08-19-15 06:50 AM
51 123
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  1. conite's Avatar
    F

    In terms of a heavily customized BlackBerry android based device, I don't see it happening. I was under the impression that Google wanted the OEM's to scale back their UI's. I could be wrong about that though.
    I think as long as it passes compatibility testing, it should be permitted. But you make a valid point.

    The issue is that, as much as we love BB10, the new skinned OS can't be so far from Android that Android users would be frustrated and start returning the devices to the store. It will have to be a compromise.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2339
    08-17-15 12:44 PM
  2. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    I think as long as it passes compatibility testing, it should be permitted. But you make a valid point.

    The issue is that, as much as we love BB10, the new skinned OS can't be so far from Android that Android users would be frustrated and start returning the devices to the store. It will have to be a compromise.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2339
    That's also a good point. There has to be some consistency with the other flavors of Android otherwise it will be too foreign to current Android users.
    08-17-15 12:47 PM
  3. Ment's Avatar
    For the small niche of us that enjoy using BB10 as an operating system I would welcome it if BB implemented their Android RT like Xiaomi did. This would clear the way for them to make a pure Google certified Android phone while still giving BB10 enthusiasts the option to stick with what they like.

    In terms of a heavily customized BlackBerry android based device, I don't see it happening. I was under the impression that Google wanted the OEM's to scale back their UI's. I could be wrong about that though.
    Xiaomi isn't just a runtime, its full-blown Android OS, Linux kernel, all the libraries..everything, they just changed the UI to an IOS like interface so its not a surprise that is passed the technical parts - compatibility testing. They want to come into Western markets but I think they will have to change some things for Google and to avoid being sued by Apple.
    08-17-15 01:05 PM
  4. Vistaus's Avatar
    A better example, like I already posted earlier, is SailfishOS. It has Android runtime as well and it's easy to install Google Play Services.
    08-17-15 01:20 PM
  5. 1REDRUM's Avatar
    I think the new BlackBerry 10 / Android will be authorized by Google and outside of the. Alliance. I.E. Google gets a truly secure service to sell which is BlackBerry 10 and BlackBerry gets better Android run time with Google Play.

    The key here is Google is the one authorizing this and there is money involved one way or the other. This is not a "free" operating system but a hybrid expressly licenced by Google.

    It may operate as well similar to BB10 does currently in enterprise with work and personal mode. Work will be BB10 with better runtime and some Google play services and personal will have unsecurable Android it all its glory.

    Posted via CB10
    08-17-15 01:26 PM
  6. dejanh's Avatar
    I think the new BlackBerry 10 / Android will be authorized by Google and outside of the. Alliance. I.E. Google gets a truly secure service to sell which is BlackBerry 10 and BlackBerry gets better Android run time with Google Play.

    The key here is Google is the one authorizing this and there is money involved one way or the other. This is not a "free" operating system but a hybrid expressly licenced by Google.

    It may operate as well similar to BB10 does currently in enterprise with work and personal mode. Work will be BB10 with better runtime and some Google play services and personal will have unsecurable Android it all its glory.

    Posted via CB10
    I personally really dislike the dual-OS approach you discuss towards the end of your quote above. It would be a disaster from a usability perspective. You would be operating in two completely incompatible, not-interoperable environments.
    08-17-15 01:58 PM
  7. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    I think the new BlackBerry 10 / Android will be authorized by Google and outside of the. Alliance. I.E. Google gets a truly secure service to sell which is BlackBerry 10 and BlackBerry gets better Android run time with Google Play.

    The key here is Google is the one authorizing this and there is money involved one way or the other. This is not a "free" operating system but a hybrid expressly licenced by Google.

    It may operate as well similar to BB10 does currently in enterprise with work and personal mode. Work will be BB10 with better runtime and some Google play services and personal will have unsecurable Android it all its glory.

    Posted via CB10
    This is problematic because Samsung will expect the same treatment for Tizen. The bottom line is that if someone wants official out of the box access to Google Play and the GSF they need to be running an authorized version of Android as the base OS. There is no way around it. Anything else is just wishful thinking. A few million dollars in enterprise device sales is not worth Google risking a lawsuit from their current OHA partners and potentially blowing their entire mobile business apart. If Google really wanted to get into the enterprise space they could just buy BlackBerry with the spare change laying around Larry Page's office.
    08-17-15 02:04 PM
  8. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Xiaomi isn't just a runtime, its full-blown Android OS, Linux kernel, all the libraries..everything, they just changed the UI to an IOS like interface so its not a surprise that is passed the technical parts - compatibility testing. They want to come into Western markets but I think they will have to change some things for Google and to avoid being sued by Apple.
    Yes. My bad. I should have said sailfish. They use a different OS + android RT but have implemented it much better from what I have read.
    Vistaus likes this.
    08-17-15 02:05 PM
  9. Vistaus's Avatar
    They use a different OS + android RT but have implemented it much better from what I have read.
    As a current Jolla Phone SailfishOS user (my mum is already a BB10 user and I will be in the near future, if there is one), I can confirm this.
    08-17-15 02:13 PM
  10. Soulstream's Avatar
    To this point, HTC is/was also selling Windows phones, as is/was Samsung. There is nothing that restricts a vendor from selling phones with another OS that is not Android even if they are a member of OHA.
    Very true, they are allowed as long as the other OS contains NO Android code.
    08-17-15 02:59 PM
  11. Ment's Avatar
    Yes. My bad. I should have said sailfish. They use a different OS + android RT but have implemented it much better from what I have read.
    Has anyone run the compatibility suite against Sailfish? I doubt it would pass. On a non-technical level Google is unlikely to give official sanction to Sailfish either because the UI differences would be seen as fragmentation and because Google has no control of OS development; what is compatible now may not be compatible in the future. BB10 sees this constantly: APK gets updated and app no longer works. That would a nightmare for Android devs and they wouldn't want it.
    08-17-15 03:50 PM
  12. Vistaus's Avatar
    The Android runtime in Sailfish is still there, even on the upcoming Jolla Tablet. And that tablet won best tablet award at MWC 2015, I doubt Google has missed that news. So if they wanted to go after Jolla, they would've already done so. Turns out Jolla is still moving forward with the Android runtime. And in the 1,5 years I have used SailfishOS (will switch to BB10 soon!) I have experienced no issues with apps not working anymore after an update. (but the same can be said for my mum's Passport) The Android runtime on Sailfish is only getting new API's with every new update and Jolla ensures that apps stay compatible.
    Last edited by Vistaus; 08-17-15 at 04:13 PM.
    08-17-15 04:01 PM
  13. lawguyman's Avatar
    The Android runtime in Sailfish is still there, even on the upcoming Jolla Tablet. And that tablet won best tablet award at MWC 2015, I doubt Google has missed that news. So if they wanted to go after Jolla, they would've already done so. Turns out Jolla is still moving forward with the Android runtime. And in the 1,5 years I have used SailfishOS (will switch to BB10 soon!) I have experienced no issues with apps not working anymore after an update. (but the same can be said for my mum's Passport)
    Android is open source so Google can't go after Jolla.

