesn't seem like they would even need to make another device.

    If I have a standard PC, I can load Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 10, Linux, or BSD onto that machine without changing any of the hardware.

    So why wouldn't Blackberry release a version of BB10 that can run on the Priv? If they are concerned about the costs associated with releasing multiple hardware devices, that would be a way to minimize their hardware risk, while providing an upgrade path for BB10 users.
    09-25-15 11:29 AM
  10. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    I'm guessing they're still busy porting BB10 to 64 bit ARM.
    I'm guessing there will never be a BB10 64bit ARM

    Couldn't they just use the same exact hardware device, but just flash BB10 on it instead of Android? It doesn't seem like they would even need to make another device.
    Nope the couldn't just flash BB10 on it, as BB10 isn't ready to run on the new hardware.

    So why wouldn't Blackberry release a version of BB10 that can run on the Priv? If they are concerned about the costs associated with releasing multiple hardware devices, that would be a way to minimize their hardware risk, while providing an upgrade path for BB10 users.
    Priv with Android is an Upgrade path to existing users, too. If you want to stay with BB10: keep your old device as long as it lasts.
    09-25-15 11:33 AM
  11. cbzeduser's Avatar
    I'm guessing they're still busy porting BB10 to 64 bit ARM.
    Ah...

    So the new device is running 64-bit ARM?
    09-25-15 11:36 AM
  12. bidirectional's Avatar
    I'm guessing there will never be a BB10 64bit ARM
    Considering how Classic and Leap use the same chip as Z10 and Q10, that might be right.
    09-25-15 11:37 AM
  13. conite's Avatar
    Building drivers for new hardware is a significant expense. Qualcomm and Google already do this for Android/Linux. To do this for BB10/QNX, BB would have to do the work themselves or pay someone to do it.

    That's a lot to ask for a small number of devices sold.
    Chen specifically confirmed this himself this morning in the earnings call.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    brookie229 and BB-JAM215 like this.
    09-25-15 11:39 AM
  14. cbzeduser's Avatar
    Building drivers for new hardware is a significant expense. Qualcomm and Google already do this for Android/Linux. To do this for BB10/QNX, BB would have to do the work themselves or pay someone to do it.

    That's a lot to ask for a small number of devices sold.
    Not to be an ***, but how expensive could it be, relatively speaking? Presumably Blackberry has engineers already on staff who are familiar with both BB10, and the development of drivers for smartphone components...

    $5 million? $10 million? $15 million?

    Blackberry has like $3 billion in cash...

    They just spent $490 million to buy Good Technology, and they can't scrape together $10 million to write some BB10 drivers for a new phone?
    09-25-15 11:42 AM
  15. mad_mdx's Avatar
    That's what I don't understand. Couldn't they just use the same exact hardware device, but just flash BB10 on it instead of Android? It doesn't seem like they would even need to make another device.

    If I have a standard PC, I can load Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 10, Linux, or BSD onto that machine without changing any of the hardware.

    So why wouldn't Blackberry release a version of BB10 that can run on the Priv? If they are concerned about the costs associated with releasing multiple hardware devices, that would be a way to minimize their hardware risk, while providing an upgrade path for BB10 users.
    This is not true. If you decide to run Linux on a machine you need to have the available drivers for all the hardware to work well. Even windows 10 upgraded devices have some problems if the new drivers aren't installed. ARM is also quite different and a cellphone is somewhat more complicated than a PC in certain ways...

    Furthermore, no part of BlackBerry 10 has the ability to run the 4k resolution of the slider screen, also no SDK has been provided to make apps compatible with that resolution. Maybe we'll see a BlackBerry 10 slider or an upgraded full touch eventually but that depends on whether BlackBerry makes money or not.
    09-25-15 11:56 AM
  16. app_Developer's Avatar
    Not to be an ***, but how expensive could it be, relatively speaking? Presumably Blackberry has engineers already on staff who are familiar with both BB10, and the development of drivers for smartphone components...

    $5 million? $10 million? $15 million?

    Blackberry has like $3 billion in cash...

    They just spent $490 million to buy Good Technology, and they can't scrape together $10 million to write some BB10 drivers for a new phone?
    I would guess it is much more than $10M. And I wouldn't assume BB still has all the engineers they would need to do this.

    It's not about how much money they have, it's about whether they can make money selling a BB10 Priv. If it costs $25M to do the driver development and testing and they sell 1M BB10 Privs, that's $25 per device! That's a big deal.

    If they needed Qualcomm to do the work, it would probably cost 5x that or more. Qualcomm doesn't have time to worry about BB10 when they are busy enough keeping up with all their android vendors.

