03-26-15 10:27 AM
39 12
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  1. spork141's Avatar
    I don't know I just think If the kb isn't touch sensitive then this phone will face the same blackberry isn't innovative nonsense again. I think the passport keyboard was very well received by most reviewers so it would make sense to leverage that in a more standard phone package. A little of the flash of the product is missing without it in my opinion.

    Posted via CB10
    03-05-15 06:30 AM
  2. vpblaze's Avatar
    I think this new slider would benefit from a touch sensitive keyboard. Especially for how tall the phone will end up being when the keyboard is out.

    Instead of having to position your hand on the screen to scroll, you will be able to do it right from the keyboard. It is a great feature on the Passport. Hopefully they carry it over!

    Posted via the BlackBerry Passport. Follow me on Twitter @BlaisKL
    03-05-15 06:53 AM
  3. vladi's Avatar
    For once Slider can go with all four rows of keys because it would be quite awkward finger elevation to have some characters on screen. I just wish BlackBerry could improve on its keyboard somehow, I know its iconic but balancing is not right and there are many ghosts of the past such as dedicated speakerphone button which made sense on non-touchscreen devices back in the day. Im saying this because grip balance on the slider will be of utter most importance.

    On a subject of trackpad enabled keyboard I fully agree and support the idea. But make it one step further than Passport implementation. Passport keyboard can recognize only one touch instance which is quite limiting. Having the ability to pinch right on the keyboard or make custom swipe gesture would be an awesome feature, like C gesture straight from the homescreen to create new message or email.

    EDIT: Now that I have seen the keyboard in more detail its most likely a Q5 keyboard so there is a great chance it would not be touch responsive. Shame.
    03-05-15 07:45 AM
  4. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    Since it has no trackpad, all I'm asking is that it is touch enabled and emulates the mouse cursor like the trackpad does.
    tufcustomer likes this.
    03-05-15 08:14 AM
  5. nah.uhh's Avatar
    The passport keyboard doesn't compare to a trackpad..
    It works almost identically to it being an extension of the screen. Other than using gloves, I find no reason to scroll using the keyboard. Text selection is nowhere near as accurate as using a trackpad. It's far faster to get the cursor into the correct position by touching the screen vs using the touch keyboard.. trackpad (if don't right) is faster than both. Meaning shortcuts like shift scroll to select text, alt click to copy, shift click to paste etc

    I think the keyboard should remain touch sensitive, but text selection should be left up to the trackpad. The keyboard should be used for gestures, ie swipe to delete a word..
    Currently, with the touchkeyboard handling both text selection and keyboard gestures, they interfere with each other. For example, if you place the cursor behind a word you'd like to delete then swipe the keyboard, it won't delete the word, it will move the cursor. You have to first hide the cursor before you can use the gestures.

    I originally had high hopes for the touch keyboard's ability to replace the trackpad, but it doesn't come close.

    I want a trackpad on the slider, but I think they could put it UNDER the mechanism, ie it would only appear when the slide is open..
    Don't need it when in "all touch" mode.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.1.2480 | any questions? Feel free to shoot me a msg @ http://www.pin.bbm.com/C003EA0BE
    BionicKris likes this.
    03-05-15 08:55 AM
  6. spork141's Avatar
    The passport keyboard doesn't compare to a trackpad..
    It works almost identically to it being an extension of the screen. Other than using gloves, I find no reason to scroll using the keyboard. Text selection is nowhere near as accurate as using a trackpad. It's far faster to get the cursor into the correct position by touching the screen vs using the touch keyboard.. trackpad (if don't right) is faster than both. Meaning shortcuts like shift scroll to select text, alt click to copy, shift click to paste etc

    I think the keyboard should remain touch sensitive, but text selection should be left up to the trackpad. The keyboard should be used for gestures, ie swipe to delete a word..
    Currently, with the touchkeyboard handling both text selection and keyboard gestures, they interfere with each other. For example, if you place the cursor behind a word you'd like to delete then swipe the keyboard, it won't delete the word, it will move the cursor. You have to first hide the cursor before you can use the gestures.

