10-21-15 12:34 PM
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  1. The Big Picture's Avatar
    If consumers start comparing the 2mp front camera is gonna stick out no matter what 2015 phone they compare the priv to.

    This is the worry. Front cameras are a big selling point for many.

    Imagine trying to take a selfie with your kids, baby, dog, cat.

    Posted via CB10
    10-19-15 12:55 AM
  2. midnightdoom's Avatar
    If consumers start comparing the 2mp front camera is gonna stick out no matter what 2015 phone they compare the priv to.

    This is the worry. Front cameras are a big selling point for many.

    Imagine trying to take a selfie with your kids, baby, dog, cat.

    Posted via CB10
    While I don't use the front camera a lot. It is mainly because the quality isn't great. I was really hoping they would go all out with at least 5mp. For reasons like this about and video chat too.. but trying to aim the camera to try and take a pic with the bf or even just solo with something in the background is not very fun nor artistic when you can't use the screen to help line it up properly and always guessing..

    Really I think people take the term Selfies out of context. It's not just about doing fish faces for Facebook, it more about having the screen as a guide, especially if there's nobody around to take a picture for you.

    But sadly since on BlackBerry website they made sure to point out the 18mp on the back but neglected to say the front makes me think it is 2mp

    *-* BBM Channel : Netflix Newsroom C003BA5E3 | facebook.com/NetflixNewsroom*-*
    MO3iusONE likes this.
    10-19-15 02:17 AM
  3. wincyUt's Avatar
    A few weeks ago a friend sent me a pic of her Strep throat (tonsillar area) for my comments/confirmation and it could have graced a medical textbook. Out of interest I attempted to pic my own throat on the Q10. It was rubbish despite multiple attempts (the pic, not my throat...). She has a Sam S6 edge (5MP).
    Maybe your throat is too narrow and not photogenic enough.
    anon4226395 likes this.
    10-19-15 08:51 AM
  4. wincyUt's Avatar
    In all seriousness, similar questions have crossed my mind, OP.
    10-19-15 08:52 AM
  5. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    Chrissakes, you guys STILL talking about this? Jeez.

    Who gives a pig's arse about the damn camera when there's a bigger issue at hand of it being overpriced by dropshippers?
    anon4226395 and MO3iusONE like this.
    10-19-15 08:54 AM
  6. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    I removed iPhone because you were talking about things relevant to Android and differences between them. Obviously iPhone doesn't account in that.

    No way to know why exactly LG and Huawei saw more sales. Is it right to automatically tie that to Samsung not offering an SD card reader in their devices? Probably not.

    Anyway, I have no stake in BlackBerry other than pure emotion. I've used BlackBerry devices long before BB10 existed and have used BB10 phones for over a year. I have a Z30. Just because I use an iPhone doesn't mean I don't want to see BlackBerry do well. You're right in that I don't want a Priv, but I also think BlackBerry should be giving it's all if this is truly its last effort in putting out hardware. Maybe one day you won't have to spend so much time defending a BlackBerry because it'll have the stuff the competition has, plus the things BlackBerry devices are traditionally known to have. That's my hope, anyway.
    ok... you say there's no way to tell exactly why LG and Huawei saw more sales, but in your view, it's a valid argument to say that the smaller battery or lack of SD-card didn't impact the sales of S6 or iphone...

    Don't you think Blackberry isn't giving it all? They abandoned their operative system that they invested so much to embrace android. They are going balls out with a dual curved screen, one-off sliding mechanism with a touch enabled keyboard, big battery, SD-card slot, suposedly good speakers.... Just because the front facing camera is top noch means that it's a "half atempt"? That's not reasonable to me.

    And I still have doubts if the camera isn't good because there wasn't enought space to acomodate a better front facing camera in the thin sliding screen. As we can see, the [good] rear camera takes a lot of space, the top of the screen doesn't seem to have much room to have a big module. That could be the cause.

    10-19-15 09:02 AM
  7. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    If consumers start comparing the 2mp front camera is gonna stick out no matter what 2015 phone they compare the priv to.

    This is the worry. Front cameras are a big selling point for many.

    Imagine trying to take a selfie with your kids, baby, dog, cat.

    Posted via CB10
    That will happen. But Consumers also complain about battery life, and the Priv has more of it compared to most high end phones.

    Only this last generation of phones have a good front facing camera, phones from 1 or 2 years ago had crap selfie cameras, people always took selfies with the rear camera. Sure front facing camera might be convenient for selfies, but surely isn't going to stop you from doing it. (in this case will force you to use the rear camera, wich will end up in better quality)

    Is it that hard to take selfies with the rear camera? People talk about the front facing camera like "...now I can't take good selfies with this phone"
    10-19-15 09:06 AM
  8. kbz1960's Avatar
    It is hard to take a picture when you can't see what's in the viewer.
    10-19-15 09:19 AM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    That will happen. But Consumers also complain about battery life, and the Priv has more of it compared to most high end phones.

