08-05-15 02:42 AM
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  1. evodevo69's Avatar
    Lol at the noobs saying Chen's device sales are worse than his predecessor's.

    BlackBerry released the Z10 and Q10 riding on an already declining public perception and shrinking user-base.

    Both devices got slammed by critics due to the incomplete 10.0 OS at the time, and of course the Q10 missing the tool-belt.

    The Z30 was a superior device at the time, much better than the 2 phones before it - but sold less.

    It's just been a downward trend that Chen has been controlling, but I wouldn't blame him for the poor sales of the Passport - which received tons and tons of hype and received great reviews by all the major youtube reviewers. Nor the Classic which is considered the best BlackBerry to date by critics for die-hards.

    Both the Passport and Classic are superior products to the Z10 and Q10 - they didn't sell because BlackBerry is dying and whatever momentum they had in 2013 is even less today.

    #qwerty #glassweave #darkhorse
    07-16-15 05:58 PM
  2. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    Lol at the noobs saying Chen's device sales are worse than his predecessor's.

    BlackBerry released the Z10 and Q10 riding on an already declining public perception and shrinking user-base.

    Both devices got slammed by critics due to the incomplete 10.0 OS at the time, and of course the Q10 missing the tool-belt.

    The Z30 was a superior device at the time, much better than the 2 phones before it - but sold less.

    It's just been a downward trend that Chen has been controlling, but I wouldn't blame him for the poor sales of the Passport - which received tons and tons of hype and received great reviews by all the major youtube reviewers. Nor the Classic which is considered the best BlackBerry to date by critics for die-hards.

    Both the Passport and Classic are superior products to the Z10 and Q10 - they didn't sell because BlackBerry is dying and whatever momentum they had in 2013 is even less today.

    #qwerty #glassweave #darkhorse
    Let's talk about the Passport and what a stupid, stupid choice it was. It’s 2014. BlackBerry was and is absolutely desperate for device sales. Its developers are forced to leave for other platforms due to low BB10 marketshare, which can only be improved by improved device sales. Revenues from device sales, key to BlackBerry's financial health, are falling at alarming rates. BlackBerry is only going to launch one flagship product all year. Will it be a flagship all-touch device, like every other top-selling smartphone manufacturer? Oh no, that would make way too much sense. Chen decides to go with the Passport, a phone with looks that only a mother could love.

    Man, were the PKB fans happy about that call. The Z50 fans abhorred it. It turns out that pretty much nobody wants a PKB phone. Well, any moron a who had seen PKBs disappear from the smartphone universe could’ve told you that. In fact, it was discussed repeatedly on this forum. But the PKB fans assured us that we were wrong about the viability of the PKB smartphone.

    “Shortcuts!” they said. “Better typing experience!”

    But nobody wanted the Passports. A flagship that doesn’t sell is not contributing enough to the goal, especially for a company in BlackBerry's position! Chen had the authority to make a different call. He didn’t.
    KR2013 and MarsupilamiX like this.
    07-17-15 12:39 AM
  3. John Vieira's Avatar
    I love my Passport.

    Here is the thing, it didn't matter what device the company released, they weren't going to sell because of the name on it.

    Now, I agree that it would have been a good idea to release a high end all tough alongside the Passport.

    However, what the Passport did, for better or worse was bring some attention back to the brand, which is what they need.

    If they go android, forget it, not buying another BlackBerry. But while BB10 is around, I'll stick with it.

    Work Wide and Prosper
    07-17-15 01:04 AM
  4. CFFrost's Avatar
    Yeah, why keep giving AT&T exclusives when they don't bother to advertise it. If AT&T is the only one offering to carry it, okay, but why not throw one at T-Mobile?
    Why is it important for the Americans where do certain phones get to be exclusive? Meanwhile in most of the world it's more feasible to get an unlocked one with a prepaid SIM

    Posted via CB10
    07-17-15 01:27 AM
  5. MO3iusONE's Avatar
    Let's talk about the Passport and what a stupid, stupid choice it was. It’s 2014. BlackBerry was and is absolutely desperate for device sales. Its developers are forced to leave for other platforms due to low BB10 marketshare, which can only be improved by improved device sales. Revenues from device sales, key to BlackBerry's financial health, are falling at alarming rates. BlackBerry is only going to launch one flagship product all year. Will it be a flagship all-touch device, like every other top-selling smartphone manufacturer? Oh no, that would make way too much sense. Chen decides to go with the Passport, a phone with looks that only a mother could love.

