[BigBadWulf]

Tinfoil, definitely tinfoil! It's as heavenly a product as duck tape.

I wish there were a rational explanation. The easy one is there's too little volume to commit many resources, but the evidence across many manufacturers and carriers disproves it. Even laziness doesn't reason out. Most logical explanation is they use a roulette wheel to determine which model gets an update, or placed on the back burner for another few months.

[Wezard]

I think dice, roulette wheels are too expensive, unless it's the top exec's making the determinations, then it could be roulette wheels.

[zephyr613]

Tinfoil, definitely tinfoil! It's as heavenly a product as duck tape.

I wish there were a rational explanation. The easy one is there's too little volume to commit many resources, but the evidence across many manufacturers and carriers disproves it. Even laziness doesn't reason out. Most logical explanation is they use a roulette wheel to determine which model gets an update, or placed on the back burner for another few months.

While I agree to some extent, that isn't mathematically possible. Even if (and it's a BIG if..) they were playing "spin the wheel" it would have to land on us at some point.. from a mathematical standpoint - or maybe we actually hit the lottery for 4 months straight while they were pushing the monthly updates. (That number may be incorrect, as I really can't remember when they started carrying the device)

Think of this scenario: A man in a committed relationship - or any relationship, can't possibly be wrong 100% of the time, mathematically impossible.

Maybe that was a bad example.

[misterabrasive]

While I agree to some extent, that isn't mathematically possible. Even if (and it's a BIG if..) they were playing "spin the wheel" it would have to land on us at some point.. from a mathematical standpoint - or maybe we actually hit the lottery for 4 months straight while they were pushing the monthly updates. (That number may be incorrect, as I really can't remember when they started carrying the device)

Think of this scenario: A man in a committed relationship - or any relationship, can't possibly be wrong 100% of the time, mathematically impossible.

Maybe that was a bad example.

It depends on the other half of the relationship.

[zephyr613]

It depends on the other half of the relationship.

But the math still works

[misterabrasive]

Tinfoil, definitely tinfoil! It's as heavenly a product as duck tape.

I wish there were a rational explanation. The easy one is there's too little volume to commit many resources, but the evidence across many manufacturers and carriers disproves it. Even laziness doesn't reason out. Most logical explanation is they use a roulette wheel to determine which model gets an update, or placed on the back burner for another few months.

The baffling thing about this is, as large a corporation as Verizon is, they have to have hundreds, if not thousands, of software engineers or other people involved with these things. If you look at the Advanced device software updates on the Verizon website, there's not that many being updated.

[BigBadWulf]

While I agree to some extent, that isn't mathematically possible. Even if (and it's a BIG if..) they were playing "spin the wheel" it would have to land on us at some point.. from a mathematical standpoint - or maybe we actually hit the lottery for 4 months straight while they were pushing the monthly updates. (That number may be incorrect, as I really can't remember when they started carrying the device)

Think of this scenario: A man in a committed relationship - or any relationship, can't possibly be wrong 100% of the time, mathematically impossible.

Maybe that was a bad example.

So, you're saying the house can't always win?

[BigBadWulf]

The baffling thing about this is, as large a corporation as Verizon is, they have to have hundreds, if not thousands, of software engineers or other people involved with these things. If you look at the Advanced device software updates on the Verizon website, there's not that many being updated.

It's a massive corporation. Like a federal government it gets detached from those it serves, and pays a lot of people to do nothing, or worse.

How's that for a viable explanation?

[misterabrasive]

It's a massive corporation. Like a federal government it gets detached from those it serves, and pays a lot of people to do nothing, or worse.

How's that for a viable explanation?

Sounds similar to the railroad!

[zephyr613]

So, you're saying the house can't always win?

Nope. Ever see Oceans 11?

Seriously, House can't will 100% of the time, would be a matter of weeks before the place was empty. Why would anyone come back knowing they can't possibly win. Even the lottery has winners. Just like Occams Razor...

[1linuxfreak]

Nope. Ever see Oceans 11?

Seriously, House can't will 100% of the time, would be a matter of weeks before the place was empty. Why would anyone come back knowing they can't possibly win. Even the lottery has winners. Just like Occams Razor...

What about Publishers Clearing House? JK

[FF22]

Sounds similar to the railroad!

Ever work for AT&T in the old days before it was broken up!!!! Now there was an immovable force. Get promoted first in your training class and get salary boost. A month later others get promoted AFTER you and now earn $1500 more per year because the salary Schedule changed. No, you are not entitled to the extra difference "we can't make exception to the schedule". Next year - sos (same old you know what) - first promoted and now earn even less.

Ten page letter of resignation! "Personnel: you don't want to burn your bridges!" Me: "No, I want to dynamite them!" Serious back and forth as the exit interview. Fast forward six months....... Personnel: "You want a summer job back with us" NO Jef'n way!!!!!!!!!!

[BigBadWulf]

Nope. Ever see Oceans 11?