    I originally had high hopes for the touch keyboard's ability to replace the trackpad, but it doesn't come close.

    I want a trackpad on the slider, but I think they could put it UNDER the mechanism, ie it would only appear when the slide is open..
    Don't need it when in "all touch" mode.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.1.2480 | any questions? Feel free to shoot me a msg @ http://www.pin.bbm.com/C003EA0BE
    Dude there's no trackpad. Just look at it. I'm not arguing that a touch kb is better than a trackpad I'm just saying since it doesn't have one we need the touch keyboard.

    Also don't forget that the touch keyboard is for more than text selection. Swiping up the letter suggestions for instance will be very difficult without it. Your thumbs won't reach the screen easy and the trackpad never helped with that. Scrolling web pages too.

    Posted via CB10
    03-05-15 09:26 AM
  7. nah.uhh's Avatar
    Dude there's no trackpad. Just look at it. I'm not arguing that a touch kb is better than a trackpad I'm just saying since it doesn't have one we need the touch keyboard.

    Also don't forget that the touch keyboard is for more than text selection. Swiping up the letter suggestions for instance will be very difficult without it. Your thumbs won't reach the screen easy and the trackpad never helped with that. Scrolling web pages too.

    Posted via CB10
    I looked at it, and to me it looks like the hardware isn't a working prototype. What's the problem? I'm the only one not allowed to add my 2c?

    Did you read my post? I said the keyboard SHOULD be touch enabled for the gestures.. I said it should have BOTH a trackpad and a touch kb.

    Scrolling web pages? Have you used a trackpad?
    You can ONLY scroll with the touch kb. The only advantage the touch kb has over the touchscreen is that you can use it with gloves. You can't actually navigate the web with the touch kb though, so the glove argument is out the window if you have to take them off to click a link.

    Navigating the web is easier with the toolbelt and kb + the touch screen than one or the other.. mobile/touch enabled websites don't need a trackpad, but desktop websites benefit heavily from one.

    Again, I think there should be a toolbelt under the slide

    "Thumbs won't reach the screen easily"
    Without a trackpad, have fun repositioning the phone or opening and closing it to click things near the top of the screen.


    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.1.2480 | any questions? Feel free to shoot me a msg @ http://www.pin.bbm.com/C003EA0BE
    03-05-15 10:15 AM
  8. spork141's Avatar
    I looked at it, and to me it looks like the hardware isn't a working prototype. What's the problem? I'm the only one not allowed to add my 2c?

    Did you read my post? I said the keyboard SHOULD be touch enabled for the gestures.. I said it should have BOTH a trackpad and a touch kb.

    Scrolling web pages? Have you used a trackpad?
    You can ONLY scroll with the touch kb. The only advantage the touch kb has over the touchscreen is that you can use it with gloves. You can't actually navigate the web with the touch kb though, so the glove argument is out the window if you have to take them off to click a link.

    Navigating the web is easier with the toolbelt and kb + the touch screen than one or the other.. mobile/touch enabled websites don't need a trackpad, but desktop websites benefit heavily from one.

    Again, I think there should be a toolbelt under the slide

    "Thumbs won't reach the screen easily"
    Without a trackpad, have fun repositioning the phone or opening and closing it to click things near the top of the screen.


    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.1.2480 | any questions? Feel free to shoot me a msg @ http://www.pin.bbm.com/C003EA0BE
    They aren't going to put both a trackpad and a touch keyboard just because the trackpad might be a small bit better. It doesn't warrant the time and effort to be that redundant. The trackpad being back is already a bit weird but at least it looks like it fits on the classic. I doubt it'll come back to a flagship. They see the touch keyboard as the high end solution and I assume that's what they will go with.

    Alternatively that strip below the screen could be multifunction and double as a trackpad . This would be similar to the palm pre. This was kind of shown in a BlackBerry patent for the slider. Maybe that would be better than the touch keyboard if it had some additional functions. Well see

    And yes I have a classic sitting at home. I am excited for the trackpad but I just don't see that exact implementation on the slider. I doubt it'll appear this late either.



