1. owczi's Avatar
    I'm trying to stop myself as hard as I can from ranting about the Android move because unfortunately due to the app market it was inevitable. OK, I have to move on, I get it. What I find really baffling is that nearly all Priv reviews (many positive ones) were clearly written by people who have not used BB's previous OSes. They maybe played with BB10 for ten minutes and got lost. If you're talking about productivity in the context of the Priv, clearly you have not used BlackBerry's other phones... BB10 took some speed (of actions, not of apps) and productivity away from BB7 - remember switching between current and last app with alt-blackberry? Remember long-press to password-lock the screen? That and many other details like this went away in BB10, but it was still very quick to get things done. While I want to believe that things will improve, so far, usability wise, I see the Priv as a step backwards, and a lot of it is due to Android itself. Many people point out the Priv Android not being heavily modified as an advantage. I don't. I think the Priv is a half decent Android phone, but a very lousy BlackBerry phone.

    Examples:

    • Frankly, I find the physical keyboard mostly useless. It's mushy with little tactility, but that's due to cost and slide mechanism; fine. But it is merely an extension to the on-screen keyboard - again, due to this being Android. The trackpad feature only allows you to scroll - and not much else. On a BB10 or BB7 device, the trackpad would scroll by means of moving the cursor and intelligently switching to scrolling when reaching screen edge - meaning that when I was browsing e-mails, the trackpad would select the e-mail I scrolled to, so I could only press the trackpad or enter and I was reading it, or press r or l to reply(all). On the Classic I could screen-scroll and then use the trackpad to select the right e-mail. No such luck on the Priv. Even the hub only scrolls the e-mail list, but to select an e-mail, I have to touch the screen. You could also jump between form input fields using the trackpad. "t" and "b" buttons were globally recognised - not anymore. Try quickly scrolling to the top of a long web page in Chrome. I tried the Priv with a Bluetooth mouse - lo and behold, a pointer appeared. I want to test it with a USB or Bluetooth keyboard - if that will let me use the arrow keys in the Hub to move the selection, this will confirm that Priv's keyboard is merely an event pusher, not a full-blown keyboard device.
    • BB10 has a feature that prevents the screen from going to sleep as long as I'm holding the phone (moving it about). On the Priv, the screen will happily go to sleep (and lock) in the middle of me reading a document.
    • BB10 was able to handle multiple keyboard languages *simultaneously*. I'm bi-lingual - I use English and Polish (which has some letters with diacritical marks - ąćęłśżź). On the Classic I had English and Polish selected and it would happily correct both, and place the funky letters in the right places for me. No such luck with Android.
    • The "Android toolbelt". The lack of the "blackberry button" is a huge drawback. I used to laugh at the iOS and Android crowd and how long it took them to write a simple e-mail where they had to do some cuts and pastes and editing (unless they were 13-year-old gamers...). Cut and paste was always two physical clicks away. No such luck on the Priv again, I'm in the same boat as everybody else now. I won't even mention the lack of dedicated call buttons - that's a different story, I'm forgetting that a smartphone is not a phone.
    • After I move the cursor somewhere in an e-mail and paste, I often find it that the keyboard trackpad activates spontaneously and my first keyboard press moves the cursor to a random place and I mess up some random word because, silly me, I expected the cursor to stay where I placed it.
    • Recently my Priv forgot all Wifi networks after a battery drain powerdown.
    • I nearly always listen to music on the Priv - using the Neutron player because it handles a huge library (some 6k songs) smoothly. I used the same (native) app on the Classic. On the Priv, the phone routinely confuses insertion and ejection of the headphone plug: I pause the music (or not), pull the plug, and it starts blasting GG Allin amidst coworkers' confused looks. This is not a problem with Neutron because the event comes from Android. I never, ever had those types of problems on the Classic, never mind Curve. My work has moved to Good Technology for e-mail, so I had to move to Android. Good works on the Classic via Snap, but it's horribly slow. Although Good has been purchased by BB, I think BB10 will die before integration will happen (realistically it's already dead). Before the Priv I used a HTC for some six months, and I never had this headphone issue either - so, this circles back to less modified Android on the Priv.
    • The "wake up screen to notifications" should not apply to sliding out the keyboard when the Priv is (password) locked. Why would I want to open the keyboard if I only wanted to see the notifications? What about a keyboard shortcut to bring up the password screen? OK, an update can fix this.
    • In many places, the UI does not automatically focus on the first input field, so I can't just start typing away, I have to touch the screen.


