[Hendri Hendri]

I understand what you mean. But very few people who use the their smartphone just for calls, texts and email are tech savvy or research all platforms. For those basic needs any smartphone would do just fine for them, even Jolla, ubuntu or Firefox OS.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Especially if we spend a lot for the phone, let say BlackBerry passport?

Sabbe Satta Bhavantu Sukitatta - Posted via CB

[tufcustomer]

Not that it would have a made a great differenence but Verizon also gave BlackBerry an unreasonable time line as well. Something like a year to build the Storm from scratch. Design and build.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

Fair enough, but considering they were at the top of their game at that point, fair to have a little higher expectations no? Hardware was the main concern for them. For the most part the software was ready, albeit needed the accommodations for a touch screen. Correct me if I'm wrong, just thinking out loud.

Posted via CB10

[southlander]

Fair enough, but considering they were at the top of their game at that point, fair to have a little higher expectations no? Hardware was the main concern for them. For the most part the software was ready, albeit needed the accommodations for a touch screen. Correct me if I'm wrong, just thinking out loud.

Posted via CB10

I don't think so. If you read that book about the rise and fall of BlackBerry -- it seems they were a bit of a mess even if highly successful. Struggling to meet the demand and growth, and strained for resources. The BBOS software was absolutely NOT ready as they had an aging OS designed for use with a keyboard and trackball/trackpad. Not touchscreens. But with so little time, under pressure from VZW, and no other OS, they adapted it. And it was pretty terrible for that purpose anyway. The book claims there was basically a 100% return rate on the Storm early on.

[fishlove73]

Because 90% on CB use droids and Icrap. Security even fro the non-BES user is still better. Why?

1) stand alone calendar ...which mean it doesnt get "shared" or is linked to a third party app. Meaning google doesnt get my appointmets or pick parts out as keywords to send me targeted ads. Meaning my doctors appointments are saved to an encrypted SD for back up rather than someone elses server.
2) encrypted chipset that ties the OS to the device ...meaning it cant be hacked and rooted.
3) if my device is stolen...not only can they not get into my phone but it wipes...only the magic blackberry ID and password can get in; If an Android gets stolen...root it, new user ID and it becomes the person who stole its phone. Sure Lookout will tell you where your droid is and wipe it for you, but someone can still plug it into their laptop and make it their phone,
4) password keeper....cant be hacked.
5) remember is built in, 1000 times better than evernote, is private and doesnt get data mined like evernote does,
6) Photos go from native gallery to encrypted SD....So google or anyone else for that matter do not control or have access to my photo gallery. Picassa and google plus really screwed up Android by not giving the devices a stand alone gallery.
7) I have all the apps that I want....only the apps I used dont want my contacts or to sell my personal info
8)Link and Blend...rather have my back ups living with me than sitting on a google server for them to comb around for information to figure out what they are going to profile me with.
9)No native file manager on Droids......with blackberry i have control on security with my files/photos/PDFs, but i choose where they go and how they are shared. I also have the option to save every one of them to encrypted SD which is tied to my device
Alot of people on CB have not even touched BB10 and yet they continue to comment on it, even though they know nothing about the OS or the native security features that come with it not even including BES.
10) there is not an Android OS out there that runs a smoothly as BB10, or handles tasks with the speed that BB10 does. Try each for a week...you wont be going back to a droid...thats for sure.

[kbz1960]

I get that this is far-fetched, but the OS choice thing has been suggested by a few different sources. So long as it's not an actual dual-boot Google may be okay.

Posted from CB10 on my classy Passport--TBUCK64

Would be nice if they made an exception just for BlackBerry but I don't see that happening.

[kbz1960]

Because 90% on CB use droids and Icrap. Security even fro the non-BES user is still better. Why?