    Only this last generation of phones have a good front facing camera, phones from 1 or 2 years ago had crap selfie cameras, people always took selfies with the rear camera. Sure front facing camera might be convenient for selfies, but surely isn't going to stop you from doing it. (in this case will force you to use the rear camera, wich will end up in better quality)

    Is it that hard to take selfies with the rear camera? People talk about the front facing camera like "...now I can't take good selfies with this phone"
    How do you know that?

    A big battery does not automatically equal longer battery life (Z10 and iPhones were same size... ). I haven't seen listed Talk-Times or Standby-Times, nor have I seen too many real world experiences using the PRIV for an extend period. I do think it is big enough to get you through the day, but I wouldn't count on it being a key performance factor. Cause with BBM alone there will be a big hit to performance, throw in several other BlackBerry Security bloatware features and I wouldn't count on the PRIV beating the other high end phones.

    I think as long as the 2MP camera can perform well it will be fine. If you want the PRIV... you'll buy it. But someone making comparisons will have dropped the PRIV from their list based on it's price, long before they got to the front facing camera.
    10-19-15 09:24 AM
  10. FlashFlare11's Avatar
    ok... you say there's no way to tell exactly why LG and Huawei saw more sales, but in your view, it's a valid argument to say that the smaller battery or lack of SD-card didn't impact the sales of S6 or iphone...

    Don't you think Blackberry isn't giving it all? They abandoned their operative system that they invested so much to embrace android. They are going balls out with a dual curved screen, one-off sliding mechanism with a touch enabled keyboard, big battery, SD-card slot, suposedly good speakers.... Just because the front facing camera is top noch means that it's a "half atempt"? That's not reasonable to me.

    And I still have doubts if the camera isn't good because there wasn't enought space to acomodate a better front facing camera in the thin sliding screen. As we can see, the [good] rear camera takes a lot of space, the top of the screen doesn't seem to have much room to have a big module. That could be the cause.

    http://images.techtimes.com/data/ima...-jpg.jpg?w=600
    I wonder if Samsung and Apple's market share actually shrank or the market just grew. Considering the regions where LG and Huawei typically see most of their sales, I'm willing think the market grew.

    Anyway, you're right, people who want a good selfie camera will look elsewhere. Too bad we had to have a "either or" case with this phone. Seems to always be the case with BlackBerry phones these days.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    10-19-15 09:24 AM
  11. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    It is hard to take a picture when you can't see what's in the viewer.
    I disagree... People have been doing it all the time. Taking selfies with the fron facing camera is something relatively new.
    10-19-15 09:25 AM
  12. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    How do you know that?

    A big battery does not automatically equal longer battery life (Z10 and iPhones were same size... ). I haven't seen listed Talk-Times or Standby-Times, nor have I seen too many real world experiences using the PRIV for an extend period. I do think it is big enough to get you through the day, but I wouldn't count on it being a key performance factor. Cause with BBM alone there will be a big hit to performance, throw in several other BlackBerry Security bloatware features and I wouldn't count on the PRIV beating the other high end phones.

    I think as long as the 2MP camera can perform well it will be fine. If you want the PRIV... you'll buy it. But someone making comparisons will have dropped the PRIV from their list based on it's price, long before they got to the front facing camera.
    Are you too going to compare it to different platforms? You have to compare it to Android competitors, where the consumption should be similar. Everybody knows Android is a Power Hog compared to iOS or BB10, wich as another great reason to have a big battery. Go to samsung forums and watch the battery complaints. Many people are sticking or even buying the S5 instead of the S6 because of the battery or SD-card slot.
    10-19-15 09:27 AM
  13. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    I wonder if Samsung and Apple's market share actually shrank or the market just grew. Considering the regions where LG and Huawei typically see most of their sales, I'm willing think the market grew.

    Anyway, you're right, people who want a good selfie camera will look elsewhere. Too bad we had to have a "either or" case with this phone. Seems to always be the case with BlackBerry phones these days.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    you have a "either or" with EVERY phone on the market... you talk like it's just this phone. People that want a Iris scanner will have to look elsewere. People that want a smaller phone will also have to look elsewere, people that want a fingerprint scanner will also have to look elswere... Every single smartphone on this planet, has features missing that can be dealbreakers for a specific consumer, it's not Blackberry fault on their own like you make it sound.
    10-19-15 09:30 AM
  14. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Are you too going to compare it to different platforms? You have to compare it to Android competitors, where the consumption should be similar. Everybody knows Android is a Power Hog compared to iOS or BB10, wich as another great reason to have a big battery. Go to samsung forums and watch the battery complaints. Many people are sticking or even buying the S5 instead of the S6 because of the battery or SD-card slot.
    No I don't... I'm a consumer looking for a phone. If your going to say your battery is better, it had better be better than ANYONES.