    I think that given the short time in development, the Priv is still an achievement, and they started delivering on updates - but do you think this stuff will improve, or will it be forgotten along with the whole BB legacy of (the only true) usability? I used to trust my Curves and Bolds and they never failed me. I used to trust my Classic (10.3). The Priv, unfortunately, is high maintenance, and I have to keep it in check all the time, and I don't like that.

    OK, so it was a big Android rant in the end... Anybody else with similar (or different) views?
    nokia4life likes this.
    12-10-15 08:37 AM
  2. Brian Beaudoin's Avatar
    Well said. Android is a cluttered mess compared to BB 10 with a lot of flow removed or so different as to be unrecognizable. Android is a media consumption device while BB 10 is a far more efficient communication tool. One thing the Priv does very well is demonstrate how excellent BB 10 really is

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    12-10-15 08:53 AM
  3. LeeU1911's Avatar
    I don't have the exact experience as yours but somehow I agree. I used to have a Curve then a Bold, now I'm having a Z3 BB10. I've also used iphone and android once in awhile. BBOS was the best. The small things that it offers is extremely useful. BB10 is less than that but still way better for Android and iOS experience. I also plan to get a Priv but after reading your review I feel reluctant to do so.

    Posted via CB10
    12-10-15 08:58 AM
  4. yohannrjm's Avatar
    Well, some of what you wrote is absolutely true - regarding the toolbelt usefulness on the Classic. I loved it! I also hate touching the screen if there's a way to avoid it.

    That said, some of the issues you mention with the Priv are present on the Passport and Q10 too. You can't select anything on the Passport without touching the screen. Similarly, there's no Blackberry button on either of those phones. So they share that with the Priv.

    Secondly, you have to know that a lot of CB users have been claiming that the reason BB10 failed is that BB didn't release an updated all-touch phone. That would eliminate the 'benefits' of the PKB and of course there's no toolbelt.

    Finally, to the second poster who claims that Android is not a productivity platform, I think that's having the blinders on. I love BB10, but phone usage is a balance. To some people, not having access to some of the modern communication apps is a productivity loser. Some businesses also need modern apps all the time. If you limit your definition of 'productivity' to emails and phone services, then perhaps a 9900 or Classic will suit you best, but an increasing number of businesses and individuals need other apps to remain productive.

    For these people, having an Android phone with a PKB may be the best solution to their multi-use scenarios with their phones.

    Also, complaining about the Priv keyboard reminds me of all the people who were being told that they should give the Passport keyboard a month or more of use before condemning it. It's a different feel, and will not immediately appeal to all PKB users. Take some time and see if it gets easier for you to use the phone. Who knows? You may grow to love it.
    12-10-15 09:09 AM
  5. owczi's Avatar
    I don't have the exact experience as yours but somehow I agree. I used to have a Curve then a Bold, now I'm having a Z3 BB10. I've also used iphone and android once in awhile. BBOS was the best. The small things that it offers is extremely useful. BB10 is less than that but still way better for Android and iOS experience. I also plan to get a Priv but after reading your review I feel reluctant to do so.

    Posted via CB10
    In my case I did not have much choice, because of Good for Android. Also while a perfect comms centre in your pocket, BB10 was impeding me because of the lack of apps. I had to carry a second phone that could run TomTom navigation, Google Maps etc. BB10 will die a slow death now and I think it's a fact.

