[dejanh]

I truly think that it is time for the BlackBerry community to wake up and realize what is happening out there, in the real world, outside of the distortion field of CrackBerry faithful. I personally am a big proponent of BlackBerry getting into the Android game. BlackBerry 10 was not a success, and as much as it is a fantastic OS, so was OS/2, Betamax, HD-DVD, etc., better in many ways than the competing technologies, but they all failed. Alas, this thread is not about the failings of BlackBerry 10, or the merits of Android. It is about the PRIV and what has been dominating the headlines - price.

Many here have argued that the price is not the issue, that the device is worth the money because it brings so much more to the table than the competing Android solutions and that those that complain about the price simply don't want to see the merits and recognize that the additional features justify the price. The other side rightfully argues that the Android market is saturated, and that the room for high-end, high-price device sales is comparatively small. This is easily reaffirmed by the fact that Samsung, the only remaining true premium Android device maker, is seeing declining top-end sales. Android is a commoditized OS, and commodities by their sheer nature suffer from downward price pressure. Hence the rise of premium featured phones at less-than-premium prices. Further to this, this same side argues that even if we ignore the realities of Android commoditization, the fact that the BlackBerry brand has no equity makes it impossible to price devices at a premium and expect any semblance of volume sales.

While there is merit to the arguments made by both sides (one cannot deny the technology and thought that appears to have gone into the making of the PRIV), one thing is true about the PRIV right now. The conversation is all about the price. This is bad because it takes the focus away from the true merits of the device, the added security, the fantastic keyboard, the BlackBerry Experience, and the fact that, heck, it is a BlackBerry running Android! An icon has entered the ring, but nobody can see it because everything and everyone is drowned out by a singular conversation about the price being too high.

It is this fact alone that speaks the truth, the truth that no matter which way you spin it or which side of the fence you sit on, BlackBerry got the price wrong. It is the only thing that anyone is talking about. Sadly, the worst enemy to the PRIV is BlackBerry itself, the commotion that they have created by pricing the PRIV in such a way that they caused it to be drowned out by its own existence.

Is the PRIV price too high? All market indicators seem to think so right now. Can that change? Can BlackBerry pull victory from the jaws of defeat? I certainly think so. We only need to look back to the launch of the first iPhone. Admitting that you made a mistake is the first step towards reconciliation, and I do hope that BlackBerry can see this before it is too late.

I'm sure that we are all hoping that it is not already too late.

[anon3230140]

Fingers are never equal.

For some that overpriced double barcardi in the club is normal. For others, they'd rather have a beer and sip that slowly all night.

The same applies to the phone. For me, I pre ordered it and think nothing of it. It's a brand I love, features and capabilities I want so it's priced just fine for me. Cheaper would have been a bonus so makes no material difference.

For others.. it's to expensive but that's their opinion.

No. I do not think it is expensive.

What I do think is too expensive despite the similar price range just because, in my opinion.. the iPhone has nothing I crave thus, its value to me is not in the same league as the Passport, Classic or Priv.

Posted via CB10

[howarmat]

Price is always going to play a factor in a device success or failure. I think there are tons of added value to the Priv but I think price is going to be more of a factor than all of that. Reviews will have to do a good job of pointing out the additional value and stay away from the "While BB did some great things, we can recommend 20 different devices with lower cost" line. Time will tell and it will be in the wild in a couple weeks.

[mithrazor]

I wouldn't say it's priced too high.

I wouldn't say it's cheap either.

It's launching at a price point which makes sense.

Us as consumers don't like it especially with Nexus' that are cheaper. But that's the cheapest it gets.

In comparison iPhones are more expensive. It's the same price as the Galaxy Note 5.

Posted via CB10

[anon(2313227)]

How much was the galaxy s6 edge + when it came out? Seems to be the best bar to compare it to.