    Man, were the PKB fans happy about that call. The Z50 fans abhorred it. It turns out that pretty much nobody wants a PKB phone. Well, any moron a who had seen PKBs disappear from the smartphone universe could’ve told you that. In fact, it was discussed repeatedly on this forum. But the PKB fans assured us that we were wrong about the viability of the PKB smartphone.

    “Shortcuts!” they said. “Better typing experience!”

    But nobody wanted the Passports. A flagship that doesn’t sell is not contributing enough to the goal, especially for a company in BlackBerry's position! Chen had the authority to make a different call. He didn’t.
    You want my honest opinion? I liked the passport, I really did. It was the OS that I couldn't adjust to. Sure I could side load android apps but that drained the battery and caused my passport to freeze once or twice.

    It's the OS.. I know the bunch of you love your blackberry but people coming from iPhone or Android devices have a hard time giving blackberry a chance.. Well at least for me it was like this.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    07-17-15 01:56 AM
  6. cbvinh's Avatar
    Why is it important for the Americans where do certain phones get to be exclusive? Meanwhile in most of the world it's more feasible to get an unlocked one with a prepaid SIM
    I'd rather not have the phones be exclusive; that's why I want T-Mobile to get it too.

    In the U.S., it's common for carriers to offer phones at a "discount" and then make money on the service. It's one of the reasons why a $199 iPhone 6 is more appealing than a $599 Passport.
    07-17-15 02:44 AM
  7. CFFrost's Avatar
    I'd rather not have the phones be exclusive; that's why I want T-Mobile to get it too.

    In the U.S., it's common for carriers to offer phones at a "discount" and then make money on the service. It's one of the reasons why a $199 iPhone 6 is more appealing than a $599 Passport.
    Here in Romania for example if you want to get a Fruitphone 6 on contract you got to get €270 and run around for 2 years with a €41/mo contract for two years, while on retail it costs €800 but with a prepaid you can get decent stuff for about €10/mo (6GB internet, 600 national minutes and other 600 for EU/US/Canada), while on the 41 euro one you get only 6 more GB extra. In two years you pay in total €1254 on contract while on prepaid with unlocked phone €1040.

    Posted via CB10
    07-17-15 04:22 AM
  8. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    I love my Passport.

    Here is the thing, it didn't matter what device the company released, they weren't going to sell because of the name on it.

    Now, I agree that it would have been a good idea to release a high end all tough alongside the Passport.

    However, what the Passport did, for better or worse was bring some attention back to the brand, which is what they need.

    If they go android, forget it, not buying another BlackBerry. But while BB10 is around, I'll stick with it.

    Work Wide and Prosper
    In terms of “bringing some attention back to the brand,” there is not a single smartphone company in this intense competition for sales that can afford to use its only flagship phone of the year as a publicity stunt! The idea that no one would buy the Passport, but that it would be too ugly to ignore, would be Chen at his most worthless.

    The way to get noticed in this business is to (1) make a great phone that (2) people want and (3) sell millions of them. The Passport failed utterly at step (2). And, worst yet, it failed at the drawing board, which is why the mistake was so unforgivable.
    07-17-15 07:46 AM
  9. John Vieira's Avatar
    In terms of “bringing some attention back to the brand,” there is not a single smartphone company in this intense competition for sales that can afford to use its only flagship phone of the year as a publicity stunt! The idea that no one would buy the Passport, but that it would be too ugly to ignore, would be Chen at his most worthless.

    The way to get noticed in this business is to (1) make a great phone that (2) people want and (3) sell millions of them. The Passport failed utterly at step (2). And, worst yet, it failed at the drawing board, which is why the mistake was so unforgivable.
    Every single iPhone is a publicity stunt. Hell, every single flagship is a publicity stunt, it's a way to get your name out there. Companies don't make money on the flagships, they make them on the lower end devices. Again, except Apple.

    And of course the Passport wasn't going to sell millions, all the BB10 devices combined haven't sold millions.

    He was expecting to sell about 100k. They knew how niche and gimmicky it was. It actually sold more than their expectations.

    I don't know your hatred for the Passport. It's actually a great device. I have to admit, when I first saw the square screen, I was thinking that they were insane, but it kinda grew on me. I absolutely adore it.

    It's the most original and innovative thing in mobile in about 6 or 7 years.

    Don't be a hater.

    Work Wide and Prosper
    07-17-15 12:00 PM
  10. KR2013's Avatar
    ...It's the most original and innovative thing in mobile in about 6 or 7 years.
    Like this? :-)

    @evleaks: The Android-powered BlackBerry Venice slider infomation thread!-innovative.jpg
    07-17-15 02:52 PM
  11. John Vieira's Avatar
    Like this? :-)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yeah, you should use one!