    And it's true - when I moved to BB10 I was shocked at how much usability and keyboard action they dropped - now I praise it for what it has that Android does not. Profiles anyone? "Phone calls only" (!) - how difficult is that? The list goes on. I'd say stick to your Z3 for as long as you can, but ultimately it's a dead end. And there are no alternatives. Imagine a world where the only car manufacturers left are Ford and Toyota. This is it. Palm's dead, Firefox OS just died, Jolla is clutching at straws, all this even makes Windows Phone look decent (but it's getting nowhere). I think its time to dust off my Nokia 5110. It did little, but did it well. BBOS did not invade your privacy (in such obvious ways) - with the Priv, you're in bed with Google from day one.
    12-10-15 09:25 AM
  6. d a elliott's Avatar
    Well, some of what you wrote is absolutely true - regarding the toolbelt usefulness on the Classic. I loved it! I also hate touching the screen if there's a way to avoid it.

    That said, some of the issues you mention with the Priv are present on the Passport and Q10 too. You can't select anything on the Passport without touching the screen. Similarly, there's no Blackberry button on either of those phones. So they share that with the Priv.

    Secondly, you have to know that a lot of CB users have been claiming that the reason BB10 failed is that BB didn't release an updated all-touch phone. That would eliminate the 'benefits' of the PKB and of course there's no toolbelt.

    Finally, to the second poster who claims that Android is not a productivity platform, I think that's having the blinders on. I love BB10, but phone usage is a balance. To some people, not having access to some of the modern communication apps is a productivity loser. Some businesses also need modern apps all the time. If you limit your definition of 'productivity' to emails and phone services, then perhaps a 9900 or Classic will suit you best, but an increasing number of businesses and individuals need other apps to remain productive.

    For these people, having an Android phone with a PKB may be the best solution to their multi-use scenarios with their phones.

    Also, complaining about the Priv keyboard reminds me of all the people who were being told that they should give the Passport keyboard a month or more of use before condemning it. It's a different feel, and will not immediately appeal to all PKB users. Take some time and see if it gets easier for you to use the phone. Who knows? You may grow to love it.
    People also have to keep in mind that Android isn't customized out of the box for much of anything other than essentials, and that's the point. The user has a responsibility, if they wish to get the most out of it, to customize it so that it is maximally efficient with respect to their goals and needs. The difference between Android and iOS is that Android doesn't make any assumptions about what the user believes is most important, leaving them free to make up their own mind. This point is usually missed by a lot of people new to Android, expecting it to do what they want out of the box. The faster you let go of that misconception, the better the experience becomes. In many cases, your imagination is the limit with apps like launchers, lockscreens, SideBar, SwipePad, different browsers, different calendars, widgets, etc. The initial setup can be a PITA or at least time-consuming, but when you make the effort to learn how to do it and take the time to do it, the payoff is extraordinary. And the beauty of it? When your needs change, you can change everything around again. I take this for granted because I'm familiar with Android. It takes me a good two days to figure out how I want everything set up and organized, and then it takes another week to tweak it. Once it's done though, as it is now with my Priv, it's a productivity machine.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    iorto390 likes this.
    12-10-15 09:30 AM
  7. d a elliott's Avatar
    In my case I did not have much choice, because of Good for Android. Also while a perfect comms centre in your pocket, BB10 was impeding me because of the lack of apps. I had to carry a second phone that could run TomTom navigation, Google Maps etc. BB10 will die a slow death now and I think it's a fact.

