04-16-17 09:15 AM
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  1. Matt J's Avatar
    First off, I know it's just a phone. Dime a dozen. Commodity. Who really cares anyway? In the grand scheme of things, I don't really.

    However, there seem to be some signs lately that our beloved BlackBerry devices are being abandoned on a variety of levels.

    I was absolutely positive that the Priv would get Nougat, as would the DTEK 50 and 60. However, since these devices are BlackBerry, and not BlackBerry Mobile, I'm not so confident anymore. With BlackBerry shutting down their support forums, cancelling the BlackBerry Android OS Beta Zone and being so late with their monthly security updates (I still haven't received the April update), I think this is a sign of things to come.

    BlackBerry seems to be in the app business now with Hub+Services, DTEK, Hub, etc., that I think they're not going to go any further than releasing Google's stock Android OS with the BlackBerry app suite. Sure, there is the alleged kernel hardening and root-of-trust stuff, but since they're not really involved in the manufacturing process, I wonder how long that will exist itself.

    I do like the KEYone. It looks like a nice device and will launch with Nougat, I'm just disappointed that the Priv won't get the update, since I love the form factor.

    When I really think about it, does it make any real sense for BlackBerry to invest in all this Android security stuff? I mean, obviously the world doesn't really care with all the Samsung and LG devices out there. Why bother when the general population couldn't care less?

    Anyway, no big deal, but I really thought that BlackBerry was trying to make a go of securing Android and at least committing some resources to keep the legacy alive.
    Uzi, bb_bunny and AllanQuatermain like this.
    04-14-17 12:26 PM
  2. BB-JAM215's Avatar
    ... I was absolutely positive that the Priv would get Nougat, as would the DTEK 50 and 60. ...

    ... When I really think about it, does it make any real sense for BlackBerry to invest in all this Android security stuff? I mean, obviously the world doesn't really care with all the Samsung and LG devices out there. Why bother when the general population couldn't care less? ... .
    I wasn't expecting the PRIV to get Nougat, but at this point there's not much incentive for BlackBerry to do the work necessary to provide it for the DTEKs either.

    And, as I'm sure you know by now BlackBerry's sales teams are targeting enterprise and government customers, not consumers or "the general population". They are the ones who are actually concerned about security and willing to pay for it.
    04-14-17 12:40 PM
  3. Bla1ze's Avatar
    BlackBerry seems to be in the app business now with Hub+Services, DTEK, Hub, etc., that I think they're not going to go any further than releasing Google's stock Android OS with the BlackBerry app suite. Sure, there is the alleged kernel hardening and root-of-trust stuff, but since they're not really involved in the manufacturing process, I wonder how long that will exist itself.
    They have three partners counting on them continuing unless there's arrangements no one is aware of. As it stands and the public is aware of, BlackBerry still has to build out, sign and secure the core Android OS for TCL, BB Merah Putih and Optiemus Infracom Limited.
    zephyr613 likes this.
    04-14-17 12:42 PM
  4. krazyatom's Avatar
    I agree with you. BlackBerry is not the same company as we know. I wouldn't be surprised if priv, dtek don't receive nougat updates at all. Not sure what's going on with BlackBerry these days.
    04-14-17 12:49 PM
  5. Matt J's Avatar
    They have three partners counting on them continuing unless there's arrangements no one is aware of.
    But the real question is, "counting on them to do what?". If BlackBerry Mobile builds the device, loads up stock Android, slaps on BlackBerry's apps, the only thing left is this "kernel hardening" and "root-of-trust" stuff that is the so-called "secret sauce".

    I've always wondered what this "hardening" is.... and in fact, how difficult is it to do. If BlackBerry just turns that over to BlackBerry Mobile (TCL), then, well, I guess it is what it is.

    My question is, how important is this "hardening" anyway to the average consumer? Is it even worth the effort to do, especially since Nougat is more secure than Marshmallow anyway, with advanced security and privacy controls.

    I want BlackBerry to succeed, I just wonder what the value proposition is moving forward? The obvious differentiator is the physical keyboard, but we know that's a niche market now anyway (for better or worse).
    04-14-17 12:49 PM
  6. Drenegade's Avatar
    Would anyone actually be surprised? Abandoning projects is what they're best known for nowadays.

    Posted via CB10
    04-14-17 12:51 PM
  7. Matt J's Avatar
    Would anyone actually be surprised? Abandoning projects is what they're best known for nowadays.

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah, we've all been burned many times, but seem to come back for more! LOL! I remember going out and buying a second PlayBook (a 64 GB version), when I already paid full-price for the 16GB version, when I heard that BB10 was coming to the PlayBook. Only to find that it wasn't later after I spent my money (albeit a lot less than I paid for the 16GB version).

    Even when I bought my Passport, I thought for sure that it would eventually get the Android Lollipop runtime (although it was never advertised, so that one's on me!). It didn't take the Passport long to be EOLed and now it sits in my drawer pretty much useless, even though the hardware specs are still capable of doing so much more.