[weezul]

It's expensive... but not too expensive for me. I will pay that money for the slider keyboard/android ecosystem. And if BB android is gone in two years time or more, whenever I feel like upgrading then so be it. Before I was worried that investing in this phone is a dead end because they won't make an upgrade and go software only. Well, if that's the case then I passed on an opportunity to have a keyboard android AND had no keyboard for another year or two. I'll use it until it physically breaks down. I went from Galaxy S3 to S5, and to be honest once the gimmicks wear out, there's not much left for android phones to do that I miss. They all take photos, answer calls, use app store apps, have NFC, bt etc. I got too frustrated with the fingerprint scanner (albeit its an old swipe one), What else is left that will make me envious of another phone? None of them have keyboards, but this one does and I miss it dearly. Sold.

[Doggerz]

It should honestly (for the good of BlackBerry) have been priced at $550 USD unlocked and then they wouldn't have to have slow sales and then lower the price. This would have gotten the phone into more people's hands instead of only the BlackBerry fans who would buy the phone if it was 2500.00 and still insist that wasn't too expensive.

Z30STA100-5 / 10.3.2.2789 / T-Mobile USA

[gvs1341]

Compared to what?

For the normal everyday, non geek folks having no clue about device settings/ app permissions/ data mining/ targeted ads etc. how much is the D-TEK app alone worth?

If it can't be rooted, how much is that worth?

Sd card support is worth how much?

Did BlackBerry find a million keyboards lying around in a landfill somewhere & that cost isn't supposed to be added to the final price?

******
These forums have really hit the bottom.

Don't you sour & dour folks have a life, family, work to pay attention to instead of whining about the price of a d@mn electronic device.

@MODS: Would you please, please, please merge all these dozens of price whining threads. Thanks


 Q5 / Z30

[dejanh]

Don't you sour & dour folks have a life, family, work to pay attention to instead of whining about the price of a d@mn electronic device.

Did you actually read what I wrote or are you just commenting on the title?

[World War Z30]

BlackBerry is doing what is has to do, so should you. Don't want to pay for it then have to look somewhere else.

I personally don't want to pay $1000 for a smartphone so I am not going to get it right yet.

Posted via BlackBerry Passport

[thecurryman]

I truly think that it is time for the BlackBerry community to wake up and realize what is happening out there, in the real world, outside of the distortion field of CrackBerry faithful. I personally am a big proponent of BlackBerry getting into the Android game. BlackBerry 10 was not a success, and as much as it is a fantastic OS, so was OS/2, Betamax, HD-DVD, etc., better in many ways than the competing technologies, but they all failed. Alas, this thread is not about the failings of BlackBerry 10, or the merits of Android. It is about the PRIV and what has been dominating the headlines - price.

Many here have argued that the price is not the issue, that the device is worth the money because it brings so much more to the table than the competing Android solutions and that those that complain about the price simply don't want to see the merits and recognize that the additional features justify the price. The other side rightfully argues that the Android market is saturated, and that the room for high-end, high-price device sales is comparatively small. This is easily reaffirmed by the fact that Samsung, the only remaining true premium Android device maker, is seeing declining top-end sales. Android is a commoditized OS, and commodities by their sheer nature suffer from downward price pressure. Hence the rise of premium featured phones at less-than-premium prices. Further to this, this same side argues that even if we ignore the realities of Android commoditization, the fact that the BlackBerry brand has no equity makes it impossible to price devices at a premium and expect any semblance of volume sales.

While there is merit to the arguments made by both sides (one cannot deny the technology and thought that appears to have gone into the making of the PRIV), one thing is true about the PRIV right now. The conversation is all about the price. This is bad because it takes the focus away from the true merits of the device, the added security, the fantastic keyboard, the BlackBerry Experience, and the fact that, heck, it is a BlackBerry running Android! An icon has entered the ring, but nobody can see it because everything and everyone is drowned out by a singular conversation about the price being too high.

It is this fact alone that speaks the truth, the truth that no matter which way you spin it or which side of the fence you sit on, BlackBerry got the price wrong. It is the only thing that anyone is talking about. Sadly, the worst enemy to the PRIV is BlackBerry itself, the commotion that they have created by pricing the PRIV in such a way that they caused it to be drowned out by its own existence.