    And it's true - when I moved to BB10 I was shocked at how much usability and keyboard action they dropped - now I praise it for what it has that Android does not. Profiles anyone? "Phone calls only" (!) - how difficult is that? The list goes on. I'd say stick to your Z3 for as long as you can, but ultimately it's a dead end. And there are no alternatives. Imagine a world where the only car manufacturers left are Ford and Toyota. This is it. Palm's dead, Firefox OS just died, Jolla is clutching at straws, all this even makes Windows Phone look decent (but it's getting nowhere). I think its time to dust off my Nokia 5110. It did little, but did it well. BBOS did not invade your privacy (in such obvious ways) - with the Priv, you're in bed with Google from day one.
    There are apps for sound profiles, like this one (which has "calls only"):

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...?id=Orion.Soft

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    12-10-15 09:32 AM
  8. owczi's Avatar
    Well, some of what you wrote is absolutely true - regarding the toolbelt usefulness on the Classic. I loved it! I also hate touching the screen if there's a way to avoid it.

    That said, some of the issues you mention with the Priv are present on the Passport and Q10 too. You can't select anything on the Passport without touching the screen. Similarly, there's no Blackberry button on either of those phones. So they share that with the Priv.

    Secondly, you have to know that a lot of CB users have been claiming that the reason BB10 failed is that BB didn't release an updated all-touch phone. That would eliminate the 'benefits' of the PKB and of course there's no toolbelt.

    Finally, to the second poster who claims that Android is not a productivity platform, I think that's having the blinders on. I love BB10, but phone usage is a balance. To some people, not having access to some of the modern communication apps is a productivity loser. Some businesses also need modern apps all the time. If you limit your definition of 'productivity' to emails and phone services, then perhaps a 9900 or Classic will suit you best, but an increasing number of businesses and individuals need other apps to remain productive.

    For these people, having an Android phone with a PKB may be the best solution to their multi-use scenarios with their phones.

    Also, complaining about the Priv keyboard reminds me of all the people who were being told that they should give the Passport keyboard a month or more of use before condemning it. It's a different feel, and will not immediately appeal to all PKB users. Take some time and see if it gets easier for you to use the phone. Who knows? You may grow to love it.
    All fair points. I know a lot about balance - and yes, I needed all those modern apps (navigation, banking anyone? I used to carry a second phone for this stuff and it was ridiculous). BB10 was impeding me. It is what it is. Right - I should have added that my BB10 experience is biased as I only used the Classic. As to the keyboard and liking it, I'm fairly set in my ways - don't think I'll grow to love it, but I'll sure forget I'd known better. Android is not "not a productivity platform". It's a generic platform, so there are trade-offs to be made.

    The truth is that hard core BB users are not the app consumers, the frequent phone refreshers and the revenue generators - and the wave of all-touch users is exactly why things turned out for BB the way they did. Tough.
    12-10-15 09:34 AM
  9. kbz1960's Avatar
    So having the choice of using the apps you prefer is a cluttered mess?
    12-10-15 09:40 AM
  10. owczi's Avatar
    There are apps for sound profiles, like this one (which has "calls only"):

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Nice one - many thanks for this. I keep forgetting how far app capabilities go in Android and if the manufacturer hasn't delivered something, chances are that there is an app that does it.
    d a elliott likes this.
    12-10-15 09:43 AM
  11. Brian Beaudoin's Avatar
    So having the choice of using the apps you prefer is a cluttered mess?
    Nowhere did I say having choice of apps is a cluttered mess . That is your inference. I made a broad vague statement out of frustration with Android in general(my experience) and my bad for not being more clear

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    12-10-15 03:26 PM
  12. ray689's Avatar
    There are apps for sound profiles, like this one (which has "calls only"):

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...?id=Orion.Soft

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Could also just change the settings in priority notifications to allow for calls only

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    12-10-15 03:29 PM
  13. aha's Avatar
    Well said. Android is a cluttered mess compared to BB 10 with a lot of flow removed or so different as to be unrecognizable. Android is a media consumption device while BB 10 is a far more efficient communication tool. One thing the Priv does very well is demonstrate how excellent BB 10 really is

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Give it time, we will have both.
    12-10-15 04:12 PM

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