    FML
    Mr4aces likes this.
    07-17-15 05:10 PM
  12. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    Every single iPhone is a publicity stunt. Hell, every single flagship is a publicity stunt, it's a way to get your name out there. Companies don't make money on the flagships, they make them on the lower end devices. Again, except Apple.

    And of course the Passport wasn't going to sell millions, all the BB10 devices combined haven't sold millions.

    He was expecting to sell about 100k. They knew how niche and gimmicky it was. It actually sold more than their expectations.

    I don't know your hatred for the Passport. It's actually a great device. I have to admit, when I first saw the square screen, I was thinking that they were insane, but it kinda grew on me. I absolutely adore it.

    It's the most original and innovative thing in mobile in about 6 or 7 years.

    Don't be a hater.

    Work Wide and Prosper
    I don't hate the Passport. I just find it so fugly.

    Sorry.

    Posted via C5303
    07-17-15 06:51 PM
  13. lnichols's Avatar
    Every single iPhone is a publicity stunt. Hell, every single flagship is a publicity stunt, it's a way to get your name out there. Companies don't make money on the flagships, they make them on the lower end devices. Again, except Apple.

    And of course the Passport wasn't going to sell millions, all the BB10 devices combined haven't sold millions.

    He was expecting to sell about 100k. They knew how niche and gimmicky it was. It actually sold more than their expectations.

    I don't know your hatred for the Passport. It's actually a great device. I have to admit, when I first saw the square screen, I was thinking that they were insane, but it kinda grew on me. I absolutely adore it.

    It's the most original and innovative thing in mobile in about 6 or 7 years.

    Don't be a hater.

    Work Wide and Prosper
    It doesn't sell. Yeah it got people to look, so does a streaker, but people aren't liking what they see. They don't want square screens no matter how big. It's like if Sony were try to make a run again at the TV market they once dominated and brought a 4:3 aspect ratio with a lot of pixels and trying to convince people that 16x9 TV's are just a fad. If the Q10, Q5, Passport and Classic sales numbers aren't proof enough of this for you fans of the devices and BlackBerry, then the hardware division is cooked.

    Posted via Z30
    MobileMadness002 likes this.
    07-17-15 08:00 PM
  14. KR2013's Avatar
    Yeah, you should use one!
    Like using a niche product? :-)
    07-17-15 08:01 PM
  15. tickerguy's Avatar
    It's the best and most-innovative mobile device I've ever owned.

    You'd have to pry it out of my cold, dead fingers if what you have on offer in trade is an iPhone or Galaxy.

    Posted via CB10
    07-17-15 08:11 PM
  16. John Vieira's Avatar
    It doesn't sell. Yeah it got people to look, so does a streaker, but people aren't liking what they see. They don't want square screens no matter how big. It's like if Sony were try to make a run again at the TV market they once dominated and brought a 4:3 aspect ratio with a lot of pixels and trying to convince people that 16x9 TV's are just a fad. If the Q10, Q5, Passport and Classic sales numbers aren't proof enough of this for you fans of the devices and BlackBerry, then the hardware division is cooked.

    Posted via Z30
    You're right. None of the pkb BB10 devices sold, and the Z series sold millions!

    Oh wait, no. They also didn't sell.

    It's not an issue with the devices, or the OS. Both of which have their issues, sure.

    It's the Blackberry name in the front.

    If the all touch series sold incredibly well, then I would agree. But they all sold like crap.

    FML
    07-17-15 08:15 PM
  17. lnichols's Avatar
    You're right. None of the pkb BB10 devices sold, and the Z series sold millions!

    Oh wait, no. They also didn't sell.

    It's not an issue with the devices, or the OS. Both of which have their issues, sure.

    It's the Blackberry name in the front.

    If the all touch series sold incredibly well, then I would agree. But they all sold like crap.

    FML
    Yeah they did sell millions. The first two quarters during and after the launch was 3 Million devices, all Z10, and all prior to any write down or discounting. I agree the name is garbage, but even if it said Samsung on the front of a Passport or Classic chassis, it wouldn't sell.

    Posted via Z30
    07-17-15 09:18 PM
  18. BlackberryFan777's Avatar
    Let's talk about the Passport and what a stupid, stupid choice it was. It’s 2014. BlackBerry was and is absolutely desperate for device sales. Its developers are forced to leave for other platforms due to low BB10 marketshare, which can only be improved by improved device sales. Revenues from device sales, key to BlackBerry's financial health, are falling at alarming rates. BlackBerry is only going to launch one flagship product all year. Will it be a flagship all-touch device, like every other top-selling smartphone manufacturer? Oh no, that would make way too much sense. Chen decides to go with the Passport, a phone with looks that only a mother could love.