Is the PRIV price too high? All market indicators seem to think so right now. Can that change? Can BlackBerry pull victory from the jaws of defeat? I certainly think so. We only need to look back to the launch of the first iPhone. Admitting that you made a mistake is the first step towards reconciliation, and I do hope that BlackBerry can see this before it is too late.

I'm sure that we are all hoping that it is not already too late.

Do you have any idea how people buy phones in most of the Western world? In the US which has one of the largest smartphone markets, 90% of people buy phones through the carrier. And on carriers the priv will cost the same. Or. Very very similar to the competition through finance plans which every carrier pushes. Also if carrier reps like the phone then they'll sell it.

No offence but you have posted all over the privs forum here and bashed. Clearly something like a physical keyboard is not a requirement for you so why do you bash so much on it.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[gvs1341]

Did you actually read what I wrote or are you just commenting on the title?

Hey, I did read what you wrote...

My post had three parts, have edited it to make it a bit clearer.

Only the questions were meant to be in reply to this thread, to get some folks to think about 'value' as against 'cost/ expensive'...

Second part is an obvious rant about all the numerous threads (including yours) about the price. Nothing particularly directed at you...

Third part is a request for the mods team...

Is it clearer now?

 Q5 / Z30

[cbzeduser]

No, I don't think the price is too high. An extra $200 is nothing for someone who is gainfully employed.

I think the keyboard, 2TB expandable storage, "edge" display, longer battery life and implied better security are premium features that people will pay for if the perceived value is there - . The problem is that Blackberry is not actively marketing the premium features and is losing the mindshare battle...

[Hlao-roo]

My question is with the price at $699, what is the profit margin on each phone for BlackBerry?

[crucial bbq]

It should honestly (for the good of BlackBerry) have been priced at $550 USD unlocked and then they wouldn't have to have slow sales and then lower the price. This would have gotten the phone into more people's hands instead of only the BlackBerry fans who would buy the phone if it was 2500.00 and still insist that wasn't too expensive.

Z30STA100-5 / 10.3.2.2789 / T-Mobile USA

If it were priced at $550 USD people would still talk about sitting around and waiting for it to drop to $450 USD before they buy. Period. And you know that is what would happen. It is easy to say more would be inclined to purchase the Priv if it were cheaper when the price is already what it is however to say that a lower a price would increase sales is only speculation at best and assuming that no one actually cares for what the Priv brings to the table at worst.

You know, with all of these discussions regarding price, one aspect is left out completely and another is continuously being swept under the rug and ignored.

For one, when you look at Android vendors nearly all of them have various lines that put their total number of offerings at an average of around 20 handsets. LG for example lists 203 phones on their website, but of course that number includes the various carriers and colors, too. But their line, like as with Samsung, HTC, and so on, ranges from the simple to the flagship and everything in between.

Even though Android became so popular because of the plethora of low-priced handsets with decent specs, the reason why flagship Androids are so "cheap" is because those flagships are also competing with their own line-up. Why would someone buy the S6 Edge when they can save $100 or more and just get the S6? Or why get the S6 if it is "too much phone" when all they need is the Galaxy Grand Prime or Core Prime and save even more? Steve Jobs understood this very well which is why there never was, nor ever will be, a budget MacBook Pro, iMac, Mac Pro, or even iPhone.

So the Priv is priced appropriately because it is not competing against anything of its own brand. Sure, some people will be turned off by the price but even more, and you know this too, will be turned off even more by the name "BlackBerry" no matter how cheap the phone is. But for those who want an Android BlackBerry this is their only option thus far.

The other thing is that this phone is not meant for the general market. The Priv has a very specific niche it is aiming for and guess what, it is not the average jane and joe. Why very few on here or even over at BGR, the Verge, etc. are not grasping this very simple idea is totally nuts. Sure, the average jane and joe can definitely pick up a Priv if they like, but those sales are not in Chen's needed 5M.