    But my concern isn't the battery size... it's the phones performance - which we don't know anything about yet. All we do know is that many OEM's are reducing their bloatware on top of stock Android, where it would seem that BlackBerry will have to increase it in other to secure and BlackBerrize the PRIV. If they did something I would consider foolish, like make BBM a required app... that would greatly affect performance based on what it does right now on Android.. So I wouldn't count on that 3410 mAh battery adding hours of usage over a Galaxy 6s Edges 3000 mAh battery.

    But as I said, I expect it will get most anyone through a full day of normal usage.

    We will have to wait and see if it means anything as far as bragging rights go.
    Blacklatino likes this.
    10-19-15 10:09 AM
  15. RLTurn77's Avatar
    I disagree... People have been doing it all the time. Taking selfies with the fron facing camera is something relatively new.
    You've been defending this device to no end in this thread and the spec thread and even called me out in the other thread regarding the front camera if I remember correctly.

    I've agreed with most you've said, but people take selfies with the front camera. This is nothing new, at least where I'm at. Hell, most of the pics from the cruise I was just on are from the front camera with pics of myself and friends. A few rear shots for taking "scenic" pictures, but my best friend with the S6 Active went as well and his front camera pictures blow mine away. We used NFC to transfer them all in full quality to my Passport. The ones I have are fine mostly, but if I had his front camera there's no way I'd downgrade after using it.

    But again... it comes back to what is more important to you. Battery life I wouldn't count too much on yet considering new BlackBerry apps running and Android. If it were BB10, the battery would be killer. My Passport is pretty damn good. I guess my point is that, while we pretty much agree, it seems like you are downplaying that releasing a high end flagship going into 2016 with a 2MP front camera is just not competitive (saying this nicely).

    For the record, I couldn't take pics of myself with friends back in the day when we just had rear cameras. They were always shaky or someone's face cropped out, etc. Guess I'm just disagreeing that you are saying the front camera use is something new. I think it's expected at this point in time.

    Posted via CB10
    Blacklatino likes this.
    10-19-15 10:20 AM
  16. MO3iusONE's Avatar
    You've been defending this device to no end in this thread and the spec thread and even called me out in the other thread regarding the front camera if I remember correctly.

    I've agreed with most you've said, but people take selfies with the front camera. This is nothing new, at least where I'm at. Hell, most of the pics from the cruise I was just on are from the front camera with pics of myself and friends. A few rear shots for taking "scenic" pictures, but my best friend with the S6 Active went as well and his front camera pictures blow mine away. We used NFC to transfer them all in full quality to my Passport. The ones I have are fine mostly, but if I had his front camera there's no way I'd downgrade after using it.

    But again... it comes back to what is more important to you. Battery life I wouldn't count too much on yet considering new BlackBerry apps running and Android. If it were BB10, the battery would be killer. My Passport is pretty damn good. I guess my point is that, while we pretty much agree, it seems like you are downplaying that releasing a high end flagship going into 2016 with a 2MP front camera is just not competitive (saying this nicely).

    For the record, I couldn't take pics of myself with friends back in the day when we just had rear cameras. They were always shaky or someone's face cropped out, etc. Guess I'm just disagreeing that you are saying the front camera use is something new. I think it's expected at this point in time.

    Posted via CB10
    I'm gonna have to agree with you.

    I use to use the front to facing camera all the time I older phones. My galaxy s3, nexus 4, etc.

    In ideal conditions, the front facing camera(even a 2mp) camera can look good.


    If I end up using the rear camera to fake a picture of myself normally I'll be in front of a mirror so I can see what I'm taking a picture of

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    10-19-15 10:25 AM
  17. Doggerz's Avatar
    This is confirmed? So many times I read it was 5MP.
    Then again whatever is on the Z30 front camera is good enough for my wife and I to use BBM Video.

    It's the young people who still give a crap how they look that I feel bad for.

    Then again, having a crap camera is good because you can always fall back on the camera is a POS. Implying you actually look better in person. Which probably isn't true either.

    Z30STA100-5 / 10.3.2.2789 / T-Mobile USA
    anon4226395 likes this.
    10-19-15 10:27 AM
  18. anon(679606)'s Avatar
    Motorola razr. Released 2004 had camera in the flip allowing selfies with flip closed showing view on external screen... it was great!!

    I disagree... People have been doing it all the time. Taking selfies with the fron facing camera is something relatively new.
    10-19-15 10:33 AM
  19. Uzi's Avatar
    10-19-15 10:35 AM
  20. RLTurn77's Avatar
    This is confirmed? So many times I read it was 5MP.
    Then again whatever is on the Z30 front camera is good enough for my wife and I to use BBM Video.

