11-08-15 09:49 PM
48 12
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  1. GoLeafsGo44's Avatar
    $700 android phone. Seems odd.

    Posted via CB10
    It's not the only one, not sure what's odd. Not even the most expensive one.

    The Z30 is unbelievable!
    MO3iusONE likes this.
    11-03-15 07:50 AM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    The interesting part of that phrase is "all of which have agreed to help market the Priv."
    "Google didn't respond to requests for comment."

    Apparently Google's marketing team didn't know they are suppose to be helping BlackBerry....
    11-03-15 11:11 AM
  3. Pinot2015's Avatar
    $700 android phone. Seems odd.

    Posted via CB10
    Assuming just another Android Phone? Seems odd you can't see hardware and functionality difference.

    BlackBerry Priv!!
    MO3iusONE likes this.
    11-03-15 11:17 AM
  4. byex's Avatar
    Assuming just another Android Phone? Seems odd you can't see hardware and functionality difference.

    BlackBerry Priv!!
    Other than a physical keyboard I see no hardware difference than a $400 android phone running latest Marshmallow and not Lollipop.

    Posted via CB10
    11-03-15 07:48 PM
  5. byex's Avatar
    It's not the only one, not sure what's odd. Not even the most expensive one.

    The Z30 is unbelievable!
    Correct it's not the only one. It's one of the more expensive ones. But it may be the only one that doesn't deserve a $700 price tag for a slide out keyboard.

    Posted via CB10
    11-03-15 07:50 PM
  6. Pinot2015's Avatar
    Other than a physical keyboard I see no hardware difference than a $400 android phone running latest Marshmallow and not Lollipop.

    Posted via CB10
    Only looking for what you want. But hardware specs are top end, glass, and let's not forget the BlackBerry Experience Productivity Suite built into the OS. Did I forget the most secure Android phone by far!
    Show me any phone, Android or iPhone that offers all the specs and OS functionality that Priv does? (excluding fingerprint scanner). Can you?

    BlackBerry Priv!!
    MO3iusONE likes this.
    11-03-15 08:01 PM
  7. RyanGermann's Avatar
    It seems Chen isn't the one who wanted to kill BlackBerry 10 from Day one, it was Louis. Sounds like he setup the passport and classic to fail so that he could make his android phone and Chen finally gave in because what other choice did he have at that point?

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition
    How did he set up the passport and classic to fail?
    Was just about to ask the same...
    Can anyone put a finger on what Louks might have done for BB10 devices to NOT fail, if he was angling to go Android from day 1? Absence at launch events? He's the head of devices. Why put the BB10 sticker on the Slider unless he's scheming (if they had no intention of putting BB10 on the Slider, which is obvious in retrospect).

    I think the burden of proof should be on those who think that Louks DIDN'T set up BB10 to fail. As head of devices, doing nothing to ensure SUCCESS is causing failure. If the status of BB10 is any indication, the Passport and Classic did fail, and there is no evidence he did a single thing to prevent that from happening.

    Cue the chorus of "He's a VP at a multi-billion dollar publicly-traded company. of COURSE he was doing his job!" conjecture.
    11-03-15 08:27 PM
  8. 3yE's Avatar
    Can anyone put a finger on what Louks might have done for BB10 devices to NOT fail, if he was angling to go Android from day 1? Absence at launch events? He's the head of devices. Why put the BB10 sticker on the Slider unless he's scheming (if they had no intention of putting BB10 on the Slider, which is obvious in retrospect).

    I think the burden of proof should be on those who think that Louks DIDN'T set up BB10 to fail. As head of devices, doing nothing to ensure SUCCESS is causing failure. If the status of BB10 is any indication, the Passport and Classic did fail, and there is no evidence he did a single thing to prevent that from happening.

    Cue the chorus of "He's a VP at a multi-billion dollar publicly-traded company. of COURSE he was doing his job!" conjecture.
    Just because he was missing from some conferrences then you said he was too busy working on Android. Sorry I had to laugh.
    Maybe he actually was thinking abt Android powered device but saying all Passport and Classic were only pawns, without solid proof, is just silly.

    Posted via CB10
    MO3iusONE likes this.
    11-03-15 09:00 PM
  9. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Maybe he actually was thinking abt Android powered device but saying all Passport and Classic were only pawns, without solid proof, is just silly.
    Right on cue.
    11-04-15 03:25 AM
  10. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    I think the burden of proof should be on those who think that Louks DIDN'T set up BB10 to fail. As head of devices, doing nothing to ensure SUCCESS is causing failure. If the status of BB10 is any indication, the Passport and Classic did fail, and there is no evidence he did a single thing to prevent that from happening.
    Some brilliant character posted this a while back. The burden of proof is always on the person making the claim to establish that claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philos...urden_of_proof

    Evidence. It's a thing.
    11-04-15 10:13 AM
  11. RyanGermann's Avatar
    It seems Chen isn't the one who wanted to kill BlackBerry 10 from Day one, it was Louis. Sounds like he setup the passport and classic to fail so that he could make his android phone and Chen finally gave in because what other choice did he have at that point?