I suppose there is a third assumption; that there is a perceived larger audience for the Priv when in reality the audience in general is going to be small--at least initially--no matter what price point the phone comes in at. Keep in mind that BlackBerry still has to overcome the belief by the majority that it is dead before it can really begin to negotiate on price.

[crucial bbq]

Forgot to add to the above: the Priv's target audience are those who are most likely to run it through BES12.

Posted via CB10

[ivantoothache]

The price was average for an high-end smartphone. For once, forget the name "BlackBerry" on that phone and imagine its on the same store with other high end phones. Would you think the same that this particular device is way too overpriced? I think not. Now, you're buying an android device. Why care about BlackBerry's future so much? Just BUY it if you think you'll need it. And if you don't need it then choose another slab phone. But honestly I think every true BlackBerry supporter should get one. Because if BlackBerry leaves hardware, its us consumers who would lose. Nobodys trying to change and innovate lately except for who? BlackBerry. I would raise that I'll support them so that for my future kids to have a competitive products not just same rectangular slabs anywhere.

Posted via CB10

[conite]

We also don't know what the final price will be through the carriers.

In Canada, it appears the carriers will have it $100 CDN (about $75 USD) less then ShopBlackberry.

I think $699 is a fair price anyway. It allows for some targeted discounts and incentives.

PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2789

[Doggerz]

If it were priced at $550 USD people would still talk about sitting around and waiting for it to drop to $450 USD before they buy. Period. And you know that is what would happen. It is easy to say more would be inclined to purchase the Priv if it were cheaper when the price is already what it is however to say that a lower a price would increase sales is only speculation at best and assuming that no one actually cares for what the Priv brings to the table at worst.

You know, with all of these discussions regarding price, one aspect is left out completely and another is continuously being swept under the rug and ignored.

For one, when you look at Android vendors nearly all of them have various lines that put their total number of offerings at an average of around 20 handsets. LG for example lists 203 phones on their website, but of course that number includes the various carriers and colors, too. But their line, like as with Samsung, HTC, and so on, ranges from the simple to the flagship and everything in between.

Even though Android became so popular because of the plethora of low-priced handsets with decent specs, the reason why flagship Androids are so "cheap" is because those flagships are also competing with their own line-up. Why would someone buy the S6 Edge when they can save $100 or more and just get the S6? Or why get the S6 if it is "too much phone" when all they need is the Galaxy Grand Prime or Core Prime and save even more? Steve Jobs understood this very well which is why there never was, nor ever will be, a budget MacBook Pro, iMac, Mac Pro, or even iPhone.

So the Priv is priced appropriately because it is not competing against anything of its own brand. Sure, some people will be turned off by the price but even more, and you know this too, will be turned off even more by the name "BlackBerry" no matter how cheap the phone is. But for those who want an Android BlackBerry this is their only option thus far.

The other thing is that this phone is not meant for the general market. The Priv has a very specific niche it is aiming for and guess what, it is not the average jane and joe. Why very few on here or even over at BGR, the Verge, etc. are not grasping this very simple idea is totally nuts. Sure, the average jane and joe can definitely pick up a Priv if they like, but those sales are not in Chen's needed 5M.

I suppose there is a third assumption; that there is a perceived larger audience for the Priv when in reality the audience in general is going to be small--at least initially--no matter what price point the phone comes in at. Keep in mind that BlackBerry still has to overcome the belief by the majority that it is dead before it can really begin to negotiate on price.

I think you make some good points. All I have to draw on is my own experience. I got the 9810 at the opening price for 550.00. I was OK with that. Then I was so excited about the PlayBook that I got the 64gb version for well over 700 at the start. That one left a bad taste in my mouth. I also got the Z10 for a little over 600 at the very start.

That's 3 devices that I paid up for. By the time Z30 came out I finally had the good sense to wait 6-8 months and got the phone way cheaper. There are a lot of people here who are huge BlackBerry fans who say they're going to wait for a price drop. For me, if they started at $550 it would be a done deal. I'd have pre-ordered. As of right now I'm going to see one in person and wait long enough to see what is going on this time.