    Posted via CB10
    03-05-15 10:58 AM
  9. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    The passport keyboard doesn't compare to a trackpad..
    It works almost identically to it being an extension of the screen. Other than using gloves, I find no reason to scroll using the keyboard. Text selection is nowhere near as accurate as using a trackpad. It's far faster to get the cursor into the correct position by touching the screen vs using the touch keyboard.. trackpad (if don't right) is faster than both. Meaning shortcuts like shift scroll to select text, alt click to copy, shift click to paste etc

    I think the keyboard should remain touch sensitive, but text selection should be left up to the trackpad. The keyboard should be used for gestures, ie swipe to delete a word..
    Currently, with the touchkeyboard handling both text selection and keyboard gestures, they interfere with each other. For example, if you place the cursor behind a word you'd like to delete then swipe the keyboard, it won't delete the word, it will move the cursor. You have to first hide the cursor before you can use the gestures.

    I originally had high hopes for the touch keyboard's ability to replace the trackpad, but it doesn't come close.

    I want a trackpad on the slider, but I think they could put it UNDER the mechanism, ie it would only appear when the slide is open..
    Don't need it when in "all touch" mode.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.1.2480 | any questions? Feel free to shoot me a msg @ BBM. Now on Android and iPhone.
    This is the only problem I see why a trackpad is needed:


    (sorry for the poorly drawn hand)

    As for the text selection, I'm sure that will improve as the precision of the keyboard increases in a second gen. Passport's KB is merely a first generation.

    Another alternative is an optical trackpoint, like on the Lenovo ThinkPad keyboards. Have a tiny optical-enabled point in between GHVB, and do all the navigation there when slide is open. Closed it operates like every other touchscreen phone.
    03-05-15 12:23 PM
  10. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    Your thumbs won't reach the screen easy and the trackpad never helped with that. Scrolling web pages too.
    Untrue. I use the trackpad exclusively when navigating pages, with the mouse cursor.
    03-05-15 12:25 PM
  11. spork141's Avatar
    Untrue. I use the trackpad exclusively when navigating pages, with the mouse cursor.
    By "that" I mean the word suggestions. Not scrolling.

    Posted via CB10
    03-05-15 01:47 PM
  12. RyanGermann's Avatar
    I find my passport keyboard to frustratingly slip into circle mode far too often. Perhaps that is a matter for tuning in software, but the Passport keyboard touch sensitivity means that what should be a single purpose device (a keyboard) bears the risk of turning into a trackpad when you don't want it to, and misbehaving as a trackpad when you want it to just be a trackpad.

    Any device that is expected to support alternative functionality in different contexts will get it wrong some of the time... like the misbehavior of the selection circle on a BB10 screen: sometimes it selects when you don't want it to, other times you touch to get a word selected and it just shows the circle insertion point like it is trying to aggravate you on purpose.

    I hear that on the Classic, there are contexts when the "call end" button does not end the current call (if you are on a call). THAT is an appalling unforgivable terrible design decision if it is true. The Passport keyboard is better on paper than in practice, and not as good as a keyboard-that-is-a-keyboard plus a toolbelt where the trackpad (and it's click button) have the specific function of moving the activation point around the screen and the click activates the highlighted / focused item to undertake whatever action.

    A four-row Classic keyboard with passport style touch sensitivity is a minimum for the slider, but the toolbelt would be better. A Q10 keyboard that is not touch sensitive and no toolbelt on the slider would be facepalmworthy.
    nah.uhh likes this.
    03-05-15 03:26 PM
  13. spork141's Avatar
    This is the only problem I see why a trackpad is needed:

    http://i.imgur.com/Y1Jcnk0h.jpg
    (sorry for the poorly drawn hand)

    As for the text selection, I'm sure that will improve as the precision of the keyboard increases in a second gen. Passport's KB is merely a first generation.

    Another alternative is an optical trackpoint, like on the Lenovo ThinkPad keyboards. Have a tiny optical-enabled point in between GHVB, and do all the navigation there when slide is open. Closed it operates like every other touchscreen phone.
    This is perfect. It looks great too. Exactly what I was saying.
    03-05-15 03:41 PM
  14. George Guirguis's Avatar
    For once Slider can go with all four rows of keys because it would be quite awkward finger elevation to have some characters on screen. I just wish BlackBerry could improve on its keyboard somehow, I know its iconic but balancing is not right and there are many ghosts of the past such as dedicated speakerphone button which made sense on non-touchscreen devices back in the day. Im saying this because grip balance on the slider will be of utter most importance.