    Anyway, it just gets tiring of getting these "one off" devices with no successors. The Priv is EOLed pretty much. There will never be a Priv 2. The DTEK 50 and 60 are also the end of the series (most likely). Will there be a KEYtwo? Doubtful.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    04-14-17 12:59 PM
  8. Bla1ze's Avatar
    My question is, how important is this "hardening" anyway to the average consumer?
    Perceived value. I been saying for years no one cares about security until it's too late.
    andy957, mundo472, freeyo and 1 others like this.
    04-14-17 01:02 PM
  9. Matt J's Avatar
    Perceived value. I been saying for years no one cares about security until it's too late.
    Agreed. I just hope that what BlackBerry offers actually translates into sales, whether corporate or consumer. Right now my Priv is not as "secure" as the Google devices, since I don't have my April update.

    Sure, the likelihood of an exploit actually happening is close to zero, but doesn't Google actually have the claim to be the most secure Android smartphone out there right now? Not BlackBerry? Especially since they are running Nougat also?
    sidtek50 and xandros9 like this.
    04-14-17 01:07 PM
  10. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Agreed. I just hope that what BlackBerry offers actually translates into sales, whether corporate or consumer. Right now my Priv is not as "secure" as the Google devices, since I don't have my April update.

    Sure, the likelihood of an exploit actually happening is close to zero, but doesn't Google actually have the claim to be the most secure Android smartphone out there right now? Not BlackBerry? Especially since they are running Nougat also?
    If you want to break it down to something as black and white as that, sure. The DTEK50 is a close second, since it has the April update lol.
    FF22, freeyo and xandros9 like this.
    04-14-17 01:10 PM
  11. Matt J's Avatar
    If you want to break it down to something as black and white as that, sure. The DTEK50 is a close second, since it has the April update lol.
    LOL! This drives me nuts.
    FF22 likes this.
    04-14-17 01:11 PM
  12. Bla1ze's Avatar
    LOL! This drives me nuts.
    When it REALLY comes down to it and if the updates mean that much to you, then Android in general is not for you. Forget a BlackBerry vs. every other Android OEM perspective. You need to look at the platform as a whole, which just isn't built for timely updates across the board. That's something I think many folks don't consider cause they're too caught up in what they bought or what they want to buy.
    04-14-17 01:17 PM
  13. Matt J's Avatar
    When it REALLY comes down to it and if the updates mean that much to you, then Android in general is not for you. Forget a BlackBerry vs. every other Android OEM perspective. You need to look at the platform as a whole, which just isn't built for timely updates across the board.
    Yeah, you're right. But to be honest, I don't really care about the security aspects of the updates. I'm more interested in the usability of the Priv, and this comes from the BlackBerry app updates. So, I'm good even if Nougat doesn't come to the Priv. My main desire from Nougat comes from the new Doze feature that doesn't require 30 minutes to kick in. The split screen would have also been awesome on the Priv.
    04-14-17 01:20 PM
  14. krazyatom's Avatar
    Hardened security is great but for how long?
    04-14-17 01:21 PM
  15. Drenegade's Avatar
    When it REALLY comes down to it and if the updates mean that much to you, then Android in general is not for you. Forget a BlackBerry vs. every other Android OEM perspective. You need to look at the platform as a whole, which just isn't built for timely updates across the board. That's something I think many folks don't consider cause they're too caught up in what they bought or what they want to buy.
    But is it not reasonable to expect monthly updates when BlackBerry strongly promotes that as a selling point?

    Posted via CB10
    FF22 and AllanQuatermain like this.
    04-14-17 01:38 PM
  16. FF22's Avatar
    Yeah, we've all been burned many times, but seem to come back for more! LOL! I remember going out and buying a second PlayBook (a 64 GB version), when I already paid full-price for the 16GB version, when I heard that BB10 was coming to the PlayBook. Only to find that it wasn't later after I spent my money (albeit a lot less than I paid for the 16GB version).

    Even when I bought my Passport, I thought for sure that it would eventually get the Android Lollipop runtime (although it was never advertised, so that one's on me!). It didn't take the Passport long to be EOLed and now it sits in my drawer pretty much useless, even though the hardware specs are still capable of doing so much more.

    Anyway, it just gets tiring of getting these "one off" devices with no successors. The Priv is EOLed pretty much. There will never be a Priv 2. The DTEK 50 and 60 are also the end of the series (most likely). Will there be a KEYtwo? Doubtful.
    While I understand some of your frustration and don't necessarily trust BB to complete what they seemingly promise, I only highlighted one portion of your response.