You're right that some people are always going to wait but this time, based on the public perception of BlackBerry and even based on BlackBerry loyalists who have been burned a time or two, this does seem genuinely overpriced.

I guess I'm thinking 550 would be a price that is still a lot for a lot of people but a value compared to Apple and Samsung. But I have no scientific proof of what I'm saying. Just remembering that the 9810 was a pretty sophisticated device and I felt ok paying 550. Don't think I'd have paid 599 or 699 for it. Maybe because I got my 8530 for 149 dollars in 2010.

I'm just thinking that 699 is genuinely high from a perspective of wanting to see BlackBerry appeal to the general public more so the company can come back in a big way. In other words I think they should shoot for the moon on sales and also spend like mad during the month of November advertising like crazy.

A stronger surge of sales at the start might really help. Especially with Chen saying that if it doesn't work out they're going to scrap handsets altogether and also the perception that BlackBerry is bankrupt or gone altogether, people may not want to pay the same as an Apple or a Samsung.

For me I have a lot of nostalgia for the slider. I will probably get one of these sooner or later because of that. Had this been a candy bar phone I'd be going to some other company. So I think Chen got the keyboard thing right. It's the only thing that really matters to the masses that sets them apart. Yeah the privacy is nice but so many people post every time they take a DUMP on Facebook that it doesn't seem to concern most of them.

Anyway, for what BlackBerry's goals are, I think you're probably right. But I genuinely feel the price is 150 dollars too high. Not because I'm cheap, just a sincere belief that this time more than ever pricing really matters to the success of this phone. All people are going to remember is the opening drive. By the time the price lowers, the specs will be low and the masses will be on to the next thing. I wanted them to capture the masses now.

Z30STA100-5 / 10.3.2.2789 / T-Mobile USA

[EvEr34]

Even though I pre-ordered mine I still think the price was a bit steep. I do think the price will without a doubt hinder it's success

[bluetroll]

I do think the price is high, but with Black Friday and Christmas coming soon, it allows them room for price promotions.

I'm going to wait for the Black Friday sale.

Posted via CB10

[TRMP87]

Just wait a few months and the price of the phone will come down. Job done!!!

Posted via CB10

[ssilva7]

I agree that the price is too high, but I am very optimistic that this is not just a "mistake" but rather, they know they can play this game with the consumers. I really don't think their target market is only enterprise users. 1 year to literally save the hardware division by selling 5 million devices to enterprises? Notoriously slow moving drowned-in-bureaucracy enterprises? Locked into corporate contracts spanning months/years? These entities are already comfortable with Android or iPhone, there's no turning back unless there is significant cost savings to be had in their budgets for a PRIV (spoiler: probably not happening at this price point). No, they want a slice of the consumer pie too, they can't depend on enterprise hopping on the train in the 1st year, especially when they casually threaten to leave in 1 year. They wouldn't put such a powerful camera on a device for enterprise users, or waste money on a gimmicky curved screen. I would say they're looking for people who live on their phones/probably BYOD in the workplace people. True work and play on one device.

You and I know the value of that physical keyboard. This is their true differentiator - the only thing on the spot that clearly separates them from all Android competition. It is instantly iconic and automatically identifiable. No one can touch them in that department. Forget security - other devices do this too AND enterprise is just so slow to adopt. Especially with BYOD policies growing in popularity, many corporations are very comfortable with the level of security available on phones like iPhone or thru Samsung Knox. We wouldn't be having this conversation if companies were that insecure about the security available on other platforms, they'd be on BB10. If you really wanted to get crazy security, you'd go for a more proven device in the field like the Blackphone or back to BB10. The PRIV hasn't proven itself yet, it needs time first.