    But, Jolla can't ship a device with Google's apps because Jolla doesn't have a license to do it. Jolla would be bankrupted if it did that.

    I don't think Google cares very much if a Jolla user decides to install GPS. Google did care enough to stop Cyanogen from releasing it's roms with GPS though.

    Posted via CB10
    08-17-15 04:15 PM
  14. dejanh's Avatar
    Google did care enough to stop Cyanogen from releasing it's roms with GPS though.
    Posted via CB10
    Emphasis intentionally placed on the key statement. BB10 with a run-time that is fully compatible with Play Services would be okay, as long as it does not ship with Play Services.
    LuvULongTime likes this.
    08-17-15 04:44 PM
  15. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Emphasis intentionally placed on the key statement. BB10 with a run-time that is fully compatible with Play Services would be okay, as long as it does not ship with Play Services.
    And that's also the difference I was trying to highlight. As long as the device maker does not ship the device with GPS than Google can't come after them. What the end user does after purchase is their business.
    Vistaus likes this.
    08-17-15 05:14 PM
  16. lawguyman's Avatar
    I'm not sure how simply shipping BB10 with a fully compatible Android runtime and without Google Play Services will help BlackBerry much. It's not much different than what BB10 is now.

    Posted via CB10
    08-17-15 06:07 PM
  17. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    I'm not sure how simply shipping BB10 with a fully compatible Android runtime and without Google Play Services will help BlackBerry much. It's not much different than what BB10 is now.

    Posted via CB10
    No disagreement. But for folks like us that like to tinker with our phones things become much easier as all apps will work once we install GPS ourselves. And it also allows BB to join the OHA and build a fully compatible Android device without having to give up the RT on BB10.
    Vistaus and dejanh like this.
    08-17-15 09:09 PM
  18. dejanh's Avatar
    I'm not sure how simply shipping BB10 with a fully compatible Android runtime and without Google Play Services will help BlackBerry much. It's not much different than what BB10 is now.

    Posted via CB10
    I could argue that it's tremendously different. Not a single Android app would have to be ported any more, and the full suite of Google apps would be available without modifications to BlackBerry 10. We would actually, truly, have access to the full suite of Android apps. This is easier even for the end user that does not like to tinker. Just install the required APKs, which mind you can be officially downloaded, and that's it. It's not "out of the box ready" for the user, but it is leaps and bounds better than today.
    08-18-15 02:39 AM
  19. Vistaus's Avatar
    And for even easier install, a CB dev could probably hack all the required APK's into a single bar file for one-click all-APK installation.
    08-18-15 05:32 AM
  20. Pcmx's Avatar
    I personally really dislike the dual-OS approach you discuss towards the end of your quote above. It would be a disaster from a usability perspective. You would be operating in two completely incompatible, not-interoperable environments.
    But if even only to dream about it, QNX afaik has the ability to do that. Skip the ideas of a skin, or a run time, or a dual-boot. It could run a full stock Android as a "guest os" in such a way that it all appears and works as one operating environment. A headless virtualization with a look and operate-ability that pleases Google would be interesting.
    08-18-15 07:11 AM
  21. Soulstream's Avatar
    And for even easier install, a CB dev could probably hack all the required APK's into a single bar file for one-click all-APK installation.
    And exactly this kind of "hack" or "workaround" mentality has no traction in the consumer market.
    08-18-15 07:13 AM
  22. Vistaus's Avatar
    And exactly this kind of "hack" or "workaround" mentality has no traction in the consumer market.
    I didn't say that, I was talking about making it easier for those who like to tinker.
    08-18-15 08:21 AM
  23. thurask's Avatar
    And for even easier install, a CB dev could probably hack all the required APK's into a single bar file for one-click all-APK installation.
    What CB devs?
    08-19-15 01:58 AM
  24. Cobalt232's Avatar
    He meant you (no me, I'm not in the BAR business).
    08-19-15 02:20 AM
  25. Vistaus's Avatar
    Are there no devs in the CB community? Damn, that's not good.
    08-19-15 05:37 AM
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