    Does it really matter if there are follow on devices? I mean monthly (seems that way anyway) Samsung introduces new devices and goes from XXX7 to XXX8 to XXX9. How does that benefit you or the owner of XXX7? You still have an older device. If you want the newer one, they've tweaked some things but you still have to buy the new device and stick the old device in a drawer or sell it. I guess maybe you can get more for a Samsung on resale. And from what I've heard and read, Samsung has been no better or maybe worse on incremental updates to OS's. Since they are all Android devices, it is not as it jumping from Priv to some Samsung or HTC or xyz is as hard as from BB10 to bb-android.

    I think the one weakness of BB moving to Android introduced is that once I made the move to Android, I could probably move out of the BB-sphere to another device more easily. There's less reason to stick with BB. The same way I read folks moving from Samsung to the One-plus-something to the Pixel. It is easier to just move.

    I still expect BB to provide us with the security updates but like you, I've experienced the Playbook sell-out so will just wait and see. Then throw Verizon into the mix and WAITING is a team-sport!!!
    andy957 likes this.
    04-14-17 02:15 PM
  17. thurask's Avatar
    Perceived value. I been saying for years no one cares about security until it's too late.
    "My BlackBerry has superior security!" he scoffs, as he checks his Yahoo! mail over a password-less public hotspot.
    04-14-17 02:18 PM
  18. Bla1ze's Avatar
    But is it not reasonable to expect monthly updates when BlackBerry strongly promotes that as a selling point?

    Posted via CB10
    I never said it wasn't and the month of April isn't over. BlackBerry has never missed a full month of updates on their direct purchase devices that I'm aware of. And I as noted, that portion of my conversation wasn't with BlackBerry in mind, it was Android as a whole.
    Nathan Conley, mundo472 and freeyo like this.
    04-14-17 02:18 PM
  19. FF22's Avatar
    But is it not reasonable to expect monthly updates when BlackBerry strongly promotes that as a selling point?

    Posted via CB10
    Well, YES. Especially, when Chen says our Security is his mission.

    And it is what many of us complained about to the FCC when Verizon left us without updates for 3 or 4 months. So, even when BB was on the ball, my carrier could care less!
    Heavens1 and mundo472 like this.
    04-14-17 02:19 PM
  20. FF22's Avatar
    I never said it wasn't and the month of April isn't over. And I as noted, that portion of my conversation wasn't with BlackBerry in mind, it was Android as a whole.
    Communication from a Communication company would go a long way to salve some feelings. But that is not what anyone really expects from BB!
    anon(679606) and xandros9 like this.
    04-14-17 02:23 PM
  21. anon(679606)'s Avatar
    I think hardening is a moniker for heating & security is a watchword for sluggishness... I think the fiendishly miniscule customer base is fed up and this is the latter part of the end... before they flounder, I hope they license keyboard (capacitive included) so some more capable entity would offer a rootable android pkb device that offers sprightly but cool functionality...

    Oh yeah, I sure wish some hacker would finally hack the Passport so I could flash it and use it without risking facing the ire of the BlackBerry goons...
    04-14-17 02:51 PM
  22. sidtek50's Avatar
    "My BlackBerry has superior security!" he scoffs, as he checks his Yahoo! mail over a password-less public hotspot.
    Not a great example, yahoo would still be encrypting your password, but I see what you were getting at.

    Bottom line is this : BlackBerry has said it's a software company. Thurber has repeatedly said a phone without zero day patching is inferior. Well, I didn't get zero day patching on my dtek50s or on my priv.

    I'm mighty pee'd off. And this is coming from what some would say is a BlackBerry fanboy (kinda). But I'm absolutely not afraid to call blackberry out.

    Blackberry just keep shooting themselves in the foot. You can't put out statements like they do and not follow up on them.

    As another user posted, the nexus phones are technically the most secure because they have android 7.1.2 an April's patch level.

    My overarching point being : I'm a long time, loyal blackberry fan and I've had as much as I can take. I pay their asking price time after time and yet I keep getting stung by their embellishing sales pitch.

    Unless blackberry start communicating better with their customers and stick to promises of this zero day patching, I'll be buying a pixel over a KeyOne.
    AllanQuatermain likes this.
    04-14-17 03:46 PM
  23. BB-JAM215's Avatar
    Not a great example, yahoo would still be encrypting your password, but I see what you were getting at. ... .
    Unless that guy with the laptop over in the corner has good reason to be interested in your "private" communications (which you assume are secure) and is monitoring all the WiFi traffic going to and from your phone.
    04-14-17 04:14 PM
  24. gebco's Avatar
    Part of my deliberations when choosing my next phone will be the quickness of security updates. If BlackBerry falls down on this at that time, they're out of my list. And BlackBerry has been the only smartphone I've ever used.
    sidtek50 likes this.
    04-14-17 04:24 PM
  25. sidtek50's Avatar
    Unless that guy with the laptop over in the corner has good reason to be interested in your "private" communications (which you assume are secure) and is monitoring all the WiFi traffic going to and from your phone.
    Doesn't matter. Still encrypted unless you're talking about a rogue access point and fake site...
    04-14-17 05:05 PM
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