A significant portion of the consumer market is confused as to why we would want a physical keyboard - not because they went from PKB to VKB - but really, because they never used one. If you look at the comments on /r/Android or on /r/Gadgets when those two PRIV hands on videos leaked out, so many comments are like, "Wow this is so different! How neat! But the guy types so slowly, how is that better than the VKB? I don't understand the appeal. I definitely type faster than THAT on a VKB, no wonder we don't use them anymore". This is a significant problem, and that's why I think the price should be lower. This product needs to be in people's hands. They need like a 1-month trial program, like the LG G4, where 2000 phones were distributed worldwide based on the # of Twitter/Facebook followers, and if you completed social media challenges, you'd get to keep the phone for free. They also had trucks giving out phones for free in major cities. Apple has their devices set up and working at any store where they're sold at for good reason. Chances of people seeking out the one token ultra expensive Android Blackberry device tucked into the corner of an AT&T though, especially with barely any marketing, while the store rep is pushing you to buy an iPhone or Samsung... pretty slim. Consumers used to buy Blackberries because of BIS, it would make their plans cheaper, the awesome keyboard was just an extra perk. Security is the only other thing enticing them right now and I strongly believe that it's just not going to pan out in the first year.

The price is too high and the incentives are too low for newcomers to the smartphone field to understand the power of the keyboard. The power of the sort of productivity that comes from the keyboard + hub combination. The keyboard is literally crack. You give out some crack at a discount at first to get your customer hooked, if you know you're the only dealer, you only stand to gain. You're relying on nostalgia from people who owned a smartphone 6 years ago and the 0.3% of the worldwide marketshare currently using a BlackBerry. At least with a lower price people would maybe shrug and try it for a few days. I even have trouble picking up a Blackberry right now because I do type slow with it at first vs Swype. But I know - from past experience only - that I can type super fast on it without looking once I get comfortable. If this was a slab, it would be pretty poor value and be DOA at this price.

There IS a solid market here for this keyboard/productivity/security combo, make no mistake. Samsung didn't panic release that ratchet clip on keyboard from the early 2000s in August because they thought it looked cool. It did them more harm than good, but at least BB can't say they're the only high end phone with a keyboard anymore. LG did not suddenly release the LG V10 (their "ultra premium" offering) with LG Gate security for enterprise this month because it *just* occurred to them that this would be a good idea, even though their much more promoted and marketed phone the LG G4, got left out. It sounds like that got bumped up to this release just to make sure they'd be included in the inevitable "Android + Security" conversation when BB released (and they succeeded). They are shook by Blackberry and they don't want them monopolizing any part of this niche market. They don't want another Android competitor in the field and this one comes with some pretty crazy patents and knows a little something about dominating the market, even if they've strayed from their roots.

The price is high for new customers and it may hurt them. I have NO DOUBT that it is their every intention to drop the price down. It wasn't a mistake that it showed up as $949CAD at first on ShopBB. It wasn't a magical $50 glitch lol. It dropped $50 to $899 CAD because of the immediate outrage. It will continue to go down, probably quite quickly. Then we can all stop ******** about the price. The LG V10 kills the Priv in most fields and it's still entering the US market on October 30th at $599, despite attempting to go in at $680 USD in Korea on October 10th. Look at how happy people are that Rogers (the Comcast of Canada) is selling it for $799 CAD - but $699 USD is $927 CAD. The price is all over the place and it probably hasn't been firm or consistent for good reason. They're testing us. I really believe that the early leaker who said it's $750 CAD was right, that's what they're gunning for, probably $599 USD. They're just seeing how high they can go first. If the price bugs you, wait. I promise it won't go higher.

[tomsobon]

I dont see a major issue with the price of the Priv. Certainly BlackBerry has lost its brand position over the years but hey, this is an extremely well designed device with top specs with a customized android os... AND A FANTASTIC PHYSICAL KEYBOARD!!!

With the right marketing, this device will sell, I can only imagine how many people MISS their keyboards, (remember everyone owned a BlakBerry before)

Going Android is the smartest thing to do at this stage, I believe it will pay off!

[tickerguy]

Give me a week with it at my favorite watering hole and a quarter of the people there will buy one.

I've sold a few Passports just using it there and that's with the app gap. Without it? Oh boy.

Posted via CB10