    Man, were the PKB fans happy about that call. The Z50 fans abhorred it. It turns out that pretty much nobody wants a PKB phone. Well, any moron a who had seen PKBs disappear from the smartphone universe could’ve told you that. In fact, it was discussed repeatedly on this forum. But the PKB fans assured us that we were wrong about the viability of the PKB smartphone.

    “Shortcuts!” they said. “Better typing experience!”

    But nobody wanted the Passports. A flagship that doesn’t sell is not contributing enough to the goal, especially for a company in BlackBerry's position! Chen had the authority to make a different call. He didn’t.
    You might be right. But, I'm guessing that the Passport will move a couple million sales in the consumer/prosumer category of CB readers. That might still justify production. I'd argue that the flagship all-touch should have been released instead of The Classic for Christmas 2014. Chen has tried to argue that "enterprise" wants something that looks like an old BlackBerry, but a flagship all-touch might have been better. Who knows? I don't like Chen, but I think the PKB releases are about trying to find someway to differentiate, which is a good goal, but maybe he needs something beyond that PKB to achieve the goal.

    Posted via CB10
    07-17-15 09:18 PM
  19. evodevo69's Avatar
    Let's talk about the Passport and what a stupid, stupid choice it was. It’s 2014. BlackBerry was and is absolutely desperate for device sales. Its developers are forced to leave for other platforms due to low BB10 marketshare, which can only be improved by improved device sales. Revenues from device sales, key to BlackBerry's financial health, are falling at alarming rates. BlackBerry is only going to launch one flagship product all year. Will it be a flagship all-touch device, like every other top-selling smartphone manufacturer? Oh no, that would make way too much sense. Chen decides to go with the Passport, a phone with looks that only a mother could love.

    Man, were the PKB fans happy about that call. The Z50 fans abhorred it. It turns out that pretty much nobody wants a PKB phone. Well, any moron a who had seen PKBs disappear from the smartphone universe could’ve told you that. In fact, it was discussed repeatedly on this forum. But the PKB fans assured us that we were wrong about the viability of the PKB smartphone.

    “Shortcuts!” they said. “Better typing experience!”

    But nobody wanted the Passports. A flagship that doesn’t sell is not contributing enough to the goal, especially for a company in BlackBerry's position! Chen had the authority to make a different call. He didn’t.
    Not really - they were not and are still not in a position to compete with the other major players with an all-touch device.

    What the Passport did was generate enough buzz for people to actually review it and it was received very positively - that's what BlackBerry needed and they got it.

    Had they released on all touch flagship they would've been destroyed, b/c then it'd be compared with everyone else - and the app experience on BlackBerry still sucks despite the updated run-time. The camera sucks compared to the competition. The ecosystem sucks. The BlackBerry assistant sucks even with Maluba.

    The Passport got good reviews b/c of the pkb and the width, being differentiating factors from the rest.

    It's a slow and steady return to profitability and the Passport was a gusty move that turned out well - not for sales, but for planting seeds that will grow in the future.



    #qwerty #glassweave #darkhorse
    tinochiko likes this.
    07-17-15 11:25 PM
  20. cbvinh's Avatar
    Yeah they did sell millions. The first two quarters during and after the launch was 3 Million devices, all Z10, and all prior to any write down or discounting. I agree the name is garbage, but even if it said Samsung on the front of a Passport or Classic chassis, it wouldn't sell.
    Three million Z10's when all there was of BB10 were Z10's. It was when BlackBerry had a high point of customers, something like 70 million(?), most of whom were carrying keyboards and waiting for the next one, which was the Q10 that came months later, maybe even two quarters later.

    The Z10 didn't sell well and introducing another full touch slab would appease the current customers looking to upgrade, but its history doesn't foretell a full touch slab as the way for BlackBerry to regain traction.
    07-18-15 04:14 PM
  21. John Vieira's Avatar
    Three million Z10's when all there was of BB10 were Z10's. It was when BlackBerry had a high point of customers, something like 70 million(?), most of whom were carrying keyboards and waiting for the next one, which was the Q10 that came months later, maybe even two quarters later.

    The Z10 didn't sell well and introducing another full touch slab would appease the current customers looking to upgrade, but its history doesn't foretell a full touch slab as the way for BlackBerry to regain traction.
    That's right. At the time it was the only BB10 device, and there was actually some traction behind it, people were excited for BB10 and wanted to see the devices.

    And the Z10 is not a bad phone, but there are much better. It kind of took the wind out of their sails when the apps weren't there, the partners weren't living up to the expectations, and Blackberry flopped about for a bit, then immediately dropped the idea and got a new CEO and refocused on enterprise.