Seriously, House can't will 100% of the time, would be a matter of weeks before the place was empty. Why would anyone come back knowing they can't possibly win. Even the lottery has winners. Just like Occams Razor...

Jane, you ignorant...



You're thinking like a CrackBerrian, not the average consumer, who doesn't pay the slightest attention to updates. The house can [damn near] always win.

[misterabrasive]

Jane, you ignorant...

You're thinking like a CrackBerrian, not the average consumer, who doesn't pay the slightest attention to updates. The house can [damn near] always win.

Those dang CrackBerrians. Always ruining things.

[zephyr613]

Jane, you ignorant...



You're thinking like a CrackBerrian, not the average consumer, who doesn't pay the slightest attention to updates. The house can [damn near] always win.

Replies Jane: they key word there is "damn near"...

[BigBadWulf]

Replies Jane: they key word there is "damn near"...

Jane, Jane, Jane! I'm sure the carriers have done their research, and found that OS updates have no significant impact on customer retention, or they would behave differently.

[Wezard]

I doubt they've done any research, carriers haven't done much with updates past the first year, ever. Especially with lower volume devices. No significant effect on customer retention, (after all, they are pretty much the same historically and on average) so why jump ship for the same treatment? So why change what they have always done?
It would take one carrier to start being religious about updating, and several years for the small part of the public that pays any attention to even become aware. Then the rest of the carriers would prob run some numbers and see if it was worth the added expense.
And it's not all on the carriers, hard to release an update that the manufacturer hasn't provided.
I say ignorant and/or don't care consumers are as much to blame as the carriers, maybe more.

[zephyr613]

Jane, Jane, Jane! I'm sure the carriers have done their research, and found that OS updates have no significant impact on customer retention, or they would behave differently.

Yeah, just look at the IOS 10 roll-out, you know, the one that bricked almost every device until Apple patched it the same day.(says Chevy Chase staring into camera with absolutely no facial expression whatsoever)

[zephyr613]

I doubt they've done any research, carriers haven't done much with updates past the first year, ever. Especially with lower volume devices. No significant effect on customer retention, (after all, they are pretty much the same historically and on average) so why jump ship for the same treatment? So why change what they have always done?
It would take one carrier to start being religious about updating, and several years for the small part of the public that pays any attention to even become aware. Then the rest of the carriers would prob run some numbers and see if it was worth the added expense.
And it's not all on the carriers, hard to release an update that the manufacturer hasn't provided.
I say ignorant and/or don't care consumers are as much to blame as the carriers, maybe more.

Not disagreeing, but look at AT&T and how they have changed recently - used to be spattered sporadic updates and not their track record with the PRIV on both Security updates as well as pushing MM is very commendable.

[zephyr613]

And it's not all on the carriers, hard to release an update that the manufacturer hasn't provided..

Are you saying that Blackberry released MM to every carrier EXCEPT Verizon??

[Wezard]

Not disagreeing, but look at AT&T and how they have changed recently - used to be spattered sporadic updates and not their track record with the PRIV on both Security updates as well as pushing MM is very commendable.

True for the Priv, so far.
Is it also true for all their other devices? I don't keep up with other devices, so I have no idea.
Maybe AT&T is that one carrier getting religious about updates, doubt it.

[zephyr613]

True for the Priv, so far.
Is it also true for all their other devices? I don't keep up with other devices, so I have no idea.
Maybe AT&T is that one carrier getting religious about updates, doubt it.

Actually, I don't know about other devices on AT&T either...kinda tunnel vision on the PRIV lately..

[ggendel]

Are you saying that Blackberry released MM to every carrier EXCEPT Verizon??

Au contraire, mon frier. Blackberry has released MM to every carrier including Verizon. That's where it languishes. To add to the conspiracy, I wrote to Tami Erwin, VP Wireless operation about the problem. I got back a form email (spelling my name wrong!)

Dear XXXXXXX,

Thank you for taking the time to contact me. I will ensure that a key member of my team contacts you the next business day to handle this personally for me.

I value your business and realize we must earn it every day. My goal is to maintain your trust by providing the excellent service you deserve and expect from Verizon.

Thank you for contacting Verizon

Sincerely,

Tami Erwin

Executive Vice President - Wireless Operations

I've been waiting and the "Business day" has long passed without a peep from anyone from any "key member" of her staff. That shows how much she "values" my business.

[zephyr613]

Au contraire, mon frier. Blackberry has released MM to every carrier including Verizon. .

Thats what I was questioning in his statement of "And it's not all on the carriers, hard to release an update that the manufacturer hasn't provided.."

[zephyr613]

Au contraire, mon frier. Blackberry has released MM to every carrier including Verizon. That's where it languishes. To add to the conspiracy, I wrote to Tami Erwin, VP Wireless operation about the problem. I got back a form email (spelling my name wrong!)

I've been waiting and the "Business day" has long passed without a peep from anyone from any "key member" of her staff. That shows how much she "values" my business.

Maybe we really should start sharing email addresses of the "Senior" people here in the forum. Can't even spell you name correctly? Wow...