1) stand alone calendar ...which mean it doesnt get "shared" or is linked to a third party app. Meaning google doesnt get my appointmets or pick parts out as keywords to send me targeted ads. Meaning my doctors appointments are saved to an encrypted SD for back up rather than someone elses server.
2) encrypted chipset that ties the OS to the device ...meaning it cant be hacked and rooted.
3) if my device is stolen...not only can they not get into my phone but it wipes...only the magic blackberry ID and password can get in; If an Android gets stolen...root it, new user ID and it becomes the person who stole its phone. Sure Lookout will tell you where your droid is and wipe it for you, but someone can still plug it into their laptop and make it their phone,
4) password keeper....cant be hacked.
5) remember is built in, 1000 times better than evernote, is private and doesnt get data mined like evernote does,
6) Photos go from native gallery to encrypted SD....So google or anyone else for that matter do not control or have access to my photo gallery. Picassa and google plus really screwed up Android by not giving the devices a stand alone gallery.
7) I have all the apps that I want....only the apps I used dont want my contacts or to sell my personal info
8)Link and Blend...rather have my back ups living with me than sitting on a google server for them to comb around for information to figure out what they are going to profile me with.
9)No native file manager on Droids......with blackberry i have control on security with my files/photos/PDFs, but i choose where they go and how they are shared. I also have the option to save every one of them to encrypted SD which is tied to my device
Alot of people on CB have not even touched BB10 and yet they continue to comment on it, even though they know nothing about the OS or the native security features that come with it not even including BES.
10) there is not an Android OS out there that runs a smoothly as BB10, or handles tasks with the speed that BB10 does. Try each for a week...you wont be going back to a droid...thats for sure.

Um, I think most every other OS can be setup to do most all of that.

[jeffydude05]

Read this : Hands On With the iPhone 6s, 6s Plus | PCMag.com and this : Apple iPhone 6s, 6s Plus Equipped With '3D Touch' | Video | PCMag.com reviewer even gives credit to BlackBerry having it on the storm 2 in 2008 and how some of the other "innovative" apple stuff was found first on some android oem's from a couple of years ago. 2nd link kind of tells you that Apple 3d and force touch use a couple of sensors under the screen. Yes, storm 2 had 4 to 5 pressure sensitive sensors under the screen. But, Apple will do it right and make them useful features where other Oem's failed at it. Or it could backfire on them. Interesting to see where Apple takes it and for how long.

Rocking a Z30 on Verizon

Okay? Surepress and 3d touch aren't the same....the screen on the storm was basically acting as the trackball/trackpad....you had to select then click.


Yeah because apple doesn't innovate at all ....I hope you don't mean Blackberry innovates...hard to do when you have to cut R&D every year to make your earnings look better.

[jeffydude05]

I don't think so. If you read that book about the rise and fall of BlackBerry -- it seems they were a bit of a mess even if highly successful. Struggling to meet the demand and growth, and strained for resources. The BBOS software was absolutely NOT ready as they had an aging OS designed for use with a keyboard and trackball/trackpad. Not touchscreens. But with so little time, under pressure from VZW, and no other OS, they adapted it. And it was pretty terrible for that purpose anyway. The book claims there was basically a 100% return rate on the Storm early on.

It is a good book, everyone on here should read it. Losing the Signal: The Untold Story Behind the Extraordinary Rise and Spectacular Fall of BlackBerry

[astrodan13]

Okay? Surepress and 3d touch aren't the same....the screen on the storm was basically acting as the trackball/trackpad....you had to select then click.


Yeah because apple doesn't innovate at all....I hope you don't mean Blackberry innovates...hard to do when you have to cut R&D every year to make your earnings look better.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. And no, I didn't mean that BlackBerry innovates lol. I give credit to Apple for using things from others and making them better and more useful. On another note, the storm 2 screen was a touch screen. I had one. On custom theme's I was able to just touch an icon to open or close things without 'clicking ' on it. BlackBerry tried to differentiate itself by touching to highlight and then pressing in to select. But, as a lot of themes I ran, you only had to 'touch ' to use certain items. Only the core Os made you 'click ' to activate. It was a touch screen, just not a 'conventional' touch screen like the iPhone. The storm series was supposed to be the 'iPhone killer' but never was. I still loved that phone regardless and to this day I still have it. I do admit I fire it up from time to time and I feel like I'm using a flip phone lol. Can't remember how to do half the things on it. My favorite theme was the Fallout theme.