    On a subject of trackpad enabled keyboard I fully agree and support the idea. But make it one step further than Passport implementation. Passport keyboard can recognize only one touch instance which is quite limiting. Having the ability to pinch right on the keyboard or make custom swipe gesture would be an awesome feature, like C gesture straight from the homescreen to create new message or email.

    EDIT: Now that I have seen the keyboard in more detail its most likely a Q5 keyboard so there is a great chance it would not be touch responsive. Shame.
    It's still an early build, it can change


    Posted via CB10
    03-06-15 11:50 AM
  15. RyanGermann's Avatar
    It's still an early build, it can change
    The more I look at it (including the briefness of the exposure, not even letting a single member of the press TOUCH it) I think it is a dummy unit of the type you would see on display at an electronics retailer... a sticker with a light behind it... which means it can more than "change", it hasn't really been built yet! :-)
    03-06-15 03:47 PM
  16. spork141's Avatar
    The more I look at it (including the briefness of the exposure, not even letting a single member of the press TOUCH it) I think it is a dummy unit of the type you would see on display at an electronics retailer... a sticker with a light behind it... which means it can more than "change", it hasn't really been built yet! :-)
    Don't think too hard. It's not. Slapping a barley functioning bb10 on a test decide would be very simple. Not worth the risk.

    Posted via CB10
    03-06-15 07:20 PM
  17. vgorous's Avatar
    IT WON'T BE.

    I don't see them making it touch sensitive keyboard. If you have to flick up on the keyboard to register word in, you'll be constantly hitting the bottom of the screen. You have to keep in mind the screen will be stacked on top of the keyboard.

    Try it. See for yourself...

    Take your Q10 and put your index finger horizontally across the keyboard, right where the "tool belt" would be. Now flick words up. See how awkward that would be?


    Source: I'm just smrt.

    But does it blend? Yes. Yes it does.
    03-06-15 08:41 PM
  18. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    IT WON'T BE.

    I don't see them making it touch sensitive keyboard. If you have to flick up on the keyboard to register word in, you'll be constantly hitting the bottom of the screen. You have to keep in mind the screen will be stacked on top of the keyboard.

    Try it. See for yourself...

    Take your Q10 and put your index finger horizontally across the keyboard, right where the "tool belt" would be. Now flick words up. See how awkward that would be?


    Source: I'm just smrt.

    But does it blend? Yes. Yes it does.
    OK, I have a Classic so I'm not 100% sure about the swiping gestures on the Passport, but as far as I understand, the two things you need to swipe up past the screen for is the Sym key and the predictive text if you want to use it like the Z10/Z30 touch keyboard? All the other gestures you don't need to swipe it past the top of the keyboard.

    For the symbols gesture it's certainly not needed since the Sym is an actual key, it's a 4-row keyboard. Only the navigation and scrolling features of the touch keyboard is needed for this case.
    03-06-15 09:51 PM
  19. spork141's Avatar
    IT WON'T BE.

    I don't see them making it touch sensitive keyboard. If you have to flick up on the keyboard to register word in, you'll be constantly hitting the bottom of the screen. You have to keep in mind the screen will be stacked on top of the keyboard.

    Try it. See for yourself...

    Take your Q10 and put your index finger horizontally across the keyboard, right where the "tool belt" would be. Now flick words up. See how awkward that would be?


    Source: I'm just smrt.

    But does it blend? Yes. Yes it does.
    Um.have you ever owned a slider? There would be a bezel or piece of plastic there. Your thumb would hit that, not the screen.

    Besides they did just what you said above for the passport and a few reviewers were annoyed that they kept hitting the screen. So actually yes blackberry would do that.

    Posted via CB10
    03-06-15 10:20 PM
  20. vgorous's Avatar
    Um.have you ever owned a slider? There would be a bezel or piece of plastic there. Your thumb would hit that, not the screen.