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition
    How did he set up the passport and classic to fail?
    Some brilliant character posted this a while back. The burden of proof is always on the person making the claim to establish that claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philos...urden_of_proof

    Evidence. It's a thing.
    The accusation is "neglect"

    The evidence is the sales of BB10 devices, with the handwavy "it's solely because of lack of apps" conjecture (i.e. that there was ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to make BB10 devices successful without apps, even as a niche player, 10 million device sales a year). Conjecture.

    If my landlord doesn't maintain the property and I suffer an injury because of this neglect, his LACK of action, PLUS the evidence of the effect of that lack of action (poorly maintained property) is my evidence.

    YOUR evidence will be "Louks did everything he could", or (in the face of millions of BB10 users that there aren't millions MORE that would have purchased BB10 devices) that every single possible BB10 device sale has been made, and there could be no more, and there could not be 10 million device sales per year under any circumstance. There IS no evidence that Louks took sufficient action to sustain BB10. There is plenty of evidence that he missed device launches and never spoke favourably in public of BB10. And the marketing. For pete's sake the MARKETING. For years CrackBerry members have been puzzled by the what even a layperson would call the inexplicable approach to BB10 device marketing.

    If you have some evidence to show that Louks DID do his best to sustain BB10, bring it. Of course, that evidence doesn't exist, because he didn't do much of anything, and the C|Net article just makes his pro-Android strategy clear. That's more evidence for my assertions, by the way.
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    11-04-15 10:48 AM
  12. cgk's Avatar
    If you have some evidence to show that Louks DID do his best to sustain BB10, bring it. Of course, that evidence doesn't exist, because he didn't do much of anything, and the C|Net article just makes his pro-Android strategy clear. That's more evidence for my assertions, by the way.
    I am curious - using that yardstick - where is the evidence that they are doing their best to launch the Priv - the search traffic for it is actually lower than the Passport.

    Forget tech sites and instagram - how would a normal person know the Priv is launching?

    And if the answer is - "well its the same approach as last time?"

    Is that actually evidence of preference for one or the other or just actually evidence of a pattern of poor planning regardless of OS
    RyanGermann likes this.
    11-04-15 11:02 AM
  13. RyanGermann's Avatar
    I am curious - using that yardstick - where is the evidence that they are doing their best to launch the Priv - the search traffic for it is actually lower than the Passport.

    - snip -

    Is that actually evidence of preference for one or the other or just actually evidence of a pattern of poor planning regardless of OS
    Well, it's still a bit early, isn't it? I've complained that "the launch was pathetic", but according to Marty Beard, the "launch" hasn't even happened yet, and there's "more to come", so I guess it's premature. When Marty and John and Ron are standing on chairs and high-five-ing and saying "that launch was PERFECT!" then we'll know. We all know cause and effect w.r.t. the Z30 launch: a FANTASTIC device when it was released, arguably STILL a fantastic device despite the "specs"... contrast the Z30 launch with the Priv launch and you'll get an idea of polar opposites in terms of 'enthusiasm' of the launch by the vendor.

    I'm curious about one thing, after the so-called launch and the device has (hopefully for BlackBerry) hit its stride in the marketplace: will they be able to determine, somehow, if the "app gap" really was the important factor. There's a lot of conjecture that the app gap was the ONLY significant factor that negatively affected handset sales, and Android was the answer to that problem. Many (myself included) don't see the app gap as the only significant factor or even the MOST significant factor.

    Suppose that they do sell 10 million Privs. If the "app gap" was the most important factor, I would expect 10 million downloads of:
    - snapchat
    - banking apps
    - alternative web browsers
    - games not available or playable on BB10

    If for example only 500,000 people download SnapChat or Instagram for Android onto Priv devices, doesn't the "app gap" rationale for going android kind-of fall apart? If we focus solely on high-profile apps otherwise unavailable on BB10 devices (excluding using Cobalt's workaround, sorry :-( ).

    It's not going to be a hugely informative metric, but it will be interesting to know that Priv users supposedly only staying away from BlackBerry solely because of the App Gap don't even download many apps, or don't download apps that weren't already available on BB10 or via Amazon app store... that would tell me the form factor (full 16 x 9 high res screen WITH BB PKB) is the main reason why they purchased the device, not for Android or Google Mobile Services in and of themselves.

    ...which begs the question: would a properly marketed BB10 version of the Slider have had almost equal appeal? Apps will tell...
    cgk likes this.
    11-04-15 11:11 AM
  14. cgk's Avatar
    The key factor will be if they can determine, somehow, if the "app gap" really was the important factor.