Rocking a Z30 on Verizon

[jeffydude05]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. And no, I didn't mean that BlackBerry innovates lol. I give credit to Apple for using things from others and making them better and more useful. On another note, the storm 2 screen was a touch screen. I had one. On custom theme's I was able to just touch an icon to open or close things without 'clicking ' on it. BlackBerry tried to differentiate itself by touching to highlight and then pressing in to select. But, as a lot of themes I ran, you only had to 'touch ' to use certain items. Only the core Os made you 'click ' to activate. It was a touch screen, just not a 'conventional' touch screen like the iPhone. The storm series was supposed to be the 'iPhone killer' but never was. I still loved that phone regardless and to this day I still have it. I do admit I fire it up from time to time and I feel like I'm using a flip phone lol. Can't remember how to do half the things on it. My favorite theme was the Fallout theme.

Rocking a Z30 on Verizon

One of many iphone killers...thankfully people stopped using that term after awhile . I still fire up my Palm Pre from time to time, depressing. I really think they should just drop hardware, competing in the Android spec race against Samsung...LG...Motorola...is going to be pretty difficult. Guess we will see..

[astrodan13]

One of many iphone killers...thankfully people stopped using that term after awhile . I still fire up my Palm Pre from time to time, depressing. I really think they should just drop hardware, competing in the Android spec race against Samsung...LG...Motorola...is going to be pretty difficult. Guess we will see..

I'm with you on that. And I definitely agree with you on the book. I'm still reading it and it's very intriguing. Hopefully BlackBerry 10 doesn't go the way of Palm. I know a lot of people really thought it was a great Os. I myself never tried it but know it had a great following. I guess time will tell what happens with BlackBerry down the road.

Rocking a Z30 on Verizon

[jeffydude05]

I'm with you on that. And I definitely agree with you on the book. I'm still reading it and it's very intriguing. Hopefully BlackBerry 10 doesn't go the way of Palm. I know a lot of people really thought it was a great Os. I myself never tried it but know it had a great following. I guess time will tell what happens with BlackBerry down the road.

Rocking a Z30 on Verizon

You're using it on your z30...basically

[tufcustomer]

I don't think so. If you read that book about the rise and fall of BlackBerry -- it seems they were a bit of a mess even if highly successful. Struggling to meet the demand and growth, and strained for resources. The BBOS software was absolutely NOT ready as they had an aging OS designed for use with a keyboard and trackball/trackpad. Not touchscreens. But with so little time, under pressure from VZW, and no other OS, they adapted it. And it was pretty terrible for that purpose anyway. The book claims there was basically a 100% return rate on the Storm early on.

Ouch 100% eh? They shouldn't have released it as quickly as they did though as in term of public relations it's done probably the most damage. I'm sure they knew it was half baked, and by the time they rectified it with the Storm 2 it was too late. Makes you kinda wish they already had some beta form of BB10 in the works prior to VZW's request to expedite work on. That way the storm would launch with probably higher specs and a far better os than the original iPhone.

Posted via CB10

[astrodan13]

You're using it on your z30...basically

I guess I can understand why a lot of people are upset with BlackBerry then. Being on one Os and it was stopped, then moving to BlackBerry 10 and things don't look so good now either. it's a shame really.

Rocking a Z30 on Verizon

[southlander]

Ouch 100% eh?
Posted via CB10

I am pretty sure close to that. It GREATLY damaged BlackBerry's relationship with Verizon. Verizon demanded BlackBerry take back and refund the returned handsets. In the end the book says BlackBerry handled it without having to do exactly that -- but via other means over time.

[tufcustomer]

I am pretty sure close to that. It GREATLY damaged BlackBerry's relationship with Verizon. Verizon demanded BlackBerry take back and refund the returned handsets. In the end the book says BlackBerry handled it without having to do exactly that -- but via other means over time.