    Besides they did just what you said above for the passport and a few reviewers were annoyed that they kept hitting the screen. So actually yes blackberry would do that.

    Posted via CB10
    Thank you. You nailed it.

    I admit I made poor choice of wording there but you got the right idea of what I was trying to say.
    So the bezel would be like a barricade not allowing you to swiftly flick a word up. Get it?

    Edit: yes I have owned a slider in the past.

    Seriously try what I said. Lay your index finger across where the tool belt would normally be. Use your other hand to pretend to flick a word. See how there is that slight bump every time you flick a word.

    Posted via CB10
    03-07-15 09:41 AM
  21. nah.uhh's Avatar
    Thank you. You nailed it.


    Seriously try what I said. Lay your index finger across where the tool belt would normally be. Use your other hand to pretend to flick a word. See how there is that slight bump every time you flick a word.

    Posted via CB10
    I don't think this would be an issue if [in addition to a touch kb for gestures] they put the toolbelt [with a flat trackpad like the p9981] under the slide.
    I also think that the bottom edge of the top half if the phone should be slanted [and be a part of the bezel]

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.1.2480 | any questions? Feel free to shoot me a msg @ http://www.pin.bbm.com/C003EA0BE
    03-07-15 11:11 AM
  22. CTU2fan's Avatar
    Honestly I'd rather it just had a toolbelt like the Torch did. For a lot of the things you'd want a touch sensitive keyboard for (scrolling Web pages etc) you wouldn't even have the keyboard out anyway. If you've ever used a slider, did you have it open while doing anything other than typing? I know I didn't.

    Posted via CB10
    03-07-15 11:38 AM
  23. RyanGermann's Avatar
    The difference is that a track pad can also be a button with unambiguous contextual use: for example, when the cursor is over a link in a Web page and the pointer is a pointing finger, click the track pad to activate that link... but if you use the touch-sensitive keyboard, you move a pointer without changing focus so pressing enter acts on whatever on-screen object has focus, not what the mouse pointer is over.

    Should the space bar on a touch-sensitive keyboard be the equivalent of clicking the track pad in all contexts? No, because if a text box has focus, the space bar should insert a space, not change focus to whatever is under the mouse pointer.

    maybe if the touch sensitive keyboard had one more button that acts like a 'activate whatever is under the cursor' button, equivalent to a trackpad click, it could approach the usefulness of a trackpad... even if that was an on-screen button... that would be a 'no trackpad' compromise I could live with better than the current Passport keyboard usage paradigm.

    A device optimized for productivity needs to support the notion of "the current main thing" as well as "a secondary thing" or "the next thing". Most mobile device platforms only support "the current main thing" via touch. BlackBerry devices with the trackpad allow "the next thing" to be visible / chosen without changing what "the current thing" is, and that provides capabilities not possible with just a touchscreen, or a touch-sensitive keyboard that lacks a purpose-built 'activate the highlighted-but-not-yet-activated thing' button.
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 03-07-15 at 12:40 PM.
    03-07-15 12:24 PM
  24. vladi's Avatar
    IT WON'T BE.

    I don't see them making it touch sensitive keyboard. If you have to flick up on the keyboard to register word in, you'll be constantly hitting the bottom of the screen. You have to keep in mind the screen will be stacked on top of the keyboard.

    Try it. See for yourself...

    Take your Q10 and put your index finger horizontally across the keyboard, right where the "tool belt" would be. Now flick words up. See how awkward that would be?


    Source: I'm just smrt.

    But does it blend? Yes. Yes it does.
    If you used the Passport you would note that it only needs gentle flick. Slider will have all four rows keyboard so a flick would not be a problem if you go from bottom to top. But again I seriously doubt we will see touch enabled keypad.
    03-08-15 09:03 AM
  25. Rob Longmire's Avatar
    The gestures the passport has would work that much better on a four row keyboard like it looks like this phone has. I just hope the rumblings about switching the os is bull****, I love bb10 and don't want to get stuck with anything else on my new torch

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-15 05:49 PM
39 12

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