    Apps will tell...
    Well the App gap is why they wouldn't buy a BB10 device - it doesn't actually tell us anything about an android device because they all have those. All the presence of apps allow is for consumers to ignore that factor in selection - so it does become about hardware, price and awareness.
    Tre Lawrence likes this.
    11-04-15 11:14 AM
  15. chang69's Avatar
    Do you really think a CEO would want to setup the Passport and Classic to fail?

    Really!

    Open and insert

    PIN 2COF829A
    He is asking a question, not making a statement!



    Posted via CB10
    11-04-15 11:15 AM
  16. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    It seems Chen isn't the one who wanted to kill BlackBerry 10 from Day one, it was Louis [sic]. Sounds like he setup the passport and classic to fail so that he could make his android phone and Chen finally gave in because what other choice did he have at that point?

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition
    The accusation is "neglect"
    The accusation was not simply neglect. It was that Louks hatched an elaborate plan to kill BB10 in order to promote his android phone project, and the use of the words "sounds like" suggests that the evidence for those assertions is to be found in the CNET article.

    I see evidence in the CNET article that either Louks or a group of people at BlackBerry had hoped to create an android handset for some time ("Android, in our mind, was a longtime coming.") and that Louks convinced Chen that he could do so securely.

    I see evidence that Louks did not show up to press events and launches, one of which was immediately after he was hired, and another when he was ill.

    Is there anything else? Because that evidence does not prove a conspiracy to sink BB10 and leave Chen with no choice but to go forward with the android project. The evidence does fit the arc of the conspiracy story, but it doesn't prove all of it's elements.

    So the original claim is unproven, and the burden of proof remains with the people making it.
    11-04-15 06:18 PM
  17. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    There will always be folks who will think BB10 was sabotaged.

    As WP shows, a huge budget and marketing scheme doesn't guarantee success. If we're gonna be honest, it should have been clear to BBRY that BB10 was a losing hand fiscally not long after its debut.

    Developing a contingency plan makes sense.
    anon(8063781) and JeepBB like this.
    11-04-15 07:57 PM
  18. sorinv's Avatar
    So perhaps it was Louks and not Chen, but still I called it close enough:

    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe.../#post12027994


    When you stop leading with emotion and "what I want BlackBerry to do" it is clear this has been their plan for a couple of years.
    Yes. And 1M apps vs. 200,000 on BB10 + 300,000 on amazon + sideloading of Google play, does not really justify killing BB10 for lack of apps...

    We shall see if lack of success was due to lack of pre-installed Google playstore, or too much security and privacy for the masses, or the tarnished BlackBerry name.
    If the latter, Priv will just speed up the demise.
    11-04-15 10:04 PM
  19. sorinv's Avatar
    Can anyone put a finger on what Louks might have done for BB10 devices to NOT fail, if he was angling to go Android from day 1? Absence at launch events? He's the head of devices. Why put the BB10 sticker on the Slider unless he's scheming (if they had no intention of putting BB10 on the Slider, which is obvious in retrospect).

    I think the burden of proof should be on those who think that Louks DIDN'T set up BB10 to fail. As head of devices, doing nothing to ensure SUCCESS is causing failure. If the status of BB10 is any indication, the Passport and Classic did fail, and there is no evidence he did a single thing to prevent that from happening.

    Cue the chorus of "He's a VP at a multi-billion dollar publicly-traded company. of COURSE he was doing his job!" conjecture.
    ...And the fact that there were not enough Passports on launch which upset a lot of people.

    You could not order a Passport after the first day from ShopBlackBerry and there was no US carrier carrying it.

    Compare that with the situation now regarding the Priv which few want to order, most carriers are on board from day one and Louks has "been travelling for the past two years to promote it."

    How is that not promoting android and ignoring the Passport from the head of devices?

    How is that not sabotaging the Bb10 phones?

    All they want is to acquire software companies to grow their software customer base and they trade off their own customers to Google for a goal that has not been revealed yet.

    Phones are temporarily in the picture just to ensure the transition.
    ssbtech likes this.
    11-04-15 10:25 PM
  20. MO3iusONE's Avatar
    You guys are off your rocker.
    wincyUt likes this.
    11-04-15 11:59 PM
  21. Mr4aces's Avatar
    You guys are off your rocker.
    +1

    Posted via CB10
    11-05-15 05:25 AM
  22. Benjamin Black's Avatar
    The author of the CNET article made me draw the inference that the author believed Loucks wanted the classic and passport to fail, almost with spite, the author talks about how Louks skipped both the passport and classic launch events.

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition
    11-05-15 10:08 PM
  23. wincyUt's Avatar
    Great article OP. Thanks for sharing.
    11-08-15 09:49 PM
48 12

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