Seems like an interesting read. I'll have to look into getting a copy.

Posted via CB10

[crackbb10]

The security aspect is more meant for business consumers, not really general consumers. It makes sure there are less loopholes and ins and outs in getting sensitive data. When it comes to email, it won't matter what phone you use because it's going through some server, unless it's a secured server it'll make no difference, and I doubt any of you guys would actually pay for that. Ya'll use BlackBerry phones for features same goes for windows phone, it makes the experience unique, not features you don't see like end to end encryption. Me sure I'd love and prefer a bb10 version, but I'm really hoping this phone pushes BlackBerry back to black to maybe go back to bbos in the future.

I may somewhat agree on the security part, you need BES12 for that. But there's also something called privacy. If you can find me someone who hacked or rooted or cracked a BlackBerry 10 device, I'll give you my Passport SE (brand new might I add). I am confident in having all things on my device being secured all the way down through the hardware.

So yeah, send stuff from your non-BES12 BlackBerry 10 device to any other non-BES12 device is not "secure". However, all stuff on my non-BES12 BlackBerry 10 device is very private and it will stay that way.

Unless I'm really touching in the dark and just lost my Passport. Anyone?

[crackbb10]

Because 90% on CB use droids and Icrap. Security even fro the non-BES user is still better. Why?

1) stand alone calendar ...which mean it doesnt get "shared" or is linked to a third party app. Meaning google doesnt get my appointmets or pick parts out as keywords to send me targeted ads. Meaning my doctors appointments are saved to an encrypted SD for back up rather than someone elses server.
2) encrypted chipset that ties the OS to the device ...meaning it cant be hacked and rooted.
3) if my device is stolen...not only can they not get into my phone but it wipes...only the magic blackberry ID and password can get in; If an Android gets stolen...root it, new user ID and it becomes the person who stole its phone. Sure Lookout will tell you where your droid is and wipe it for you, but someone can still plug it into their laptop and make it their phone,
4) password keeper....cant be hacked.
5) remember is built in, 1000 times better than evernote, is private and doesnt get data mined like evernote does,
6) Photos go from native gallery to encrypted SD....So google or anyone else for that matter do not control or have access to my photo gallery. Picassa and google plus really screwed up Android by not giving the devices a stand alone gallery.
7) I have all the apps that I want....only the apps I used dont want my contacts or to sell my personal info
8)Link and Blend...rather have my back ups living with me than sitting on a google server for them to comb around for information to figure out what they are going to profile me with.
9)No native file manager on Droids......with blackberry i have control on security with my files/photos/PDFs, but i choose where they go and how they are shared. I also have the option to save every one of them to encrypted SD which is tied to my device
Alot of people on CB have not even touched BB10 and yet they continue to comment on it, even though they know nothing about the OS or the native security features that come with it not even including BES.
10) there is not an Android OS out there that runs a smoothly as BB10, or handles tasks with the speed that BB10 does. Try each for a week...you wont be going back to a droid...thats for sure.

If I had not seen your post before posted mine I would've probably brought up most of the above as well. Although I think your points have more to do with privacy. No? With the whole security and privacy debate and all.

[crackbb10]

Um, I think most every other OS can be setup to do most all of that.

I think the point he made wasn't concerning other OS's not being able to do this. We know they can and to a much higher degree than BlackBerry 10. The point is you don't need 3rd party apps on BlackBerry 10 to do this. It's the out-of-the-box experience that BlackBerry 10 offers with security and privacy built in as the highest priorities. Ergo, no data mining.

Many people just don't care about this and are perfectly fine with going the 3rd party route. And that's perfectly fine as well. It's nice to still have BlackBerry offering both hardware and software so we can choose to use that instead of other offerings. That's why I have somewhat of a gripe for the Android Venice. It's only BlackBerry hardware with some BlackBerry software on another one's OS. But hey, I want them to keep making money so they can keep delivering me hardware with their proprietary OS.