    Personally, I simply don't think they gave it enough time. Now, I know why they didn't, they couldn't afford to. But I think if they kept going, kept pushing developer relations, and tried to do SOME marketing, that they could have potentially been in a better position now.

    However, that's simply my opinion.

    FML
    KingOfQwerty likes this.
    07-18-15 04:22 PM
  22. cbvinh's Avatar
    That's right. At the time it was the only BB10 device, and there was actually some traction behind it, people were excited for BB10 and wanted to see the devices.

    And the Z10 is not a bad phone, but there are much better. It kind of took the wind out of their sails when the apps weren't there, the partners weren't living up to the expectations, and Blackberry flopped about for a bit, then immediately dropped the idea and got a new CEO and refocused on enterprise.

    Personally, I simply don't think they gave it enough time. Now, I know why they didn't, they couldn't afford to. But I think if they kept going, kept pushing developer relations, and tried to do SOME marketing, that they could have potentially been in a better position now.

    However, that's simply my opinion.

    FML
    I think their biggest mistake was, as you said, not giving it enough time *and then putting the company up for sale*. Installing a new CEO was necessary to save face after the for sale sign and new CEO's are always going to change up the playbook, which is the enterprise focus we have now.

    Developer relations should have focused on quality apps, not volume of apps. Or rather, they shouldn't have wasted money on tons of crappy Android apps and web page conversions. Apple and Android played the volume game. They should have differentiated themselves by providing great business/social apps.

    Marketing was terrible. The launch parties drew press attention, but there weren't places to actually see and buy the devices. The Superbowl commercial was terrible and was pointless, as no U.S. carriers had the devices yet.

    And yes, they couldn't afford to wait earlier because of the massive burn rate...
    07-18-15 04:37 PM
  23. lnichols's Avatar
    That's right. At the time it was the only BB10 device, and there was actually some traction behind it, people were excited for BB10 and wanted to see the devices.

    And the Z10 is not a bad phone, but there are much better. It kind of took the wind out of their sails when the apps weren't there, the partners weren't living up to the expectations, and Blackberry flopped about for a bit, then immediately dropped the idea and got a new CEO and refocused on enterprise.

    Personally, I simply don't think they gave it enough time. Now, I know why they didn't, they couldn't afford to. But I think if they kept going, kept pushing developer relations, and tried to do SOME marketing, that they could have potentially been in a better position now.

    However, that's simply my opinion.

    FML

    @evleaks: The Android-powered BlackBerry Venice slider infomation thread!-img_20150718_184414_edit.png

    Posted via Z30
    07-18-15 05:45 PM
  24. cbvinh's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Just as equally, there's fallacy in believing that the Z10 sold well and a new high-end full touch will solve BlackBerry's problems. You said it yourself, the high-end users have defected. Passport or full touch... same poor sales. The introduction of full touch to BlackBerry's line up brought demand for newer full touch. It's the same with the Passport. And will be the same with the Slider.
    07-18-15 05:57 PM
  25. John Vieira's Avatar
    I think their biggest mistake was, as you said, not giving it enough time *and then putting the company up for sale*. Installing a new CEO was necessary to save face after the for sale sign and new CEO's are always going to change up the playbook, which is the enterprise focus we have now.

    Developer relations should have focused on quality apps, not volume of apps. Or rather, they shouldn't have wasted money on tons of crappy Android apps and web page conversions. Apple and Android played the volume game. They should have differentiated themselves by providing great business/social apps.

    Marketing was terrible. The launch parties drew press attention, but there weren't places to actually see and buy the devices. The Superbowl commercial was terrible and was pointless, as no U.S. carriers had the devices yet.

    And yes, they couldn't afford to wait earlier because of the massive burn rate...
    Yes, that is also correct. The rumours of the company being sold or not killed a lot of sales, similarly I think the current Android rumours aren't good.

    Yeah, I agree. They should have focused on quality. That could have been a marketing point as well.

    "We don't have 100 million apps. We have 100 good ones."

    It's a fustercluck. I don't even know what they can do next. Maybe change the name in front of the phones?

    The enterprise focus isn't a bad idea now, because of what happened before. It might be their only out.

    It means the average user will have to just buy something else.

    I really believe the current line up is good. I think there is room for both pkb and full touch BlackBerry devices.

    1 touch low end, 1 pkb low end, 1 pkb and 1 vkb high end, and one crazy experiment device. Cycle them over the two - three year cycle, and it's not a horrible way to do things.

    But you can't expect millions of sales. No way.

    FML
    Larry Harper likes this.
    07-18-15 06:42 PM
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