    It's the young people who still give a crap how they look that I feel bad for.

    Then again, having a crap camera is good because you can always fall back on the camera is a POS. Implying you actually look better in person. Which probably isn't true either.

    Z30STA100-5 / 10.3.2.2789 / T-Mobile USA
    Apparently someone used a sample picture to confirm it was 2MP and another asked Carphone Warehouse and was told the same. I think this is an added part of the huge disappointment here... the fact that it had been rumored for months to be 18/5 and then we were looking at a possible Sony 21 and 5 front.

    With the attention to the rear camera, I think a decent front camera was expected. Haha @ taking a bad photo of yourself and posting it somewhere... "don't worry, it's the camera, I look better in person" lol.

    Posted via CB10
    10-19-15 10:37 AM
  21. anon(679606)'s Avatar
    "The Priv runs a 1.8GHz dual core (+ 1.44GHz quad core) Qualcomm Snapdragon 808 SoC" from carphonewarehouse piece... wazzat?
    10-19-15 10:41 AM
  22. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    No I don't... I'm a consumer looking for a phone. If your going to say your battery is better, it had better be better than ANYONES.

    But my concern isn't the battery size... it's the phones performance - which we don't know anything about yet. All we do know is that many OEM's are reducing their bloatware on top of stock Android, where it would seem that BlackBerry will have to increase it in other to secure and BlackBerrize the PRIV. If they did something I would consider foolish, like make BBM a required app... that would greatly affect performance based on what it does right now on Android.. So I wouldn't count on that 3410 mAh battery adding hours of usage over a Galaxy 6s Edges 3000 mAh battery.

    But as I said, I expect it will get most anyone through a full day of normal usage.

    We will have to wait and see if it means anything as far as bragging rights go.
    Other than the blackberry suite and the security features, I honestly don't see that much bloatware on the Priv. Of course I don't know, I'm just speculating, but judging by GSMarena Endurance tests, devices with similar specs from the same generation tend to have battery life proportional to their battery. I still believe that it's the OS itself more than the bloatware than makes or break the battery.

    We will see when it comes out, but hope for the best. Surely I'm not expecting the battery life to be as good as the passport even if it has a more energy friendly OLED screen
    10-19-15 10:55 AM
  23. benbraun322's Avatar
    Like it doesn't make the phone a deal breaker. Nothing is perfect.

    My understanding is BlackBerry didn't "cheap out" but rather because they couldn't fit it in the small top half of the sliding assembly.

    Anything larger than a 2 megapixel camera wouldn't fit.

     BlackBerry Z30 Chenpion 
    10-19-15 11:15 AM
  24. TGR1's Avatar
    More critical than the resolution of a front sensor is the speed of focus, and the low-light sensitivity.

    Unlike the back sensor, the front camera does not have the luxury of a flash. Additionally, 'selfies' are generally pretty spontaneous and people want to take them quickly (because--you don't want to be 'that' loser for too long).

    Finally, most selfies are taken to be shared in social media context, where image sizes are pretty limited (even on a desktop, images on Facebook are only a small area of the overall layout--- and on mobile devices, layouts are even smaller).

    So... I would argue that the sensor resolution is less of a factor than its performance under those specific conditions, fast focus, blur/movement resilience, low light sensitivity.

    Posted via CB10
    Lack of front flash is why Apple turned the whole screen into a flash. They are very aware of how popular selfies and video chat are and that they are very frequently taken indoors, in poor lighting.

    One might be able to get away with a very good 2MP camera and excellent software but it still would get criticized. I can see one benefit. Selfies aside, I would think you would want the best for video chatting for business. Granted video quality suffers from lousy connections but it doesn't make sense to hobble yourself further. A low MP camera pushes a lot fewer pixels and that may help the overall experience.
    10-19-15 11:26 AM
  25. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    Is it that hard to take selfies with the rear camera?
    On touch screen phones, yes. When trying to take a pic with the rear camera it's difficult to hold the phone out and try to get your finger on the virtual shutter button when you can't see it.

    The market has gotten to a point where they realize the value of the FFC so manufacturers pack in more megapixels and better sensors, simulate a flash (iPhone flashes a brightened screen, LG has a lit frame around the viewer, etc), and Samsung has a wide selfie mode that can fit a group of people in the shot. That came in handy when I had my Note at a Royals game last year.



    Everyone got to be in the shot and not be the one stuck behind the camera taking the pic .

    Front facing cameras have been mainstream in Android phones since around 2010. I just took a look back at specs of my old Android devices. My first Android with a 2mp FFC was the HTC Amaze, released in 2011. No matter how you slice it, a 2mp FFC on a flagship device in 2015 (closer to 2016!) just doesn't cut it.
    10-19-15 11:29 AM
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