[southlander]

I think the point he made wasn't concerning other OS's not being able to do this. We know they can and to a much higher degree than BlackBerry 10. The point is you don't need 3rd party apps on BlackBerry 10 to do this. It's the out-of-the-box experience that BlackBerry 10 offers with security and privacy built in as the highest priorities. Ergo, no data mining.

Most of the referred to data mining issues come from using Gmail and Google calendar services. Not the apps. Android phones have stock calendar apps. If you don't want anyone mining your data then just use a service that's not Google that does not do this. Same with emails. There are plenty of choices other than Gmail.

I agree BlackBerry has security as a high priority. Not disagreeing there.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[mrabody]

I think the number of people who don't use many (or any!) apps on their smart phones would come as a surprise to those posters continually blaming the app gap. Unfortunately, they still use Android and IOS devices because of the lack of ready availability of BlackBerry devices and carrier sales reps who only sell what they know.

Posted via CB10

[crackbb10]

Most of the referred to data mining issues come from using Gmail and Google calendar services. Not the apps. Android phones have stock calendar apps. If you don't want anyone mining your data then just use a service that's not Google that does not do this. Same with emails. There are plenty of choices other than Gmail.

I agree BlackBerry has security as a high priority. Not disagreeing there.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

Yes, that is true. One has ample opportunity to opt-out of many things Google. However, many 3rd party developers ask for certain permissions that have nothing to do with the apps themselves. A flashlight wanting access to shared files and emails for instance. Not impossible to do, but it's hard work finding good non-data mining apps on Google driven devices.

I'm also not down with the all or nothing approach. Many apps should work properly without certain permissions, but that's coming soon in Android M. I'm curious to see in what way they (Google) will implement this. More interesting for me even is how BlackBerry will work with permissions on the Venice.

[twelvezero8]

I think the number of people who don't use many (or any!) apps on their smart phones would come as a surprise to those posters continually blaming the app gap. Unfortunately, they still use Android and IOS devices because of the lack of ready availability of BlackBerry devices and carrier sales reps who only sell what they know.

Posted via CB10

Yeah I don't have or use many apps on my phone. The issue is when I do decide I want an app I want to be able to just go and download it and not have any issues. The app situation on bb10 even with amazon is BAD. Even with the work arounds like snap and colbalt it's not convenient. I think that's the issue people are referring to.

Posted via CB10

[southlander]

Yes, that is true. One has ample opportunity to opt-out of many things Google. However, many 3rd party developers ask for certain permissions that have nothing to do with the apps themselves. A flashlight wanting access to shared files and emails for instance. Not impossible to do, but it's hard work finding good non-data mining apps on Google driven devices.

I'm also not down with the all or nothing approach. Many apps should work properly without certain permissions, but that's coming soon in Android M. I'm curious to see in what way they (Google) will implement this. More interesting for me even is how BlackBerry will work with permissions on the Venice.

The post referred to mentioned calendar and maybe email not flashlights (BB World has had it's share of shady apps mind you). Here is a thread that mentions several services that are not Google. Surely there are tons them. Yeah it takes a little work to decide.
http://forums.crackberry.com/general...rvice-1014239/

As for the app, they come already on the Android phone. Why anyone should trust Samsung, Moto or LG less than BlackBerry for the stock phone app, I do not know.

[ThaSwapMeetPimp]

Why anyone should trust Samsung, Moto or LG less than BlackBerry for the stock phone app, I do not know.

Do those companies data rape you? That might be it.....or maybe we just trust Canadians more than the people in those other companies countries of origin. And yeah I called it data rape. I don't see it as mining because so many innocent (read that : dumb) people just accept permissions and ToS without reading or thinking, and the companies know and count on that. Just because you can get a deficient to consent to letting you defile them, doesn't mean you should defile them. So yeah, data date rape. 'oh look at this shiny new app I am providing you just let me penetrate your cyber body, cmon baby it feels so good, you will see, just accept the permissions, just the tip baby, just the tip'

Stupid, sick bastards

Posted via CB10