    People here disagree of course, but I think BB10 is in maintenance mode now and Chen won't spend very much of his $3B on it. Better to invest that money in more profitable parts of the business. That's his job.
    Maxxxpower likes this.
    09-25-15 11:57 AM
  17. conite's Avatar
    From Earnings call:

    QUESTION: Why isn't the Priv being released with option for either BB10 or Android?-1443200183171.jpg

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    09-25-15 12:04 PM
  18. cbzeduser's Avatar
    From Earnings call:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1443200183171.jpg 
Views:	213 
Size:	49.6 KB 
ID:	373039

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    Thanks for the screenshot. I guess that makes sense

    So it looks like it was a financial decision, and BB10 is probably on the way out. Good for Blackberry's stock price, but not so good for me if I like BB10.
    bb247365 likes this.
    09-25-15 12:18 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    Thanks for the screenshot. I guess that makes sense

    So it looks like it was a financial decision, and BB10 is probably on the way out. Good for Blackberry's stock price, but not so good for me if I like BB10.
    At least the Priv strategy offers a glimmer of hope, where none existed with the current path.

    I'm hoping for the best. I don't want to give up my BlackBerry.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    ayngling likes this.
    09-25-15 12:21 PM
  20. chopachain's Avatar
    If this is the case why not launch the SE with android at the same time as the Priv. What have BB to loose? The SE hardware side is already done.
    09-25-15 12:35 PM
  21. conite's Avatar
    if this is the case why not launch the se with android at the same time as the priv. What have bb to loose? The se hardware side is already done.
    Maybe they have other plans for more Android devices if the Priv is successful. They may have found that the Passport form factor or hardware didn't really work well when they were testing.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    Last edited by conite; 09-25-15 at 01:20 PM.
    09-25-15 12:47 PM
  22. anon(870071)'s Avatar
    I am asking seriously, here, as someone who has some software knowledge, but not so much hardware knowledge.

    I know that two different software builds would require more resources being allocated to testing...

    But given that the device probably started out as a BB10-compatible offering, I would imagine that the level of effort required to get BB10 running on it would have been substantially less than what was required to port many of BB10's core functionality and apps over to Android.

    As a Z10 owner, I have to say that although BB10 has its shortcomings, I much prefer it to both Android and iPhone. What I would really like to see is a BB10 device with a more comprehensive Android runtime, not a Android device with BB10 apps on it...

    But it seems as though there is really no BB10 device upgrade path for me.

    What is the rationale for not getting maximum leverage out of given hardware build by offering different OS options?
    Sounds like BlackBerry created hybrid kernal language to blend the best characteristics of both android and bbos10 at least I hope they did.

     вιaсĸвεггч Passport SQW100-1 / 10.3.2.2339 Rogers Wireless Posted via CB 
    09-25-15 01:13 PM
  23. app_Developer's Avatar
    Sounds like BlackBerry created hybrid kernal language to blend the best characteristics of both android and bbos10 at least I hope they did.

     вιaсĸвεггч Passport SQW100-1 / 10.3.2.2339 Rogers Wireless Posted via CB 
    If by "hybrid kernel language" you mean are they running Android on top of QNX? Almost certainly no, because then they would have had to do all the hardware drivers.
    09-25-15 01:23 PM
  24. glwerry's Avatar
    Good question-and I'm not sure of the reason but my guess is that Google Play Services and legal issues surrounding that plays the most important part of this. I am sure other posters will explain this more in depth. If there was any way to do this, it would seem logical.

    I would think that this would be much of the reason, along with the amount of work to get the BB software / features to integrate with Android.
    Some years ago we were running Hewlett-Packard servers with their proprietary MPE operating system. They brought out a Unix line based on the same hardware.
    I had an HP tech tell me that there was only one chip that was different between the two server lines. What is important to note was that there was never any effort to do any "dual boot" or anything like that - the OSs were very different and so was the file structure, etc.
    09-25-15 01:24 PM
  25. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    Oh no, not that QNX/ANdroid hybrid bullsh1t again...
    09-25-15 01:27 PM
28 12

Similar Threads

  1. "BlackBerry better not screw up the pricing..."
    By Section ThirtyOne in forum BlackBerry Priv
    Replies: 216
    Last Post: 10-28-15, 06:35 AM
  2. Chen's "commitment" to BB10
    By BurningPlatform in forum BlackBerry 10 OS
    Replies: 76
    Last Post: 09-28-15, 07:50 AM
  3. Where are high res leaks and full videos?? :D *waiting for them*
    By chrysaurora in forum General BlackBerry Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-27-15, 11:26 PM
  4. "late in the calendar year" 97 days and counting...
    By GoJaysGo in forum General BlackBerry Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-27-15, 08:33 AM
  5. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-25-15, 12:09 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD